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Old 2011-06-28, 05:22   Link #81
Snork
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One thing I realized from reading this chapter is that during Sayaka and Kamijou scene, Madoka state that she made it (the event) this way so that she can save Sayaka from turning into a witch. The event that she changed was probably how Kamijou never hurt his hand to begin with and thus making his relationship with Sayaka not happening...
Wait, what? Hanokage's getting ideas again...
I'm used to interpeting Madoka's apology in the anime as not using her wish to save Sayaka (that would destroy ANY kind of future all right, since Madoka would have become Gretchen and we all saw Homura lost the will to make new timelines). Any details referring to Madoka pulling off God-like manipulation of the world break upon a question - how can she do that? She didn't wish to be a goddess and have conscious reality-warping powers, that's for sure.

Of course, there's always the point about acquired powers which are related to the wish made (Homura's time stop, Sayaka's fast recovery, Kyouko's hinted mind control/illusions/whatever). It would be an interesting point to explore regarding Madoka, but I'm notsure where to start. Even her status is abnormal - on one hand, she's a magical girl, on the other hand, she's no longer bound to time and physical matters, and in the mundane universe, her contract has technically expired the moment she turned into a witch.

Sigh, one thing 4chan was right about: Japanese interviewers seem to tiptoe around the show too much. There are many more interesting questions to ask Magica Quartet. Until then, speculah and WMG is our fate. And I'm too cautious about Hanokage's interpretation since she's known to have interpreted things differently from canon already.
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Old 2011-06-28, 08:21   Link #82
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Akemi Homura is so hot..in this manga...especially in chapter 12...
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Old 2011-06-28, 16:28   Link #83
Riga92
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Chapter 12 is finally out: http://shinitan.wordpress.com/2011/0...ro-vol1-batch/

Pretty much the same as the anime, but with one major difference. The epilogue is different. Instead of Homura continuing to fight the demons in a desert, we see that she finally reunites with Madoka in Magical Girl Heaven. She's back in her Moemura appearance, and she ask Madoka if she's alright with being friends with her. Madoka tells her that they've always been friends, now and forever. And then they walk off into the light.....o god my tears can't stop flowing

The manga makes me wonder what it would be like if this scene was used in the anime instead of the desert scene.

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Old 2011-06-29, 10:05   Link #84
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what it would be like if this scene was used in the anime instead of the desert scene.
Don't take it for black humour, but I think Japan would be flooded again - by the audience's tears this time.
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Old 2011-06-29, 11:06   Link #85
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See, Gen, that's how you do a heart-warming epilogue
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Old 2011-07-06, 08:41   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Snork View Post
Don't take it for black humour, but I think Japan would be flooded again - by the audience's tears this time.
Other country also get affected by the flood because some other people also got watch Madoka...if Gen makes an alternate ending in BD/DVD(meaning 2 episode 12). Then i think...yea.(My house will be greatly flooded, dunno what happen to japan,maybe other countries also, America too)
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Old 2011-07-29, 07:33   Link #87
MakubeX2
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Just a head's up :-



Vol.1 of the first official authorised oversea-chinese release under publisher Tong Li will be slated to released on August 11th in Taiwan.

Any official English seems unlikely under the current condition of most American's Manga Publisher.
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Old 2011-08-03, 21:28   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
TV ending rant ahoy:

Spoiler:


Spoiler for Argument on wishes; major Madoka spoilers:
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Old 2011-08-03, 22:06   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
spoilers
Do I really have to point this out?

Spoiler:


Quote:
This is what Madoka Magica always said about wishes, right to the end: "Be careful what you wish for".
But then it abruptly swerved into

Spoiler:
at the last possible minute.


I swear I'm going to need to watch Pan's Labyrinth like four times before I calm down from this.

Last edited by Hagoshod; 2011-08-03 at 22:35.
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Old 2011-08-03, 22:23   Link #90
Akashin
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Uh... what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


Quote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


Quote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


Quote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


Quote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:


I get why one might be displeased with the ending; your mileage will definitely vary on that. But to call the ending a complete betrayal of the principles the story had been showing until that point, when in fact the ending was meant to show what happens when you do show proper care for what you wish for, is just wrong.
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Old 2011-08-03, 22:53   Link #91
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Let me keep this simple:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
But to call the ending a complete betrayal of the principles the story had been showing until that point, when in fact the ending was meant to show what happens when you do show proper care for what you wish for, is just wrong.
Are you suggesting that in the thousands of years the MG system has existed, since the time man has evolved out of his original cave dwelling ways, there hasn't been a single young girl who was as much of a carefully-thinking, self-sacrificing idealist as Madoka? After ages and ages of MG wishes being plagued by monumental injustice, it took a random Japanese schoolgirl somewhere around the span of three weeks to figure out how to revise the system?

