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View Poll Results: Steins;Gate - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 12 18.46%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 24.62%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 23 35.38%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 16.92%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 4.62%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-08-06, 09:17   Link #81
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakuramariks View Post
Deleting the very first D-mail will "delete" the cause. Mayuri will be saved this way.

Even now, Mayuri is not save, i don't believe she is, even if she is alive. They are not in the beta worldline yet.
So how's about do not invent the machine in the first place? Then it will effectively delete the event which led to Mayurii's death. Much more simple, and avoid all of the unneeded consequences
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
Sure, there's probably somewhere close to a 1% chance that his 2nd D-mail will cause major unintended consequences.

This is what happened:
1. Ruka's mom gets message "eat vegetables"
2. Ruka's mom gets message "vegetables meat vegatables meat..."

I would think 99% of people who receive something like this would ignore it. In which case, the timeline would be progress as if Ruka's mom never got those messages, and Ruka will be a girl. Even if there's deviation, it's neglible to the point that its effects might not surface until maybe many years in the future.
The problem here is, the D-mail in Stein Gates were made by SG author to be absolute in controlling events, which is very unrealistic. In reality, society activities and human line of thought are much more complicated.

Even if Ruka's mom got the 2nd message, there's no way that the initial message could simply be erased from her head (considering how it really affect her child later on). She may just progress with eating more vegetables anyway. She may visit the doctor, or call her mother, which then suggest her to eat some weird stuffs instead. The process of all these activities can associate with risks that may just end Ruka's life, or the Ruka we all knows about. That's the truth danger of "buttlefly effect". (Notice that the case of Feyris dad have even larger amount of possible outcomes)

However what we got in this anime is the strict and absolute controlled events that can not escalate more than unthoughtful decision and simple common sense of Okarin (or us reader/ audiences). It will be a little better if Okarin is showed to be a scientist nerd,who went to interview all concerned party,draw out all possible scenarios, design them carefully, and finally ready to take risk on the highest % chance. You knows something like real scientists actually will do, instead of just wearing lab coats, chatting on forum, and put together useless random stuffs.

Then what really pushed my limit, is how they all come up to random cause which led to the disappearance of the IBM. With reasons like that, I can make dozens on the spot without knowing much background on the character:
  • Ruka's father always want a daughter who can play piano, so he just clear up the store house to make it into her music room
  • Ruka's mom turn the backyard into the gardens and the storage rooms into a tool shed
  • Ruka knows a computer nerd and he told her about the valuable of the IBM,and her father decide to donate it to local library/museum
.....etc

PS: btw just want to say that. The anime and storyline is still OK. But now it's just too straight forward and is not as great as i thought it can play out
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Last edited by risingstar3110; 2011-08-06 at 09:34.
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Old 2011-08-06, 12:11   Link #82
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I sure wish one anime story line could be created without every goddamn chick in the show falling all over the main character, it's my biggest pet peeve and it completely killed the episode for me. I'm sure next episode will have Mayuri confessing her undying love to him and by the end of the series even the glasses chick will come out and say she killed Mayuri because she was jealous and is madly in love with Okarin. I long for the days of multiple strong male leads in anime.

But whatever, decent episode, I guess.
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Old 2011-08-06, 14:55   Link #83
Eater of All
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
So how's about do not invent the machine in the first place? Then it will effectively delete the event which led to Mayurii's death. Much more simple, and avoid all of the unneeded consequences
It's not entirely certain that preventing the machine from being made will save Mayuri (she might still die of random causes), and Okarin will screw himself over because he will no longer have the machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
The problem here is, the D-mail in Stein Gates were made by SG author to be absolute in controlling events, which is very unrealistic. In reality, society activities and human line of thought are much more complicated.

Even if Ruka's mom got the 2nd message, there's no way that the initial message could simply be erased from her head (considering how it really affect her child later on). She may just progress with eating more vegetables anyway. She may visit the doctor, or call her mother, which then suggest her to eat some weird stuffs instead. The process of all these activities can associate with risks that may just end Ruka's life, or the Ruka we all knows about. That's the truth danger of "buttlefly effect". (Notice that the case of Feyris dad have even larger amount of possible outcomes)

However what we got in this anime is the strict and absolute controlled events that can not escalate more than unthoughtful decision and simple common sense of Okarin (or us reader/ audiences). It will be a little better if Okarin is showed to be a scientist nerd,who went to interview all concerned party,draw out all possible scenarios, design them carefully, and finally ready to take risk on the highest % chance. You knows something like real scientists actually will do, instead of just wearing lab coats, chatting on forum, and put together useless random stuffs.
It seems to me you're accusing Steins;Gate of two things, or more specifically, Okarin of one and the author of another:

1. What Okarin did was "unthoughtful"
Why is Okarin's attempt at cancelling Ruka's D-mail "unthoughtful"? To me (as I explained in my previous post), it seems like a pretty good plan. You noted that the 2nd D-mail might not completely erase existence of the 1st; that is true, but there is also such a thing as a "degree" in a butterfly effect: the deviation appears very slowly if the initial condition is only slightly different. Okarin's attempt at reducing the initial condition change is already as good as any. Expecting him to do those things that you listed a "scientist nerd" would do would be completely out of character for him, IMO.

2. The author letting Okarin's "unthoughtful" plan succeed is a totalitarian act
Even assuming that Okarin could have tried a better method, I don't see how it is tyrannical of the author to let him succeed on this method. You're right: some unforeseen consequences could have happened, and Ruka could have not become a trap again, but really, is it that necessary to throw all these random plottwists in there in order to be "realistic"? I guess if the author wanted to expand on Okarin's difficult journey, those are some elements s/he can introduce, but personally I don't think those are so necessary to the point that it's evil of the author not to include them.

