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Old 2004-11-05, 16:58   Link #61
Meow
So Who Is On Top ?
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by MwyC
lots of figurative language, tower of babel was the actual concept of being equal to God, psalms were pretty much poems written by kings, etc, etc
The stars would fall to earth ?

The Great Tribulation & Rapture ?

Judgment Day for all mankind ?

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ ?



“Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.” (Matthew 24:34 TEV)

“For the Son of Man [i.e. Jesus] is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will reward each one according to his deeds. I assure you [i.e. swear to you] that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man [Jesus] come as King.” (Matthew 16: 27, 28 TEV)
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Old 2004-11-05, 17:50   Link #62
TheLaughingMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briareos
If you do some research, you will find that most Muslims and Jews in the middle east do believe that they worship the same God. They just disagree as to whose side God is on, which goes back to the sons of Isaac (Jacob and Esau). The old testament and the qur'an are very similar until that point.
Very good point.

This thread just seems like an attempt to flame christianity. Most people don't care WHAT origin a holiday is based on, christian or pagan. We live in modern times, holidays have different meanings to us. It's your loss if you don't want to make merry on these days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by loveofanime
We celebrate the holiday as the birth of Jesus and we give gifts as the wise men gave to the baby.
Not to burst your bubble, but the wise men didn't show up until a couple of years after the birth of jesus.
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Old 2004-11-06, 01:13   Link #63
MwyC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meow
The stars would fall to earth ?

The Great Tribulation & Rapture ?

Judgment Day for all mankind ?

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ ?



“Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died.” (Matthew 24:34 TEV)

“For the Son of Man [i.e. Jesus] is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will reward each one according to his deeds. I assure you [i.e. swear to you] that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man [Jesus] come as King.” (Matthew 16: 27, 28 TEV)
what is TEV?
btw
in the hebrew, it says that
this generation/race will not pass away until all that has happened

as for the 'some here' i think also that he was referring to the human race
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Old 2004-11-08, 00:18   Link #64
TrueKnight
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Join Date: Jun 2004
*off topic*

-to clear things up-

Christians and Muslims technically worshipped the same God. But to Muslims, they refer Jesus as a prophet, not as the Son of God or God himself. The Muslims called Jesus by the name of Isa Al-masih if I'm not wrong, and for them he's a prophet who managed to came back to live because of God.

*topic*

well, Christians holidays were already commersialized in the past few years, so it;s not a holiday just for Christians anymore, even India, China and Japan celebrates it without even knowing Jesus. I love Christmas because it's the time to spend the time with my family, lover and friends. and well... I'm not a very religous person my self though but I believe it's the birth of Jesus, and I also loved Easter and Thanksgiving. They're da shit. Eggs and Easter Bunnies rules you all.
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Old 2004-11-08, 03:13   Link #65
Umbrae
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First as was pointed out, Muslims, Jews, Christians, and Mormons all worship the same god. They all have differing views on how that worship should be carried out.

The jews were the first, then the christians, then the muslims, finaly the Mormons. Jews reject the Jesus as the son of god, and hold strict adherance to older traditions. The christians think that Jeasus is the son of god, and the conduit between thier physical world and gods spiritual word. Muslims belive Jesus is a profit, but not the last profit, Muhamed beeing more imporant than Jesus, Also they belive that the jews and christans have warped the older works, partialy by translating them to new languages. The Mormons belive jesus is a space alien, that tells us how we all get our own planet when we die. . . well at least that was my interpritation after reading the book of mormon, read it your self if you want. I have not read the Qur'an. . . Mainly because I cannot read Hebrew, although I have read most of the unrecignized english translation.

As far as the hollidays go, I do not think any of the religions has an origional Holliday. If you think X-mas is the day jesus was born your sadly mistaken.

Spoiler:


Which is fitting with the Traditions of Easter

Spoiler:


Basicly all christan hollidays are borrowed from other religions. . . which is not to supprising considering thier religion is just an off shoot of another religion (jewish).

But the origins of hollidays is quite interesting if you care to look them up I would highly encurage it.
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Old 2004-11-08, 03:17   Link #66
???
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As Atheism cures tithing, you’ll get an instant 10% raise in take-home pay.

You’re inoculated against Christian suicide cults like People’s Temple or Heaven’s Gate.

Those "voices in your head" claiming to be God can now be cured with a pill.

Hell becomes as phony as the boogie man.

The celestial “Peeping Tom” who watched as you wiped your ass ceases to exist.

You realize there are no ghosts or goblins- really!

There are not, nor ever have been, any “evil spirits” hiding under your bed at night.

Masturbation now cures more anxiety than causes.

Premarital sex no longer causes “guilt hangovers” the next morning.

You can be honest and really hate those you hate- no more pretend Christian “love”.

You can now sleep in on Sunday mornings.

If born gay, you no longer have to lie to yourself.

