AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2004-11-22, 23:18   Link #1
Mr_Paper
Hmm...
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Looking for his book...
Senate May Ram Copyright Bill

Okay, this is about a week old, but I'm curious if anyone knows how it turned out.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0...w=wn_tophead_2

It is a sad day when the RIAA and Hollywood push to have laws passed that undermine things like fair use and make it a criminal offense to skip the previews on DVD movies or the commerials during television programs. Although if it did go through, the American Department of Justice is now Hollywood and the RIAA's law firm.
Mr_Paper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 00:19   Link #2
Lord Raiden
Uber Coffee for da win!
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Middle of insanity
Not to be brash or abrasive here, but the RIAA and the MPAA can go kiss my little white a**. I don't care what laws they pass, I WILL do what I want with the media I own and they can kiss my a** if they think they're going to change it. Block me from burning DVD's, fine, I'll just hack my drive to get around your security. Try to send me to jail for doing it. Fine, I'll just conseal my activities. Try to peak in on what I'm doing. I'll just hide my machine. Block me from getting any hardware that allows me to do ANYTHING you don't like. Fine, I'll go out of the country and buy my hardware there.

They just don't get it. All they're doing is turning their own customers against them. In time the people are going to get so sick of it that the battle will totally turn against the RIAA and MPAA, people will demand media freedom, and laws will be turned against them. And for what? They're already making outrageous fortunes screwing everyone from the top of the ladder down to joe nobody, yet they want more??? o_0

I'm sorry if I sound a bit crass, but this is a sore subject with me. I'm going to stop now before I get really obnoxious about this corporate powered greed induced money gorging fest. Gauds I hate greed.
__________________
Visit my new writing website at:
www.realmsofimagination.net
Lord Raiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 00:35   Link #3
Kempis Curious
:love::love::love:
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Loving a peaceful life in San Clemente, California.
Age: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Raiden
Not to be brash or abrasive here, but the RIAA and the MPAA can go kiss my little white a**. I don't care what laws they pass, I WILL do what I want with the media I own and they can kiss my a** if they think they're going to change it. Block me from burning DVD's, fine, I'll just hack my drive to get around your security. Try to send me to jail for doing it. Fine, I'll just conseal my activities. Try to peak in on what I'm doing. I'll just hide my machine. Block me from getting any hardware that allows me to do ANYTHING you don't like. Fine, I'll go out of the country and buy my hardware there.

They just don't get it. All they're doing is turning their own customers against them. In time the people are going to get so sick of it that the battle will totally turn against the RIAA and MPAA, people will demand media freedom, and laws will be turned against them. And for what? They're already making outrageous fortunes screwing everyone from the top of the ladder down to joe nobody, yet they want more??? o_0

I'm sorry if I sound a bit crass, but this is a sore subject with me. I'm going to stop now before I get really obnoxious about this corporate powered greed induced money gorging fest. Gauds I hate greed.
I totally agree. The last time they "lost" the battle against VCRs they made another fortune with video rentals and pornography.

All it would take is a convienent pay site for downloading movies and they would make another fortune like iTunes is doing with music. But instead they want to play hardball. They're stupid and/or stubborn.

-k

curious
Kempis Curious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 02:05   Link #4
Cruzz
Europeon
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Yurup
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kempis Curious
All it would take is a convienent pay site for downloading movies and they would make another fortune like iTunes is doing with music. But instead they want to play hardball. They're stupid and/or stubborn.

-k

curious
iTunes isn't exactly creating a fortune. Analysts think that Apple is getting around 10 cents per song themselves. As such, they've only got around 12 million dollars in profit so far. 12 million dollars in what, one and a half years? That's a few percent at most of Apple's gross profits. Not *bad*, but definitely not a fortune either. The increased sales of iPods from iTunes most likely accounts for more of the profits than iTunes itself.
Cruzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 10:55   Link #5
tanuki
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Raiden
Not to be brash or abrasive here, but the RIAA and the MPAA can go kiss my little white a**. I don't care what laws they pass, I WILL do what I want with the media I own and they can kiss my a** if they think they're going to change it. Block me from burning DVD's, fine, I'll just hack my drive to get around your security. Try to send me to jail for doing it. Fine, I'll just conseal my activities. Try to peak in on what I'm doing. I'll just hide my machine. Block me from getting any hardware that allows me to do ANYTHING you don't like. Fine, I'll go out of the country and buy my hardware there.

