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Old 2011-08-21, 21:09   Link #15981
synaesthetic
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I'm sorry, but whatever sense you speak is completely drowned out by the sheer roar of the bullshit that accompanies it. You'd make a great shill for an organic food megacorp!
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Old 2011-08-21, 21:19   Link #15982
Ithekro
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I'd agree with synaethetic on that one.
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Old 2011-08-21, 21:37   Link #15983
Sugetsu
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Whatever it is not like I posted here trying to change your point of view. That never happens in a forum anyway. At least you have been given a new perspective on things, whether you try and do some research of your own or dismiss it all as BS it is your choice.

Besides, that is precisely why I jumped in the debate because I knew that most people don't like to be told to stop eating meat

Edit: by the way, I love how life is, as I type this stuff I am watching the episode of Everybody Loves Raymond called: No fat.

For the meat loves out there, this is for you:


Last edited by Sugetsu; 2011-08-21 at 21:48.
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Old 2011-08-21, 22:16   Link #15984
ganbaru
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Hamas official: Gaza militants agree to cease-fire

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...08-21-21-23-05
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Old 2011-08-21, 22:47   Link #15985
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
This is all good and dandy but we are primarily designed as herbivores. Our teeth and digestive track are build to assimilate and process plant life in a more efficient way than flesh. When you eat a nice juicy steak it may take days for it to be fully digested, this is one of the reason why eating meat makes us feel fuller faster.
If you observe our teeth they also point to our predecessors being omnivorous, rather then herbivorous. For one thing we have Canines, which are nigh on non-existent among herbivorous speices. Likewise our molars are "multipurpose".

Quote:
PS. Just in case you haven't caught what I have been trying to hint at with these 2 posts; the cure for cancer already exists. It has been known in the west since the early 1900s by homeopathic medicine, which was later labeled as fake and full of swindles by the allopathic medicine establishment. All you have to do is limit your intake in animal protein.

The cure for cancer has been distorted by the industry because there is no money to be made and natural food cannot be patented, but chemical compounds can. But this is a topic for another day.
Homeopathy LOL. Sorry to break it to you, it is just water.

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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Then you define me as a gullible person. Well lets talk about being gullible, I say that everything you know comes from the environment in which you were raised. The knowledge of most people in this current world is obtained from monetarily driven media. Now ask yourself, is there scientific knowledge that has been suppressed by the market system because the knowledge can bring down an economic system? Did you know you can create water from the planet's air by condensing the hydrogen in it? Did you know that the devise already exists? Why is it that most people haven't heard of it? Why hasn't it been implemented in water-starved areas already? What about green energy? Why not look further in to zero point energy or solar energy?
LOL. (Almost) No Hydrogen exists freely floating in the air because it would immediately combust with Oxygen to form water. Meanwhile, everyone knows that actual water exists in the atmosphere, why do you think they're always referring to humidity in weather reports? That's the amount of water contained in a given amount of air. On a humid day I can put out a piece of plastic and water will bead on it. It's old hat.

Such devices do in fact exist that help water deprived areas get water. But there's 2 problems:
1. You only get a trickle, enough to get drinking water, but not nearly enough for crops(most water is used in agriculture...)
2. In arid regions they don't work very well anyway as those areas are notoriously, well, dry.

Quote:
I claim that what you know and what you believe is the product of the profit driven social system. Reagan said it himself after all: "Government is not part of the solution is part of the problem". Of course, there is a little marvelous invention called the internet which has brought chaos to the good old political systems, media establishments and industries alike. * sarcasm* Not to worry though, we need to protect our children from internet porn, and cut the communication of terrorist groups across the globe. So it is important to regulate the internet! */end sarcasm*
It also provides endless new opportunities for snake salesman to sell their wares on new fools. For your own sake, take some more classes in chemistry and physics.

Quote:
Why is "green" energy expensive? Because it is scarce. It takes billions of dollars to in order to develop efficient alternate methods of energy. It is the same with food. In the US is cheaper to buy a can of soda than a bottle of water. It is cheaper to buy a Big Mac than a couple of tomatoes.
You're living in a strange world, I can go down to the supermarket and get some tomatoes for cheap. And water is pretty much free out of a tap. Bottled water is just an overpriced con (unless you live somewhere with unsafe water). The other reason Bottled water is so expensive is that it's actually more expensive to ship it as you can't transport it in concentrated form (which i imagine Soda is). Unsurprisingly the vast majority of a drinks weight is water. If you can remove the water and then re add it close to point of sale a lot of money is saved...

