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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 117 Rating
Perfect 10 13 19.40%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 19 28.36%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 17.91%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 16.42%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 10.45%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 4.48%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.49%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.49%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-08-02, 23:05   Link #301
Ryus
The One Eyed King
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Yahoo!! It's becoming another Shieky/Ryus thread, it's been too long since we made one

Kinematics I think had a recent theory like that; that Raki would become a sort of guardian for these girls in helping them cope with what they are now, but positively; sort of like a surrogate teacher/older-brother sort of type.

Nonetheless, that's something I want to get an answer on once and for all; whether he's human or not still. I still feel he is, but you went through so much logical analyzing on his eyes and such, that I'd hate for you to be wrong :heh :
We should take over the image thread next

Nothing wrong with being wrong when there was no way to know what Yagi's intentions truly are, i wouldn't mind being wrong as long as Yagi does a good job explaining at least half of my concerns (still confused about Clarice's hair color change for 3 panels in ch 108... thinking it must have been either an error on Yagi's part, a printing problem, Yagi's with holding more plot from us, or every clearer on every scan site out there just blew it. ). Yes, I very much understand and respect your opinion that Raki should remain human so we still have a human to connect with and so the sex roles stay reversed (two amazing parts of the story thus far)... however I feel if he's human still then Isley trained him to be a bloody Jedi with force leap and Force Precognition since no regular human could block all those attacks. I fear it's past the point of wants and Yagi has clearly already commented to him being one or the other and we've just been withheld the final clear answer.

I think I skimmed over Kinematics's post on my lunch break, it appeared to be very good but I disagreed with a few conclusions and/or had questions on how he reached such a conclusion... forget which need to reread it (I recall though thinking it was a rep worthy post).
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Old 2011-08-02, 23:12   Link #302
Shiek927
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Oh I disagreed with his post largely as well, I was just making a point

And what's so impossible about being a "bloody Jedi"? -- It's no longer one or the other as you say, as time have changed since the old days of humans being utterly useless; now it's possible for a human being to actually kill a yoma for example. It's no longer far-fetched to think that Raki can be a prime human being with top-of-the-line sword-training.

....That said, even if the Rods left absolutely no trace in his body, Priscilla's yoki not doing the same....ehhh, too lucky if you ask me -- now that's far-fetched.

As you say, the answer is already known, but we just don't know it yet . I don't think we'll find out for awhile though since next chapter will probably be more of the battles outside with the new big three.
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Old 2011-08-02, 23:25   Link #303
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Oh I disagreed with his post largely as well, I was just making a point
I don't remember enough of it to say I disagreed with "most" of it. I just recall wondering how he reached his conclusions of upcoming events, since many had unstated reasons why and some I saw other possibilities... Of them I only recall thinking it odd why he said Miria would die then basing the rest of his opinion on it... and then the ghosts where split up for no apparent reason (maybe I'm remembering wrong...)

Though I get you where only making a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
And what's so impossible about being a "bloody Jedi"? --
Cause peace is a lie, there is only passion. Sadly for Raki he has too much passion for Clare, it will be his undoing if he's a Jedi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
It's no longer one or the other as you say, as time have changed since the old days of humans being utterly useless; now it's possible for a human being to actually kill a yoma for example. It's no longer far-fetched to think that Raki can be a prime human being with top-of-the-line sword-training.
Disagree, to a degree. One sure no problem, that's cannon... the two shrimp twin warriors whom can go AB... That's a bit beyond pushing it even if they where "going easy on him"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
....That said, even if the Rods left absolutely no trace in his body, Priscilla's yoki not doing the same....ehhh, too lucky if you ask me -- now that's far-fetched.
There is no death luck... there is the force yoki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
As you say, the answer is already known, but we just don't know it yet . I don't think we'll find out for awhile though since next chapter will probably be more of the battles outside with the new big three.
Yeah, I'm going to be like if Yagi plays it like a major twist and Raki is a hybrid or becoming one.
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Old 2011-08-02, 23:32   Link #304
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Cause peace is a lie, there is only passion.
You can make peace with yourself, by choosing your passions, their's always that

But you're right -- I don't see anything in the Sith handbook that doesn't allow marriage, fun or really anything that the Jedi forbid. No wonder Anakin went bad; they wouldn't let him sleep with Padme >_<

Quote:
Disagree, to a degree. One sure no problem, that's cannon... the two shrimp twin warriors whom can go AB... That's a bit beyond pushing it even if they where "going easy on him"
I can see that; the strength should have blown him away even if his swordsmanship could repel them -- good argument for the Pro-Hybrid side .

