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Old 2011-08-08, 21:15   Link #15541
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
I gave up on the US long ago. It is a dying nation. I wonder how many nations will be created from its break up
Rome "fell" for almost 300 years... it could be a lengthy nasty ride nonetheless.
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Old 2011-08-08, 21:25   Link #15542
Ithekro
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300 years is a long time. A lot can happen...and given our progress...a lot should happen in and beyond Earth orbit. The smaller Earth becomes in the grand scheme of human civilization, the less meaningful the fall of the United States will mean...if it falls, or just is absorbed into a planetary government (with other planetary governments).
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Old 2011-08-08, 21:30   Link #15543
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
I gave up on the US long ago. It is a dying nation. I wonder how many nations will be created from its break up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Rome "fell" for almost 300 years... it could be a lengthy nasty ride nonetheless.
Let's not forget people were writing Rome's obituary when Hannibal was rampaging through Italy, when it had not even come close to reaching its height though. Further, even after Rome itself fell, the Eastern Empire survived for another thousand years.

Though the US doesn't need to go the path of Rome. A decline does not inevitably lead to a collapse after all. It can even be reversed if you get the right people in power at the right time. Of course it's foolish to think the US will last forever, but I think it's rather premature to write it off just yet.
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Old 2011-08-08, 22:08   Link #15544
TigerII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
300 years is a long time. A lot can happen...and given our progress...a lot should happen in and beyond Earth orbit. The smaller Earth becomes in the grand scheme of human civilization, the less meaningful the fall of the United States will mean...if it falls, or just is absorbed into a planetary government (with other planetary governments).


Honestly, I have been in for a one world Republic for years now. If every nation became nothing but a member state, war would not be necessary. Be-foe that can happen, we have to be able to reach other planets efficiently. Rape other planets, not our own.
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Old 2011-08-08, 22:46   Link #15545
killer3000ad
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Riot/looting hotspots across Londonium.
Spoiler:

Also a voice of reason
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Old 2011-08-09, 00:00   Link #15546
andyjay729
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Son of a something...London's on fire! Even the posh areas on the West End!

And my brother is in England now...(in Chester, but still). He visited London for the first time just last weekend.

When I talk to him after he gets back to the States, I wanted to ask if perhaps the UK is a place he'd want to escape to if things go to hell here...but I don't think I will now...

Yeah, I know Britain isn't the stiff-upper-lipped, straitlaced society of Mary Poppins anymore, and I've heard about the unrest during the '80s, but I thought tensions had eased up somewhat. I just hope attitudes improve in time for the Olympics next year.

The people who genuinely feel aggrieved by the white upper classes and police and don't just want to use this current period of tension to grab an iPod would do well to consider the example of the people of Japan and what they've been going through this year.
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Old 2011-08-09, 00:11   Link #15547
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post
Son of a something...London's on fire! Even the posh areas on the West End!

And my brother is in England now...(in Chester, but still). He visited London for the first time just last weekend.

When I talk to him after he gets back to the States, I wanted to ask if perhaps the UK is a place he'd want to escape to if things go to hell here...but I don't think I will now...

Yeah, I know Britain isn't the stiff-upper-lipped, straitlaced society of Mary Poppins anymore, and I've heard about the unrest during the '80s, but I thought tensions had eased up somewhat. I just hope attitudes improve in time for the Olympics next year.

The people who genuinely feel aggrieved by the white upper classes and police and don't just want to use this current period of tension to grab an iPod would do well to consider the example of the people of Japan and what they've been going through this year.
Almost every advanced country in the world has had its manufacturing job sector decimated by corporate exploitation of labor elsewhere. No jobs have appeared to replace them. The corporations have steadfastly avoided any responsibility for the workforce, the infrastructure, or the communities they used (and dropped). We're running out of working peasants to tax and provide safety net support for the unemployed peasants. The countries with strong social infrastructure have been able to slow or mitigate this... but they're still wounded by this tactic.

