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Old 2011-07-24, 05:15   Link #1741
Kylaran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
No. It's just you looking at things from an western POV where such things are more acceptable. Porn Stars are very much respected in America from what I've read, they get job welfare and healthcare like anyone else. Not so in Japan.
Er, it's just that I've never met a non-otaku Japanese guy who really cares about something like that. The only guys I know that complain about this stuff are my friends from the otaku circle I was in when I was studying abroad. I feel like you're kinda just assuming that Japanese people are less okay with it, when I don't really know if it's that different from America.

Also, think about what you just said. "Porn Stars are very much respected in America." Do you really think American parents would be MORE accepting of their son bringing home a porn actress than Japanese parents?

Quote:
Actually I didn't try to claim otherwise. I was making my remark based on the condition that said AV stars wants to work for a major international corporation (not necessarily a white colar job though).
Yeah, I jumped into the thread halfway through so I'm probably making myself look dumb taking you all on at the same time argument-wise :P

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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
It's not really what I know about Japan: I was in high school in Kyoto, and attended Todai for 1.5 years before transferring to Yonsei in Korea. Moreover, I was rebutting MakubeX2's comment on how 20 seemed to be the prime of a girl's life.

Oh, and I was once approached by a scout. Kicked him in the shins after he continued trying to recruit me after I told him I was a lesbian.
Well, it sounded like you were kinda just guessing at the age for adult goods, so I thought you were just makin' things out to be what you assumed they were without background. Sorry about that.


Quote:
My main focus was on why there are so many willing. There are of course individuals who have diverse backgrounds, like Shino Megumi (a girl who I wish hadn't appeared on straight JAVs, those heavenly thighs and hips......) who deliberately was in the JAV industry for two years as an independent, and is now continuing her studies in university, and I would not label every JAV actress as some foolish girl looking for some quick and easy cash. However, one has to admit that the continuing crisis in the job market is one major factor in the increasing numbers of new recruits, and that was my main point.


Finally, Japan's "tradition" has been outward conservationism and inward liberalism when it comes to sex. That's something most seem to not realize, and try to lump Japan with the real conservative Korea.
Yes, I'd say Korea's a lot more conservative than Japan, but I'm no expert on Asia. I'm sure you yourself would know best about that. Still, where are you guys pulling out these "increasing numbers" from? Where are the hard statistics?

One thing I found hilarious about Japanese people is that they were quite well aware of the amount of sexuality in their culture, from love hotels to adult manga lining the bookshelves of stores easily accessed from the street. Some of the funnier ones had no qualms asking and making fun of the perception that some foreigners had of Japanese people being "perverts"; I wonder if this is just related to some willingness to come to terms with their huge pornography industry.
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Old 2011-07-24, 06:49   Link #1742
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylaran View Post
Er, it's just that I've never met a non-otaku Japanese guy who really cares about something like that. The only guys I know that complain about this stuff are my friends from the otaku circle I was in when I was studying abroad. I feel like you're kinda just assuming that Japanese people are less okay with it, when I don't really know if it's that different from America.

Also, think about what you just said. "Porn Stars are very much respected in America." Do you really think American parents would be MORE accepting of their son bringing home a porn actress than Japanese parents?
In America, Porn Stars actually gets an union of sorts where they have a say in what they are willing to do, they get more respect and have actual pride in their job in which some stay around for years. They act under an alias, but are fine with revealing their birth name. Some even have eductional degree. That's according to this Book.

In Japan, due to the number of willing parties, the companies and producer have the final say in what the starlets do on screen. The starlets have to hide behind an alias. And they have a sales target to meet each month. If they do not meet the projected target, they will be forced to do more outrageous act onscreen until the end of their contract.

Quote:
Still, where are you guys pulling out these "increasing numbers" from? Where are the hard statistics?
Book released by the notable Chinese Taiwan Blogger 一劍浣春秋 of "AVNO1". He has insights into the industry and had been around for a few years. I can't project a direct link to the Blog obviously. Everything I've said so far are base on his comments in the book.
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Old 2011-07-24, 07:13   Link #1743
Kylaran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
In Japan, due to the number of willing parties, the companies and producer have the final say in what the starlets do on screen. The starlets have to hide behind an alias. And they have a sales target to meet each month. If they do not meet the projected target, they will be forced to do more outrageous act onscreen until the end of their contract.
Last time I checked working in Japan meant letting your life get controlled by the company. It's slowly starting to change, but the corporations are still strong. It's not just the AV industry I'd bet where people are driven to desperation to keep working.

