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View Poll Results: Steins;Gate - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 40 47.06%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 26 30.59%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 12.94%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 9.41%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-08-09, 18:28   Link #41
CatOfTime
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Great episode as always!

Moeka's character got more development... she seems to be a pretty sad character (though we already kind of knew that, because of her being obsessed with FB and other stuff like that, this episode confirmed it and revealed some backstory).

Was expecting a police to arrive and interrupt Okabe and Moeka, especially once Moeka started crying. The initial crash noises and shouting could be ignored because the neighbour (or whoever that was) checked and assumed it just being a rough couple. But once Moeka started crying very loudly I assumed that the neighbour would have checked again or called the police but that would have twisted this episode's plot.. oh well just nitpicking.

Even though I like the story and wouldn't change it... it'd make more sense to me if Okabe just sent "go pick the ibn5100 before Moeka gets it" or "stop Moeka from getting the ibn5100" after hearing what Moeka's message ... at least after the "undo the message" didn't work. This of course would cause the problem that Okabe wouldn't know how these actions would affect the world and it makes a better story for him to just try to undo things in order to save Mayuri.

But as always... this kind of stuff is the most common problem with series that include such difficult elements as time traveling. My own rule is to just enjoy the series as much as possible and try to ignore the minor flaws. Major flaws are harder to ignore but this series hasn't had any so far so I am good
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Old 2011-08-09, 18:55   Link #42
maplehurry
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What could he have done?
The same method he used to interrogate her several episodes ago obviously, something he has done before but found acceptable(no complain) by most people.
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Old 2011-08-09, 18:55   Link #43
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
The violence against a woman who had, in this timeline done nothing, isn't really admirable.
Oh please, this is ridiculous She killed Mayuri at least 20 times and you're angry because he punched her ? Actullay, it's understandable and I admire him for apolgazing to her her after that. No, because after everything he went thought, there is not many people who will do the same. And violence toward women is bad but not toward men ? ...
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Old 2011-08-09, 19:00   Link #44
Midonin
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Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
She killed Mayuri at least 20 times and you're angry because he punched her?
I'm not angry, more trying to work out the somewhat confusing way the anime fandom can interpret things. And she hasn't killed Mayuri in this timeline. Mayuri is still alive. And as long as Rintaro keeps time leaping, she'll continue to be alive until she's alive for good. Moeka's a victim, not a villain. It's as much about hurting someone innocent as anything else. The female aspect of it only stuck out to me a little more because I finally had a chance to bring it up after seeing it expressed across the forum in a multitude of other forms, causing me to wonder why.
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Old 2011-08-09, 19:07   Link #45
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
So how does she know Okabe in this timeline if she knew about the IBN5100?
Moeka only sent a D-mail that would reach her only 4 days in the past. However Moeka did encounter Okabe several times by chance while he was looking for the IBN5100, and that was way before she became a lab member on the initial timeline.
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Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
The same method he used to interrogate her several episodes ago obviously, something he has done before but found acceptable(no complain) by most people.
Interrogating her wouldn't work in this case, since Moeka's state of mind is completely different: she doesn't care of anything but her phone, because it is the only way for her to be in touch with FB.
FB didn't contact her for a while, which made her completely nervous and afraid of being abandoned. Therefore, until she could initially settle a down a bit (which was sort of initiated with the struggle), she would hardly pay heed to Okabe.
Meanwhile, that situation from Episode 14 is completely different: the plan is already in motion and she has to follow it, while the other goons are also in the party.