They just don't get it. All they're doing is turning their own customers against them. In time the people are going to get so sick of it that the battle will totally turn against the RIAA and MPAA, people will demand media freedom, and laws will be turned against them. And for what? They're already making outrageous fortunes screwing everyone from the top of the ladder down to joe nobody, yet they want more??? o_0

I'm sorry if I sound a bit crass, but this is a sore subject with me. I'm going to stop now before I get really obnoxious about this corporate powered greed induced money gorging fest. Gauds I hate greed.
I have very little respect for the MPAA, RIAA, and the rest. Their use of heavy handed tactics doesn't exactly score them any brownie points with "the little people" they want to make money off of. Instead of offering consumers a more attractive and profitable alternative, or implement a copyright protection scheme which is unbreakable at the consumer level, or mainly go after the groups and businesses who make money and profit from the violation of someone elses copyrighted material.

They should just consider it as fact at this point that by being a step behind the times in terms of evolving technology they have allowed their existing catalogs of copyrighted movies and songs to slip into the public domain where liberal standards of fair use will apply. Their copyrights may still be in effect from a technical standpoint which can be used to stop the illegal sale of protected works, but in practical terms it's now more difficult for the holder of the copyright to turn a profit off something that's already been freely distributed across much of the planet. Taking a legal stick to consumers won't change this.
tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 11:08   Link #6
Lord Raiden
Uber Coffee for da win!
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Middle of insanity
Quote:
All it would take is a convienent pay site for downloading movies and they would make another fortune like iTunes is doing with music. But instead they want to play hardball. They're stupid and/or stubborn.
It's not about playing hardball. It's about the easiest way for them to gouge everyone of every single dime they got, then go back for the rest that we don't have. IF the media companies had their way, they'd FORCE us to pay for thinking about a song, singing it ourselves, whistling, or anything they could come up with to get more money to gorge themselves on. This isn't about copyrights or fair use or anything like that. It's about an uber greedy monopoly running a racket that extorts money from anyone they can get it from. What sucks is that half of our senators and represenatives are on their payroll and thus are making such stupid laws. Gauds, I hate the RIAA/MPAA.
Quote:
Taking a legal stick to consumers won't change this.
I fully agree. They just don't get it. Technology can be used to improve their business model, increase their profits and actually help them, but to them its a scary new monster. On top of that the RIAA/MPAA doesn't like to change. I admit that the studios themselves keep looking for new and better ways to make movies, but they fail to see the newer and better ways that technology can provide them for distributing their content. But that's another story.
__________________
Visit my new writing website at:
www.realmsofimagination.net
Lord Raiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 11:12   Link #7
Ending
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Post

Think it this way:

They make profit about 40,000 bucks per won case. In their last campaign, they won 85% of cases, which means they won about 450 cases out of 500. This means they can make some serious cash by tracking down potential BT users, suing them and thus forcing them to pay, knowing that the lawyers cost sick amounts of money in US. New career and all that. Silicon Valley = Center of Technology. Hollywood = Folly of American Law.