Money & hope are not wasted on faith healers.

Families are no longer divided over petty religious squabbles.

You no longer have to stay married to people you’ve grown to hate.

Women don’t have to become “brood mares for Jesus” pumping out those kids.

If Catholic, you can now use condoms to prevent infection & death if your spouse has aids.

Girls can now abort pregnancies caused by drunken fathers or football teams.

If Catholic, you can now intelligently plan your family size via birth control.

If Mormon, you can now drink tea, coffee, and coke.

If Mormon, you can now give & receive oral sex, and trash the goofy magic underwear.

If you were a Fundy, you can now drink a toast with friends at weddings.

If you were a Fundy, you’re now allowed to dance and see movies.

If you were a Liberal, you can now be honest about your Atheism.

When you hit your thumb with a hammer, you can now swear like a sailor.

As science advances, you don't have to “circle the wagons” to defend Biblical cosmology.

If mugged, rather than turn the other cheek, you’re now allowed to fight back.

You can lust as nature intended you to without apologies or self-induced guilt.

You can now be rightfully proud of your accomplishments- no more false humility.

If you were a Fundy woman, you can use makeup & clothing to look stylish & sexy.

You’ll never miss another NFL game due to long winded preachers.

If you’re a Catholic priest, you can now have sex with people other than choir boys.

If you’re a “nun” you can now get “some”.

And you’re now free to think & question without fear of pissing off some insecure deity
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Old 2004-11-10, 04:31   Link #67
genmac
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky
Now those are typical things the churches disagree about.
Only thing I know is, for catholic church, what you wrote is just wrong.
According to Catholic doctrine, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three persons in the same God, all equally God, with Jesus being the only one with a human form.

Quote:
And you’re now free to think & question without fear of pissing off some insecure deity
Questions are encouraged in the Catholic tradition. Trust me, try asking hard questions of any athiest "free thinker", and you'll find huge, unexplained gaps in their beliefs.
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Old 2004-11-10, 08:39   Link #68
Briareos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genmac
Questions are encouraged in the Catholic tradition.
Oh, but if you disagree with their answers they deny you communion or excommunicate you. There's encouragement for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genmac
Trust me, try asking hard questions of any athiest "free thinker", and you'll find huge, unexplained gaps in their beliefs.
For instance?
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Old 2004-11-17, 00:29   Link #69
100demons
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Do I celebrate Christmas? Hell yes. It's just another opportunity for me to get stuff without having to strong arm.
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Old 2004-11-17, 04:07   Link #70
genmac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briareos
Oh, but if you disagree with their answers they deny you communion or excommunicate you. There's encouragement for you.
No they don't, and there are plenty of differing viewpoints within the Church. Excommunication and denying communion are severe punishments that are rarely used. Of course, if you don't believe Catholic doctrine, why would you call yourself a Catholic?

Quote:
For instance?
"If a particle of anti-matter collided with a particle of matter to start the big bang, where did the two particles come from?"
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Old 2004-11-17, 06:43   Link #71
Briareos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genmac
No they don't, and there are plenty of differing viewpoints within the Church. Excommunication and denying communion are severe punishments that are rarely used. Of course, if you don't believe Catholic doctrine, why would you call yourself a Catholic?
I don't. Personally I can't imagine who would want to, but that's just me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genmac
"If a particle of anti-matter collided with a particle of matter to start the big bang, where did the two particles come from?"
To you, the answer is obviously "God did". An atheist would probably look to science for his/her answers. Either way, the question proves nothing.

I do hope you haven't deluded yourself into thinking that you're somehow a "free thinker". Trust me, the church doesn't encourage the hard questions. They just want a chance to indoctrinate you further.
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Old 2004-11-17, 06:54   Link #72
???
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genmac
"If a particle of anti-matter collided with a particle of matter to start the big bang, where did the two particles come from?"
Here's my asnwer: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/...csu/powersof10/

(use IE to see the java animation)

You say that because you live in a small world, that's why
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Old 2004-11-17, 11:49   Link #73
Reaver4k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover
Does any one even celebrate them any more?

The only one I "Celebrate" is X-Mas, and then I dont realy care much for it, All I care about is the two weeks I get off of school. X-mas Pisses me off at times, when they put all the X-Max Specials on TV.... I just.... Hate it.
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Old 2004-11-18, 02:59   Link #74
Umbrae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genmac
"If a particle of anti-matter collided with a particle of matter to start the big bang, where did the two particles come from?"

I guess I will be the honest one. I don't know. Belive it or not, thier are things in this universe that humans will never understand. Weather you belive in god or not, this is the truth. Only if you belive in god, you do not have to ask the question, because the answer is "god did it" although how or why, you will never know, but that is a functional enugh answer. How people accept that as an answer I will never know, as it did not honestly answer the question.
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Old 2004-11-18, 10:44   Link #75
Dhomochevsky
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argh... come on people, you`re getting this all wrong.
Religion (the christian at least) is not about who triggered the big bang, denying science or following some (more or less) stupid habbits.

