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Old 2011-08-10, 09:34   Link #12701
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
I don't how well will work Gabriel but with Fiamma, those nukes would been turned into nothing, aftereffects included since those are harmful to the world, and without world he can't save anything.
You don't know that, Fiamma's holy right has limits, otherwise he wouldn't have to do all this mess in the first place. He could protect himself, but he doesn't 'turn it all to zero'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post

I just wish how she can realize that Touma has been doing way more than what she thinks.

... I think I can pretty much say that I think Mikoto's character and integration into the plot is by levels are much... Problematic.
Hello, what have the last few volumes since vol14 been about? Plus it's not exactly her fault Touma never said anything.

You say you want her to know what Touma does, so do you want her into the story or not? You can't have it both ways because it has to start some where.
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Old 2011-08-10, 10:02   Link #12702
Drifting Wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post
I never had a good opinion on Mikoto from the beginning. The way she is wrote makes her seem she is pretty much made ignorant... Read, I mean she's not ignorant but I do believe there are times she could've gotten involved with Touma's side of things and get to know that the world does not revolve around Academy City and their prowess, namedly The Esper Curriculum. She has had more chances than Accelerator or Shiage but somehow the plot will always call for her to go "Huh?" on magic while keeping her out of it, while Touma goes into life-threatening situations just to keep everyone safe, and that includes her. And with that said... I just can't help but think how tactless she is when she made the message to Touma about the penalty game; she really thinks he goes off to Italy to have REAL fun. Instead, Touma goes off to save more people... Again.

I just wish how she can realize that Touma has been doing way more than what she thinks.

... I think I can pretty much say that I think Mikoto's character and integration into the plot is by levels are much... Problematic.

The fact is that the whole of Academy City is ignorant. And you can't blame them. Heck, even Touma was skeptical of the whole magic thing until Innocentius tried bashing his face in. When you are ingrained in something all your life, suddenly accepting a change is difficult.

And Mikoto does, in fact, realize that Touma is in deeper shit than she originally realized in Volume 16, I think. It's just that she was conflicted with herself on why exactly she would care about him so much that she's frozen with indecision. It's an acceptable thing.

One could argue about her significance to the plot but she's proven her guts - When Touma's in trouble, she rushes over to Russia without a second thought, stops a potential nuclear fallout and attempts to fly up there to rescue him personally. What did Lessar do? Stand around and gape.

Her appearances only seem forced because she sometimes appears out of nowhere... but Touma actually gives a viable reason for her being there. She's his tutor, she's the most powerful electromaster and thus, her knowledge regarding electronics is top-notch.

I understand the massive wanking that some people force down other people's throats but I would like to ask some understanding rather than bashing her character and appearance. Heck, at this rate, you might as well say that Index shouldn't be there because she doesn't do anything except biting Touma and providing exposition.
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Old 2011-08-10, 10:24   Link #12703
Master Assassin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post

You say you want her to know what Touma does, so do you want her into the story or not? You can't have it both ways because it has to start some where.
I don't really care whether she gets into the story or not. If she's going to be in it'd better be that she gets REALLY involved. I don't want her to be there just because "Hey that idiot is there." Or "What should I do? I know! Let's call Misaka for this."

One thing for sure is that it is not within my power to decide whether I want to see her in Index or not. I can still see her around and go "Her again?" but alas, I'm not Kamachi.

I'll be looking forward to seeing how far "I'll fight too" goes for her in NT3.
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Old 2011-08-10, 10:26   Link #12704
Inept Forum User
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Question

Quite a lot of interesting information to take in. I like most of what I've heard so far concerning NT2.

Regarding the picture of Radiosonde - was that cone also part of the structure or was it due to Kanzaki?

Also, while I can see what might have brought 'Railgun Hell' on (Touma should really have known better), was it a before-after with a brief description, or description as it happened?
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Old 2011-08-10, 10:39   Link #12705
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
You don't know that, Fiamma's holy right has limits, otherwise he wouldn't have to do all this mess in the first place. He could protect himself, but he doesn't 'turn it all to zero'.
He did that mess in order to obtain the fuel for his powers which he lacked not more no less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post
I don't really care whether she gets into the story or not. If she's going to be in it'd better be that she gets REALLY involved. I don't want her to be there just because "Hey that idiot is there." Or "What should I do? I know! Let's call Misaka for this."