Unless they were too surprised by him to go all out .

Quote:
There is no luck... there is the force yoki.
Course their is; Isn't Raki's name sometimes trasnlated as Laki?....or Lucky?

Quote:
Yeah, I'm going to be like if Yagi plays it like a major twist and Raki is a hybrid or becoming one.
No you're not; not if next chapter is with Claire
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Old 2011-08-02, 23:57   Link #305
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
You can make peace with yourself, by choosing your passions, their's always that


So you're saying Raki is a Sith then... but he's not following the first rule first rule, thus dooming his efforts. "Peace is a lie"... and Raki seeks peace. Therefore all his efforts are doomed to be neutral at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
But you're right -- I don't see anything in the Sith handbook that doesn't allow marriage, fun or really anything that the Jedi forbid. No wonder Anakin went bad; they wouldn't let him sleep with Padme >_<


Actually, there no where in the Jedi code does it say no to marriage/love... it's just interpreted that way though out most of the Jedi orders history. Luke removes that rule when he reestablished the Jedi since he viewed it as both separating the Jedi from the people and since love can also be a saving force (there was more reasons... ignore my very quick sum up).

Though you're right no where in the Sith code does it forbade it either. However you might have missed my joke "Peace is a lie, there is only passion" is the first part of the code of the Sith and did so in responce to your comment about him being a Jedi. So I was teasing that his passion prevented him from being a Jedi... maybe I should have also used a line from the code of the Jedi too "There is no emotion, there is peace" since Raki clearly has strong emotions. (later I included the last line of the Jedi code).

So Raki maybe a force user but he is clearly no Jedi.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
I can see that; the strength should have blown him away even if his swordsmanship could repel them -- good argument for the Pro-Hybrid side .

Unless they were too surprised by him to go all out .
I didn't mean physical strength but whatever... I meant an AB or even a decent warrior blows away any yoma in combat ability, trying or not... and trained humans where only stated to be able to slay a yoma, not anything stronger (without getting very very lucky). The distance between Clarice and someone as low as Tabitha are worlds apart. Even going easy on Raki they couldn't be out preformed unless they threw the fight... and the twins where clearly too shocked to have been aiming to have thrown the fight. They tried and lost... they may have been aiming to KO and not kill, like Miria was, but any weaker and they just couldn't have been shocked as they where (especially time after time... you know the fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me saying)). There reaction times are simply so much greater than any yoma's and they where able to at least cause Miria frustration while aiming not to kill, so therefore Raki is greater than Clarice and Yoma by far. This puts Raki clearly at least in the gray zone of being too strong for a human if not totally in the red, baring later explanation by Yagi clarifying/adding something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Course their is; Isn't Raki's name sometimes trasnlated as Laki?....or Lucky?
This was me playing with the code of the Jedi... but lightning doesn't strike twice without reason... either Raki is being given the plot shield (Lightning striking twice) or since his name is also Lucky he can't be lucky too. So back to my joke/point there is no luck, there is yoki


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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
No you're not; not if next chapter is with Claire
CLARE!!!
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:16   Link #306
Shiek927
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So you're saying Raki is a Sith then... but he's not following the first rule first rule, thus dooming his efforts. "Peace is a lie"... and Raki seeks peace. Therefore all his efforts are doomed to be neutral at best.
Arrrrg, I need to research wookiepedia more carefully....

Quote:
Actually, there no where in the Jedi code does it say no to marriage/love... it's just interpreted that way though out most of the Jedi orders history. Luke removes that rule when he reestablished the Jedi since he viewed it as both separating the Jedi from the people and since love can also be a saving force (there was more reasons... ignore my very quick sum up).

Though you're right no where in the Sith code does it forbade it either. However you might have missed my joke "Peace is a lie, there is only passion" is the first part of the code of the Sith and did so in responce to your comment about him being a Jedi. So I was teasing that his passion prevented him from being a Jedi... maybe I should have also used a line from the code of the Jedi too "There is no emotion, there is peace" since Raki clearly has strong emotions. (later I included the last line of the Jedi code).

