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Old 2011-08-08, 16:43   Link #861
FlavorOfLife
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Other than those overly sensitive to genders, its already pretty obvious FemShep is very different from ManShep. Take a poll on who does Shepard better (bioware's forums have already done this several times). You'll get a common one where people feel ManShep does Renegade better while FemShep does Paragon better. Same dialogue, absolutely different feeling. I felt this most strongly during Samara's sidequest with FemShep sounding much more empathic (oh dear i'm differentiating male and female when humans only come in 1 gender to some people ).

Personally i don't mind if FemShep has different dialogue. It would have helped in the final speech before the last boss in ME2 since FemShep didn't sound too good there.
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Old 2011-08-08, 17:13   Link #862
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Heh, I don't give a damn if femshep's a soldier or not. Males and females do act/talk differently. It's only about how much. We're not robots with a male/female personality switch, the difference is within our genes.

They could have at least altered a few lines, ya know (outside of romance specifics). Or a few NPC reactions at least, some were pretty hillarious, to be honest. Problem is, in Bioware's case...it really is laziness; there is no "how much", there is only "not at all".

Just thinking about Dragon Age 2; some of the companions seemed like a shameless copy/paste. Merrill felt like a rushed Tali clone that's more about blabbering than badass action. Fenris? Oh I don't know...Garrus wannabe? At least they tried with ME and DA1. The only companion I really liked in DA2 was Varric, that's just sad.

Well, they improved the cameras and lighting for most of the dialogues in ME2, that was a huge improvement over the first game. Though the constant Miranda-cam perverseness was sickeningly stupid. At least they were subtler with Tali.

It was said here that changing the dialogues too much would force the player into a gender choice. I don't understand that statement. You can't anticipate what changes there are for each gender in dialogues. If anything, it adds replay value, because if the difference was noticeable, people would be curious enough to play the game again. I mean, they already do that for romances' sake. Why not give them some small bits of new unexplored content in terms of dialogue changes based on gender choice for their second playthrough? That way, you wouldn't want to skip half the conversations just because they're the same old (excluding the paragon/renegade actions)...
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Old 2011-08-08, 17:59   Link #863
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Probably, but they'd whine if Shepard gets different dialog based on gender as well. If it's the world that treats Shepard differently, then they both keep the "player decides who Shepard is" element and the extra replay value for playing both genders.
Agreed. I'm not pointing that out to say it's a bad idea (from a game quality standpoint), it's more a criticism of overly-sensitive audiences and how they limit what games can do.
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Old 2011-08-08, 19:19   Link #864
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Just thinking about Dragon Age 2; some of the companions seemed like a shameless copy/paste. Merrill felt like a rushed Tali clone that's more about blabbering than badass action. Fenris? Oh I don't know...Garrus wannabe? At least they tried with ME and DA1. The only companion I really liked in DA2 was Varric, that's just sad.
Merrill (oh how I loathe thee) and Tali don't resemble eachother at all, and neither do Fenris and Garrus, really. Even the darker ME2 Garrus is still a very different character from Fenris.
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Old 2011-08-08, 19:52   Link #865
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Amusingly enough, gameplay-wise Tali is a complete fail in both ME titles (though she's much better in ME1) while Merrill is an overpowered engine of badassery with her special Blood Mage tree, Wrath of the Elvhen fully upgraded and tons of +blood magic items.
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Old 2011-08-08, 20:23   Link #866
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Amusingly enough, gameplay-wise Tali is a complete fail in both ME titles (though she's much better in ME1) while Merrill is an overpowered engine of badassery with her special Blood Mage tree, Wrath of the Elvhen fully upgraded and tons of +blood magic items.
take tali and legion on both of their loyalty missions and see how easy they are with two tech's i breezed through it
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Old 2011-08-08, 20:56   Link #867
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Tali and her little droid rips apart anything that's a machine. She's completely OP against synths. Legion OTOH with the Widowmaker kills EVERYTHING within sniper sight.
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Old 2011-08-09, 05:34   Link #868
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On the subject of Tali, I never liked her, and really every time I talked to her my empathy for the Quarian race as a whole dropped another notch. Oh, so you created the Geth? Okay, wasn't that illegal? Oh, they were low level intelligence. Wait, you were surprised when they evolved? And now that they were sentient creatures you decided the best course of action was utter genocide? And now you are angry at them after they defended their own lives and chucked you off your world? And now that they've pretty much spared your lives after you tried to commit genocide you still want to exterminate them all?

