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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 117 Rating
Perfect 10 13 19.40%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 19 28.36%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 17.91%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 16.42%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 10.45%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 4.48%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.49%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.49%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-08-03, 16:31   Link #421
FormerAbyssalone
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Yep Roxy is case A nutjob.



Kinda like.....




I can picture Roxy like this...
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:33   Link #422
haegar
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btw what i wrote on Roxy having a huuge problem once she reached top I kinda stole that notion from G-man on naruto forums who had the idea first.

Anyways one more twist at it: What if she just died all by herself (that is the one thing she actuall cannot remember): Once she reached the top and had no new target in reach she became depressive and catatonic - to the point that she simply let herself be killed or even took her own life? and for obvious reasons that final experience is surpressed from her otherwise "clear" resurrected memory...
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:36   Link #423
MalakTawus
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@Shiek

Quote:
Miria is a prime example of a warrior with fantastic 'normal' potential and rose through the ranks. She is definitely No.1 in her own right alongside Claire.
Miria has never proved to be n.1 material, this is her BIG chance to show all her mighitness (especially since probably this time it won't be a good idea to wait that Claire save her ass )

Quote:
Though while Riful is indeed weaker then Isley
There is not even one proof that states that Isley is stronger than Riful,not even once.

Quote:
the whole point of the revived No.1's were in reanimating warriors that were stronger then the Abyssal Ones out of at the time, so these three, as AB's, would more likely then not be stronger then the original big three.
Just no.
Read again what the Mibs said,they have absolutely no idea if the warriors listed are indeed stronger than the old AOs,those warriors are simply the ones that could have a possibility to be stronger....two VERY DIFFERENT things.....
It's about fifty fifty.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:42   Link #424
FormerAbyssalone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalakTawus View Post
@Shiek


Miria has never proved to be n.1 material, this is her BIG chance to show all her mighitness (especially since probably this time it won't be a good idea to wait that Claire save her ass )


There is not even one proof that states that Isley is stronger than Riful,not even once.
Yep its not stated.... Although I think Isley may have been just a tid bit stronger... Just a little bit.

I like Miria but she might end up like Audrey and co.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:43   Link #425
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
Oh right the she has an ability and must be special argument

*cough* Miria (former #18) *cough*

Disprove me Miria isn't at least normal #1 material. I dare you.

(going to ignore the Clare is possible #1 now even though it's easy to likely prove but since she too is "special" I don't want you discrediting my entire argument on that alone)
miria started fresh from academy at 18(17 ranks above roxanne!!!)! despite miria trained for 7 years in a way that even deadlast yuma could improve at the level of a number 14 and her half-awakening miria is probably still inferior to a number one like rafaella who fights with yoki. Remember that clare had to use her qs to beat rafaela who was still yokiless.
I don't want to prove anything because i know i can't but a nr. 35 can not become a number one with training and techniques alone. IMPOSSIBLE. Look what rafaella did to clare's windcutter. there is something really odd with roxanne going on here.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:46   Link #426
MalakTawus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerAbyssalone View Post
Yep its not stated.... Although I think Isley may have been just a tid bit stronger... Just a little bit.

I like Miria but she might end up like Audrey and co.
i'm not saying that it's wrong to belive that Isley may have been stronger,i'm simply saying that it's wrong trying to pass the concept "Isley was stronger than Riful" as a fact.
It's not a fact at all,just a matter of opinions.

@irvinethearcher

Quote:
miria started fresh from academy at 18(17 ranks above roxanne!!!)!
We don't know if that was her first rank IIRC.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:47   Link #427
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Judging from her whorish character, it wouldn't come off as a surprise if Roxanne slept with MIBs to escalate the echelons.
maybe there even was a romantic story between Roxanne and Isley in his AB form. Succubus+Horse or Whore+Horse. Maybe such a relationship lead to Roxanne's death as it was not tolerated by MIBs who were jealous that Roxanne cheated them with a horse,
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:48   Link #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
miria started fresh from academy at 18(17 ranks above roxanne!!!)! despite miria trained for 7 years in a way that even deadlast yuma could improve at the level of a number 14 and her half-awakening miria is probably still inferior to a number one like rafaella who fights with yoki. Remember that clare had to use her qs to beat rafaela who was still yokiless.
I don't want to prove anything because i know i can't but a nr. 35 can not become a number one with training and techniques alone. IMPOSSIBLE. Look what rafaella did to clare's windcutter. there is something really odd with roxanne here.
Roxanne obviously ate her former idol's hearts to gain their power and courage lol.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:48   Link #429
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Originally Posted by Ulquihorror View Post
In the chapter, it is said that Uranus used her hilt and guard to compensate for her lack of speed. Can anybody elaborate on that?
Aside from the other points mentioned, it's also a matter of physics.