And no, I'm not excusing their violent bullshit because it only hurts the people in the community they are wrecking... but its emotional outraged response to this system. That's why a wise aristocracy keeps the peasants *relatively* satisfied and busy.
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Old 2011-08-09, 00:24   Link #15548
killer3000ad
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Look at this scum


Sony distribution center in flames
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Last edited by killer3000ad; 2011-08-09 at 01:19.
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Old 2011-08-09, 00:27   Link #15549
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Almost every advanced country in the world has had its manufacturing job sector decimated by corporate exploitation of labor elsewhere. No jobs have appeared to replace them. The corporations have steadfastly avoided any responsibility for the workforce, the infrastructure, or the communities they used (and dropped). We're running out of working peasants to tax and provide safety net support for the unemployed peasants. The countries with strong social infrastructure have been able to slow or mitigate this... but they're still wounded by this tactic.

And no, I'm not excusing their violent bullshit because it only hurts the people in the community they are wrecking... but its emotional outraged response to this system. That's why a wise aristocracy keeps the peasants *relatively* satisfied and busy.
There still shines the most important nuance by virtue of which the noble felt themselves to be men of a higher rank. They designate themselves simply by their superiority in power (as "the powerful," "the masters," "the commanders") or by the most clearly visible signs of this superiority, for example, as "the rich," "the possessors" (this is the meaning of 'Arya,' and of corresponding words in Iranian and Slavic). - Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals

Sometimes I think it's these days of planet earth that make me think there was a point in me taking that class on Nietzsche in the middle of the night.
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Old 2011-08-09, 00:54   Link #15550
Mr Hat and Clogs
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I don't really see a country collapsing this day and age. The world is too interconnected, more so then it was even 30 years ago.

When was the last time a country was obliterated? The Soviet Union? That was more an empire then one nation though.

I'd be all for a global government, doubt it'll happen in our lifetimes though!

I hate how corporations take jobs off shore and focus only on the bottom line. Makes it quite hard to find work that doesn't suck.
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Old 2011-08-09, 01:38   Link #15551
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
Honestly, I have been in for a one world Republic for years now. If every nation became nothing but a member state, war would not be necessary. Be-foe that can happen, we have to be able to reach other planets efficiently. Rape other planets, not our own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post

I'd be all for a global government, doubt it'll happen in our lifetimes though!
America will not become part of one World Government in my lifetime. I can guarantee that.

More great news for the economies around the world(including the U.S.)... [/sarcasm] We're in for a long decade. This economic slide was a long time coming, and it won't go away anytime soon.

Spoiler for Asian stocks tumble after Wall Street Rout:


http://news.yahoo.com/asian-stocks-t...020916446.html
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Old 2011-08-09, 02:20   Link #15552
synaesthetic
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Oh, normal people have been screwed for years now. Things really can't screw up too much more for us.

But now finally those assholes at the top get to feel the pinch. Those "too big to fail" banks are going to get something a little "too big to fit" right up their back doors.

Relevant IM conversation snippet:

Quote:
(12:14:55 AM) syn010110: Next step: anthropomorphize the major financial institutions into moe bishonen type characters ala Hetalia
(12:15:03 AM) syn010110: And then... do the math!
(12:15:20 AM) l*******3: . . . . all right, I'm in, here's my wallet.
(12:15:23 AM) syn010110: ROFL
(12:16:58 AM) l*******3: Christ WHY IS THERE NOT AN ONLINE COM FOR THIS
(12:17:39 AM) syn010110: (12:17:28 AM) syn010110: Citi and BofA are the uke. Standard and Poor are the seme.

