AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-08-09, 11:35   Link #15581
Tom Bombadil
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Yes because all of the World's economies started facing reality with their finances as soon as the Tea Party gained a foothold in the House of Representatives only this year. /sacrasm. They are the only ones who are wanting to bring forth a balanced budget in my country. The rest of the Republicans and all of the Democrats just want to spend more and more and more, until this country collapses.
They are also the stubborn backer of no-tax-increase, in stead, the "balancing" is focused on trashing "obama care" and cut social safety net. Of course, it is nothing but good notes for the rich to hear, but for the religiously zealous country poor, it is some sort of self mutilation, so I admire their courageous sacrifice to make contributions to the recovery of world economy.
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 11:37   Link #15582
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Balancing works both ways. You have to increase revenues and decrease expenses. Guess what they outright refused to do under any circumstances? It's all well and good if they proclaim they want to balance it, but they shouldn't crash the country's economy in the process.
In a recession/depression, the last thing you want to do is increase taxes. Get rid of loopholes is one thing, raising taxes is another. We're not as bad as we were 80 years ago, but we haven't been in this bad a situation in decades.

Even the S&P said that our entitlement spending and our ever increasing debt was the problem. Not whether we had a debt ceiling raised. And why didn't the Democrats pass a budget when they controlled all 3 Houses of the Federal Government?

Don: Obamacare hasn't even hit us yet, that's what scares me. America is in for a long decade of pain.
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 11:53   Link #15583
GundamFan0083
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: classified
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
All money is fiat money. It only holds value because people think it does. Even gold. Gold is valuable because "it's shiny", and people think that because it's shiny, other people think it's valuable.

Fiat currency is just lowering the abstraction by a level. Currency is only ever a means of exchange. The real problem is that certain sectors of the world economy thought things were more valuable then they really are, and when they realised they aren't actually that valuable, well...
Wrong.
That shows you don't understand money.

Specie money is the exchange of a commodity for goods and services.
Fiat money is the exchange of an IOU or promise to pay, i.e. debt-money.
Fiat money has no value.
Specie money does have value, which is why it can be gold, rice, oil, food, clean water, or anything with intrinsic value.
Fiat money can be made out of thin air.
Specie money is physical and requires a physical product backing it up for it to have value.

I don't know where this new idea that all money is fiat is coming from, but it is a completely daffy idea that shows a total ignorance of basic economics.
__________________
GundamFan0083 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 11:56   Link #15584
DonQuigleone
Knight Errant
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Don: Obamacare hasn't even hit us yet, that's what scares me. America is in for a long decade of pain.
Eh, I wasn't talking about Healthcare, but before you totally condemn Obamacare, I'd read about the costs involved with Universal healthcare around the world. The US government spends about as much already on healthcare as countries with universal healthcare, but only pays ~40% of all expenditure, while other countries are closer to 80%. US gov pays ~$4,000 per citizen per year on healthcare, while the UK only pays around $2,500.

Though Obamacare is a bastardized incomplete healthcare package...
DonQuigleone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 11:56   Link #15585
Dextro
He Without a Title
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Dextro
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Yes because all of the World's economies started facing reality with their finances as soon as the Tea Party gained a foothold in the House of Representatives only this year. /sacrasm. They are the only ones who are wanting to bring forth a balanced budget in my country. The rest of the Republicans and all of the Democrats just want to spend more and more and more, until this country collapses.
Damn you sure bought into the rhetoric didn't you? The world isn't black and white, the democrats are not greedy bureaucrats who just spend more and more money for lesser gain and the tea partiers aren't some knights in shinning armour who want to free the people from the corrupt bureaucrats and it's government.

The tea partiers are actually a bunch of extremists who dream of a country without government where private interests run wild and free. They're technically anarchists! What about that hum? OH and don't you go saying that some amount of government should exist cause then you're a socialist and in the US that's the same as calling someone a communist (unlike in many European countries).

Have the democrats appeared to be bumbling idiots in the houses? Yes they have. Have the tea partiers dragged most of the republican party into a line of extremism and conservationism that rendered them virtually incapable of reaching compromises? It sure does appear that way!

