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View Poll Results: Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 5 9.80%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 13 25.49%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 27.45%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 17.65%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 15.69%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.92%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-08-07, 23:15   Link #41
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Who else hates omelet rice girl? I thought her reaction was juvenile. She deserved a backhand to her face. She got off easy with Minko's scorn.
Why was her reaction juvenile?

This is a school event, Reck. It's not a job interview. It's not an attempt to win a spot on American Idol. It's just a school event. The main goal is to have fun. And letting people do things that please other classmates that they have crushes on, or close friendships with, is part and parcel of having fun. It still needs to have some structure to it, of course, but where's the harm in letting omelet girl make her omelet rice?

Omelet rice girl's reaction and complaint was perfectly reasonable. Minko is taking this far too seriously.
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Old 2011-08-07, 23:26   Link #42
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Why was her reaction juvenile?

This is a school event, Reck. It's not a job interview. It's not an attempt to win a spot on American Idol. It's just a school event. The main goal is to have fun. And letting people do things that please other classmates that they have crushes on, or close friendships with, is part and parcel of having fun. It still needs to have some structure to it, of course, but where's the harm in letting omelet girl make her omelet rice?

Omelet rice girl's reaction and complaint was perfectly reasonable. Minko is taking this far too seriously.
She certainly didn't deserve to be hurr durr'd by Minko, but crying and making a scene over something like this is over the top. It's one thing to voice your disagreement, and another to throw a hissy fit without considering anything else.

And Minko? Minko wasn't helping by being so inflexible, so this is a collective fail on both sides of the equation.
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Old 2011-08-07, 23:29   Link #43
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Yeah I shouldn't say necessarily that Minko handled this well, because her reaction was very rigid and inflexible. But throwing some sort of fit over... omelet rice? Give me a fricken break!
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Old 2011-08-07, 23:32   Link #44
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She certainly didn't deserve to be hurr durr'd by Minko, but crying and making a scene over something like this is over the top. It's one thing to voice your disagreement, and another to throw a hissy fit without considering anything else?
Ok, her complaint was reasonable, but her reaction was a bit over-the-top. I'll concede that.

It's just that this is such a small thing to risk a flat-out mutiny over, which is what Minko pretty much has on her hands now.
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Old 2011-08-07, 23:38   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Ok, her complaint was reasonable, but her reaction was a bit over-the-top. I'll concede that.

It's just that this is such a small thing to risk a flat-out mutiny over, which is what Minko pretty much has on her hands now.
Actually you know what; I blame the writer for this...

This is not a new thing; I think the show actively goes out of its way to make its characters look bad. It seems to have this obsession with making people behave as irrationally as possible and thus nobody can get along; effectively this is an engineered conflict that is haphazardly welded into the story.

But I will not dismiss it right away; they can cash in easily by just letting Minko compromise in the next episode. Next episode, however, is the make or break point; in my eyes, this is their last chance.
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Old 2011-08-07, 23:55   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
[*]The drama leaves its audience very apathetic to the events at play. Who the fuck cares about omelette rice? I actually cheered when Minko bitched that girl out. I mean wtf, are we freaking 5 years old?
It was pretty heavily implied that she wanted to serve it to the boy she likes - probably with a sappy message written in ketchup. And the other girls seem to be behind the girl in question. In other words, Minko just blundered into a relationship web with all the tact of a bulldozer. I don't have my trouble saying I found the scene dramatic because I was actually cringing at Minko's actions.

As to some of the other complaints mentioned... well, I've long thought of this as a drama/slice of life hybrid (I might use "soap opera for anime fans" if not for soap opera generally having a very negative connotation), so I've been expecting a number of episodes to focus on fleshing out the people Ohana works with all along. And actually, I've usually been able to see the transitions between drama and SoL coming a few episodes in advance.

(As to one of your later posts, even considering our disagreement over episode 7 and a few others, I wouldn't consider 1-2 and 9-11 the only strong episodes of the show. I thought 12-13 was better than 9-11.)