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Yes! they are well known and consumed regularly but the trick is to "to know what you eat and what it does to your body, you should care about which foods raise or lowers your alkaline levels, which foods have a high acidic value and much more because this is crucial to your well being. This is something that the vast majority of people don't know. The aim of the term superfoods is to increase nutritional awareness. It is the task of the consumer to properly identify them.
It's not so complicated as you make it out. A little bit of common sense goes a long way, most people with bad diets know there diet is bad, and they know how to fix it (simple answer -> eat more fruits and vegetables, eat less prepackaged/junk foods). Not that complicated.

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If you want to introduce non native foods into a culture all you got to do is use the media. Yes the same media that makes you believe what it wants you to believe.
You make it sound malevolent, they're just trying to shill a project on you, it's still your choice whether you buy it...

Quote:
Let us be clear, cancer cannot be absolutely removed from our species. Cancer is a part of mutation and as such it is part of the evolutive process. Everyone produces cancerous cells, we all live with cancer in a way, the problem is when you have too many mutated cells in your body. It is the human induced cancers that can be cured and prevented. These cancers are byproducts of our food and chemical industries which introduce imbalances to our bodies. Japanese people for example used to have a very low rate of cancer compared to the rest of the modern world, but ever since the induction of western products, including food, they have begun to lose that advantage.
Cancer is a disease of old age, you'll find in most non-developed countries Cancer rates are extremely low, because usually something else kills a person first.

We've eliminated or ameliorated almost all the common causes of death. It's very uncommon for a person to die from Disease or malnutrition. Heart Disease can be treated with blood pressure meds. Malfunctioning organs can be replaced. But Cancer, it's hard.

Also western populations also have higher rates of cancer due to the fact we're a lot more susceptible to skin cancer, because we're, well, white.
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Old 2011-08-21, 22:55   Link #15986
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post

This is all good and dandy but we are primarily designed as herbivores. Our teeth and digestive track are build to assimilate and process plant life in a more efficient way than flesh. When you eat a nice juicy steak it may take days for it to be fully digested, this is one of the reason why eating meat makes us feel fuller faster.
Our eyes locate for staring in front for focusing on prey. No herbivore has their eyes locate like we do, only other predators do. Our teeth are design to both tear meat off bones and grind plants for digestion. We are OMNIVORES, design to both hunt for meat and to take advantage of plants to supplement our diet.
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Old 2011-08-22, 00:40   Link #15987
Sugetsu
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
If you observe our teeth they also point to our predecessors being omnivorous, rather then herbivorous. For one thing we have Canines, which are nigh on non-existent among herbivorous speices. Likewise our molars are "multipurpose".



Homeopathy LOL. Sorry to break it to you, it is just water.



LOL. (Almost) No Hydrogen exists freely floating in the air because it would immediately combust with Oxygen to form water. Meanwhile, everyone knows that actual water exists in the atmosphere, why do you think they're always referring to humidity in weather reports? That's the amount of water contained in a given amount of air. On a humid day I can put out a piece of plastic and water will bead on it. It's old hat.

Such devices do in fact exist that help water deprived areas get water. But there's 2 problems:
1. You only get a trickle, enough to get drinking water, but not nearly enough for crops(most water is used in agriculture...)
2. In arid regions they don't work very well anyway as those areas are notoriously, well, dry.


It also provides endless new opportunities for snake salesman to sell their wares on new fools. For your own sake, take some more classes in chemistry and physics.
If you look at my wording carefully, i said primarily designed as herbivores. We humans can live entirely on plant life and are better equipped to process plant life.

What's people's beef with homeopathic medicine? A homeophat is just a nutricionist. His focus is to give foods that will help you with your illness. Homeophaty focuses on boosting the immune system through nutricion that's all. if you suffer from depression he would tell you take vitamin c for example. Normal medicine has many advantages but it focuses too much on external factors to heal the body, when the body itself has incredible capabilities for self healing. It just comes down to proper nutrition.

As for the machine that makes water, you are correct. It was just careless of my part to believe what the administrator of the Embassy of Sweden told me when I saw the machine and drank water from it.

Last edited by Sugetsu; 2011-08-22 at 10:26.
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Old 2011-08-22, 01:18   Link #15988
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Then you define me as a gullible person. Well lets talk about being gullible, I say that everything you know comes from the environment in which you were raised. The knowledge of most people in this current world is obtained from monetarily driven media. Now ask yourself, is there scientific knowledge that has been suppressed by the market system because the knowledge can bring down an economic system? Did you know you can create water from the planet's air by condensing the hydrogen in it?
Device? It's called a match.

