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Old 2004-11-19, 01:46   Link #121
aahhsin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
You really need to write coherently. It's not that hard to spell "because". I would appreciate it if you take the extra time to hit a few more keys on the keyboard, it really doesn't take that much effort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naszim
u can steal other peoples resources all u want, soon theyll be gone. in 50 years or so we'll have no oil, and itll be too late to make alternate solutions of power to use as alternatives for our many uses of oil. instead of thinking ahead were not doing any thing productive to create wind generators and things that require oil to make.
Wind Generators are in use, and frankly they can't be used for the inventions that require the use of Oil. Wind Generators are not reliable and takes a huge amount of space and for less space and more efficency, one can build a Power Plant. Sure there's enviormental concerns, but whatever let's just keep this simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naszim
if we dont start making them well in advance wat will we do when were out of oil? wat other alternatives r there?
bush should use his oil now to create wat we'll need in the future, if it keeps being delayed we'll be screwed.
Have you read the news lately? They are already trying to develop new sources of energy. Many automobile manufactuers are developing Fuel Cell cars that use Hydrogen and creates water as a byproduct. We all know Hydrogen is the most abundant resource on earth, so we shouldn't be running out of that. Too bad speed demons will hate these new cars, since they can only go about 93 MPH. It's still in testing mode, but who knows what we can achieve in 10 years.

Here's a link from CNN.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/10/09/fuelcell/

Quote:
he just stole a bunch of oil, the only reason he woulnt invest it into somthing is becuz the oil has to be made into money so the rich can get even richer. these companys r getting richer off of the deathes of americans who faught and still fight for the oil, lives for money.
I never like this oil business as the cause for war. Too much Michael Moore... here's something funny about this. I'm going to make this into a capital investment.

With Bush invading Iraq for "oil" he is already making an investment. By investing into a victory in Iraq, America will be able to now purchase more Oil from another country with supplys of it, and it will be cheaper, due to the supply of oil going down.

So how does this help YOU the consumer of the middle class? Due to the increase in supply of Oil, businesses can now lower prices for the rest of the people.

Isn't it funny, how many people bitch about how the rich get richer and such? Yet the rich are the ones shelling out millions of dollars to develop the very items that you people use? Is it honestly their fault that you're buying their items? Capital investment is NOT cheap, but it still needs to be developed.

I just helped Samsung earn another few dollars by buying a monitor from them. Oh! wait, it's a computer part, it has nothing to do with oil.

Here's a hypothetical situation:

If you drive a car, you just helped the company develop another tool that uses Oil. Guess what? You just contributed to the rise in oil prices by creating more demand! Yay! And of course, we now need more oil to help some more people run their cars and be able to get to work for a company that CREATES the Tires that are used for the cars they were just driving! And of course the cycle continues.

Heck, it takes oil to make the paved roads that we drive on. It takes oil to light the stove and cook the food you eat. Unless you actually start a massive protest and start walking to work, riding public transportation, and actually not use any oil, then you're not helping the situation one bit.

I think most people here just do not understand how business and a free market economy works... Here's a very useful quote.

"It takes money, to make money."
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Old 2004-11-19, 01:58   Link #122
ramune
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
Too bad speed demons will hate these new cars, since they can only go about 93 MPH. It's still in testing mode, but who knows what we can achieve in 10 years.
but here's what we can have with hybrid in 10 years.

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/volta.html

I don't know about fuel cell cars though.
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Old 2004-11-19, 04:58   Link #123
Green²
It's Magic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Up and to the Left
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
Wind Generators are in use, and frankly they can't be used for the inventions that require the use of Oil. Wind Generators are not reliable and takes a huge amount of space and for less space and more efficency, one can build a Power Plant. Sure there's enviormental concerns, but whatever let's just keep this simple.
The point is that we should be able to create inventions that would replace the current tools that consume oil.

Quote:
Have you read the news lately? They are already trying to develop new sources of energy. Many automobile manufactuers are developing Fuel Cell cars that use Hydrogen and creates water as a byproduct. We all know Hydrogen is the most abundant resource on earth, so we shouldn't be running out of that. Too bad speed demons will hate these new cars, since they can only go about 93 MPH. It's still in testing mode, but who knows what we can achieve in 10 years.