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
What impressed me the most was how this episode actually made use out of earlier characterization and plot elements. This is just "standard good-writing", of course, but I do feel that a weakness for this anime has been the lack of appropriate "fallout" or "followup" on certain character and plot developments (to use a recent example, how we have yet to see any real negative repercussions arising from the movie scam of three episodes ago).

So it was nice to see Hanasaku address that weakness by how it:

1. Remembered Nako's character development from the previous episode, and factored it seamlessly into this one.

2. Remembered the special older waitress outfits from a dozen or so episodes ago, and had them play a role here too.

Hanasaku is far from perfect in this regard, but at least not all notable character and plot developments are just falling into the memory hole.
I think this is one of the major things I love about this show... I keep noticing little touches like these, and its one of the reasons why I enjoy the more slice of life-ish episodes more than a typical anime SoL (the fact that the characters by and large are actually pretty well written compared to other anime SoLs helps too... the "fail brigade" is the exception, not the rule).


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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
While I appreciate Okada's attempt to interject some serious personality drama into this anime (so much so that I actually saw shades of True Tears here), I fear that the price for that might be too high, as it frankly made Minko come off terribly, even perhaps regressing the excellent character development Minko had received in many recent episodes. This was a shame, too, since I felt that this episode was also hitting a good balance with Minko... until that final scene where she simply let loose verbally on the rest of her classmates.
This is a two part arc, I wouldn't judge her until its done. I don't think we're going to end up with another Enishi arc where the climactic scene of the arc overshadows the character development - that was actually out of character for the show IMO.

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Now, on the topic of Ohana's dream... As silly as that may seem (and I can understand people disliking it), I actually think it conveys a very important point. I think that Ohana's dream represents how she wishes that she could go back to her and Ko just being good, close platonic friends again. I think Ohana truly misses that, more than she herself likely knows.

So Ohana's dream feminizes Ko, makes him a fellow waitress, and hence destroys romantic/sexual tension in the process. Ko is made like Nako so that Ohana can go back to being close friends with Ko, all romantic pressure faded away.

It's an interesting route that Okada is taking with Ohana's relationship with Ko.
Damn, I missed that in being amused in the acid-tripiness of it all and its a great observation. I've long felt that neither Ohana would prefer to just stay friends with Kou, and that Kou would have actually preferred to stay friends a while longer too, but he got desperate and shook things up. I'm actually wondering if the resolution to this plot thread will involve them learning how to be friends again.

This is not a new thing; I think the show actively goes out of its way to make its characters look bad. It seems to have this obsession with making people behave as irrationally as possible and thus nobody can get along; effectively this is an engineered conflict that is haphazardly welded into the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
This is not a new thing; I think the show actively goes out of its way to make its characters look bad. It seems to have this obsession with making people behave as irrationally as possible and thus nobody can get along; effectively this is an engineered conflict that is haphazardly welded into the story.
I don't think its intentional (although I do think that they borrowed too much from the Sunohara school of comedy characters for Enishi. Jiromaru is fine on his own, but someone needs to remind them that there's a reason most series only have one Sunohara.). Most of the people in this show just have some rather deep set personality flaws - even the characters people really like such as Ohana herself.
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Old 2011-08-08, 00:10   Link #47
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I don't think its intentional (although I do think that they borrowed too much from the Sunohara school of comedy characters for Enishi. Jiromaru is fine on his own, but someone needs to remind them that there's a reason most series only have one Sunohara.). Most of the people in this show just have some rather deep set personality flaws - even the characters people really like such as Ohana herself.
Then someone forgot they they eventually would throw Sunohara a bone and give him some character development. And you're right, there's too many of these guys, and not.

I have nothing against flawed characters as long as the show pauses for a bit to handle these flaws in a decent manner. My favorite animes are full of mentally unstable characters after all. I don't expect super seriousness either, but eh... it's really not ticking.