Did you know that the devise already exists? Why is it that most people haven't heard of it? Why hasn't it been implemented in water-starved areas already?[/quote]
Because they have no ready supply of hydrogen. Since it takes water to produce some.

Quote:
What about green energy? Why not look further in to zero point energy or solar energy?
What makes you think we aren't looking into it? (Well, at this point, zero point energy devices are mostly science fiction.)

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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
If you look at my wording carefully, i said primarily designed as herbivores. We humans can live entirely on plant life and are better equipped to process plant life. We cannot survive on meat alone like carnivores do.
Call me when we can digest cellulose properly. It's what, 30-90% if plant matter?

Quote:
What's people's beef with homeopathic medicine? A homeophat is just a nutricionist. His focus is to give foods that will help you with your illness. Homeophaty focuses on boosting the immune system through nutricion that's all. if you suffer from depression he would tell you take vitamin c for example. Normal medicine has many advantages but it focuses too much on external factors to heal the body, when the body itself has incredible capabilities for self healing. It just comes down to proper nutrition.
Homeopathy's based on diluting medicine so much they, chemically speaking, have no effect on your system. If it works, it's because of the Placebo effect.
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Old 2011-08-22, 04:43   Link #15989
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Homeopathy's based on diluting medicine so much they, chemically speaking, have no effect on your system. If it works, it's because of the Placebo effect.
The worse about homeopathy is than the medecine is supposed to be more efficient in smaller concentration, which is illogical (a fact than the user should overlook or ignore if he don't want to loose the placebo effect )
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Old 2011-08-22, 06:14   Link #15990
Haak
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It also has some rather weird theories about what helps. Apparently one way to improve it's effect is to gently hit the bottle against a table repeatedly before taking it.
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Old 2011-08-22, 06:17   Link #15991
SaintessHeart
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It also has some rather weird theories about what helps. Apparently one way to improve it's effect is to gently hit the bottle against a table repeatedly before taking it.
Or to mix with vodka/whisky and drink with vicodin.

We do have a few biology grads and an apprentice of Eirin (Meo) here on the forums. Let's ask them.
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Old 2011-08-22, 07:18   Link #15992
Haak
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I've only studied a bit of Homeopathy in my pharmacy course but we all got the gist of it: it's bullshit. The problem with most alternative medicines is that there's very little quality control.
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Old 2011-08-22, 08:09   Link #15993
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
What's people's beef with homeopathic medicine? A homeophat is just a nutricionist. His focus is to give foods that will help you with your illness. Homeophaty focuses on boosting the immune system through nutricion that's all. if you suffer from depression he would tell you take vitamin c for example. Normal medicine has many advantages but it focuses too much on external factors to heal the body, when the body itself has incredible capabilities for self healing. It just comes down to proper nutrition.
I can assure you, homeopathy is what other posters are saying: The dilution of substances until they're basically just water. Frequently the concentration reaches levels where it's equivalent to one drop of agent in the entire world's oceans, or even the entire solar system.

Alternative medecine is a hogwash. Some of the herbal remedies might work in certain circumstances, but the vast majority of it is snake oil. These Alternative medecines are usually just leftovers from the era prior to the advent of modern medecine, and medecine from then was as likely to kill you as cure you.

No Alternative medecine these days is that dangerous, but it's more likely then not to do nothing.

I can actually say the same thing about nutritionists. No qualifications are required to call yourself a nutritionist, it is not a professionally protected term (like Doctor, or Engineer). They have no legal responsibility to you. A lot of them are con artists looking to sell you suplements that do nothing, or foolish people with little grasp of how the body actually works. They can use any combinations of complicated words and most people will fall for it.

If you want actual advice on your diet, see a dietitian. That is an actual profession, with legal controls.

The medical establishment has it's share of flaws, for instance they try and push new expensive drugs when cheap old drugs do just as good a job. But the medical establishment won't ever prescribe you drugs that are completely ineffective. They are legally responsible for you while you are in their care (they owe you a "duty of care"). Their drugs have to go through an extensive approval process in the Food and Drugs Administration. But they don't sell snake oil, they'd get owned in court if they did that.

In the end, the person you should really trust is your GP. Now admittedly some GPs have gaps in their knowledge(or are even negligent). When you have something is very serious you should always get a second (or even 3rd) opinion. But I can guarantee you that they know far more about what's going on then you could possibly. It's their job to. The only job homeopaths or Nutritionists have is to sell you their latest range of supplements.
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Old 2011-08-22, 08:23   Link #15994
Haak
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Well there is chiropractic. That atleast is more legitimate now that it has proper quality control and regulation...