So Raki maybe a force user but he is clearly no Jedi.
Their is also nothing I heard that forbids intercourse, especially if it's for a moral reasons; Ki-Adi Mundi I think had a bunch of kids for such reasons. Their uptightness is probably what made the life of an old order Jed so unnecessarily hard and boring.

Luke made the Jedi more liberal in a sense -- everything was much more stringent in the Old Order. The Jedi and Sith were both on opposite ends, but he sort of brought the Jedi in the middle with his more practical decisions. If I lived before the NJO, I'd probably join the Sith, but afterwards, I'd probably join the Jedi.

Quote:
I didn't mean physical strength but whatever... I meant an AB or even a decent warrior blows away any yoma in combat ability, trying or not... and trained humans where only stated to be able to slay a yoma, not anything stronger (without getting very very lucky). The distance between Clarice and someone as low as Tabitha are worlds apart. Even going easy on Raki they couldn't be out preformed unless they threw the fight... and the twins where clearly too shocked to have been aiming to have thrown the fight. They tried and lost... they may have been aiming to KO and not kill, like Miria was, but any weaker and they just couldn't have been shocked as they where. There reaction times are simply so much greater than any yoma's and they where able to at least cause Miria frustration while aiming not to kill, so therefore Raki is greater than Clarice and Yoma by far.
Well not just strength, but you got what I meant; unfortunately, with something like this, it's difficult to tell without getting a glimpse into their minds or seeing this animated. We need more information to tell how the fight played out for all three of them.

Because, with the right explanation, it's gonna seem like perfect sense why Raki is or isn't still human.

Poor poor Clarice; at least he can protect her so he's moving up, even if he's a long way from Claire .

Quote:
This was me playing with the code of the Jedi... but lightning doesn't strike twice without reason... either Raki is being given the plot shield or since his name is also Lucky he can't be lucky too.
Frankly, if we're looking at it like that, lucky doesn't begin to describe how he's still alive -- Han Solo must be been sharing his legendary "Solo luck"; that's what he gets for hanging with scoundrels like Isley

Quote:
CLARE!!!
And Prissy!!!!!

(....what? I'm the only one? -____-)
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Old 2011-08-03, 00:45   Link #307
Ryus
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Spoiler for Off topic:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Well not just strength, but you got what I meant; unfortunately, with something like this, it's difficult to tell without getting a glimpse into their minds or seeing this animated. We need more information to tell how the fight played out for all three of them.

Because, with the right explanation, it's gonna seem like perfect sense why Raki is or isn't still human.

Poor poor Clarice; at least he can protect her so he's moving up, even if he's a long way from Claire .
While I don't disagree that we just don't know, I still believe he has or is turning.

Maybe after the next time jump she'll be far removed from the bottom ranked position.
Spoiler for Off topic:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
And Prissy!!!!!

(....what? I'm the only one? -____-)
No... I meet someone on NF whom loves her too.
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Old 2011-08-03, 01:07   Link #308
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Spoiler for off topic stuff:


Quote:
While I don't disagree that we just don't know, I still believe he has or is turning.

Maybe after the next time jump she'll be far removed from the bottom ranked position.
If he does actually end up protecting her by being superior, it would only open the doors for romance ("Is he going to be my new Papa, Mama?" )

Though depending on how strong he becomes, I imagine every warrior would start crushing on him....even without strength, he is still the only attractive male after all, or at least the onl one without three eyes or something.

Poor Claire; she says she doesn't need him, and he goes to stay with dozens of trainees and a pair of twins......twins!!!

=====

We are both going to sleep (no, not like that), you may now resume your Teresa vs Priscilla conversations
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Old 2011-08-03, 01:12   Link #309
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
I don't even understand how this debate even started -- it's nonsensical. If a warrior's raw power didn't increase through training, then they wouldn't become stronger AB's like Riful said -- it wouldn't make sense if, overtime, the only thing that increases is experience and swordsmanship.
It's not nonsensical. Riful has met half-awakened Claymores for the first time so she couldn't have known they would become stronger ABs. She's not a reliable observer unless Yagi made a real blunder and gave her knowledge she couldn't have. In order to make a statement like that Riful would have to awaken someone, measure it's power, de-awaken it, train it and then measure it's powers again and compare the two which we know she didn't do. There still is no proof that it matters when you awaken and that you can become a stronger awakened, the only information we have is that you can become a stronger Claymore but that's precisely because of having more access to youma powers, not that it suddenly multiplies or increases in other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stream View Post
English: The youki release for the first time after seven years has been raised to youki that seems even in normal times as if always near the limit.
VS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gernot's translation
七年ぶりの妖力解放は
My first youriki release in seven years
(Having released my youriki for the first time in seven years)

平常時でも常に限界付近まで妖気を高めているかのようでな
seems to be constantly increasing my youki almost to the limit even during normal times
It seems he's revised it since in the first version there was no "constantly" word.