Jinomaru's probaly the worst example, since they kinda botched his character to begin with, and there's nothing likable, interesting, or respectable about him, and this kinda trickles down to everyone else.

Is it really too much to ask that people don't act 1/3 their age?
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Old 2011-08-08, 00:11   Link #48
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I can't remember a TT reference for weeks until today, and certainly not in this context. To chalk all the (justified, IMO) criticism of this show up to measuring it against TT is pretty inaccurate. Seems to me that most of the criticism HanaIro has received has been on its own merits.

The first thing I thought when this ep was over was that Okada probably hadn't written it, and indeed she didn't. Even if she's ultimately responsible for the overall plot in every episode, there's a pretty clear difference between the eps she writes (like last week) and those she doesn't. The humor is crisper and the interactions less awkward on her episodes, even if - as last week's was - they're basically disposable.
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Old 2011-08-08, 00:30   Link #49
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It is quite amazing that every episode Okada personally handled have been the bes tones of the series pretty much.
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Old 2011-08-08, 00:48   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
It is quite amazing that every episode Okada personally handled have been the bes tones of the series pretty much.
Wouldn't put her completely blameless though, since the series composer at least does the outlines for every episode.

-----------------------------------

As for the general discussion of episode 19, this was rather infuriating. Once again, every male character in this episode has been portrayed as some kind of idiot, loser, retard etc. Here's some of top of my head:

1. The class president and all the male classmates going gaga for Yuina and Minko in regards to the idea of the "Princess cafe" and even giving them honorifics.

2. The homeroom teacher in the corner drooling and taking a nap, not giving a damn about what's happening (I actually thought this was funny however).

3. Tooru being tsundere about whether or not he's going to the culture festival

4. Ren being over-exaggeratedly startled when Nako mentioned something his eyebrow

5. Jiromaru and his usual silly ero-novel antics

6. Kou in a crossdressing maid-outfit in Ohana's dream (WTF is with this one seriously?)

7. The ""No boys allowed! No peeking either!" "But why? I wanna see! This makes us wanna peek even more" notice (*SIGH* /massive facepalm)

The comedy in this episode was just stupid, exaggerated and of typical anime-fashion used in pretty much 90% of other slice of anime out there. The only male character that I see that actually isn't kinda pathetic is Beanman. It's not a cool story bro.

And the drama with the omlet rice girl. Really? I like drama and all, but the premise for this was rather ridiculous. QQing about not being able to make an omlet rice for a boy you like. Grow some balls (or breasts in your case).

Also, anyone noticing Ohana become more ditzy and airheaded in these last few eps? I'm noticing less and less bulldozer style Ohana which I loved from the first cour of the series. Argh... things are getting worse and worse.

Luckily, at the very least Minko is starting to become a much more likable character these days. Heck, I would say Minko > Ohana these last few eps.
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Old 2011-08-08, 00:55   Link #51
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@Gauradian Enzo:
I don't know if your post was directed at me or not, but the reason I (politely) brought up not using TT reference is because in past HanaIro threads when people used it, the admins also warned against it. My motives had nothing to do with being annoyed at criticizing this show by measuring it against TT. While I don't think it's against the rules to say a few things about another show, there was a post earlier that was comparing Minko to one of the characters in TT. To me, that fits the description of being inappropriate and off-topic for this very narrow thread. There are other places in this sub-forum to discuss that.

As for this episode...
I give Minko points for being a hard worker and dedicated, but she is just way too irritable and bad at dealing with people. I'm also scrathcing my head why she's considered one of the two princesses of that class. Are the guys trying to find a balance? Is cheerful and flity Yuina there to get there hopes and dreams up, and when they've had their fill, they let the icy Minko send their souls crashing down into the pits of hell???
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Old 2011-08-08, 00:59   Link #52
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And the drama with the omlet rice girl. Really? I like drama and all, but the premise for this was rather ridiculous. QQing about not being able to make an omlet rice for a boy you like. Grow some balls (or breasts in your case).