Its about "what happens to me after I die?".

Thats the central question and still its not to be answered by science (or the answer would be: "braincells dead - youre gone", which is not satisfying for most people).
People fear death, so they prefer to rely on religion to show them an alternative.


All those other things youre arguing about all the time here are only minor topics and are handled differently from place to place. At least I didnt ever meet someone who would try to follow ANY of those points ??? likes to post in every thread whenever this topic comes up again.
Anyway, I wonder where you get your impressions of church from, this all sounds like you read to many books about medieval times... at least where I live, churches (both catholic and protestants) are very liberal.
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Old 2004-11-18, 10:59   Link #76
Mr_Paper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genmac
"If a particle of anti-matter collided with a particle of matter to start the big bang, where did the two particles come from?"
There are many theories pretaining to the big bang and none of the credible ones I know of involve two particles colliding as its source.

The thing you're glossing over is that as "free thinkers" we're free to question, doubt and support the theories we deem credible, reasonable or absurd. The multitude of theories and the gaps between them just go to show the extent to which "free thinkers" ponder these problems. We, those of us that claim to be "free thinkers," must find justifications that require more than a simple three word phrases along the lines of "because he's God" or "we'll never know." These would never be excepted as credible answers by any inquiring mind as they aren't really answers, they're just avoiding the answer and the possibility that such things may actually exist beyond the existance of a God.

By fairplay and turn-about, I must now ask: "How did God create the universe?"

[Note] I'm not sure if you mean "free thinker" as aethist, but I assume you meant it as 'those that choose to question their own beliefs.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky
Anyway, I wonder where you get your impressions of church from, this all sounds like you read to many books about medieval times... at least where I live, churches (both catholic and protestants) are very liberal.
I have nothing against the Church, I've been to some really good ones (not only architectually, but very open minded too ). However, for religion taken to the extreme, word for word - the bible is the absolute truth, having a rather vocal zealot aunt won't help your impression of it. >.>

[On Topic]

Personally, I'm getting rather disgusted by the modern celebration of holidays. They have largely turned into nothing more than over commercialized excuses to buy stuff at absurd prices. No one ever recognizes the origin of halloween, Christmas has become a holiday where people can briefly acknowledge those less fortunate for a day or two then forget about them for another year. On top of that, still Christmas, many stores start their seasonal marketing for the holiday in August with an ad company that almost blatantly reads "They won't love you if you don't get them the really expensive gift" which degenerates further the closer to the holiday you get.

St. Patricks Day... now nothing more than an excuse to get wasted on green novelty beer. Valentines day is now a holiday where instead of feasting in honor of Valentine or spending time with one's significant other, one must prove their love by buying exhorbrantly overpriced chocolate, flowers and/or jewelery then going to an expensive restaurant. Easter... I'd be curious to know the common conception of Easter switched from the rebirth of Chirst to the worship of overpriced chocolate rabbit droppings.

And while it's not a religious holiday, even things like Rememberance day are becoming commercialized. I wonder how long it'll be until we worship Hallmark, Walmart or Sears as our hollidays...
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Old 2004-11-20, 15:08   Link #77
Sora_Midori
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Off Topic (kinda)

I get mad when people talk about religion in such a disgusting manner. Religion was basically put on this earth (which is now one piece of disgusting crap) to bring order and spiritual relief to the human soul. No matter what you believe in there is only one God. I personally do not worship any specific religion, I like to explore each one. So far, each religion has one message LOVE and PEACE.

Of course I will get negative responses because as humans we only wish to bring negativity to any subject. We thrive on putting blame on everything else but OURSELVES, we thrive on bringing down and breaking down anything that has some form of message of peace. All we want is to be right and superior. But, I believe that our end is near and we will destroy this earth, and it is in progress.

Anyways, on the holiday subject, we take anything and try to make money off it. I just hope people start to realize the real message and stop looking at it from other people's point of view.

Don't hate any religion, basically don't hate, you'll just bring more hostility to this already torn world.
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Old 2004-11-20, 15:16   Link #78
Edgewalker
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christmas isnt entirely a christian holiday . While most of the stuff is christian its really one of those religious melting pot holidays . For instance - decorating trees is a pagan tradition , not a christian one .
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Old 2004-11-20, 15:24   Link #79
Shay
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover
Does any one even celebrate them any more?
Crimbo, and that’s about it.

I'm expecting the usual endless supply of socks and boxer shorts again this year.
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Old 2004-11-20, 18:04   Link #80
Briareos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sora_Midori
...Religion was basically put on this earth (which is now one piece of disgusting crap) to bring order and spiritual relief to the human soul...
Do you mean the Earth is now a piece of crap, or religion is now a piece of crap?
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