These mean almost exact same thing, with gernot being a slightly better version since it makes it explicit that what Deneve meant was that she has more access to her power (as if she was near the limit). What makes it definite is that Deneve uses "even during normal times" which implies that once she stopped releasing youki and regenerate she felt the same thing as during the release, but she wasn't suddenly super strong during the release. She would have to be if her youki would increase and during normal times she would be as strong as 7 years ago during over the limit release. Both Helen and Deneve would certainly notice it but they didn't. She only commented she is almost as strong as if she were releasing her youki to the limit. I think you forget here that Deneve went over the limit a while earlier and they both fought with their youki released so H&D would easily notice if the youki was stronger than before. But it wasn't.

Quote:
(...) How do you explain the leaps of youki Helen and Deneve seem to have made while Rafaela's youki stayed roughly constant if not through training?
There are no leaps of youki that we know of. We know that thanks to HA (half-awakening) they have more access to their powers only. There was no detectable change in their youki signatures (at least not by conventional ways) and if anything changed was their youki quality, i.e. how well they can use it. And Deneve can use it perfectly now, so well in fact she doesn't need to go over the limit any more. But her youki did not increase.

And we have proof in the manga that HA doesn't increase youki.
  • After Clare's first HA male AB could easily tell she has very low youki, as well as Galatea from a long distance.
  • Later, when she meets Ophelia for the first time she's also called a weakling.
  • Then Clare awakens again and Ophelia (who has very good sensing skills) doesn't see any changes.
  • Later awakened Ophelia comments that she got stronger because of Irene's arm.
  • Later Riful has recognized Clare as someone with really weak youma energy (and thought she was a low number not even worth awakening) and that was after Clare got a power boost thanks to Irene's arm (so her youki signature must have been stronger than before but it was still weak). She changed her opinion a bit after noticing that Clare has released all of her youma power into her arm and not awakened but it had nothing to do with youki getting stronger but with using ALL youki.
  • But the best judge (or the second best except Clare) of no youki increase is Galatea. She has sensed Clare's youki in Slasher's arc and she has sensed it after 2 HAs and saw no change in youki increase (she said: "low rankers like you", i.e. weak warriors such as yourself).
  • In Pieta the only change Miria has noticed in her was the arm.
  • And turtle AB commented that only her arm is on a different level.
  • A while later turtle AB made them go over the limit again and he noticed no change whatsoever even though he was maybe even a better sensor than Galatea (also none of the other members of the team noticed any change).
  • After this fight, when Flora was judging her power both Clare and Flora commented how weak she was if she didn't use her QS. "What you showed me in the battle against the awakened beings wasn't something petty like this." And Clare responded "Sorry I have to disappoint you but this is my real power. (...) The power I used in the battle against the AB was merely borrowed".
  • Clare herself who has exceptionally well developed sensing skills hasn't commented her youki has increased and knew she was weak.
  • Rigulad did the same and called Clare a weakling.