Here's a link from CNN.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/10/09/fuelcell/



I never like this oil business as the cause for war. Too much Michael Moore... here's something funny about this. I'm going to make this into a capital investment.

With Bush invading Iraq for "oil" he is already making an investment. By investing into a victory in Iraq, America will be able to now purchase more Oil from another country with supplys of it, and it will be cheaper, due to the supply of oil going down.

So how does this help YOU the consumer of the middle class? Due to the increase in supply of Oil, businesses can now lower prices for the rest of the people.

Isn't it funny, how many people bitch about how the rich get richer and such? Yet the rich are the ones shelling out millions of dollars to develop the very items that you people use? Is it honestly their fault that you're buying their items? Capital investment is NOT cheap, but it still needs to be developed.

I just helped Samsung earn another few dollars by buying a monitor from them. Oh! wait, it's a computer part, it has nothing to do with oil.

Here's a hypothetical situation:

If you drive a car, you just helped the company develop another tool that uses Oil. Guess what? You just contributed to the rise in oil prices by creating more demand! Yay! And of course, we now need more oil to help some more people run their cars and be able to get to work for a company that CREATES the Tires that are used for the cars they were just driving! And of course the cycle continues.

Heck, it takes oil to make the paved roads that we drive on. It takes oil to light the stove and cook the food you eat. Unless you actually start a massive protest and start walking to work, riding public transportation, and actually not use any oil, then you're not helping the situation one bit.
It's not about on how much more oil that we can gain, but is of on how much more that we can reduce. We have the technology today at this very time to do so. But instead, we got these fools that would rather use a automobile of great oil consumption over a vehicle that could consume far less.

And in theory, if we were to replace almost every vehicle today with a vehicle of far less consumption, we could just about double the availability of oil to the US alone,.. at least for cars as consumer transportation.


Quote:
I think most people here just do not understand how business and a free market economy works... Here's a very useful quote.

"It takes money, to make money."
It takes effort to create effort. Without my effort, you have no effort. And money is only a tool to show that effort.
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Old 2004-11-19, 14:50   Link #124
aahhsin
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green²
The point is that we should be able to create inventions that would replace the current tools that consume oil.
Untill that actually happens, your going no where.

Quote:
It's not about on how much more oil that we can gain, but is of on how much more that we can reduce. We have the technology today at this very time to do so. But instead, we got these fools that would rather use a automobile of great oil consumption over a vehicle that could consume far less.
That's absurd, your going to mass extremities that will not happen in our lifetime. Do you have the money to buy a new car just to use Fuel Cells? Are gas stations willing to install a new fuel cell pumping stations just to satisfy the 10 people that actually bought a car? How about you buy me a brand new fuel cell car?

We do have the Technology, you want to drive a nuclear powered car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzz
m curious as to how you would go about doing this. A typical nuclear powered turbine is quite bulky and not exactly ideal for something like a car. Then there's the security concerns too.
And as Cruzz just showed me, Nuclear isn't an option either. Face it, Oil is what everyone needs. Heck I don't think Solar works well either.

Quote:
And in theory, if we were to replace almost every vehicle today with a vehicle of far less consumption, we could just about double the availability of oil to the US alone,.. at least for cars as consumer transportation.
Again with the radical extremties! And you jsut stated a vehicle of far less comsumption. What exactly is that can I ask? A hybrid? Sure, but can you buy me one? Along with the rest of the billions of car owners in the world?

Hell theorectically, all 6 billion people in the world can move to Texas and live there. Might be a bit crowded, but hey it's theory.

Quote:
It takes effort to create effort. Without my effort, you have no effort. And money is only a tool to show that effort.
You just took that quote and changed some words around. Give me an example how by you working hard makes me want to work hard.

Effort is one thing, but without any materials you're not going anywhere.