Both parties are in the wrong but compromise is the solution yet sadly I don't see that happening with the current crop of politics in the land of the free (however I hope to be proven wrong and fast).

PS: also keeping the Bush tax-cuts to the wealthy is an insult to any hard working american but that's just my view so take it as you wish.
__________________

Dextro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 12:02   Link #15586
TigerII
Pilot in Training
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
All money is fiat money. It only holds value because people think it does. Even gold. Gold is valuable because "it's shiny", and people think that because it's shiny, other people think it's valuable.

Fiat currency is just lowering the abstraction by a level. Currency is only ever a means of exchange. The real problem is that certain sectors of the world economy thought things were more valuable then they really are, and when they realised they aren't actually that valuable, well...
Just wait. Bottles of water and cans of food will one day be actual currency, lol.
TigerII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 12:04   Link #15587
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
In a recession/depression, the last thing you want to do is increase taxes. Get rid of loopholes is one thing, raising taxes is another. We're not as bad as we were 80 years ago, but we haven't been in this bad a situation in decades.

Even the S&P said that our entitlement spending and our ever increasing debt was the problem. Not whether we had a debt ceiling raised. And why didn't the Democrats pass a budget when they controlled all 3 Houses of the Federal Government?

Don: Obamacare hasn't even hit us yet, that's what scares me. America is in for a long decade of pain.
1. that was what was propose Obama, not raising tax but raising revenue by getting rid of tax loop holes and subsidy but Tea Party insist on revenue neutral. Every dollar raise form closing loopholes and getting rid of subsidies has to be balance by a decrease in taxes.

2. S&P also said the bush tax cut should be let to expire.

3. Because the D unlike the R are made up many different factions. You have Green Dems, Clinton Dems and Goldwater Republicans. The Republicans only have Conservatives and Extra Conservatives.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 12:17   Link #15588
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Lost in the noise was the fact that the Progressive Democrats did indeed propose a budget, early this year:

The People's Budget

You'll note why it was ignored by everyone including most mainstream media of course, since many of the things it proposes would immediately be fought by every special interest in Washington and Wall Street.
__________________
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 12:35   Link #15589
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
In a recession/depression, the last thing you want to do is increase taxes. Get rid of loopholes is one thing, raising taxes is another. We're not as bad as we were 80 years ago, but we haven't been in this bad a situation in decades.
Right, and they were opposed to closing loopholes too. And while raising taxes wouldn't be optimal in a R/D, it's certainly not the last thing you want to do. The last thing you'd want to do is cut social services that keep people from resorting to crime or becoming destitute.

Quote:
Even the S&P said that our entitlement spending and our ever increasing debt was the problem. Not whether we had a debt ceiling raised.
Actually, they said that was one of the problems. The other primary problem was all the fighting that had to be done just to get Congress to agree to raise the ceiling. The five factors were: Political Climate, Real Economy, Fiscal Situation (taxes), External Situation, and Monetary Policy.

Quote:
And why didn't the Democrats pass a budget when they controlled all 3 Houses of the Federal Government?
I'm more concerned about why they didn't raise the debt ceiling when they controlled everything.
GDB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 12:50   Link #15590
Sugetsu
Kurumada's lost child
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
I disagree.
This economic situation started before most of us were born.
It's called the Federal Reserve System and fiat money.
I pretty sure the TEAparty didn't exist in 1913.
I am not refering to the whole financial mess, which of course started with the implemenration of fiat currency, but if you want to go to the root cause you would have to get rid of usury itself, which is never ever going to happen as long as we use banks lol.

