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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 1st - rating
Perfect 10 59 43.70%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 40 29.63%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 8.89%
7 out of 10 : Good 17 12.59%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.48%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.74%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.74%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.22%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-09-06, 16:05   Link #2321
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
It would make more sense to say that while Precia knew body-enhance and attack spells, she had no combat SKILLS.
As in, she's not good at hand-to-hand combat. That I can live with.

Otherwise, I'm going with Archon's hilarious interpretation, and I hope that Precia gets hired at the nearest KFC.
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Old 2011-09-06, 19:11   Link #2322
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
As in, she's not good at hand-to-hand combat. That I can live with.
Combat skills are more than hand-to-hand techniques. It also includes strategy and tactics.

Precia may have a lot of powerful spells, but that doesn't mean she knows which one is best to use in which situation, or how to set them up in a tactical combination. Also, most of them wouldn't be tuned or refined properly for personal combat, because she lacks the experience to know what those spells ought to do.


Recall how easily Fate was defeated by Chrono in the manga, because she didn't have the experience to guess he might set up a Delayed Bind in his blindspot.

Chrono wasn't never as strong as Fate in a raw power sense, but he was much better skilled at using what he had to work with.

And both Nanoha and Fate were defeated by a single AA mage using a standard Storage Device, because that old lady was simply THAT skilled.
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Old 2011-09-06, 19:39   Link #2323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Combat skills are more than hand-to-hand techniques. It also includes strategy and tactics.
I don't agree with the idea that Precia has no strategic or tactical abilities whatsoever. However, I would be able to agree with the idea that she has no training whatsoever in hand-to-hand combat.

I mean, she displayed some semblance of strategy in how she went about trying to achieve her objectives in both this movie, and in the original TV anime.
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Old 2011-09-06, 20:13   Link #2324
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There's a difference between being smart and an accomplish scientist, and being really good with ALL sorts of brainy things.

Precia has never trained to fight, nor has she regularly engaged in combat. I'm not saying she's stupid, but being smart is never enough against an opponent who IS smart AND skilled.
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Old 2011-09-06, 20:23   Link #2325
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Precia may have a lot of powerful spells, but that doesn't mean she knows which one is best to use in which situation, or how to set them up in a tactical combination. Also, most of them wouldn't be tuned or refined properly for personal combat, because she lacks the experience to know what those spells ought to do.
Well, she certainly know when to use her magic to blast Arf away. And i'm confident to say Arf IS a skilled magic user.
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Old 2011-09-06, 21:21   Link #2326
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Arf was enraged. She wasn't thinking clearly, and she sure as heck wasn't fighting smart.
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Old 2011-09-06, 21:31   Link #2327
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Most of Arf's combat in the movie was that way--it was all fueled by rage, her primary emotion seemed to be getting pissed off whenever Nanoha or Yuuno appeared to get in the way.

The fact that Precia knows magic spells that can cross dimensions JUST to injure someone shows that she has some combat capabilities. Plus, she took out those mooks. The only thing that really limited Precia was her dying body; her use of magic was killing her.
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Old 2011-09-06, 22:05   Link #2328
Tiresias
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I must have missed this. How can they say that on the track when Precia kicks the ass of all those Enforcers?
Strange. I'm pretty sure Chrono was the only Enforcer on the Athra, and the blue-robes were marines attached to his operation. There was no mention of them being exceptionally skilled in combat - decent, perhaps, but not elite (plus none of them even think to properly bind Precia before exploring which is pretty sloppy; even if the target doesn't show any struggle, a cop was supposed to handcuff 'em anyway)
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Old 2011-09-07, 00:31   Link #2329
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Give the guys some credit, they at least seemed to know how to work as a group, and Precia more likely have prepared to be cornered after attacking the Arthra. Even if the agents are more combat skilled than her Precia still is an unholy powerfull mage that very probably prepared an area spell to welcome the poor guys.
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Old 2011-09-07, 07:32   Link #2330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Strange. I'm pretty sure Chrono was the only Enforcer on the Athra, and the blue-robes were marines attached to his operation. There was no mention of them being exceptionally skilled in combat - decent, perhaps, but not elite (plus none of them even think to properly bind Precia before exploring which is pretty sloppy; even if the target doesn't show any struggle, a cop was supposed to handcuff 'em anyway)
This is where it gets confusing, because Enforcers are shown to look just like troops. Chrono requests Enforcers in A's, and gets guys that look just like the ones we saw in S1. At any rate, regardless of what you call them, Precia used attack spells on them.

Also, Precia knows how to use a whip, so she's semi-skilled with it. If an unskilled person tries to crack a whip, odds are they are going to hurt themselves.
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Old 2011-09-07, 08:17   Link #2331
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From what I remember of the sub I watched, they never call those troops "enforcers" in the movie, just "mages". I'm not sure how accurate that sub was, but I like it this way. It fixes that particular inconsistency and brings things closer to the StrikerS portrayal of enforcers as respected high-ranking detectives/agents/whatever.