Because, if you are, how can you not see how many things are wrong about that conclusion?

And it's not just that. Once again, Madoka is not just a really, really, really careful thinker. By the story's own admission, her wish was only feasible because a bullshit rule change came out of nowhere at the last second and was required to work in tandem with the fact that she's a really, really, really careful thinker.
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Old 2011-08-03, 22:58   Link #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Are you suggesting that in the thousands of years the MG system has existed, since the time man has evolved out of his original cave dwelling ways, there hasn't been a single young girl who was as much of a carefully-thinking, self-sacrificing idealist as Madoka? After ages and ages of MG wishes being plagued by monumental injustice, it took a random Japanese schoolgirl somewhere around the span of three months to figure out there was a better way?

Because, if you are, how can you not see how many things are wrong about that conclusion?

And it's not just that. Once again, Madoka is not just a really, really, really careful thinker. By the story's own admission, her wish was only feasible because a bullshit rule change came out of nowhere at the last second and was required to work in tandem with the fact that she's a really, really, really careful thinker.
When did I say Madoka was the only person to make a carefully thought out wish? She is the only one we see do so, but I see absolutely no reason to assume that she is the first to do so. But I don't see what point knowing that serves, really.

And the rule change wasn't out of left field; not really, anyway. We got several (two off of the top of my head, maybe more) hints at Madoka's potential being godlike in nature, although she always assumed Kyubey was exaggerating. The only thing that changed was that we learned that she quite literally was godlike in potential (although I never saw any reason to believe Kyubey was at all exaggerating), and we learned why that was. How is that out of nowhere?
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Old 2011-08-03, 23:05   Link #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Let me keep this simple:



Are you suggesting that in the thousands of years the MG system has existed, since the time man has evolved out of his original cave dwelling ways, there hasn't been a single young girl who was as much of a carefully-thinking, self-sacrificing idealist as Madoka? After ages and ages of MG wishes being plagued by monumental injustice, it took a random Japanese schoolgirl somewhere around the span of three months to figure out there was a better way?

Because, if you are, how can you not see how many things are wrong about that conclusion?

And it's not just that. Once again, Madoka is not just a really, really, really careful thinker. By the story's own admission, her wish was only feasible because a bullshit rule change came out of nowhere at the last second and was required to work in tandem with the fact that she's a really, really, really careful thinker.
Yes? Why not? For one thing, people willing to actually trade their lives for the sake of others, completely selflessly, are actually pretty rare. That kind of sacrifice isn't something to be made flippantly, you know. And the thing is, the reason why Madoka received the unique opportunity to make a carefully worded and thought out wish is because Homura forced her to--by repeatedly interrupting her attempts to contract until Madoka was absolutely damn certain about what she really wanted to do. Your disproportionate sense of disbelief has no basis at all.
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Old 2011-08-03, 23:35   Link #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
When did I say Madoka was the only person to make a carefully thought out wish?
Here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
when in fact the ending was meant to show what happens when you do show proper care for what you wish for, is just wrong.
By saying "when you do show proper care for what you wish for" in this context, you're implying Madoka was the first person in history to ever show proper care for what she wished for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
And the rule change wasn't out of left field; not really, anyway. We got several (two off of the top of my head, maybe more) hints at Madoka's potential being godlike in nature, although she always assumed Kyubey was exaggerating. The only thing that changed was that we learned that she quite literally was godlike in potential (although I never saw any reason to believe Kyubey was at all exaggerating), and we learned why that was. How is that out of nowhere?
It comes out of nowhere because it revolves around Kyubey saying Madoka has God powers. A character saying someone arbitrary has God powers, when nobody else holds this ability and it's never properly explained (turn back a page if you haven't seen me criticize every aspect of episode 10's conclusions), establishes absolutely nothing.

If this had been a brainless Magical Girl series played straight, I wouldn't have a problem with this. Certain female characters possessing unrivaled magical potential "just because" happens all the time in this genre. However, when something is critically acclaimed as a deep and tightly written deconstruction of Magical Girl stories and tries to get away with the same cheesiness, I'm going to have a field day with it.

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Yes? Why not? For one thing, people willing to actually trade their lives for the sake of others, completely selflessly, are actually pretty rare. That kind of sacrifice isn't something to be made flippantly, you know.
There's a difference between "rare" and "non-existent until one oddball occurrence in 2011."