[Edit]And this is coming from a guy who wants to work there while he's young and can take it.
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Old 2011-07-24, 07:50   Link #1744
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"Last time I checked working in Japan meant letting your life get controlled by the company. It's slowly starting to change, but the corporations are still strong. It's not just the AV industry I'd bet where people are driven to desperation to keep working.
"

I think it has something to do especially with their willpower to be allways kind to others and work as much as you can (money won't pop-up from nowhere) so.... kinda like an robot whose programmed to be perfect, result = being perfect.
You never get to see what's happening behind the scenes but for these people, as i said, the result have to be perfect. So they don't care for someone's emotional state. I guess there's many pressure behind the work, as a country where the demand for products is very high.


Question 'bout the catthingy:
Because they are... cute? =P In Japan are tomboyish girls rare... cuteness is more popular. So its more cute to act like a cat or something like that xD
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Old 2011-07-24, 13:51   Link #1745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylaran View Post
Yes, I'd say Korea's a lot more conservative than Japan, but I'm no expert on Asia. I'm sure you yourself would know best about that. Still, where are you guys pulling out these "increasing numbers" from? Where are the hard statistics?
Don't ask me. I'm just offering possible explanations for what someone else brought up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylaran View Post
One thing I found hilarious about Japanese people is that they were quite well aware of the amount of sexuality in their culture, from love hotels to adult manga lining the bookshelves of stores easily accessed from the street. Some of the funnier ones had no qualms asking and making fun of the perception that some foreigners had of Japanese people being "perverts"; I wonder if this is just related to some willingness to come to terms with their huge pornography industry.
Not sure which part you found hilarious. Something seems missing from that statement.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reikokuna View Post
Question 'bout the catthingy:
Because they are... cute? =P In Japan are tomboyish girls rare... cuteness is more popular. So its more cute to act like a cat or something like that xD
Nyan? (What?)
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Old 2011-07-24, 13:56   Link #1746
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Well, this is quite the discussion going on...
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Old 2011-07-24, 16:51   Link #1747
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Not sure which part you found hilarious. Something seems missing from that statement.....
I note you place yourself in British Columbia... if you've never been down to the US.... there's an atmospheric change crossing the border in the "Land of Puritanism" where the people call other lands perverted but harbor all sorts of closet perversions in the garbage of their minds"

My family always finds Vancouver/Victoria a breath of fresh air in comparison to "righteous think-of-the-children harumphing while they sneak a girly mag in their briefcase" hypocrisy in the many parts of the US (and I compare this to other west coast cities like Seattle, Portland, SF, or Los Angeles).

Japan is open in many ways... yet very very conservative in other ways -- but that is mapping western values onto it (which can lead to errors in analysis on occasion).
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Old 2011-07-24, 19:10   Link #1748
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I note you place yourself in British Columbia... if you've never been down to the US.... there's an atmospheric change crossing the border in the "Land of Puritanism" where the people call other lands perverted but harbor all sorts of closet perversions in the garbage of their minds"

My family always finds Vancouver/Victoria a breath of fresh air in comparison to "righteous think-of-the-children harumphing while they sneak a girly mag in their briefcase" hypocrisy in the many parts of the US (and I compare this to other west coast cities like Seattle, Portland, SF, or Los Angeles).

Japan is open in many ways... yet very very conservative in other ways -- but that is mapping western values onto it (which can lead to errors in analysis on occasion).
Oh.... the US. Well, I grew up in the US, so I would know

Born in Tokyo, lived in Australia/Korea for preschool, elementary in Illinois, junior high in Korea, high school in Japan, uni in Japan/Korea, working in Canada.
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Old 2011-07-25, 15:17   Link #1749
Endless Soul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Oh.... the US. Well, I grew up in the US, so I would know

Born in Tokyo, lived in Australia/Korea for preschool, elementary in Illinois, junior high in Korea, high school in Japan, uni in Japan/Korea, working in Canada.
I amazed you can keep track of all those moves. I'd be lost after the third or fourth move.
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Old 2011-07-25, 17:48   Link #1750
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylaran View Post
Yes, I'd say Korea's a lot more conservative than Japan, but I'm no expert on Asia. I'm sure you yourself would know best about that. Still, where are you guys pulling out these "increasing numbers" from? Where are the hard statistics?

One thing I found hilarious about Japanese people is that they were quite well aware of the amount of sexuality in their culture, from love hotels to adult manga lining the bookshelves of stores easily accessed from the street. Some of the funnier ones had no qualms asking and making fun of the perception that some foreigners had of Japanese people being "perverts"; I wonder if this is just related to some willingness to come to terms with their huge pornography industry.
I am not sure if Korea is really conservative anymore after watching 16-18 years dancing half naked on tv. Though Korea does have large population of overzealous Christians so I guess it evens out somewhat.