One thing for sure is that it is not within my power to decide whether I want to see her in Index or not. I can still see her around and go "Her again?" but alas, I'm not Kamachi.

I'll be looking forward to seeing how far "I'll fight too" goes for her in NT3.
Kinda, when one character gets more space it heavily implies that other characters will get less to not say nothing of space in the series. I don't need to say more besides... Himegami Aisa maybe its because Kamachi is "cruel" towards her (see vol. 2 afterwords) but after vol. 19 is very surprising Tsuchimikado, despite being connected to both sides magic and science, he didn't have any mention during the war, a character like him who was able to see through a member of GRS is wasted like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inept Forum User View Post
Regarding the picture of Radiosonde - was that cone also part of the structure or was it due to Kanzaki?
So far the brief resumes says it was Kanzaki's doings.

On a related note, Kanzaki's SS Chapter 1 part 1 has been translated by Js06.
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Old 2011-08-10, 10:40   Link #12706
Phibrizzo
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Quite honestly I see Misaka as a well done character all in all she stays true to her dementor, she actually acts like a person that age (outside picking on poor skill outs harashing others). Really you want her to have a reason? honestly outside Touma theres no reason for her to be involved so far, as someone mention people are grounded to a reality and in the espers case they don't really belive in occult stuff even accelerator that so far was the most open minded esper took a bit to actually belive in those things.

I have more issues with Itsuwa been forced on the main plot she is basically everywhere when Touma needs a magician, avigon? really of 50 possible Akamatsu there it has to be Itsuwa.
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Old 2011-08-10, 10:42   Link #12707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
1. They don't like the hardcore fans of Mikoto claiming that Railgun is better than Index, overtime that hate gets transfer directly to the character of worship.
As a hardcore fan, I would say that Railgun is better for two reasons: The art and the story. Now, story-wise, it could only be better because unlike Index which needs to condense the nicely written story into a few episodes. Railgun had an inevitable advantage there. As for the art..... The joke is that because it features girls as the selling point, more attention was paid to it, to attract the hardcore otakus


Anyway, called up my otoutos, and they did confirm the spoilers so far. Also, no Railgun Hell or Deredere Worst
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Old 2011-08-10, 10:45   Link #12708
I_am_Kami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
As a hardcore fan, I would say that Railgun is better for two reasons: The art and the story. Now, story-wise, it could only be better because unlike Index which needs to condense the nicely written story into a few episodes. Railgun had an inevitable advantage there.

As for the art..... The joke is that because it features girls as the selling point, more attention was paid to it, to attract the hardcore otakus
Story? You mean the first half and the rest of the other episodes of boring fillers and the kamehamerailgun?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phibrizzo View Post
I have more issues with Itsuwa been forced on the main plot she is basically everywhere when Touma needs a magician, avigon? really of 50 possible Akamatsu there it has to be Itsuwa.
I don't see why not. That volume was her real debut. Volume 11 wasn't anything big.
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Old 2011-08-10, 10:48   Link #12709
kuroishinigami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phibrizzo View Post
Quite honestly I see Misaka as a well done character all in all she stays true to her dementor, she actually acts like a person that age (outside picking on poor skill outs harashing others). Really you want her to have a reason? honestly outside Touma theres no reason for her to be involved so far, as someone mention people are grounded to a reality and in the espers case they don't really belive in occult stuff even accelerator that so far was the most open minded esper took a bit to actually belive in those things.

I have more issues with Itsuwa been forced on the main plot she is basically everywhere when Touma needs a magician, avigon? really of 50 possible Akamatsu there it has to be Itsuwa.
The only coincidences for Itsuwa being beside Kamijou is only avignon right? On the other occasion, it's either she's volunteering to be with him or Tatemiya and the rest of Amakusa Church set them up together for knowing about her crush on him.