Can't blame yankees wanting to live in Canada.
Ending is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 12:50   Link #8
zappater
zapper
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden, Basement
Age: 24
Why haven't anyone tried to get RIAA and MPAA illegal?
After all what they are doing is bad to the people just like genocide.
Free data to the people!
__________________
Ignorance is bliss.
-
Life is all about joy.
zappater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 14:55   Link #9
tanuki
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Raiden
I fully agree. They just don't get it. Technology can be used to improve their business model, increase their profits and actually help them, but to them its a scary new monster. On top of that the RIAA/MPAA doesn't like to change. I admit that the studios themselves keep looking for new and better ways to make movies, but they fail to see the newer and better ways that technology can provide them for distributing their content. But that's another story.
Rather than solving a problem the efforts by the RIAA/MPAA directed against individual consumers is more likely to push some or many towards hoarding and trying to download even more of anything that remotely looks interesting. Similar in a way to how things were prior to prohibition taking effect in the US. The people who drank knew what was coming and were buying up every bottle of booze they could afford and hoarding it out of sight. In some cases buying beer, wine, or whatever that they wouldn't normally touch even if someone was handing it out for free. The modern equivalent might be something like "Wow, someone just posted a bt link to an episode of 'Little House on the Prairie', I better get this fast while I still can!". Ugh.
tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 17:31   Link #10
Lord Raiden
Uber Coffee for da win!
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Middle of insanity
Well, that's certainly one way to look at it. Too bad they'll have to learn the hard way that if you make something like downloading music illegal, everyone will want to do it. Make it legal, and the interest will quickly die off or wane considerably. It's been proven before in numerous situations. Prohibition is a good example of this. There was more alcohol bought during prohibition and the couple of years proceeding it than after it because it was illegal and it was cool to do illegal things. It's human nature. Take away the incentives to download music and you take away the interests to do it.

Here's another example. A hotel down in florida (name escapes me right now) used to have a sign in their hotel rooms that read "Don't fish from the balcony" because their east side windows were all directly above either the ocean, or some lake nearby. Either way, the reason behind it was because of a restaurant they had on the first floor (you've seen pictures of it in hurricane footage where the waves bust through the windows of the restaurant) had glass windows that were close to the waterline. IF someone tossed in a line it was very likely that the sinker would smack the window and break it. Well, this never happened before they put up the sign but happened none stop after they put up the signs. Once they took them down, the problem went away.

RIAA and MPAA can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that sure, you go after the people actually pirating and making money off your stuff, but DON'T go after the customers because they're downloading music or movies. Where are they profiteering? They're not. The true pirates of music and movies are the ones costing the industry money by taking away sales. Downloaders of music and movies interestingly enough fall into two catagores.

1. They would never, ever, ever for any reason buy the movie on DVD or pay to watch it in the theaters. SO since they'd never pay money to see the movie anyways (heck, a lot of these people will wait for it to come on TV for free even or copy it from a friend) the industry is not loosing money because these people will never be customers, so since there is nothing to gain, there can be no loss.
2. These people who make up the vast majority of downloaders actually download movies and music to preview it. Then if they like what they heard, they DO go out and buy the music and movies. The industry should be courting these potential customers simply because these are the same people who WOULD NOT have bought the same music or movies had they not downloaded them and previewed them first.

I'm not saying that we should make everything free on the net, but we should definately encourage people to buy the products after they download them. IF you look at the leachers here at AS. About 70% (this is my guess because I don't have any hard facts, so take it with a grain of salt) of the people here who download anime from AS actually buy the anime series after they've downloaded it. I know I certainly have. Same with manga. I've honestly bought about 4-5x's more anime and manga since fansubbing and scanslating came around than before.

Another one of the bigger problems with the media industry as a whole (not just riaa and the mpaa) is that with the exception of some in the industry, the big players would prefer to keep using the same tired, worn out, beaten to death things going and reuse them over and over and over and over again until they're beyond dead before moving to something newer. People want new and fresh. The industry prefers to move along like a rock. IE only move when you're forced to. Then when you can stop, just stay there as long as you can till you have to move again. It's stupid. Problem is, these guys have heads thicker than a granite mountain. *sigh*

Anywho, until the industry is ready to move in sync with their customers rather than attack them frequently and extort them for ludicrious amounts of cash, then they will continue to be stuck in the same situation they are now and no amount of lawsuits or legislation will stop it.