I also remember Chrono being called a "commissioned officer" or something like that, which would make him navy personnel, rather than an enforcer - which fits with him being made a captain/admiral.
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Old 2011-09-07, 09:53   Link #2332
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Give the guys some credit, they at least seemed to know how to work as a group, and Precia more likely have prepared to be cornered after attacking the Arthra. Even if the agents are more combat skilled than her Precia still is an unholy powerful mage that very probably prepared an area spell to welcome the poor guys.
I didn't say they should have won - like you said they're in enemy territory, where Precia holds the advantage...which means they should have really take no chances and bind her as soon as the opportunity presents itself

If these guys are Enforcers, then their claim of having high standard is bull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
At any rate, regardless of what you call them, Precia used attack spells on them.
My best guess is that her spells were, during the events of the Movie, not yet classified as "combat" magic and more for non-combat purposes (Electricity research? I seem to recall her former work being in an electric company, but the source keeps eluding me ) but she weaponized them for her goals - perhaps akin to using firetrucks to quell demonstrations?

Ah, what the heck. "Tsuzuki" and "consistent continuity" has in several times prove a poor match anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaunt88 View Post
I also remember Chrono being called a "commissioned officer" or something like that, which would make him navy personnel, rather than an enforcer - which fits with him being made a captain/admiral.
Shitsumukan (執務官) can be translated as both Enforcers and Commissioned Officer.
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Old 2011-09-07, 18:27   Link #2333
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From what I recall, the only time Precia's previous job was mentioned, was the either the movie or the movie manga, where she was working on a project that was a new power source. Something about extracting extra-dimensional energy or something.

There is one other prospect, and that's that what Precia used was simply the Garden of Time's weaponry. Both an internal defense system to hit the mages, and an external weapon system to hit the Arthra.
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Old 2011-09-07, 18:36   Link #2334
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I'd buy that if it weren't for the fact that the lightning wielded by Precia is the exact same color as her magic circle--purple. Just like Fate's lightning is the same color as her own magic circle--yellow.

From what I've noticed in both the movie and in StrikerS is that magic used by mooks is a bluish-white color, without fail. The mages in StrikerS during the Cradle fight all shot blue energy shots, which, given the named characters and their varying magic colors is highly unlikely.

So did the jumbo-mode machine Nanoha and Fate took down--it used the exact same energy color. And chances are, since its pre-StrikerS and thus pre-non-magic weaponry, the machine likely drew magic for the attack.

So I'm guessing that the staves wielded by the Bureau and the attacks wielded by the machine draw out planetary mana to power them, or something to that effect. Wild theory but it's a theory.

Getting back to my original point, with the above in mind, if Precia was using magic weaponry that was integrated into the Garden of Time, it likely would've been bluish-white in color.

Plus, IIRC, in the movie they traced the magic attack as Precia's, giving more precedence that it was Precia herself using those magic attacks rather than a weapon of some sort.
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Old 2011-09-07, 18:47   Link #2335
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Plus, it's a very good justification for her otherwise non-visible SS-rank
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Old 2011-09-07, 18:50   Link #2336
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Even when using technology to enhance one's own magic, one's magic retains its color.

Precia is surely powerful, but she might have been using the Garden of Time to enhance her attack.
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Old 2011-09-07, 19:25   Link #2337
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Well, i can accept that as the justification for her inter-dimensinal lightning attack(even if canon hasn't mentioned something like this) but i'm pretty sure she blasted Arf and the TSAB soldiers with her own power.
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Old 2011-09-07, 19:31   Link #2338
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Given the inherent dangers of magic amplification as seen in the series, both in the untested, prototype Blaster System and Precia's own usage of magic in the original season, that the Garden of Time has a weapon system that draws magic off of a single user seems both risky and unnecessary--it'd be far more efficient and far less dangerous to the wielder to draw the mana elsewhere, like the Saint's Cradle does with Mid-Childa's twin moons.

Precia's use of magic was killing her and she wouldn't risk using something that'd kill her faster before her chance at reviving Alicia was realized. So no--I'm certain that the magic Precia used was her own magic and not a weapon of the Garden's.
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Old 2011-09-07, 19:43   Link #2339
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The Blaster System was an attempt to get more power out of the Mage + Intelligence Device combination than the combination normally enjoys.

Using a Device itself as an amplifier is what using a Device is FOR.

The Garden of Time is just a bigger Device. With more room for bigger computers and an independent powersource to add to the mix.

Drawing energy from the powersource wouldn't be any different from using the extra mana from cartridges or Starlight Breaker. Except for the SHEER AMOUNT.


So no. The Blaster System and the Garden of Time are completely different.

The danger of the Blaster System isn't about being "big". It's about being bigger than Nanoha and Raising Heart should be.
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Old 2011-09-07, 19:55   Link #2340
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Except that such specifications about the Garden of Time are only speculation while Blaster system and Intelligent Devices are explored and explained by canon.
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