As for Mikoto, my complaint isn't about people hating it as much as they're complaining about her being inserted into the main story by saying it's forced progression. Really? How could it be forced progression finally inserting a "major" character that's been around since the beginning into the main plot, and that's without reading the flow leading to the event yet. It's fair to hate on a character, but why all the hate of her being inserted into the story when there's nothing wrong about it considering she went to Russia before and face danger just for being able to fight with Kamijou.
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Old 2011-08-10, 10:52   Link #12710
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_am_Kami View Post
Story? You mean the first half and the rest of the other episodes of boring fillers and the kamehamerailgun?
It's still better than the condensed wreak that was Index 2 (I mean, only a few of them had the same kind of impact as Railgun in any sense). But really, I'm comparing the two series. Index had a lot of potential wasted, unlike Railgun, and that gave the hardcores enough ammo to ram through with their zealous beliefs.
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Old 2011-08-10, 11:00   Link #12711
I_am_Kami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
It's still better than the condensed wreak that was Index 2 (I mean, only a few of them had the same kind of impact as Railgun in any sense).
Yes it was better than S2. But for me I finished S1 and got bored of Railgun. SOL of cute girls doing cute things is not in my taste.
Quote:
But really, I'm comparing the two series. Index had a lot of potential wasted, unlike Railgun, and that gave the hardcores enough ammo to ram through with their zealous beliefs.
Railgun anime was wasted potential. I know that it could only make of what the Railgun manga had but the second half still sucked. Just because otakus like cute girls doing cute things and it sells doesn't make it "lolamazing".
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Old 2011-08-10, 11:02   Link #12712
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_am_Kami View Post
Railgun anime was wasted potential. I know that it could only make of what the Railgun manga had but the second half still sucked. Just because otakus like cute girls doing cute things and it sells doesn't make it "lolamazing".
Looking into the mentality of the hardcore Railgun fans. I'm pretty neutral on that matter (since we had such BEAUTIFUL scenes of Accelerator both pounding and being pounded )
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Old 2011-08-10, 11:11   Link #12713
Endscape
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I wake up and come here, expecting to see at least a few more spoilers, but it's another Mikoto argument?

When did Mikoto turn into Matou Sakura?

My opinion on the matter is that Mikoto was bound to get involved in Touma's battles a long time ago. This is simply a natural progression of everything that's happened so far.

Quote:
On a related note, Kanzaki's SS Chapter 1 part 1 has been translated by Js06.
Finally, you've come, my long awaited Kanzaki SS.

*flies away to BT*
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Old 2011-08-10, 11:16   Link #12714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
I wake up and come here, expecting to see at least a few more spoilers, but it's another Mikoto argument?
The spoilers released are pretty much the basics of the entire book. Unless you're looking bot tidbits....
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Old 2011-08-10, 11:31   Link #12715
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
The spoilers released are pretty much the basics of the entire book. Unless you're looking bot tidbits....

I realize, but I was expecting a few more tidbits...
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Old 2011-08-10, 11:49   Link #12716
Sleep_ping
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Well, the Japanese>Chinese translators have already translated the prologue of NT2 now. Not going to use it though.

And I failed in my quest to get NT2. Next attempt will be on 14/8 (or 8/14 if you like), since I'm really busy after all the National Day stuff (Army)...
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Old 2011-08-10, 13:00   Link #12717
leukrota
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@ Teh_Ping - Too bad, but good luck next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
He did that mess in order to obtain the fuel for his powers which he lacked not more no less.
And do you think he would not have taken advantage of the nukes to grow his power? especially since the resistance was already draining them. And after all, if his plan had succeeded, he could have then saved the world from the fallout, so no problems there.

_____

Anyway, I would like to add that some people here make it sound like Kamachi is sacrificing the structure of his story just to please the fans by including more of Mikoto. Have you thought that maybe Kamachi likes her too, as well as many of his other characters?, but since she's had good reception then he decided to include more of her in the story. Possibly slowly precisely so as not to affect what he had already thought of.
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Old 2011-08-10, 13:17   Link #12718
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
I wake up and come here, expecting to see at least a few more spoilers, but it's another Mikoto argument?

When did Mikoto turn into Matou Sakura?