Consider a circle centered at the shoulder (the central movement point; though technically the center of movement should be within the body mass, it's easier to visualize from the shoulder), with the radius extending out down the arm and blade. Now consider a force applied to swing the sword in an arc.

The swing speed of the sword/arm is another way of describing its angular velocity. The angular velocity is defined by the change in the angle θ at two points in time. For example, one could have a 90 per second angular velocity, which would be 1 every 0.011 seconds.

Now consider that the typically 'acceptable' area on the blade to use to strike a target is probably anywhere from halfway up the blade, out to the tip. Some rough estimates of distances from the center of the circle (the shoulder) would be:

2' = wrist
2.5' = guard
sword length of 3 feet
4' = half blade target
5.5' = tip of blade target

Those would be considered the radii of the circle.

The circumference of a circle is 2*π*r, and the distance covered by a certain segment of the circle (as defined by the angular change) would be 2*π*r*(θ/2*π) = θ*r.


If we consider a standard sword swing arc to be roughly 2 radians (~115) then the linear distance traveled would be 2*r.

Her swing speed in terms of angular velocity can be considered a constant. However the linear velocity traveled by the point of contact that she intends to hit with (blade or guard or whatever) varies inversely with the radius of the circle, which corresponds to the distance along the blade.

By closing the distance and hitting with the sword guard she's basically doubling the linear velocity that her attack vector moves at (compared to hitting with the tip of the blade), which is used to compensate for her slower angular velocity.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:49   Link #430
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Ugh, Malak, I'd refute you, if only I didn't remember, like the Abyssal power-rankings, how many times I already debated with you on all those subjects.

At least you admit the possibility of the new No.1's being stronger then the Abyssals.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:52   Link #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
miria started fresh from academy at 18(17 ranks above roxanne!!!)! despite miria trained for 7 years in a way that even deadlast yuma could improve at the level of a number 14 and her half-awakening miria is probably still inferior to a number one like rafaella who fights with yoki. Remember that clare had to use her qs to beat rafaela who was still yokiless.
(...)
I agree and good point about Raphaela. Clare was clearly better than Miria in their duel so Miria would stand no chance against Raphy unless she would release her youki just like she did with Hysteria. And BTW, we don't really know Miria is of #1 level yet. Defeating a bunch of warriors is something Ophelia (who BTW was leagues above Miria pre-time skip which Miria herself has stated) could easily do. With twins Miria struggled (and while she could probably kill one of them if they weren't awakened I doubt she would be able to kill two of them since the other would sure go all out then). The definitive proof will be her fight with Hysteria and whether she can make her use her youki or not. And if Hysteria uses her youki whether there will be a difference or not. Personally I think it would suck if Miria would win against Hysteria but the way Yagi is directing things it seems I'll be in a bad mood next chapter.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:55   Link #432
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Actually I wouldn't be suprised if Roxy did kill herself. U know nuthing else left once u reach the top.
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Old 2011-08-03, 16:58   Link #433
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalakTawus
We don't know if that was her first rank IIRC.
You are right but it was at the beginning of her career.
Hilda asked her if it is her first hunt, miria still had not developed her technique which she did before getting her half-awakened power up. Hilda mentioned that she would easily improve and if someone knows about the rules of training than he knows that in the beginning the power improves steep. Another thing which supports this is that despite her half awakening miria managed to improve only about lousy two ranks from 8 to 6.
Like i said before, in the beginning improvement is easy. Miria is a good example for that. There are a lot of hints that miria's career had just begun.
I don't want to prove anything here because i can't, i said that before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
I agree and good point about Raphaela. Clare was clearly better than Miria in their duel so Miria would stand no chance against Raphy unless she would release her youki just like she did with Hysteria. And BTW, we don't really know Miria is of #1 level yet. Defeating a bunch of warriors is something Ophelia (who BTW was leagues above Miria pre-time skip which Miria herself has stated) could easily do. With twins Miria struggled (and while she could probably kill one of them if they weren't awakened I doubt she would be able to kill two of them since the other would sure go all out then). The definitive proof will be her fight with Hysteria and whether she can make her use her youki or not. And if Hysteria uses her youki whether there will be a difference or not. Personally I think it would suck if Miria would win against Hysteria but the way Yagi is directing things it seems I'll be in a bad mood next chapter.
remember god old dae! miria does not have to win she only has to push hysteria into awakening which should be easy because of the instability of the number ones. Afterwards chaos will break loose the other two will also awaken and perhaps even battle each other, who knows what will happen.
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Old 2011-08-03, 17:07   Link #434
MalakTawus
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Ugh, Malak, I'd refute you, if only I didn't remember, like the Abyssal power-rankings, how many times I already debated with you on all those subjects.

