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Old 2004-11-15, 18:31   Link #21
Keldran
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by s'my
Oh my goodness yeah, I've read the book, but it was quite some time ago and I can't remember all the details.
Spoiler for the book:
Of course like I said I can't remember the finer details of the novel right now and if you can draw some parallels between the book and the anime I'd be interested to hear, um read.

Well for me it's actually the opposite, I recently finished the book but haven't watched Haibane Renmei in quite awhile. Anyways...
Spoiler for major book & series spoilers:

Of course I need to give the standard advisories: this is all just me thinking out loud and the connections I make can be either real or imagined.
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Old 2004-11-15, 19:55   Link #22
arias
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Suprisingly, I wasn't extremely satisfied when I finished watching Haibane.. It felt so.. episodic. I spent about 6-10 hours researching on Haibane Renmei after that, and read up alot on the speculation of the nature of the Haibane and the walled city, as well as their "day of ascent".

It's pretty amazing how it's become so dear to me now; I haven't watched it again, but somehow among all the anime on my HDD, it's the only one I couldn't bear to delete even after I burned it.

If you do enough research, you'll notice that Yoshitoshi ABe wrote the script, and it was at the point of his life where he could look back and more clearly understand past events; but it was also the point where he wasn't TOO detached from the events (too old). If memory serves me right, he mentioned something about his friend in his younger years, who committed suicide and left the world prematurely, as well as various other problems.

For ABe, the show was a pretty big risk.. of course there's some kawaii factor inside, but producing Haibane Renmei was a pretty risky venture because it wasn't of the popular mould (this is all extracted from interviews with ABe-san). Fortunately, it was a success, and could have been more of a success if it wasn't shown 2 episodes back-to-back per week in it's final weeks. So as you see, the show was really quite a personal, unique... poem, if you will.

There are much things that I don't understand in Haibane, even after reading so much.. these are mere speculation, but like some posters earlier said; it isn't really about the questions and answers. There's a certain "tint" to Haibane, and a certain... real quality to it that just slowly seeps into me. Now I honestly think of it as an anime close to my heart; but it certainly isn't for everyone.

Some auxiliary points... Haibane also has totally awesome music; both soundtrack and the arranged version (both of which I have) are incredible listening experiences.. The doujinshii of Haibane Renmei is pretty funny, too.

== Haibane sources

http://sweet-akari.net/haibane/
http://cff.ssw.net/
http://cff.ssw.net/forum/viewforum.p...764b2f7c7ec1e3

(The last link to the board is INSANE, it has these die-hard Haibane fans who do all these crazy research. One is translating the episodes into script-form with his Japanese teacher and they together have also translated many linear notes of sorts. Discussion in some posts are also top notch)
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Old 2004-11-15, 22:03   Link #23
s'my
watashi wa chiisaikeredo
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
I, too, was not completely satisfied after initially completing HR and spent MANY hours /days trolling the net for discussions on the series. And yes, I stumbled across seikai no hajimari as well - great site and the Old Home Bulletin Board saved my sanity during that time when I was trying to figure out what I'd just watched.
From all the discussions, the conclusion I reached was that there is no one correct interpretation, even ABe himself perhaps does not have an "answer" to give. After all, wasn't he still coming up with the script even as earlier episodes were being produced. I feel that the series presents us with just enough ideas (where did we come from and how? where are we going? how do we go from the past to the present to the future without being stuck in any one place?) to make us think / discuss / feel, and that even as ABe himself used the series to work thru some of his (really personal) issues, we can use it to think thru some of our own as well.
Spoiler for back to discussing the book and series:
Gotta go now, will have to resume this later.
PS just checked out the Old Home Bulletin board again and the discussion is still going on, amazing!

Last edited by s'my; 2004-11-18 at 04:12. Reason: typos
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Old 2004-11-16, 21:17   Link #24
TronDD
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One thing that caught my attention during the show that I thought would become important but didn't really:

There seemed to be a parallel with the lives of the Haibane and the crows. For some reason the Haibane seemed to dislike the crows because they were scavengers feeding off the waste of others. Yet the haibane themselves are scavengers. They are only allowed to have things second hand, things that have been cast away by humans.