Last edited by aahhsin; 2004-11-19 at 16:50.
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Old 2004-11-19, 16:09   Link #125
Cruzz
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
We do have the Technology, you want to drive a nuclear powered car?
I'm curious as to how you would go about doing this. A typical nuclear powered turbine is quite bulky and not exactly ideal for something like a car. Then there's the security concerns too.
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Old 2004-11-19, 17:02   Link #126
TheLaughingMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzz
I'm curious as to how you would go about doing this. A typical nuclear powered turbine is quite bulky and not exactly ideal for something like a car. Then there's the security concerns too.
I think that's basically his point. It's totally non pratical. It's not *that* easy to just suddenly switch to a non oil lifestyle. Most people can't even afford it. Even if the US did someday fully switch over, many underdeveloped countries wouldn't be able to.

Switching from VHS didn't happen overnight, and some people still don't own DVD players. This example is on a much much smaller scale, both time and expense wise, but it's the general idea.
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Old 2004-11-19, 17:56   Link #127
ramune
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Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan
It's not *that* easy to just suddenly switch to a non oil lifestyle.
And that's why I said we will still only have hybrid cars in 10 years, as it serves as a transition phase between gas-powered cars and hydrogen-powered cars. Right now it is more feasible to have hybrid cars that are cheaper and more efficient, instead of developing the "clean" cars.
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Old 2004-11-20, 00:56   Link #128
Green²
It's Magic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Up and to the Left
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
That's absurd, your going to mass extremities that will not happen in our lifetime. Do you have the money to buy a new car just to use Fuel Cells? Are gas stations willing to install a new fuel cell pumping stations just to satisfy the 10 people that actually bought a car? How about you buy me a brand new fuel cell car?

We do have the Technology, you want to drive a nuclear powered car?



And as Cruzz just showed me, Nuclear isn't an option either. Face it, Oil is what everyone needs. Heck I don't think Solar works well either.



Again with the radical extremties! And you jsut stated a vehicle of far less comsumption. What exactly is that can I ask? A hybrid? Sure, but can you buy me one? Along with the rest of the billions of car owners in the world?

Hell theorectically, all 6 billion people in the world can move to Texas and live there. Might be a bit crowded, but hey it's theory.
The idea is that production of current inefficient vehicles must end. That over a period of time, people will be forced to buy a more efficient vehicle if and when they desire/need a fresh off the assembly line vehicle.


Quote:
You just took that quote and changed some words around. Give me an example how by you working hard makes me want to work hard.

Effort is one thing, but without any materials you're not going anywhere.
What good are materials if nobody has the effort to gather them? Will you give effort to me, if I do not give effort to you? Most call that charity if you do. But what makes up economy is the equal and active trade between others. All of which requires effort to run.

But for example:
"How about you buy me a brand new fuel cell car?"
There is no point in me producing cars for you if you're not going to give anything in return of at least equal value to me. When we together show that we will put together equal effort, open will be that of a seed to economy.
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Old 2004-11-20, 03:13   Link #129
aahhsin
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green²
The idea is that production of current inefficient vehicles must end. That over a period of time, people will be forced to buy a more efficient vehicle if and when they desire/need a fresh off the assembly line vehicle.
That would be ideal, but businesses cannot afford suddenly mass producing feul effecient vehicles. Then Gas Stations will now have to install more fuel lines for whatever new type of feul you'll use. Then you'll have to hire and train new people to make these types of engines and cars. Thus rendering the old workers useless and laid off. It is slowly changing, but a sudden change will never work, especially when Oil is the most effecient type of feul for these types of technology. It gives power, speed, torque, and reliablilty.

This is new technology we're talking about, it's unreliable, dangerous, and untested. It could take over 20 years before your dream of Feul Cell/Electric cars start occupying the streets. Guess what? Oil is still the man during this time.

Quote:
What good are materials if nobody has the effort to gather them? Will you give effort to me, if I do not give effort to you? Most call that charity if you do. But what makes up economy is the equal and active trade between others. All of which requires effort to run.
I'm sorry but I'm awfully confused by your entire points on this subject. I already told you, we're SLOWLY going to toward Hydrogen cars. But CURRENTLY it's just doesn't work as well as Gasoline based cars. There's also too much investment needed to be made. It takes less money and time to gather Oil from Iraq then it would to get Hydrogen, mass produce them in brand new factories that'll probably take up to 10 years to build, higher workers, develop the machines, AND market and distribute all of these nice new cars.