...but it's no cure for cancer...
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Old 2011-08-22, 08:40   Link #15995
DonQuigleone
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Well there is chiropractic. That atleast is more legitimate now that it has proper quality control and regulation...

...but it's no cure for cancer...
I'd even be weary of it.

Always go to your doctor first. And don't try and second guess him with stuff an ad told you on TV. If you are in doubt, get a second opinion.
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Old 2011-08-22, 11:33   Link #15996
Nerroth
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The new leader of the official opposition of Canada, Jack Layton, has passed away after a second struggle with cancer.

Rest in peace, Jack.
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Old 2011-08-22, 13:12   Link #15997
synaesthetic
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Chiropractic is also pretty much new-agey bullshit as well. It's heavily based on the idea of qi and power lines, which we know is best left to the realm of religion and spirituality, not medical science. It has about as much scientific substance as crystal healing does--which is to say none at all.

I've been to a chiropractor before, after a bad car accident--my insurance actually urged me to go, oddly enough--and what the chiropractor himself did was just pop my back. Sure, it felt good, but the massage therapist I saw afterwards (and paid for out of pocket) did far more actual good.

The main reason it's the most accepted of the snake-oil quack medicines is that it isn't actively harmful (like alkaline water, et al) and it feels good, like a massage. So you get the soothing/relaxing feeling plus the placebo effect and people enjoy it. I personally don't see any issue with the act itself, honestly--my beef with chiropractic is all the bullshit claims they make about how it's a cure-all. That's dishonest and deceitful and shouldn't be tolerated by the FDA.

I wish the whole "dietary supplement" type of gray area where quack medicine thrives and robs people of billions every year shouldn't exist. Some of these "supplements" are really, really bad for you. Medical science is not the big evil--while Big Pharma may be interested in making money, most doctors, pharmacologists, medical researchers are more interested in helping people than those who are after the profit alone. There are easier ways to make money than becoming a medical doctor.
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Old 2011-08-22, 13:25   Link #15998
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Chiropractic is also pretty much new-agey bullshit as well. It's heavily based on the idea of qi and power lines, which we know is best left to the realm of religion and spirituality, not medical science. It has about as much scientific substance as crystal healing does--which is to say none at all.
I don't know what chiropractor you've been to, but last I heard it wasn't about qi or anything made up at all. It's blood flow, bone alignment, and muscle tension last I checked.

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my beef with chiropractic is all the bullshit claims they make about how it's a cure-all. That's dishonest and deceitful and shouldn't be tolerated by the FDA.
Well, yeah. That's just BS. Nothing's a cure-all except death. "Good for what ails 'ya."
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Old 2011-08-22, 13:36   Link #15999
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You heard from a more honest and less hokey chiropractor, apparently. As long as they admit it's basically a massage for your bones and doesn't magically cure any diseases, they're okay in my book.
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Old 2011-08-22, 13:36   Link #16000
Ithekro
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Some "quack" medicines are proven over time...but usually not for the reason the quack thinks it is. Usually it turns out to be a fungus or some other creature's chemical reaction with the human or virus system that causes a cure to some ailment. These can be pulled out by science and when they are, the quacks give way to real medicine.

The problem with the quacks in those cases (or shamen/old ritual healing methods) is that they didn't understand what the cure was, just that there was a cause and effect one or more times when they did something. Sometimes they didn't really know what thing is was that was the cure, so instead of filtering out parts of a ritual, they would just keep the whole ritual...just to be safe. Sometimes the ritual was kept, but the vital part was missing, because they didn't know that the first use of this was from a plant that has a specific mold on it, and just assumed it was the plant itself.

Usually there is a reason for old timey medical practices to have worked and why shaman would be considered healers, but they either keep secrets (to hold their authority) or don't actually know the real reason whatever they do works...just that it does sometimes. Science is catching up with all sorts of things, but there are literally thousands of things we have yet to discover in the realm or the very small and the use of things we would normally kill (molds) or places we wouldn't normally look, but a wondering tribesmen would have looked.

New-age crap, no...but after it has been processed through science...sure.

Or course, a science cure for one person won't always work on another. We may be the same species, but we are all different in some ways. (Take Penicilian (from a mold) for example. The wonder drug of the 1940s and 1950s. Some Baby Boomers were overdosed on this as kids because people like Army doctors handed it out for everything and are now allergic to it.)
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