(EDIT: Damn I'm long winded. o_0;;)
__________________
Visit my new writing website at:
www.realmsofimagination.net
Lord Raiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-23, 19:52   Link #11
HoboGod
Necromancer
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Cardboard Box
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Raiden
(EDIT: Damn I'm long winded. o_0;
don't worry about it, all the posts in threads involving the RIAA are either long winded or troll-like bashing of RIAA. ^_^

Personally, i prefer to watch movies and listen to music when it is distributed privately. the RIAA and MPAA have really gotten so scornful of their consumers that i've lost the flavor for alot of major record labels and movie distribution companies. When they started playing those "Piracy is wrong" ads in their movies and then doubled the advertisements to go along with it... i felt sick.
__________________

"All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
<(^.^<) 2 wrongs make a right, 3 rights make a left. (>^.^)>
HoboGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-24, 00:08   Link #12
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Raiden
I'm not saying that we should make everything free on the net, but we should definately encourage people to buy the products after they download them. IF you look at the leachers here at AS. About 70% (this is my guess because I don't have any hard facts, so take it with a grain of salt) of the people here who download anime from AS actually buy the anime series after they've downloaded it. I know I certainly have. Same with manga. I've honestly bought about 4-5x's more anime and manga since fansubbing and scanslating came around than before.
Hmm, I' can't honestly say I've bought a series that I would not have if I hadn't downloaded it first, with the possible exception of shingetsutan tsukihime. IF someone would license da capo, kanon, hikaru no go, or kgne, that would change though, as they are all series I wouldn't give a second glance to if my first encounter with them was on a store shelf. I also can't think of anything that I would have bought had I not downloaded it, especially since my car is taking up a good chunk of my money which I would have otherwise spent on anime. Now if I didn't buy a car, Im sure I would have put a lot more money in the hands of anime distributers, but when forced to chose between a car and anime the car wins. Personally I think they should give away free anime with the purchase of a car, so no one will ever have to make such a painful choice again.
__________________
Kamui4356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-24, 00:45   Link #13
LynnieS
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: China
What do they intend to do with people who watch TV on their computers if this passes? Make them keep the PCs on 27x7 with no downtime? Hope they're planning to subsidize electricity and electronic purchases, then.

It just sounds like the usual vague doubletalk that goes on in politics.

Side note. Data, however, is not free. It costs money to collect, money to collate, money to interpret, money to store, money to distribute, and so on. If people want to and can eat the costs, then they can, but it's still their call.
__________________
"If ignorance is bliss, then why aren't more people happy?" -- Misc.

Currently listening: Nadda
Currently reading: Procrastination for the win!
Currently playing: "Quest of D", "Border Break" and "Gundam Senjou no Kizuna".
Waiting for: "Shining Force Cross"!
LynnieS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-24, 01:33   Link #14
phoenixfire92983
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
Age: 30
Send a message via ICQ to phoenixfire92983 Send a message via AIM to phoenixfire92983 Send a message via MSN to phoenixfire92983
It looks like they drastically changed the bill. HR2391 was revised to SB3021 and passed in the Senate. Now it needs to be passed in the House in December.

People who bring camcorders into movie theaters to leech will be punished and we will still be allowed to skip commercials and previews. The article also says that there's no new punishments for file sharers. Overall, not too bad compared to the original.

Here's the link to the article
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,65796,00.html
phoenixfire92983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-24, 01:44   Link #15
STfan
Homicidal Kitty.
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Arcueid's arms, getting my blood drained by the neck. Or at least I wish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Raiden
Not to be brash or abrasive here, but the RIAA and the MPAA can go kiss my little white a**. I don't care what laws they pass, I WILL do what I want with the media I own and they can kiss my a** if they think they're going to change it. Block me from burning DVD's, fine, I'll just hack my drive to get around your security. Try to send me to jail for doing it. Fine, I'll just conseal my activities. Try to peak in on what I'm doing. I'll just hide my machine. Block me from getting any hardware that allows me to do ANYTHING you don't like. Fine, I'll go out of the country and buy my hardware there

....