Furthermore, Okabe had the assumption he needs her phone to cancel her d mail, and that assumption is valid considering it would be hardly convincing if he send that mail with his own.
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Old 2011-08-09, 19:08   Link #46
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
I'm not angry, more trying to work out the somewhat confusing way the anime fandom can interpret things. And she hasn't killed Mayuri in this timeline. Mayuri is still alive. And as long as Rintaro keeps time leaping, she'll continue to be alive until she's alive for good. Moeka's a victim, not a villain. It's as much about hurting someone innocent as anything else. The female aspect of it only stuck out to me a little more because I finally had a chance to bring it up after seeing it expressed across the forum in a multitude of other forms, causing me to wonder why.
No no, for Okarin she killed at least 20 times Mayuri. It doesn't matter that she didn't do it in this time line. Okarin witness it at least 20 times. So yes he can punch her because he saw her killed Mayuri 20 times.
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Old 2011-08-09, 19:18   Link #47
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Originally Posted by CatOfTime View Post
Even though I like the story and wouldn't change it... it'd make more sense to me if Okabe just sent "go pick the ibn5100 before Moeka gets it" or "stop Moeka from getting the ibn5100" after hearing what Moeka's message ... at least after the "undo the message" didn't work. This of course would cause the problem that Okabe wouldn't know how these actions would affect the world and it makes a better story for him to just try to undo things in order to save Mayuri.
You kind of said it yourself. Why risk the butterfly effect when it has already had such nasty implications such as Mayuri's death or Suzuha's fate.

Okabe is playing it safe.
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Old 2011-08-09, 19:25   Link #48
Midonin
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Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
It doesn't matter that she didn't do it in this time line.
It does. You can't convict someone for a crime they didn't commit. Mayuri is very much alive and well. It would never hold up.
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Old 2011-08-09, 19:29   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
It does. You can't convict someone for a crime they didn't commit. Mayuri is very much alive and well. It would never hold up.
She did commit a crime. She stole their IBN 5100 and is also currently leaking information to SERN about their activities, which Okabe KNOWS will inevitably lead to their demise.
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Old 2011-08-09, 19:36   Link #50
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It doesn't matter whether she's committed a crime. Just look at what happened to Feyris' dad. Morally speaking, I think that his case' more controversial than this one here.
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Old 2011-08-09, 20:10   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
It was morally grey at best, though, and I feel like praising Rintaro for that over his talk is missing the point of the episode.
Except no one had "praised" him. You were the first to comment on the episode, and instantly started denouncing his actions and those who condone it.

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Originally Posted by ars89 View Post
Still don't get why he wasn't able to undue the d-mail even when he found out what she had sent the first time.
Like they said in the episode, she didn't believe the second D.Mail and went to check on the first one anyway.

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Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
And god this episode was absolutely amazing. So much emotion. The only thing that bothered me was how the landlady was like "oh lawl, they're making out" despite the fact that she was kicking and screaming and crying. Yeah that looks like some typical making out alright.

GG landlady
Actually, I think she had stopped moving by the time the landlady came by.

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Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
The same method he used to interrogate her several episodes ago obviously, something he has done before but found acceptable(no complain) by most people.
What, steal her gun? The gun that she likely didn't have on her? And what's a gun going to do to a person who isn't in their right state of mind? Or did you want him to shoot her in a non-fatal way? Pain's the only thing that would snap her out of that state (which has been proven on Mythbusters: pain focuses one's senses and thoughts in a fight or flight sort of way).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
It does. You can't convict someone for a crime they didn't commit. Mayuri is very much alive and well. It would never hold up.
You're now trying to bring law into an argument about emotions and time travel. There's obviously a lack of foresight in this thought process.
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Old 2011-08-09, 20:13   Link #52
karuroso
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Ow this ep hits really hard after those two last eps, very intense =O in special I have to mention Kurisu telling Okabe that Mayuri died, Asami Imai did a great acting there and of course the room' scene was splendid.

anyway I'm worried about the clock apparently stopping D= feels like SERN (or FB) is actually watching everything and planning to f*** everyone.
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Old 2011-08-09, 20:14   Link #53
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Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
Actually I'm surprised no one mentioned about the land lady checking up on Moeka and assumed it was her lover, rather than an attempted rape by some mysterious stranger, which was way more disturbing in my opinion.
That was the major WTF moment in the episode for me too. Tear half the apartment down and the neighbor assumes it's some rough lovemaking?

Anyway, I half expected Okabe to get shot through the door by Moeka. What was he thinking? Or else have Shining Finger hack through the door with an axe, "Shining" style.
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Old 2011-08-09, 20:25   Link #54
Elestia
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On a completely different note. I bet Kurisu is gonna explode with jealousy when she finds out Okabe's first kiss was taken given to Moeka.
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Old 2011-08-09, 20:33   Link #55
maplehurry
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Pain's the only thing that would snap her out of that state (which has been proven on Mythbusters: pain focuses one's senses and thoughts in a fight or flight sort of way).
Good to know that's the standard way to deal with mentally unstable people...
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Old 2011-08-09, 20:39   Link #56
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Well dear God, this episode was dark. Gah.