What I am mentioning here is the current market insecurity that started as soon as the US got downgraded for its first time in history, and for mere political reasons I might add because the country can still pay all his bills. What's funny is the fact that the tea party stared this whole mess, same as with the FAA, but the media, which is privatedly owned, blames both sides. This couldnt be further from the truth, and guess what, this benefits all the anti obama maniacs out there, because the public suffers from lack of ctitical thinking and short term memory loss. The media and the public, along with the republicans, will blame obama for this whole mess in the end.
Sugetsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 15:32   Link #15591
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Oh great. The rioting's spread to Manchester...
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 16:17   Link #15592
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τη λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
Headlines keep reporting from the Clash and the Sex Pistols...I wonder what else out there for them to use...Of course, seeing a car with the Billy Elliott ad in front of a burning scene also tells something.
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 16:49   Link #15593
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Oh great. The rioting's spread to Manchester...
... You guys want to borrow some riot police? For some reason, our delinquents are relatively calm.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 16:53   Link #15594
Tsuyoshi
Disabled By Request
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Great Justice
Send a message via AIM to Tsuyoshi Send a message via MSN to Tsuyoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
... You guys want to borrow some riot police? For some reason, our delinquents are relatively calm.
Actually? It's been REALLY quite over here all night, nothing like yesterday at all. I didn't even hear any sirens outside. Those kids went quiet somewhat too abruptly imo.
Tsuyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 17:05   Link #15595
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
With the texting tech and such... its like a flash mob, but one gone "evil".
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 17:13   Link #15596
Ithekro
Warning
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
The stock market went back up again today...so either it was a temporary thing, or just wild guessing again.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai! Signature by ganbaru
Rena's Saimoe Take Home List 2014: Dairenji Suzuka.Misawa Maho.
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 17:51   Link #15597
Decagon
This was meaningless
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Not on this site no more.
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The stock market went back up again today...so either it was a temporary thing, or just wild guessing again.
Yesterday was two things-- People reacting to the credit downgrade and people not wanting to be in weak positions in stocks when twitchy people sell in response to the credit downgrade. There was a large buyup of treasuries by many of these people if they didn't just go to cash, and today Bernanke put a stop to that by promising to keep bond rates low until 2013 (ie, people can't use t-bonds as a safe way to make some money to sit out a market downturn). He basically forced traders to put the money back into companies if they want to make money (ie, appease their investors/clients or keep their jobs as competent fund managers). Also there's probably a reaping of shorts that people profited from yesterday. The money from that is probably going back into the market as well.

edit
Expect uncomfortable volatility at least until those guys on wall street get their cheap anti-depressants and barbituates from Canada.
__________________

Last edited by Decagon; 2011-08-09 at 18:16.
Decagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 19:48   Link #15598
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonta Kun View Post
Oh you know how it is, those idiots that then start shouting "HUMAN RIGHTS, HUMAN RIGHTS!" for the criminals

If they used force to nip this in the butt a few days again we probably wouldn't be as far gone.

All these idiots really need to smacked down and that goes for the Parliment thats being recalled on Thursday, wtf is up with that?!

These yobs are responible for their own actions and they are criminals and should be treated as such be them kids or not.

I say screw em all and bring in the water cannons.
THANK YOU! AM I THE ONLY BRIT/LONDONER WHO WOULD WANNA HOSE DOWN THIS 1BRAINCELL IDIOTS!?
I do have some kinda mp3 of someone interviewing some off the looting kids asking them 'why'?
No sense of right or wrong, no responsibility for their own lives, blaming it on the 'rich' people or the 'goverment' and they literally said 'we proved that the police cannot touch us'. Guess they were right.

It's been a ticking timebomb tbh since they get away with little acts every day for years, all they did now was just team up and show the world the true face of English mentality.
But seriously, forget guns or tear gas, just hose the buggers, get them wet, cold and hurt some and they'll go home....
__________________

Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder
"If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia
Mystique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 20:25   Link #15599
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
To hell with letting them go home: knock 'em out with the hoses and rubber bullets and tear gas and arrest their sorry asses.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-08-09, 20:41   Link #15600
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
To hell with letting them go home: knock 'em out with the hoses and rubber bullets and tear gas and arrest their sorry asses.
They don't have the manpower for that, and plus it'd probably just escalate the violence. Water cannons are good for dispersing angry mobs--it doesn't hurt them or give them any real reason to run to the lawyers and sue for brutality. They just get a little wet, a little cold, and feel a lot stupid. It really does take the fight out of them.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
current affairs, discussion, international, news

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.