Koris was the only voice of reason on that entire Flotila.
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Old 2011-08-09, 07:01   Link #869
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
On the subject of Tali, I never liked her, and really every time I talked to her my empathy for the Quarian race as a whole dropped another notch. Oh, so you created the Geth? Okay, wasn't that illegal? Oh, they were low level intelligence. Wait, you were surprised when they evolved? And now that they were sentient creatures you decided the best course of action was utter genocide? And now you are angry at them after they defended their own lives and chucked you off your world? And now that they've pretty much spared your lives after you tried to commit genocide you still want to exterminate them all?

Koris was the only voice of reason on that entire Flotila.
Tali =/= the rest of her race.... she doesnt really care which way it happens she just wants to be able to live outside the suit.
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Old 2011-08-09, 07:05   Link #870
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Aside from Koris, maybe Tali's aunt, any Quarian I talked to went the "Geth are evil!" routine. Legion even says as much, the moment the Quarians think they can win a fight against the Geth, they attack. Always.

So yeah, never really cared about the Quarians much.
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Old 2011-08-09, 07:07   Link #871
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Guess we all dislike a certain race, Me? Asari, You? Quarians, Nobody? Krogans.
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Old 2011-08-09, 07:39   Link #872
Keroko
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I'm a Turian person myself. I'd love to learn more about Turians. See their fleets, experience their command structures.
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Old 2011-08-09, 08:10   Link #873
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Aside from Koris, maybe Tali's aunt, any Quarian I talked to went the "Geth are evil!" routine. Legion even says as much, the moment the Quarians think they can win a fight against the Geth, they attack. Always.

So yeah, never really cared about the Quarians much.
Don't get me wrong, if there ever is a time when I have to choose a side, I would choose the Geth over the Quarians any day of the week. But Tali still loves my male Shepard and would risk everything she has for him, even the respect of her own people. That has to mean something.

So yeah, the Quarians have victimised themselves far too much, that is true. But still, I want a peace-deal because Quarians don't deserve to die out no matter how bitchy they are.

And I hate to see Tali cry.
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Old 2011-08-09, 08:12   Link #874
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I never really cared for Quarians either. They are all pretty boring to me, including Tali *activates flame hardeners* and for the reason Kero said.

Otherwise, Turian and Krogan fanboy, reporting in. Turians for their aesthetics, military and general design, Krogans because there are no race as funny and badass as them.
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Old 2011-08-09, 08:19   Link #875
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I want peace between the Quarians and the Geth not for the Quarians sake, but because we have an incoming Reaper invasion and the Quarians have the biggest fleet in the galaxy. That strikes me as "could be very useful when the fighting breaks out."

Which reminds me, I wonder what happens to people who went full-blown renegade. Killed the Ragni queen, destroyed the Geth, didn't help the Krogan recover with the half-finished cure, etc. etc. the galaxy is in a pretty shitty state if you go full renegade.
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Old 2011-08-09, 08:35   Link #876
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Turian, Krogan, Drell and Geth for me, I love Legion too much he's like a a little mascot for the team, Turian well when you have an entire race full of Batmans its pretty hard not to love them. And who can't love, "That headbutt hurt...you have earned a place upon our nobility" Krogans, seriously any race whose superiority lies solely in who can headbutt harder is awesome. The Drell well Thane was interesting to me, so I want to see more from the Drell.

Asari seem really boring with their whole enlightened thing, Volus is basically a merchant race and [BORED REPRIMAND] Elcor are the worst alien race ever, look more like pointless ugly statues than sentient life.
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Old 2011-08-09, 08:49   Link #877
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Volus is basically a merchant race and [BORED REPRIMAND] Elcor are the worst alien race ever, look more like pointless ugly statues than sentient life.
I actually LOVE the Elcor despite their limited appearance in the game.
Mostly because the first Elcor I met was at the embassy, who defended humanity against the insults of the Volus diplomat.