My opinion on the matter is that Mikoto was bound to get involved in Touma's battles a long time ago. This is simply a natural progression of everything that's happened so far.
When discussion gets back to the novels, certain someones drags Mikoto again to the topic with the same arguments from several pages ago with some news.

Quote:
Finally, you've come, my long awaited Kanzaki SS.

*flies away to BT*
I tell you, Ellason is Houdini!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Anyway, I would like to add that some people here make it sound like Kamachi is sacrificing the structure of his story just to please the fans by including more of Mikoto. Have you thought that maybe Kamachi likes her too, as well as many of his other characters?, but since she's had good reception then he decided to include more of her in the story. Possibly slowly precisely so as not to affect what he had already thought of.
The structure maybe, but at the cost of other character as I said above with Tsuchimikado being invisible during the war, or a worse situation being left on a side like Index despite being the titular character despite being relevant and having the events flowing because of her.
Kamachi already changed the structure since after vol. 2, remember?

Don't you think that somehow affects the series? Railgun has Mikoto while Index has... Touma, Accel, Mikoto, Hamazura and growing load of characters.... and?

Somehow I've finally realized why serenade_beta refers to Index as In-something-san, etc... . Even if some people has a dislike for the titular character Louise from ZnT, Shana from SnS, etc, their respective authors have managed to keep their titular characters a main characters even I admit despite not liking some of them I have a respect for them.

A series which doesn't do so will slowly reveal its weakness by adding more and more characters but the supposed titulars in order to make up for those points.

Quote:
And do you think he would not have taken advantage of the nukes to grow his power?
No. Because without people there is no ill will and 'ill will' = 'fuel to save the world''.
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Old 2011-08-10, 13:57   Link #12719
leukrota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
The structure maybe, but at the cost of other character as I said above with Tsuchimikado being invisible during the war, or a worse situation being left on a side like Index despite being the titular character despite being relevant and having the events flowing because of her.
Kamachi already changed the structure since after vol. 2, remember?

Don't you think that somehow affects the series? Railgun has Mikoto while Index has... Touma, Accel, Mikoto, Hamazura and growing load of characters.... and?

Somehow I've finally realized why serenade_beta refers to Index as In-something-san, etc... . Even if some people has a dislike for the titular character Louise from ZnT, Shana from SnS, etc, their respective authors have managed to keep their titular characters a main characters even I admit despite not liking some of them I have a respect for them.

A series which doesn't do so will slowly reveal its weakness by adding more and more characters but the supposed titulars in order to make up for those points.
Mikoto hasn't taken THAT much story space, you know? The fact that's there's little focus on the titular or other characters is a completely separate matter.

Itsuwa, Kanzaki, Agnesse and Orsola, among others, have sections that have little to do with the main plot, and I don't see people complaining about that (and they shouldn't, those also don't absorb that much space either.)

I think it's just wrong to blame every storytelling mistake to the inclusion of Mikoto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
No. Because without people there is no ill will and 'ill will' = 'fuel to save the world''.
A nuclear fallout will bring a dangerous situation with high radiation in the atmosphere, but unless the radiation is absurd, it won't instantly kill that many people. (and by absurd, I mean a lot more than a dozen missiles)

Google it if you want to know more.
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Old 2011-08-10, 14:02   Link #12720
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Mikoto hasn't taken THAT much story space, you know? The fact that's there's little focus on the titular or other characters is a completely separate matter.

Itsuwa, Kanzaki, Agnesse and Orsola, among others, have sections that have little to do with the main plot, and I don't see people complaining about that (and they shouldn't, those also don't absorb that much space either.)

I think it's just wrong to blame every storytelling mistake to the inclusion of Mikoto.
Read me again, you got it wrong, I'm not talking about her only (I'm not that interested) but on the story in a general aspect.

Quote:
A nuclear fallout will bring a dangerous situation with high radiation in the atmosphere, but unless the radiation is absurd, it won't instantly kill that many people. (and by absurd, I mean a lot more than a dozen silos)

Google it if you want to know more.
Nah, to be honest I forgot if it was only one or a lot of them, whatever, the target was Fiamma on his fortress and it means nothing to him like a satellital attack with an unknown laser beam.
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