At least you admit the possibility of the new No.1's being stronger then the Abyssals.
Of course i remember,infact i belive we decided to agree to disagree since it was impossible to confute our different theories.
I also agree that there is a good chance that this new 3 monster are stronger than the old abyssals,i'm just saying that it's not really possible to prove it since the Mibs only talked about possibilities,they never stated that the warriors listed are indeed stronger.
...also i'll add that actually those 3 monsters have a BIG chance of becoming clearly stronger than past AOs since Prissy's arm could give them (MAYBE) some extra power-up.

About Isley vs Riful i'm 100% sure that it's impossible to determine who is indeed stronger,even more difficult since their fighting style is completely different.

The only sure thing about AO's power level is that Luciela was a bit weaker than Isley........but honestly Shiek i think that it's pointless to open again a discussion that we already closed with "agree to disagree" since it's not that we have any new elements .
So i invite all the newer members to completely ignore this matter if possible,if not we'll end up repeating ourselves over and over .

@Gooral

Quote:
With twins Miria struggled (and while she could probably kill one of them if they weren't awakened I doubt she would be able to kill two of them since the other would sure go all out then).
Didn't Miria said clearly that she could kil the twins easily?
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Old 2011-08-03, 17:07   Link #435
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Well the good thing for Nina and co is that everything is set up for Deneve and them to save them.

hmmm, Helen/yuma vs cassy

Deneve/Dee/Tabby vs Roxanne.
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Old 2011-08-03, 17:08   Link #436
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Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
remember god old dae! miria does not have to win she only has to push hysteria into awakening which should be easy because of the instability of the number ones. Afterwards chaos will break loose the other two will also awaken and perhaps even battle each other, who knows what will happen.
There's also the fact that Hysteria was killed because she was planning on letting herself awaken in the first place so I really see her as the first to Hulk-out.
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Old 2011-08-03, 17:20   Link #437
irvinethearcher
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with the twins it is not that easy but you are right miria said that.
But the twins also said that they held back and if i see the scene with the feeders i think that the twins really held back.
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Old 2011-08-03, 17:25   Link #438
MalakTawus
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@irvinethearcher

The fact that it was Miria's first hunt doesn't mean a lot,infact if you remember when we saw Helen for the first time that was also her first hunt (and she was n.22,not so distant from n.17),and Deneve's 3 hunt....if you consider that that mission was a trap,it means that normally Helen wouldn't have done even one hunt,and Deneve only 2.......
This means that if before being n.17 Miria was n.25 (for example) it wouldn't be so strange to not be used in hunts,it can happen very easily.

The fact that she gained only 2 ranks after the awakening is easily explained by that fact that in that generation the first 5 warriors were real monsters (3 of them were n.1 material!!!...and the other two were incredible as well:a super strong psycho and one of the greatests eyes of all time,maybe the greatest)

Quote:
remember god old dae! miria does not have to win she only has to push hysteria into awakening which should be easy because of the instability of the number ones. Afterwards chaos will break loose the other two will also awaken and perhaps even battle each other, who knows what will happen.
ok, but....are you sure it's a good idea? If i were Miria i'd have some doubts about this.....some HUGE doubts....

Quote:
But the twins also said that they held back and if i see the scene with the feeders i think that the twins really held back.
The twins have never said that they held back during the fight with Miria, i remember them saying that with Raki.....and i remember Audrey saying that she held back against Miria......
With all due respect Miria>>>>>>>> newborn AF

-------------------------------------------------

Well,i'll continue to watch Steins Gate (too funny )

Last edited by MalakTawus; 2011-08-03 at 17:36.
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Old 2011-08-03, 17:37   Link #439
Ryus
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Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
miria started fresh from academy at 18(17 ranks above roxanne!!!)! despite miria trained for 7 years in a way that even deadlast yuma could improve at the level of a number 14 and her half-awakening miria is probably still inferior to a number one like rafaella who fights with yoki. Remember that clare had to use her qs to beat rafaela who was still yokiless.
I don't want to prove anything because i know i can't but a nr. 35 can not become a number one with training and techniques alone. IMPOSSIBLE. Look what rafaella did to clare's windcutter. there is something really odd with roxanne going on here.
16 actually, I got the number wrong , but you're speculating that Miria first rank was 17. This was never clarified. The point here being someone besides Clare has achieved power about on par to a number one. You can disagree all you want but many thing hint that Miria maybe equal to a number 1 yet nothing proves nor indicates Miria isn't about there.