There aren't many races willing to defend human's place in the world. So that Volus left a good impression on me.
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Old 2011-08-09, 10:58   Link #878
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Oh, yeah the topic changed!

I liked Turians and Geth( Legion will always be on my team). Quarians are ok, but I too don't understand why are people so obsessed with Tali. I think if we got a choice to romance Tali in ME1 , there would be much less hype than it is now. Everything else - I don't know, I haven't looked much into other races.
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Old 2011-08-09, 11:04   Link #879
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Where's the love for Salarians? They're a funny bunch too.

Mordin was an exceptional addition to the team.

Can't forget about Volus either.


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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Merrill (oh how I loathe thee) and Tali don't resemble eachother at all.
Well, I don't know...her clumsy speeches resembled Tali's flirty behaviour a little too much in my eyes. But I'll leave it at that. You gave a different opinion, I'll go think about it for a while before saying any more about the topic.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
On the subject of Tali, I never liked her, and really every time I talked to her my empathy for the Quarian race as a whole dropped another notch. Oh, so you created the Geth? Okay, wasn't that illegal? Oh, they were low level intelligence. Wait, you were surprised when they evolved? And now that they were sentient creatures you decided the best course of action was utter genocide? And now you are angry at them after they defended their own lives and chucked you off your world? And now that they've pretty much spared your lives after you tried to commit genocide you still want to exterminate them all?

Koris was the only voice of reason on that entire Flotila.
Even though I agree the Quarians' decisions were amazingly poor and led to an almost complete annihilation of said race, hating them for this is like hating humanity itself. I don't believe we'd act any different in that kind of situation. Those that would warn us of the consequences in the long run would be marked as paranoid and corporations would lead us along the same path Quarians walked in ME. Even the human-centric Cerberus installed an AI on the second Normandy AFTER the whole Geth "incident". Countermeasures or not, the further development of this tech couldn't be predicted in any way, especially not when we're talking about Cerberus and their work ethics.

Food for thought from the other side of the issue - While the tech was illegal, EDI helped Shepard and his crew enough to be considered a valuable member of the team (even saving Shep from the collector vessel, whose second death would mean the end of all races (not going to consider him dying in ME2 and being replaced by another Shepard in ME3 as canon)). What does that make of the whole AI legal/illegal issue in the ME universe and what kind of shadow does it cast on Quarians for creating the Geth then?

But hey, let's find out ourselves, AI development is starting to bloom, give it a few generations and see how we behave.
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Old 2011-08-09, 11:39   Link #880
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Food for thought from the other side of the issue - While the tech was illegal, EDI helped Shepard and his crew enough to be considered a valuable member of the team (even saving Shep from the collector vessel, whose second death would mean the end of all races (not going to consider him dying in ME2 and being replaced by another Shepard in ME3 as canon)). What does that make of the whole AI legal/illegal issue in the ME universe and what kind of shadow does it cast on Quarians for creating the Geth then?

But hey, let's find out ourselves, AI development is starting to bloom, give it a few generations and see how we behave.
I have no problem with the Quarians creating the Geth; yes, it was illegal, but the law itself was stupid to begin with. The Quarians made their major mistake when they tried to wipe out the Geth in a panic.

Let's make it clear; the Geth have the right to exist as sentient beings. The ban on the construction of AI as it stands makes Geth illegal. This means something must give; either the law is changed, or the Council races wage war against an opponent who do not wish them harm much like what the Quarians did.

My Shepard would never allow the Geth race to be wiped out, so that is that. The law will change.

Don't forget that the Council see fit to break their own laws out of convenience. The Medigel is technically a grave violation of genetic modification laws according to the in-game description. But the galactic society as a whole needed it so everyone turn a blind eye. So what is legal or not matters very little.

(In other news, I just installed ME2 for the first time as well as all mission-related DLCs. But it would be a while before I got my "perfect Shepard" to import from ME1. Hence it would just sit in my harddrive for now)


EDIT 2: I just had a bizarre thought... We know that the Geth are immune from Indoctrination, and could only be controlled via virus insertion. Perhaps the Reapers intentionally influenced galactic society into hating machines to prevent the widespread existence of AIs?
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