(12:18:29 AM) l*******3: SOMEONE DRAW THIS
(12:18:30 AM) l*******3: NOW
(12:18:34 AM) l*******3: I HAVE A PAYPAL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
(12:19:08 AM) l*******3: He said
(12:19:14 AM) l*******3: "Fannie Mae is a slut"
(12:19:15 AM) l*******3: So I asked
(12:19:23 AM) l*******3: "If she gets it on with Freddie Mac, would that be wincest?"
(12:19:27 AM) l*******3: annnnd he left the room again.
(12:20:38 AM) syn010110: LOL
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Old 2011-08-09, 02:33   Link #15553
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Is it primarily minority youths or is it white and black? I ask because while I know that Britain has a fair population of minorities, I was under the impression that poverty over there is not as strictly cut across racial lines as it is (or is percieved to be) here in the US.
Like DonQuigleone said, it depends on which area of London we're talking about. My area, for instance, is full of people of African ethnicity but last night, when I was watching the kids on the street, there were nearly just as many white people so it really doesn't matter. What does matter is that these kids pretend to be fighting for a cause, justified or not, and use the opportunity to start stealing, mugging and burning everything in sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post
When I talk to him after he gets back to the States, I wanted to ask if perhaps the UK is a place he'd want to escape to if things go to hell here...but I don't think I will now...
Please, the UK isn't all that different from the US, particularly when it comes to finding work, not to mention the overpriced education system. Canada's the place to escape to iibh

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post
The people who genuinely feel aggrieved by the white upper classes and police and don't just want to use this current period of tension to grab an iPod would do well to consider the example of the people of Japan and what they've been going through this year.
I was just thinking that last night when I was watching those kids trying to break in the antique shop. Japan's been hit by one of the biggest disasters of the decade, both present and previous, and we have seen no protests, looting, or hardly any crime at all that was above the norm. They stood for each other. Here, instead, we displayed the exact opposite behavior. We weren't suffering, we didn't experience a disaster, and people are taking advantage of the situation to destroy whatever they can.
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Old 2011-08-09, 02:38   Link #15554
Yu Ominae
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Got some news...

Quote:
With the police appearing to lose control of parts of London, many people used the social network site Twitter to demand that officers be allowed to use the weapon.

An early supporter of the tactic was Ken Livingstone, the former London mayor, who said he agreed that police should allowed to start using the cannon to disperse rioters. He said: “The issue of water cannon would be very useful given the level of arson we are seeing here.”

The devices have been used to control mobs in Northern Ireland but senior police officers have never used them on the mainland.

The high-pressure spray is one of several anti-riot weapons, including rubber bullets and tear gas, regularly used in other countries.

There is also the option of sending in the military if the police fail to regain control of the streets.

A curfew could also be introduced to force people to stay in their homes. Patrick Mercer, the Tory MP and former Army officer, last night called for water cannon to be used.

“I find it strange that we are willing to use these sort of measures against the Irish yet when Englishmen step out of line and behave in this atrocious and appalling way, we are happy to mollycoddle them,” he said. “If the police want cannon then they should be allowed to use them. I have used water cannon myself and I found them extremely effective.”

John O’Connor, a former Flying Squad commander at Scotland Yard, said that in “some cases” water cannon use was necessary. Aaron Peters wrote on Twitter: “With civil disorder this big and diffuse the police can basically do very little with or without water cannon.”

The Home Secretary faced similar calls last year following the violent student protests.

Initially she appeared to open the way for their use when she said it was right to look at “all options” and that using them would be a police “operational” decision.

But within 24 hours, she backtracked and told MPs: “I don’t think anybody wants to see water cannon used on the streets of Britain because we have a different attitude to the culture of policing here. We police by consent and it depends on that trust between the police and the public.”

The Home Office last night insisted that there were no plans to approve the use of water cannon.

“Water cannon are not approved for use on the mainland by the Home Office,” a spokesman said. “A range of measures is available to the police to tackle disorder and we do not believe water cannon are needed.”

A Scotland Yard spokesman said officers did not have any water cannon. If their use was approved, they would have to be brought over from Northern Ireland.
For reference.

Read another one and said that the police's reluctance to use deadly force may be due to fear of getting prosecuted.
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Old 2011-08-09, 02:41   Link #15555
Sugetsu
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To think that this market panic seems to have started thanks to that small extremist faction in the house called the tea party =(
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Old 2011-08-09, 02:47   Link #15556
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
Got some news...

For reference.