Not going to comment much on the Okabe/Moeka interaction, since that's obviously a bit of a debate here at the moment. Still, it's nice to see Moeka get some development, give us a real idea of what she was like before FB came into her life and apparently made it worth living. Personally, judging from how she opened up towards Okabe at the end (though if it was because he was kinder, or because he said he wouldn't allow her to die, I can't tell), I still think in this timeline she can be redeemed. She might be willing to obey FB no matter what, but the original timeline shows she had some kind of reservations about killing Mayuri. Maybe this time, she'll get to be something of a hero.
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Old 2011-08-09, 21:22   Link #57
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If this was the Moeka that killed Mayuri, I would have considered Okabe's treatment of her in this episode understandable. In fact, I'd call it a measure of revenge that, in some ways, is admirably somewhat restrained.

But this isn't the Moeka that killed Mayuri. Holding a crime against her that she has yet to commit (and perhaps never would in this timeline) just doesn't sit well with me.

In fairness, this is the sort of hypothetical ethical issue that only sci-fi can raise, similar to what I've watched in a lot of Star Trek episodes. It's difficult to have firm positions on them, because there's no real world analogy that can be used as a point of reference for them. So I'm not going to hold this too much against Okabe going forward, but I have to admit that I found it a bit discomforting to see "this side" of Okabe, and it impacted a bit on how enjoyable I found this particular episode alone.

Moreso than this episode alone, though, I do think that valid moral questions can be raised concerning Okabe's mission, and if it's truly worth it or not.

A girl has lost her beloved father.

A "girl" has lost the gender she wanted to be, and by extension, any chance with the guy she loves (as he's clearly heterosexual).

A girl has been left in a very dark place, and will likely commit suicide, with Okabe adding stinging words that may well play a role in pushing her over the edge in this regard.

How much harm, if not death, will Okabe end up bringing to the lives of others in order to save Mayuri?


Whether Steins;Gate intends to or not, I find that it presents an interesting moral query of "How far is too far when it comes to trying to save a person you love?" At this juncture, I'm not at all certain if I fully support Okabe in his endeavors. That being said, it makes for great drama to watch him pursue his goal with such single-minded strength and almost reckless abandon.

So regardless of whether or not I agree with him, I have to respect a person as driven as he is. Unflinching dedication to one other specific person may not be terribly logical or even necessarily ethical, but I tend to find it impressive and touching to behold, and it is also a reason behind why my current AS avatar is of the character that it is.

The irony is that at the end of the day, Moeka's unflinching dedication to "FB" is almost like a dark mirror image of Okabe's unflinching dedication to Mayuri. To have this anime's lead protagonist share a prominent character trait with the closest thing this anime has to a lead antagonist so far is deliciously poetic, and adds to how memorable Steins;Gate will likely prove to be for me.
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Old 2011-08-09, 21:28   Link #58
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
But this isn't the Moeka that killed Mayuri. Holding a crime against her that she has yet to commit (and perhaps never would in this timeline) just doesn't sit well with me.
We kinda know the answer to this point, she cannot kill Mayuri in this timeline because she is destined to die before Mayuri. Unless they go to a different timeline Moeka cannot kill Mayuri.
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Old 2011-08-09, 21:34   Link #59
Midonin
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Except no one had "praised" him. You were the first to comment on the episode, and instantly started denouncing his actions and those who condone it.
I can explain this one. I was extrapolating the reaction based on similar instances in the past for other shows, and the general attitudes seen around this board. This is one instance where my being the first to respond might have backfired, but I wasn't making my statement based on nothing either.
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Old 2011-08-09, 21:42   Link #60
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For me, this episode was just ugliness all around. I don't think this is anyone's finest hour, including Okarin. I can certainly understand why he did what he did, but it isn't anything to be proud of.
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