And one interesting thing I noticed is that, at the end of this episode, the world is reverted to the 0.523307 trap Ruka (but IBN missing) timeline. In the beginning, the trap Ruka (but IBN missing) timeline is 0.523299 (this can be checked from ep8). The author is smart enough to know that the 2nd D-mail doesn't completely wipe out the butterfly effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Then what really pushed my limit, is how they all come up to random cause which led to the disappearance of the IBM. With reasons like that, I can make dozens on the spot without knowing much background on the character:
  • Ruka's father always want a daughter who can play piano, so he just clear up the store house to make it into her music room
  • Ruka's mom turn the backyard into the gardens and the storage rooms into a tool shed
  • Ruka knows a computer nerd and he told her about the valuable of the IBM,and her father decide to donate it to local library/museum
.....etc
Yeah, any reason can work, they just have to be related to the IBN. It's sort of a stretch if you think about it, but hey, you gotta agree it makes the story much more fun and Okarin's journey much more deliciously painful.

I can see why you don't like it though.

Last edited by Eater of All; 2011-08-06 at 15:16.
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Old 2011-08-06, 17:35   Link #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
So how's about do not invent the machine in the first place? Then it will effectively delete the event which led to Mayurii's death. Much more simple, and avoid all of the unneeded consequences
The explanation for that I saw was that even if Okarin sends himself a D-mail telling him not to create the machine that D-mail will still register on SERN's servers and make them investigate. So going and getting the IBN not only gets them off of SERN's network but let's them keep the D-mail technology.
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Old 2011-08-07, 01:43   Link #85
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Besides if you undo the very first d-mail then Kurisu will wind up dead and I'm pretty sure Okarin will not make a choice which leads to Mayuri being alive but Kurisu dead.
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Old 2011-08-07, 01:50   Link #86
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I KNEW it.

Facebook takes over the world next episode.

o___o



Also. Why is anyone arguing "realism" about A TIME TRAVEL STORY? The time travel plot device is usually used so the author can play with themes of determinism and free will. Thus it does whatever the hell the author wants it to do. Since time travel, um, doesn't exist (yet), I'm personally going to disregard "realism" in the time travel mechanics and willingly suspend my disbelief so long as it's internally consistent.
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Old 2011-08-07, 04:29   Link #87
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The trouble with deleting the first dmail is that kurisu will end up dead (suzuha kills her when she doesn't crash?). But also there's another way that Okabe can time travel or something as Kurisu said she saw him just before yet he had no recollection of that happening (maybe it was future him)?
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Old 2011-08-07, 13:04   Link #88
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Wow, if this shows pace keeps up (and really it is impeccably paced...neither too slow or too fast) and the quality of the characters and writing stay the same as in this current arc it'll probably go down as my favorite anime based on a visual novel of all time. Higurashi currently holds that title, but considering how downhill that franchise has gone I think it's opened up the gate quite nicely for a new fave.
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Old 2011-08-07, 18:28   Link #89
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Higurashi ended in 2007; it never went downhill.

What are you talking about?

Edit: Also Fate/stay night ended in 2006; I have no idea what is this Unlimited Blade works is.
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Old 2011-08-07, 18:56   Link #90
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Higurashi ended in 2007; it never went downhill.

What are you talking about?
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Old 2011-08-07, 20:46   Link #91
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Yea, that fanmade video was kinda bad. Clearly, a real anime studio would do better.

*Imagines Steins;Gate being done by Deen.* Oh nos the horror!
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Old 2011-08-07, 21:12   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
fanmade
Are you in denial ?

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-08-07, 21:16   Link #93
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TsundereCake View Post
Are you in denial ?
Next thing you'll tell me is that Madhouse made a terrible adaptation of Steins;Gate's predecessor and caused people to be skeptical about this show. Or that Haruhi had the audacity to repeat the same episode eight times.

Nobody could possibly be that stupid. I have no time for this nonsense.

"You're always super special...that's why you are here with me."

Alright, who sent a dmail causing all this crap to be made? Change it back. Now.
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Old 2011-08-07, 22:30   Link #94
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Well, a comedy episode (except the last few minutes) was needed after all the dramatic stuff during the last two weeks. Okabe and Kurisu have great chemistry
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Old 2011-08-07, 23:47   Link #95
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Hey guys, for some reason the OP sounds very familiar to me. I know there is some song that is very very similar to this one, and I feel like I've heard it in an old anime but I can't just grasp what it was. Does anyone else know what i'm talking about?
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Old 2011-08-08, 00:09   Link #96
TsundereCake
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post

Nobody could possibly be that stupid. I have no time for this nonsense.
Whoa, calm down.
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Old 2011-08-08, 01:43   Link #97
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Originally Posted by TsundereCake View Post
Whoa, calm down.
But I wouldn't be doing my job then. Crap, I need to use more emoticons; I think my sarcasm has failed this time.

Anyhow, I can't wait for the next episode of an actually good anime-- this one.
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Old 2011-08-08, 23:38   Link #98
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This episode got me to dislike Ruka, honestly.
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Old 2011-08-09, 00:15   Link #99
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This episode got me to dislike Ruka, honestly.
Because... he's a gay?

Btw, we having new episode today.... damn, I could stick my ass on the chair and wait all day to be the first one to watch Oh, and a good thing's we're finally about to see Okabe's striking back Moeka. That's what I've been waiting all this time
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Old 2011-08-09, 00:17   Link #100
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Not all love will have happy endings..
Spoiler for Ep18:
Anyway, the next episode is going to be very tense. I still find it hard to believe that Mayuri looks very different wearing a blonde wig [in this episode].
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