Quote:
And the thing is, the reason why Madoka received the unique opportunity to make a carefully worded and thought out wish is because Homura forced her to--by repeatedly interrupting her attempts to contract until Madoka was absolutely damn certain about what she really wanted to do.
And that was all contingent on a radically new interpretation of the show's rules that came up only 20 minutes before Madoka made her wish.

Homura forced her to do nothing. The only reason Homura didn't just set her clock back and do the same old same old while she was lying there with her ankle buried in rubble was because Kyubey had literally just finished bringing up the "Karmic Destiny" ultimatum out of nowhere to conveniently block that option.
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Old 2011-08-03, 23:54   Link #95
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
There's a difference between "rare" and "non-existent until one oddball occurrence in 2011."
Why? Even if there happened to be another good-hearted/self-deprecating girl like Madoka in earlier times, it's certainly believable that none of them had the opportunity to fully realize the scope and nature of the mahou shoujo/witch system without the aid of someone like Homura.

Quote:
And that was all contingent on a radically new interpretation of the show's rules that came up only 20 minutes before Madoka made her wish.

Homura forced her to do nothing. The only reason Homura didn't just set her clock back and do the same old same old while she was lying there with ankle buried in rubble was because Kyubey had literally just finished bringing up the "Karmic Destiny" ultimatum out of nowhere to conveniently block that option.
That's not a rule change, and doesn't have anything to do with anything anyhow. What Kyuubey told Homura wasn't an 'ultimatum', it was just an ugly truth to try to make Homura fall into despair faster. The reason Homura stopped was that she gave up emotionally on saving Madoka; not because continuing on had somehow become automatically bad or no longer possible. The point also being, of course, that in the first place, it must be Madoka who ultimately makes and takes responsibility for her own decisions.

Also, here's a hint: Kyuubey tells every Mahou Shoujo that they can have anything they wish for, not just Madoka. It's not that Madoka has god powers that somehow enable her to wish for things that other Puella Magi couldn't; it's just that Madoka can pour more energy into her wish without burning out her soul gem. Madoka turns into a witch almost immediately after making her wish in both the 'fourth' and 'fifth' timelines, so it's not actually like Madoka's gigantic soul gem ultimately really saved anything; in actuality, it's only the fact that Madoka's wish was itself to prevent the birth of witches that allowed her to work things out in the end.
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Old 2011-08-04, 01:54   Link #96
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Why?
Because the notion that it took thousands of years for Einstein x 1000000000 to appear in the form of a single school girl is absolutely ridiculous. That's why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Even if there happened to be another good-hearted/self-deprecating girl like Madoka in earlier times, it's certainly believable that none of them had the opportunity to fully realize the scope and nature of the mahou shoujo/witch system without the aid of someone like Homura.
Except
1. Most of the ancient Magical Girls Madoka visited were obviously aware they were doomed to become Witches.
2. Homura didn't actually *teach* Madoka anything. Everything Madoka knows came from observing the downfall of Sayaka, a standard Magical Girl from her own universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
What Kyuubey told Homura wasn't an 'ultimatum', it was just an ugly truth to try to make Homura fall into despair faster.
An incredibly convenient ugly truth that was dropped into the conversation for the sole purpose of creating an obstacle.

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
The reason Homura stopped was that she gave up emotionally on saving Madoka; not because continuing on had somehow become automatically bad or no longer possible.
No. Absolutely and utterly no.

You're either forgetting why Homura is actually in despair in that scene, or you're ignoring it because it contradicts your argument. In any case, please recall that Homura was at first all like "Well this sucks."



And then she thinks to herself, "Psst. Screw it. I'll just go back and try again."



But then she abruptly STOPS! And she does so solely because she feels...





So, yeah, the show's own canon defeats your entire case. The ONLY reason she won't time travel again is because Kyubey gave her a contrived piece of information that forbids her from doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Also, here's a hint: Kyuubey tells every Mahou Shoujo that they can have anything they wish for, not just Madoka. It's not that Madoka has god powers that somehow enable her to wish for things that other Puella Magi couldn't




It's like I'm debating with someone who didn't even watch the show.
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Old 2011-08-04, 02:35   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
Because the notion that it took thousands of years for Einstein x 1000000000 to appear in the form of a single school girl is absolutely ridiculous. That's why.
Madoka is hardly portrayed as an 'Einstein' . As has been said a number of times now, the advantage Madoka was afforded was her circumstances.