This. Maybe it's a cultural thing and I just don't understand the subtlety and profundity of rice in an omelet with cutesy messages scribbled in ketchup, but I don't see why this girl can't just make him omuraisu on her own time and give it to him personally. Seems to me that she's just throwing a fit because Minko attracted effortlessly a guy she's known since elementary school yet still hasn't built the courage to actively pursue. That and projecting her anger at her own impotence towards someone else.
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:02   Link #53
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This. Maybe it's a cultural thing and I just don't understand the subtlety and profundity of rice in an omelet with cutesy messages scribbled in ketchup, but I don't see why this girl can't just make him omuraisu on her own time and give it to him personally. Seems to me that she's just throwing a fit because Minko attracted effortlessly a guy she's known since elementary school yet still hasn't built the courage to actively pursue. That and projecting her anger at her own impotence towards someone else.
I think she just figured it'll be more memorable if she does it at a big event. Possibly she's banking on a few of the other girls for support too (which she wouldn't get in a private setting).

Also, I don't think its particularly uncommon for people to get worked up over that "one little thing". To me, this episode demonstrated a significant lack of people skills on Minko's part. If you must turn down a request like that, you do so in a way that at least makes the person in question feel like you're taking their concerns seriously. Minko's handling of it was just plain bad (and the actual source of most of the drama in that scene... like I mentioned, she handled it so badly I cringed).
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:31   Link #54
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It was pretty heavily implied that she wanted to serve it to the boy she likes - probably with a sappy message written in ketchup. And the other girls seem to be behind the girl in question. In other words, Minko just blundered into a relationship web with all the tact of a bulldozer. I don't have my trouble saying I found the scene dramatic because I was actually cringing at Minko's actions.
Yeah, I largely agree with this. Minko didn't read "the mood" very well.

In fairness, the situation isn't entirely fair to Minko either.

Her classmates are guilty of excessively applying a halo effect of sorts to Minko, thinking that just because she's hard-working and physically attractive that she's good at everything.

Minko probably doesn't have the best personality for running something like this, and to her credit, she herself knows that but she was pretty much forced into it anyway.


Quote:
This is a two part arc, I wouldn't judge her until its done. I don't think we're going to end up with another Enishi arc where the climactic scene of the arc overshadows the character development - that was actually out of character for the show IMO.
We'll see. Hopefully you're right.

My feelings here are similar to Archon's. Next episode will be very telling to me. If they handle Minko right, then I'll be more optimistic going into the final arc.


Quote:
Damn, I missed that in being amused in the acid-tripiness of it all and its a great observation. I've long felt that neither Ohana would prefer to just stay friends with Kou, and that Kou would have actually preferred to stay friends a while longer too, but he got desperate and shook things up. I'm actually wondering if the resolution to this plot thread will involve them learning how to be friends again.
I'm starting to lean that way myself. Interestingly, Ohana doesn't seem to have much interest in romance, period. If nothing else, that's different for a major female character in an anime of this kind. It can be pretty refreshing at times.


Quote:
I don't think its intentional (although I do think that they borrowed too much from the Sunohara school of comedy characters for Enishi. Jiromaru is fine on his own, but someone needs to remind them that there's a reason most series only have one Sunohara.).
Bingo. And there's the chief flaw of Hanasaku Iroha, right there, in my view.

One comedic relief character that's typically played just for laughs is fine, but three or more is really pushing it, imo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
I give Minko points for being a hard worker and dedicated, but she is just way too irritable and bad at dealing with people. I'm also scrathcing my head why she's considered one of the two princesses of that class.
Honestly, I think it's mostly (if not entirely) physical. The idea is that Minko and Yuina are the best looking girls in class, hence "Princesses".

Now, we may not think that, but the narrative is clearly amping up Minko and Yuina as the "hot girls" that all the guys like.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I think she just figured it'll be more memorable if she does it at a big event. Possibly she's banking on a few of the other girls for support too (which she wouldn't get in a private setting).
Agreed. Plus it provides a convenient pretext for it without having it seem like a lead-in to a romantic confession.