As to Raphaela her yoki may have been released at the time, since Clare could sense it. Ergo 0% Clare may have been facing 9.998% Raphaela, further more nothing proves Miria is equal to Clare... all we know is that Miria decided that Clare's arm was good enough to wonder in area's with active org warriors and likely survive.

Look I agree there is something odd about Roxanne but nothing proves she gaining power via a yoki link. All we know is she can learn ability from it and some how blind opponents to her yoki. That is a far cry from leaching yoki and that kinda power isn't sustainable she'd eventually run out of leached power unless she somehow has found away to also produce that amount of yoki on her own. If her power drained as a result of no longer being able to leach power she never would have been considered one of the eight strongest number ones of all time.

Think of it like this she would have to absorb dozens of lower rankers to sustain her power, which she held to her death. Yet her ability only lets her target one at a time according to what we know. Therefore her only gaining power from yoki theft is impossible based on her strength at the end of her life.

You're using several other theories about Raphaela's power and linking Miria to her in an unknown way, yet worse still you haven't even thought your own argument to it's logical conclusion. The closest thing I can think of to make your theory work is if she via aligning her yoki with the target she makes her body copy every last detail of it and the yoma inside permanently, thereby making her transform into her target on some level but never siphoning power from the target since that kinda ability is unsustainable, yet Roxanne apparently did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
I agree and good point about Raphaela. Clare was clearly better than Miria in their duel so Miria would stand no chance against Raphy unless she would release her youki just like she did with Hysteria. And BTW, we don't really know Miria is of #1 level yet. Defeating a bunch of warriors is something Ophelia (who BTW was leagues above Miria pre-time skip which Miria herself has stated) could easily do. With twins Miria struggled (and while she could probably kill one of them if they weren't awakened I doubt she would be able to kill two of them since the other would sure go all out then). The definitive proof will be her fight with Hysteria and whether she can make her use her youki or not. And if Hysteria uses her youki whether there will be a difference or not. Personally I think it would suck if Miria would win against Hysteria but the way Yagi is directing things it seems I'll be in a bad mood next chapter.
How so? It's a fallacy argument... he failed to connect any of the people in question in terms of power...

As to Clare being better than Miria that's pure opinion... Miria never went all out and neither did Clare. Miria stopped when she felt Clare was satisfactory to risk such an endeavor, not cause she won or could have.

Look I'm not saying Miria is a Number One I'm just saying she close enough based on how little we know about how strong they really where. Point is given enough time anyone can achieve a level of power that irvinethearcher is claiming is impossible. Yuma being greater proof she's risen about as many ranks as Roxanne has.

Next off we have the issue of how long it takes to train without yoki vs power gained in combat with yoki. They might not be equal... Deneve's and Miria's power between there first mission with Clare and Pieta clearly implies both got a lot stronger in a short time. Deneve was kicking AB ass up till the end of Pieta and not being fodder like she was in her first hunt with Clare and Miria used phantom at least as as many times as she did when we first meet her though out that battle and recovered far quicker. That time jump was months at tops... not years.

I see no reason why Roxanne's power gain is impossible... the only reasons why most others fail to mimic is is the org preferring warriors to die "midlength" and them making training more trail by fire then actual training.

Miria struggle with the twins was the fact that she couldn't not only just cut them to KO them since they risked awakening if the other lost control. Miria reacted more to the other twin struggling too after chopping off the first twins arm, then to the arm's loss itself. Riful on the other hand would have saw that as her opening. In other words Miria was at a loss of what to do and prolonging the fight way longer than she needed to... it in no way proves how weak she was yoki wise, only her lack of conviction to carry out her goal if it risked there lives. The last we really know of Miria vs Ophelia is that Miria was far weaker than Ophelia at rank 8 but by the time of Clare's first AB hunt Miria might have narrowed that gap a bit, and who knows by the time Pieta came along, she was able to match speeds with Rigardo for crying out loud and he was far superior to Ophelia. Ophelia was also a visual attacker, against Phantom she might be all but defenseless ability wise (not skill) once the gap in there powers narrows.

As to Hysteria she was stated to be an above normal number one... losing to her would not disprove the fact that Miria might be a normal number one.

Edit: sorry for the lazy english but I was typing and eating at the same time if you need any clarifications just ask
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Old 2011-08-03, 17:38   Link #440
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I am really hoping that Cassandra will remember that Roxanne killed her. That way Cassandra can turn against Roxanne, that would be a very interesting fight. It would give all the claymores from the new generation time to heal themselves.(those who actually survived). They could each fight to the death and the victor (in this case i would say Roxanne) might be weakened enough for Helen and Deneve to kill.

But i would prefer it if Cassandra wins and joins the rebels in destroying the organization. Its not to hard to believe because Cassandra doesn't seem very evil.
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