What did that have to do with anything?
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Old 2004-11-17, 12:08   Link #25
Kensuke
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I enjoyed this show, even thought the haibane didn't know what they were, they have managed to get into society, and I liked how they named themselves after their dreams, althought again they didn't know what those dreams were about.
Generally warm hearted (but also dark series), wonderful animation and music, and enjoyable characters.
To me, Haibane Renmei is the kind of series that I would like to show to someone who haven't seen much anime and thinks its only for kids.

But I was little confused when it changes its theme after first half. All those questions about Glie and haibane was left unanswered, and I was fully prepared to hear somekind of explanations. To me that was only really bad about Haibane Renmei.
I finished HR this summer when bought the last DVD, but so far I have watched the entire series only once, so I quess there is much that I have missed.
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Old 2004-11-17, 15:31   Link #26
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensuke
But I was little confused when it changes its theme after first half. All those questions about Glie and haibane was left unanswered, and I was fully prepared to hear somekind of explanations. To me that was only really bad about Haibane Renmei.
I think they wanted to leave it open-ended for the viewer to ponder about it. Man... I wish I had the money to buy vol 3 and 4 earlier, now they're out of pencilboards
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Old 2004-11-18, 04:08   Link #27
s'my
watashi wa chiisaikeredo
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by TronDD
One thing that caught my attention during the show that I thought would become important but didn't really:

There seemed to be a parallel with the lives of the Haibane and the crows. For some reason the Haibane seemed to dislike the crows because they were scavengers feeding off the waste of others. Yet the haibane themselves are scavengers. They are only allowed to have things second hand, things that have been cast away by humans.

What did that have to do with anything?
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-11-22, 01:12   Link #28
The Yellow Dwarf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keldran
It was written by a well known author in Japan (Murakami) back in '91 and features a similar surreal walled town that only birds can freely traverse. Now I don't care about the similarities and I'm certainly not trying to call Haibane Renmei a ripoff, but perhaps a greater understanding of Haibane Renmei can be had if it is discussed in relation to its greatest 'source' material. Perhaps I'll do more of this later.
I think the similairities between the novel and the anime ends at the setting. The book, IMO, is really just a sci-fi fiction with a bit of typical Murakami rant thrown in (isolation, loneliness, etc.). But you gotta admit, the "End of the World" is a really intriguing concept (I have actually stolen it for my own roleplay campaigns as well.) Speaking of similarities, andybody thinks Reki's painting seems to borrow some similar scenes from Somerset Maugham's Moon and Sixpence?
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Old 2004-11-24, 01:16   Link #29
STfan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Arcueid's arms, getting my blood drained by the neck. Or at least I wish.
The one thing about the series that disappointed me was the ripoff of the Christian notion of "sinner". That kind of polluted it.

Other than that, I must say it is perfect.
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Old 2004-11-24, 01:39   Link #30
arias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STfan
The one thing about the series that disappointed me was the ripoff of the Christian notion of "sinner". That kind of polluted it.

Other than that, I must say it is perfect.
Are you joking?

I don't understand. Why?
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Old 2004-11-24, 01:41   Link #31
STfan
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Location: In Arcueid's arms, getting my blood drained by the neck. Or at least I wish.
Which part of my little statement does your post refer to?
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Old 2004-11-24, 01:49   Link #32
NoSanninWa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
Are you joking?

I don't understand. Why?
To one with a non-Christian background the Christian concept of "sinner" seems odd, if not offensive. There's a world of distance between a "sinner" and one who is lost in the distractions and attachments of this world.

Honestly though, it seemed to be a much more eastern concept in Haibane Renmei. If you saw the show through to the final episode please click on my spoiler for my explanation.

Spoiler for Final episode:


It is also worth noting that a healthy Haibane has wings that are neither black nor white, but are gray. That is because they must be able to accept both pain and joy in equal measure.

The show may use the word sin, but the concepts that it embodies are most definitely not Christian
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Old 2004-11-24, 01:56   Link #33
STfan
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Location: In Arcueid's arms, getting my blood drained by the neck. Or at least I wish.
I disagree, NSW.