It's a way for the girl to give out a "safe hint" romantically. Safe in that the guy might get it, and act on it, but it's not likely to result in a confirmed romantic rejection.
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Old 2011-08-08, 02:06   Link #55
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@Gauradian Enzo:
I don't know if your post was directed at me or not, but the reason I (politely) brought up not using TT reference is because in past HanaIro threads when people used it, the admins also warned against it. My motives had nothing to do with being annoyed at criticizing this show by measuring it against TT. While I don't think it's against the rules to say a few things about another show, there was a post earlier that was comparing Minko to one of the characters in TT. To me, that fits the description of being inappropriate and off-topic for this very narrow thread. There are other places in this sub-forum to discuss that.
Actually, I was responding to what Meo said. Since you mention it though, I won't speak for the mods but I can't think they meant to say that a post comparing Minchi's behavior in a specific episode to the way another character in an anime by the same writer behaved is either O/T or inappropriate. What could be more on-topic than talking about character behavior in an episode in a thread dedicated to that episode? As long as it doesn't degrade into a general "HI vs. TT" debate, I wouldn't think it would be an issue.
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Old 2011-08-08, 02:45   Link #56
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Well now, this is more like it. It has been a while since they've shown a decent episode. Ohana, Yuina, and Nako(with her upgraded personality or whatnot) were quite amusing as side characters =03. Even Jiroumaru amused me with his little part.

Minchi, on the other hand, was def a bitch at the end. Had she been like, say, Okami, who would sternly separate love and work, I'd find what she said acceptable. However, demeaning someone else about mixing love and work when that's exactly what you are doing by trying to make a menu Tohru would be proud of, makes her a hypocrite. It was, to put it frankly, a selfish, bitch move >=0[.
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Old 2011-08-08, 03:05   Link #57
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I think she just figured it'll be more memorable if she does it at a big event. Possibly she's banking on a few of the other girls for support too (which she wouldn't get in a private setting).
Yeah but then again, I don't really respect that kind of indirect and indecisive style of doing things. And putting other people in it just seems outright coercive.

I'm interested in what's going on in Nako's class. Namely, why no one showed up to help. She said they all agreed, but she seems melancholic when the subject is brought up. I'm actually suspecting that she enthusiastically pushed the idea while everyone else didn't necessarily care for it, which would be a rain on her new character change.
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Old 2011-08-08, 06:39   Link #58
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I liked the girls humming the op song and beside that I'm not quite sure if there was anything I liked about this episode. If anything, it was watchable. The others said it already, and I'll say the omelet rice scene was pathetic. It seemed like the episode was wasting time with little side story than going forward with the story. A few references to the previous episodes were nice touch but they were not good enough to make this episode memorable. It's 7/10 from me.
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Old 2011-08-08, 10:09   Link #59
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Now, on the topic of Ohana's dream... As silly as that may seem (and I can understand people disliking it), I actually think it conveys a very important point. I think that Ohana's dream represents how she wishes that she could go back to her and Ko just being good, close platonic friends again. I think Ohana truly misses that, more than she herself likely knows.

So Ohana's dream feminizes Ko, makes him a fellow waitress, and hence destroys romantic/sexual tension in the process. Ko is made like Nako so that Ohana can go back to being close friends with Ko, all romantic pressure faded away.

It's an interesting route that Okada is taking with Ohana's relationship with Ko.


Anyway, for whatever reason, Hanasaku Iroha's school based-episodes tend to strike a chord with me. I'm looking forward to the next episode.
I see that more as a sign that Ohana wants to keep working at the Kissuiso while being together with Ko. While Ohana claimed she chose her work over love, she really wanted both to coincide.
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Old 2011-08-08, 10:46   Link #60
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I think its funny how it seems at school, no one seems to notice Ohana exists. XFD.
The other girls get the other attention.
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