In fact every person that met Clare commented how weak she was, even though she has Teresa inside. Which only tells us that there was no change in youki emission but the changes were internal and she had more and more access to Teresa's power with each HA and with training. The same thing goes to Deneve, Miria and Helen although in their cases we didn't have so many chances to see it. But none of them has commented their youki increased and the only thing we have are Deneve's words which mean she has more access to her youma powers.
As for Rafaela, we don't know whether she got stronger or not. She might have gotten stronger but she certainly didn't have such power boost as Miria whose power increase (but only as a Claymore) can be explained by HA and having more access to her hidden powers. That's it.
Quote:
Then explain to me how Miria developed a youki-free mirage or how Clare mastered the Windcutter which required her arm to be leagues above where it was before the timeskip.
As for Miria, she could do her mirage without (visibly) releasing more than 10% of her youki earlier but only after the time-skip she learned to do it by not releasing it at all (releasing not using). But it was possible thanks to getting more access to her powers and being more compatible with youma material plus some basic strength increase not because her youki has increased. At least we can't tell it yet. If what you say would be true there would be no way of explaining why Claymores could lift a Claymore as easily as earlier in a cloaked mode. They're not using they're youki after all, right? Well, they are using it but internally and that's a huge difference. Training and HAs help Claymores to have access to it and use it internally and the master of it is Clare. She must have humongous youki inside her but she needs even more time than others to access it because of being 1/4th youma.
As for WC, Clare was using Irene's arm for that plus she's special (she HA the most times and is a prodigy) so there is no problem here.
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Old 2011-08-03, 02:02   Link #310
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Good post Gooral I agree with you.
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Old 2011-08-03, 02:42   Link #311
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Getting ready to make my trip, so I'll throw in my last 2 cents.

Gooral, you ignored the when Priscilla commented on Clare and Miria's strength 7 years ago (after Clare defeated Rigaldo) and she clearly calls them both strong, putting Clare's Yoki on par with Miria's at that time.
Keep in mind that Clare did have a weak Yoki, even after half-awakening so many times, up until that incident. We haven't seen anyone refer to her as weak since then, in fact, we have had two people call her strong.

Miata also comments that all the Ghosts are strong, but in particular Miria and Clare. While Miata's senses go beyond mere Yoki-sensing, the fact she could say with no hesitation that all the Ghosts are strong, especially Miria and Clare, indicates an improvement far beyond "experience and skill."
But by your belief, Clare has the exact same amount of Yoki since they day she was given the rank of #47, when that is obviously far from the truth.

Even if we ignore the above, your only using evidence based around Clare, who is among the most unique cases in this manga and can't really be used as a measuring stick for whether Yoki can grow normally or not. Clare's circumstances and growth are anything but normal due to her 1/4 Yoma nature and status as a Half-Awakened.

Also, for Galatea, she could have well have just been poking fun at her rank then actually calling her weak. After all this time, Clare is technically still #47 of her generation after all.

As for Riful, she is more qualified then we are to decide whether Yoki-growth is possible or not, being one of the oldest and most powerful Awakened Beings in the setting. I'll also note she let Galatea go, not just Clare and Jean (the HA warriors) at this time, indicating she was referring to all three of them. You could obviously claim Riful was just being stupid, or it was deus ex machina to make sure the story didn't end then and there, but I think Riful had a better idea of what she was doing then we do.

Anyway, need to finish packing. See you all next week.

Edit: This discussion actually brought to mind an old theory of mine about Yoki Quantity vs Quality.

To make a long theory short, basically all Claymores have a varying degrees of Yoki quantity and quality. Quantity can easily be measured by most warriors, but quality is much harder to discern. Warriors like Galatea would have a very high quality, since she has a bigger strength increase when releasing Yoki then any other warrior in her generation.

Half-awakening didn't necessarily increase the amount (quantity) but clearly increased the efficiency (quality) of the Yoki, otherwise the Fab 4 wouldn't have been as strong as they were. This would explain why none of the 4, not just Clare, received no promotions despite being on par with low-single digits. Obviously, Clare's Yoki has increased after Half-awakening Teresa knows how many times, if Priscilla's comment on her strength in Pieta is any indication.

Obviously, I still think both amounts can be increased, but half-awakening probably has a much greater effect on the latter then the former.
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Old 2011-08-03, 03:33   Link #312
Gooral
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@Fenrir
No, I'm not ignoring anything. You are the one who is ignoring EVERYONE'S statements which were: Clare is weak. The only ones that said otherwise were Priscilla and Miata and I've mentioned about it in my earlier posts (in my first response I've mentioned Miata explicitly, in the second I've mentioned about conventional ways to measure Claymore's power which was youki measurement not some unknown sixth sense or a hunch or whatever). As you said yourself Priscilla is special. And they're not the only ones that could do things not many Claymores could. Ophelia could sense HAs and Miria could instinctively sense that Clare is stronger than her. Unless Prisicilla would be a MUCH better sensor than Galatea or she had also a sixth sense or she was mentioning Deneve and Miria it would be no more than a stupid guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
While Miata's senses go beyond mere Yoki-sensing, the fact she could say with no hesitation that all the Ghosts are strong, especially Miria and Clare, indicates an improvement far beyond "experience and skill."
Sure but that's entirely different than saying their youki has increased or powered up. In Miria's case even Hilda could tell she would become stronger than her and Hilda was #6 !!! So it's no wonder that Miata could tell it even though Miria was cloaked. As for Clare there is Teresa's factor in her so if she could somehow sense it it's no wonder she would consider her far stronger than others. And most probably for the same reason Priscilla sensed that Clare was strong. She recognized the characteristic smell/signature of the most powerful creature ever existed, creature that made her shit her pants. In no way does it indicate that they've suddenly powered up. For all we know they've had this power all along only needed time and/or training to access it. In no way does it suggest that they could become stronger ABs, only stronger Claymores.