I'm sorry if I sound a bit crass, but this is a sore subject with me. I'm going to stop now before I get really obnoxious about this corporate powered greed induced money gorging fest. Gauds I hate greed.
Except that this doesn't solve anything, and in the case you do get caught and "get done" for whatever you do in your adolescent rage, this won't help you either.

I wouldn't say you're being crass or abrasive; you're just not stopping to think beyond the knee-jerk response. It seems to be a fad to hate on the RIAA. Whatever philosophy that was spouted over the cup of hemlock seems to have died nowadays.
__________________

We love you, Arcueid!
STfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-24, 02:29   Link #16
ff7799
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to ff7799 Send a message via MSN to ff7799
well if they actually pass this bill the music industry and movie can officially send the fbi in to arrest even the smallest fireshare user and file share creators as well.
ff7799 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-24, 04:39   Link #17
Inuzuka
now with 20% more ego!
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to Inuzuka
Quote:
Originally Posted by STfan
Except that this doesn't solve anything, and in the case you do get caught and "get done" for whatever you do in your adolescent rage, this won't help you either.

I wouldn't say you're being crass or abrasive; you're just not stopping to think beyond the knee-jerk response.
I think he (Lord Raiden) is fully aware that his statements won't change the current situation, but this is a forum after all and sharing your ideas with others is the point of a forum in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STfan
It seems to be a fad to hate on the RIAA.
Seems?
Inuzuka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-24, 05:24   Link #18
tanuki
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixfire92983
It looks like they drastically changed the bill. HR2391 was revised to SB3021 and passed in the Senate. Now it needs to be passed in the House in December.

People who bring camcorders into movie theaters to leech will be punished and we will still be allowed to skip commercials and previews. The article also says that there's no new punishments for file sharers. Overall, not too bad compared to the original.

Here's the link to the article
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,65796,00.html
Looking at the bottom of the article, I can't see how they managed to come up with 50 pages in the bill related to standards in professional boxing. Sounds like someones pet legislation was slipped in and they hoped that the push to pass the bills other provisions might make some reluctant to attack and kill the legislation over one section which was unrelated to copyright law.
tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-24, 10:15   Link #19
STfan
Homicidal Kitty.
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Arcueid's arms, getting my blood drained by the neck. Or at least I wish.
I'd recommend a more powerful and perfectly legal form of protest than complaining or breaking the law.

Just boycott MPAA and RIAA goods/services.

I do know it isn't a simple matter, especially if you're attached to the stuff they make. But then ... now I'm beginning to ramble.
__________________

We love you, Arcueid!
STfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-11-24, 11:41   Link #20
Lord Raiden
Uber Coffee for da win!
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Middle of insanity
I agree. IF you want to get your point across, don't use, listen to, or watch any of their members products. Get your friends and family to do the same and fully explain why, then have them get their friends and other family members involved. After a while you'll get the whole town involved and much, much more.

You also have to explain why, and to some people that's going to be hard, because to them they don't see how this will affect them and they may even see the side of the RIAA/MPAA at which point your arguments seem like those of a thieves. IE: "I stole that car because I wanted to." which will fly with them about as well as a lead balloon. If you're going to argue with them about this, argue with them about how much more this is going to cost them in the long run. Tell them about how RIAA/MPAA plans to ransack their pockets for every dime they can get. Go the money route. You wanna see someone turn against something in a hurry, bring money into the picture. That is the one thing that will turn someone for or against something really bloody quick.l

You don't believe me that this is true? Then why do so many people stand in line for super market specials of no name products instead of just always buying the same products that they like and know well. It's because it's cheaper and less money is involved on their part. So if you use money as an argument, you will easily win. And if you need examples as to what they will do to gouge you for money, there's more than sufficient examples on the net. More than I care to list. -_-;;
__________________
Visit my new writing website at:
www.realmsofimagination.net
Lord Raiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.