Quote:
Except
1. Most of the ancient Magical Girls Madoka visited were obviously aware they were doomed to become Witches.
2. Homura didn't actually *teach* Madoka anything. Everything Madoka knows came from observing the downfall of Sayaka, a standard Magical Girl from her own universe.
1. Prove this. I've seen nobody else ever make this assumption at all.
2. Sayaka's downfall was unusual in the first place. Not many mahou shoujo are crazy enough to try throwing their Soul Gems off a bridge. Also, it is Kyuubey who provides a fair degree of the information that ultimately led Madoka towards her solution. The only reason Kyuubey ever said so much was precisely because Homura kept warning her, thus forcing Kyuubey to provide ever more information and justifications.

Quote:
An incredibly convenient ugly truth that was dropped into the conversation for the sole purpose of creating an obstacle.
It's hardly an obstacle. If Homura believed she could ever actually defeat WalpurgisNacht, then Madoka gaining greater magical potential is completely inconsequential.

Quote:
No. Absolutely and utterly no.

You're either forgetting why Homura is actually in despair in that scene, or you're ignoring it because it contradicts your argument. In any case, please recall that Homura was at first all like "Well this sucks."


And then she thinks to herself, "Psst. Screw it. I'll just go back and try again."


But then she abruptly STOPS! And she does so solely because she feels...


So, yeah, the show's own canon defeats your entire case. The ONLY reason she won't time travel again is because Kyubey gave her a contrived piece of information that forbids her from doing so.
lrn to logic. "Madoka's fate deepens" by itself doesn't have anything to do with anything. The only reason why "Madoka's fate deepens" matters is because "No matter how many times I try, I can't beat it." Because Homura is unable to achieve her desired outcome, that's why continuing on will only make things worse. Once WalpurgisNacht is actually defeated, however, "Madoka's fate deepens" becomes utterly irrelevant. That is why, Homura stopping had everything to do with giving up on defeating WalpurgisNacht, and only tertiarily with Kyuubey's words to her. After all, she did have to be completely beat up and humiliated by WalpurgisNacht before she started entertaining the notion, right? Instead of just diving into despair immediately after Kyuubey gave her his hypothesis. Initially, Homura didn't even care.

Besides, why is this information 'contrived' in the first place? It's perfectly consistent and believable with the rest of the show. Very fitting, you could even say. Wouldn't it make sense that a witch's power, which comes from grief, would be based on the sum of the misfortune they are fated to suffer? There is no need to stretch our suspensions of disbelief at all.

Quote:
It's like I'm debating with someone who didn't even watch the show.
Have you ever heard Kyuubey say, "Your wish cannot be granted"? Every time a magical girl asks "Is it possible for me to wish for [such and such]" he goes "Your Soul Gem has the power to do so". The effectiveness of Madoka's wish has nothing to do with the size of her soul gem. The only thing the size actually effects is: her power as a magical girl; her power as a witch; and the amount that Kyuubey drools over it.
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Old 2011-08-04, 07:04   Link #98
Akashin
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Originally Posted by Hagoshod View Post
By saying "when you do show proper care for what you wish for" in this context, you're implying Madoka was the first person in history to ever show proper care for what she wished for.
I don't see how what I said implies anything of the sort. Of the characters in the show, Madoka is the first one we see to be given the time/opportunity to make a carefully thought out wish. Whether anybody before her was lucky enough to get the same chance is entirely irrelevant.

Quote:
It comes out of nowhere because it revolves around Kyubey saying Madoka has God powers. A character saying someone arbitrary has God powers, when nobody else holds this ability and it's never properly explained (turn back a page if you haven't seen me criticize every aspect of episode 10's conclusions), establishes absolutely nothing.

If this had been a brainless Magical Girl series played straight, I wouldn't have a problem with this. Certain female characters possessing unrivaled magical potential "just because" happens all the time in this genre. However, when something is critically acclaimed as a deep and tightly written deconstruction of Magical Girl stories and tries to get away with the same cheesiness, I'm going to have a field day with it.
Except it wasn't, "Just because." You not being able to buy the explanation they gave isn't the same as there not being an explanation. If you don't like how they explained it, that's perfectly fine; I'm not out to change your opinion, and I doubt I could even if I was trying to do so. But the explanation is there and, as Sol said, it makes sense with the rest of the series.

Anyway, Sol covered everything I didn't. So I'll leave it at this.
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Old 2012-05-21, 22:10   Link #99
Kimidori
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The series has been licensed in the US by Yen Press, with the first volume being released in May 2012.
Official page for US manga release
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Old 2012-06-07, 21:02   Link #100
Kirito
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The Puella Magi Madoka Magica franchise is creating another manga series.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...a-magica-manga
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