_______
BTW, expect English scanlation soon (like 2-3 hours).
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Old 2011-08-03, 03:43   Link #313
haegar
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thank you for those two very entertaining pages @ shieky and ryus
nice post indeed goraal. more importantly though

Quote:
BTW, expect English scanlation soon
that SOOO made my day !!!! YEEEEEEEHAAAAAW
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Old 2011-08-03, 04:19   Link #314
Gooral
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I've just found raw and there are two pages missing in Chinese scanlation !!! Pages 2 and 3 were skipped and instead page 4 is supposedly page 2.



We can see Claymores number 5, 18, 22 and 31 and their symbols. Interesting stuff if you ask me.

I hope that posting only two pages is allowed but if it's not I can delete them.
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Old 2011-08-03, 04:39   Link #315
haegar
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Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
I've just found raw and there are two pages missing in Chinese scanlation !!! Pages 2 and 3 were skipped and instead page 4 is supposedly page 2.



We can see Claymores number 5, 18, 22 and 31 and their symbols. Interesting stuff if you ask me.

I hope that posting only two pages is allowed but if it's not I can delete them.
LOL

looks like there is nuthin substantially new though, prly is about Roxanne and the first warrior she copied, the #31 fighting hilt style I guess? Well, we'll be able to see soon enough
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Old 2011-08-03, 06:23   Link #316
Tom Bombadil
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Join Date: May 2007
No wonder I felt a bit strange reading the Chinese scan: now I know why.

I wonder if they were send to a suicide mission, since in the lower left box of page 2 it says that the team was put together by a "whim" of the organization.
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Old 2011-08-03, 06:50   Link #317
haegar
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Spoiler for OT:
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Old 2011-08-03, 06:57   Link #318
MalakTawus
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
I don't see any difference between what you guys are saying and what I said.

You both agreed that the is a cap on power.
The BIG difference is that i am saying that there is a cap in potential (in other words a genetical limit that exists for every living being) while you are saying that the yoki is already there but it's not completely unlocked at the beginning.
Those two concepts are completely different (even if at first look they may seem similar).

Edit:great find Gooral!

@Gooral: even Ophelia said that Claire's yoki was powerful.....just saying,not that it changes anything.....
......but anyway, no matter what theory one person belive,Claire is not a good example to use since her body is even more mysterious that other warriors.
For example something that is valid for her,doesn't necessarily is valid for the others.

Last edited by MalakTawus; 2011-08-03 at 07:23.
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Old 2011-08-03, 07:00   Link #319
Friday
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Invercargill Southland, New Zealand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post

Miata also comments that all the Ghosts are strong, but in particular Miria and Clare. While Miata's senses go beyond mere Yoki-sensing, the fact she could say with no hesitation that all the Ghosts are strong, especially Miria and Clare, indicates an improvement far beyond "experience and skill
Miata did not named the 2 warriors that risen above(Miria/Clare).
It could be Denevue & Helen......Yuma/Cynthia.......Tabitha/Cynthia....
we just have to wait and see.
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Old 2011-08-03, 07:12   Link #320
haegar
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aeh no offense there but it was pretty crystal clear since Pieta at the latest that Clare and Miria are a sizeable gap ahead of the other ghosts, even if Miata does not state it as such, there is imho little to absolutely no doubt she was referring to those two in that scene. (consider i.e. also Prisscilla at end of pieta commenting on the lights (yoki) fading out ... there likewise it was not mentioned directly it was clare and miria but with the way the fight went I read it the exact same way as Miata's statement here, only question with pieta was who of the two was the last light (in that case I believe Miria actually, but can't tell for sure)
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