Aslo that applies to the American. The media is mostly focused on sex and violence, which people love to watch. But in society everyone is against it. Then again dichotomy existed in the US for a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Oh.... the US. Well, I grew up in the US, so I would know

Born in Tokyo, lived in Australia/Korea for preschool, elementary in Illinois, junior high in Korea, high school in Japan, uni in Japan/Korea, working in Canada.
Damn I am impressed, must have been very tough. I mean moving from Korea to US was very tough from me, but compare to you my experience seems like nothing. Any discrimination from Korean or Japanese side? I would imagine in pre-school in Korea would warrant some insult from the kids.
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Old 2011-07-28, 06:58   Link #1751
SeijiSensei
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Young Japanese artist collective draws inspiration from Fukushima

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...tomic-artists/

(Warning: site is incredibly slow this morning.)
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Old 2011-07-30, 23:02   Link #1752
NoemiChan
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Question, anime reflects some of Japanese culture, right? Then, why is that I often see (and read) this lines in some anime, ecchi or none ecchi that is "Do this and that's" even in highschool level students, and see actions in H animes. No offence, are the Japanese highschoolers (not all) already involved with these adult behaviors???
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Old 2011-07-30, 23:47   Link #1753
Sumeragi
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If I remember my studies correctly, when taking out the virgins, the average age for first time in the Kanto region is around 15.7 years old nowadays, which I don't find surprising. However, I really don't see the connection between your question and the basis of that question: Aren't most North Americans and Europeans like that also?
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:14   Link #1754
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Aren't most North Americans and Europeans like that also?
Well, I'm Asian, Filipino to be exact.
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:23   Link #1755
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by genjichan View Post
Well, I'm Asian, Filipino to be exact.
More of a statement that most of the so-called "First World" is about the same as Japan in that particular realm. I usually don't get all the "Japan is hentai country!" sentiments that comes up occasionally.
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Old 2011-07-31, 00:51   Link #1756
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genjichan View Post
Question, anime reflects some of Japanese culture, right? Then, why is that I often see (and read) this lines in some anime, ecchi or none ecchi that is "Do this and that's" even in highschool level students, and see actions in H animes. No offence, are the Japanese highschoolers (not all) already involved with these adult behaviors???
As are teenagers around the planet (even if the society denies its existence). Teenagers have been *adults* throughout most of human history, led wars, married off, had families. The recent "childification" has more roots in the need to extend their educational period so they can compete effectively. The rest of the harumphing is mental nonsense and a poor grasp of history by a diverse group ranging from "soccer moms" to obnxious village elders. Joan of Arc was 17 when she led armies, Alexander the Great was 23 when he ruled the known world in Europe/Asia. George Washington was already a senior officer by age 22.

Most of history, women generally married at 13/14, men perhaps 15/16 (after an apprenticeship). Sex has always happened with or without marriage -- regardless of how sinful or not any society labels it.

Teenagers are a diverse group just like the adults are.
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Old 2011-07-31, 08:52   Link #1757
Kylaran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genjichan View Post
Question, anime reflects some of Japanese culture, right? Then, why is that I often see (and read) this lines in some anime, ecchi or none ecchi that is "Do this and that's" even in highschool level students, and see actions in H animes. No offence, are the Japanese highschoolers (not all) already involved with these adult behaviors???
Anime do reflect Japanese culture in general, but you also must keep in mind that a lot of late night anime are targeted and sometimes outright pander to an otaku crowd. I doubt Japan's average age of first sexual experience is much different from that of the West, but the otaku who are watch late night anime are known for their... well, lack of getting it on. Perhaps it's a stereotype, but you can also see otaku rage when they find out that a character from some series is not a virgin. To some hardcore anime fans, a girl's desirability lies in her youth and purity.

I think ero anime with high school age children are just the flip side of the coin; although, they're not necessarily marketed to the same crowd. You put it well when you said "anime reflects some of Japanese culture"; our job is just to make sure that we don't over zealously associate images with some underlying cultural value.
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Old 2011-07-31, 15:25   Link #1758
SeijiSensei
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
However, I really don't see the connection between your question and the basis of that question: Aren't most North Americans and Europeans like that also?
The Guttmacher Institute reports that 13% of American teens have had vaginal sex by age 15, though by nineteen the rate reaches 70% for both genders.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-ATSRH.html

A 2005 report by the Kaiser Family Foundation puts the median age of first intercourse at around 17.

http://www.kff.org/youthhivstds/uplo...Fact-Sheet.pdf
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Old 2011-08-09, 13:37   Link #1759
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Interview with a manga-ka and his young Chinese wife.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0110809mm.html
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Old 2011-08-09, 13:42   Link #1760
Guernsey
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Speaking of Chinese, I wonder if Chinese and Japanese are friendly terms nowadays?
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