If we follow your plan and start producing the new effient cars companies will need:

New Machines
New Workers
New Factories
New Designers
New Engineers
New Distributors
New Facilities

Now you can say why won't the government step in and require these items? It can, just taxes are going to get higher. And I remember most people here are already bitching about Bush's deficeit. Unless everyone wants to pay more taxes this isn't going to happen.

What does Charity has to do with effort?

But for example:
"How about you buy me a brand new fuel cell car?"
There is no point in me producing cars for you if you're not going to give anything in return of at least equal value to me. When we together show that we will put together equal effort, open will be that of a seed to economy.[/QUOTE]

What the hell are you talking about? Don't use any metaphors. It's confusing in a argument and they can mean anything.

I understand that your saying if everyone goes buy your car and everyone cooperates in one way then the're will be no problem. There's just one problem, STOP THINKING RADICALLY!

Not everyone can adjust to change that easily. The costs of doing so are off the charts. It doesn't matter if companies have millions of dollars, creating new investments like this is rediculously high, and NO company will take the huge risk of going out of business just to save the world.

Electrics believe it or not ARE NOT AS EFFICIENT as Oil based cars. They're slow, can't carry heavy loads, and can go about 2 hours before a all day recharge. And like everyone knows, Batteries will diminish everytime you charge it some more and more. Like cellphones and Lithium batteries.

BTW how did Osama's WMDs become an argument about cars?
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Old 2004-11-20, 04:31   Link #130
Green²
It's Magic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Up and to the Left
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
BTW how did Osama's WMDs become an argument about cars?
Kind of spawned from oil, but that's probably on part my fault. Remember, in this process of change, we do not need to completely abandon oil for our transportation needs. Take Honda's Insight for example. An example of the change that we could take. You think these changes would hurt automotive companies and their workers? They said the same thing back then when we were forced to incorporate fuel injection to replace carbureted designs. But look at where we're at now.

Yet one last thing, how much longer do you think that the profits in oil will offset the cost of the war alone? But for the people of Iraq, they have little say on where and what those profits go to. Something in the end that fuels the cause to terrorism,.. to many, an occupation it is seen.

Last edited by Green²; 2004-11-20 at 04:35. Reason: Typo
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Old 2004-11-20, 04:33   Link #131
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
That would be ideal, but businesses cannot afford suddenly mass producing feul effecient vehicles. Then Gas Stations will now have to install more fuel lines for whatever new type of feul you'll use. Then you'll have to hire and train new people to make these types of engines and cars. Thus rendering the old workers useless and laid off. It is slowly changing, but a sudden change will never work, especially when Oil is the most effecient type of feul for these types of technology. It gives power, speed, torque, and reliablilty.

This is new technology we're talking about, it's unreliable, dangerous, and untested. It could take over 20 years before your dream of Feul Cell/Electric cars start occupying the streets. Guess what? Oil is still the man during this time.



I'm sorry but I'm awfully confused by your entire points on this subject. I already told you, we're SLOWLY going to toward Hydrogen cars. But CURRENTLY it's just doesn't work as well as Gasoline based cars.
You're right about the fuel cell cars, but hydrogen powered cars aren't necessarily powered by fuel cells. Remember, hydogen is flammable, as the hindenberg demonstrated. Thus, it can be used as a fuel for good old internal combustion engines. It would not be a major technical challange to start producing cars that run on hydogen using this system. It also wouldn't be a huge problem to convert existing cars to run on hydrogen. however, with no infrastructure to produce and transport lage quantities of hydogen in place, it would be a lot more expensive to use hydrogen as opposed to gas. Performance wise, there shouldn't be much of a difference, since the only major changes are to the fuel injection and storage systems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
BTW how did Osama's WMDs become an argument about cars?
I've been wondering about that too.
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