Spoiler for rebuttal:


Haibane Renmei has quite a few Christian themes to it. The concept of "sin" is a Christian one, as well as the way to get out of it.
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Old 2004-11-24, 02:25   Link #34
NoSanninWa
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I see what you mean.
Spoiler for finale:


I can't say that you are wrong though. I think that the show has evidence to support us both. I'll stick with my interpretation because it makes me happier.

Though... Touga's monologue (name correct?) about sin (at the well) makes a bit more sense when viewed your way... So perhaps a bit more of the evidence is on your side... Perhaps I saw it the way I did because I don't think like a Christian. The point about needing to ask for help to escape sin totally went over my head.
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Old 2004-11-24, 02:33   Link #35
Bahamut God
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TronDD
One thing that caught my attention during the show that I thought would become important but didn't really:

There seemed to be a parallel with the lives of the Haibane and the crows. For some reason the Haibane seemed to dislike the crows because they were scavengers feeding off the waste of others. Yet the haibane themselves are scavengers. They are only allowed to have things second hand, things that have been cast away by humans.

What did that have to do with anything?
Another parallel is that like the crows, the Hahibane can also go over the walls, they just can't come back.

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-11-24, 10:10   Link #36
STfan
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Location: In Arcueid's arms, getting my blood drained by the neck. Or at least I wish.
I'm also not a Christian. I've just studied several religions of the world.
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Old 2004-11-25, 00:19   Link #37
s'my
watashi wa chiisaikeredo
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut God
Another parallel is that like the crows, the Hahibane can also go over the walls, they just can't come back.

The reason ABe created an alternate universe was to remove people from their prejudged ideas. If it was based in the real world, people would be too quick to fit Buddest, or Shintoist, or Christen, ect... values ont the show By removing them from our experience it allowed him to create a world that people could come at with an open mind.
That's a good point; I really don't think ABe meant the series to be a reflection of any belief system, it's rather a framework that he's constructed for us to build our own ideas and discussion on. However like any thinking human being I'm sure he must have been influenced at least subconsciously by different ideas/sources, hence we ourselves can recognize underlying tones of Christianity/Buddhism/parallels to the novel etc. I might have misinterpreted your first sentence but the crows can come back over the walls.
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Old 2005-01-02, 00:31   Link #38
The Yellow Dwarf
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by STfan
The one thing about the series that disappointed me was the ripoff of the Christian notion of "sinner". That kind of polluted it.

Other than that, I must say it is perfect.
Hmm....I don't understand. Why would a rip-off of Christian notion of "sinner" ruin the show? (Well, keep in mind that forgiveness is not given by a god in CFF, so it's not a total rip-off).

Last edited by The Yellow Dwarf; 2005-01-02 at 00:49.
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Old 2005-01-03, 11:42   Link #39
kujoe
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Age: 32
I'm Christian, but not once did I relate this show to anything related to Christianity. (Except maybe the halos and the wings..) Well, I'm not the most devout Catholic in the world--far from it actually. Moreover, I didn't even relate this series with what limited knowledge of Buddhism I have.

I think the story of Haibane Renmei can be understood from both, but I also think there's a danger in this--in the sense, that such strict interpretations may end up being limited within such well-defined perspectives. For me, the struggles and conflicts that the characters face are very intimate, personal and interpersonal, and perhaps even metaphysical in some way. That's what's certain in the show--at least for me.

This discussion reminds me that I still have to watch this series all over again, since during the first time I watched it, I simply watched it for what it was. Anyway I just want to say that a lot of the stuff posted here are quite interesting, so keep it up guys.
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Old 2006-06-20, 06:11   Link #40
combat kitten
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i just want to post my thoughts.
first off sin is not just a christian concept. its a part of every religion.
the idea is a mixture of buddhism and christianity.
this anime is surreal just like Silent Hill 2 ( only part 2 ) for the ppl that read through the story guides will know what i mean.
i still believe that the dust feathered are children that died.
and the one with sin is the ones that commited suicide
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