Read another one and said that the police's reluctance to use deadly force may be due to fear of getting prosecuted.
So they don't want to stop these delinquents (and using that term is me being kind to them) from destroying shops, businesses, disrupt people's livelihood, because they don't want to get prosecuted? These kids are already criminals. They need to know the kind of suffering they're inflicting on others, and the fact that they're poor and have nothing is no excuse.
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Old 2011-08-09, 03:00   Link #15557
Jinto
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For over a decade it was good old tradition for anti-authoritarian extremists to riot in a certain area of Berlin (Kreuzberg) every May 1st. The police's water cannons proved to be a very effective riot supression device.

I think Theresa May got the de-escalation tactics a little bit wrong. If it makes the situation escalate and spread like this, then its not a good de-escalation tactic...
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Old 2011-08-09, 03:02   Link #15558
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Almost every advanced country in the world has had its manufacturing job sector decimated by corporate exploitation of labor elsewhere. No jobs have appeared to replace them. The corporations have steadfastly avoided any responsibility for the workforce, the infrastructure, or the communities they used (and dropped). We're running out of working peasants to tax and provide safety net support for the unemployed peasants. The countries with strong social infrastructure have been able to slow or mitigate this... but they're still wounded by this tactic.

And no, I'm not excusing their violent bullshit because it only hurts the people in the community they are wrecking... but its emotional outraged response to this system. That's why a wise aristocracy keeps the peasants *relatively* satisfied and busy.
Agreed. The manufacturing sector, regardless of the low or high end products it produces, is always the one sector that provides tons of jobs for the masses. Taking it overseas would mean that these corporations will have to take their businesses overseas sooner or later as social structure breaks down from all that "outsourcing".

I am still waiting for China to implode - they have been buying US bonds to keep the yuan low, and that is going to come back to hurt them when the US treasury screws up their bond system. Hyperinflation, or even stagflation, is going to kill alot of people in SEA and China.

And I am speaking literally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
America will not become part of one World Government in my lifetime. I can guarantee that.

More great news for the economies around the world(including the U.S.)... [/sarcasm] We're in for a long decade. This economic slide was a long time coming, and it won't go away anytime soon.

Spoiler for Asian stocks tumble after Wall Street Rout:


http://news.yahoo.com/asian-stocks-t...020916446.html
If we go by seasonal trading, July and August are often the worst months of the year. But this certainly takes the cake.

I am waiting for September. Buy a few things, then dump them after the Santa Claus rally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Oh, normal people have been screwed for years now. Things really can't screw up too much more for us.

But now finally those assholes at the top get to feel the pinch. Those "too big to fail" banks are going to get something a little "too big to fit" right up their back doors.

Relevant IM conversation snippet:
Although I am working towards to being a trader, I am one who believes that "financial products" are nothing more than pieces of paper printed to cheat the graying owners of big businesses of their money.

It is supposed to work like a natural predator to keep infinite wealth away from the hands of Big Corp. But when the "manufacturers" of these "financial products" screw around with the middle-income population with dreams of "get rich quick" so as to "maximise profits", it becomes a dangerous precedent to break down society - people without money aren't suppose to trade the stock market until they have built up their own capitals; I find it ridiculous that the banks are offering them "margin" on the money they can't earn.

What is even more ridiculous is, the "margin" is made up of money these "people without money" deposited into their bank accounts. So technically speaking, it is like lending someone his own money so he can invest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
So they don't want to stop these delinquents (and using that term is me being kind to them) from destroying shops, businesses, disrupt people's livelihood, because they don't want to get prosecuted? These kids are already criminals. They need to know the kind of suffering they're inflicting on others, and the fact that they're poor and have nothing is no excuse.
Relief them of their pain. Shoot them. *sarcastic*
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2011-08-09 at 03:27.
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Old 2011-08-09, 04:40   Link #15559
Haak
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Age: 23
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248

I can't believe this shit is still going on. It's just baffling how retarded these rioters are.
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Old 2011-08-09, 05:05   Link #15560
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248

I can't believe this shit is still going on. It's just baffling how retarded these rioters are.
They're no longer fighting for a cause. They're just trying to prove who'se got more muscle. It's criminals vs police, and Mark Duggan's death was a good excuse. One would think they're trying to fight for change, but this is not how you do it. They're just proving that the police has every right to subdue them.
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