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Old 2011-09-12, 19:39   Link #16501
ChainLegacy
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
The US and Britain are more different then you think, I can think of a lot more countries that share more similarities. Britain and the US are socially, culturally and economically very different. Don't make any assumption. About the only similiarity is that both countries speak English. Besides that, the US is top dog in the world at the moment, so naturally if there's any country people are going to hate on, it's going to be the US.

Who else are Brits going to hate on? The French and Germans? That's a given, but it's as much a "national rivalry" as actual hatred. Besides those countries have not done anything in living memory for Brits to oppose. The United States on the other hand...
They're not the same country, but the shared history, cultural and political traditions as well as approach to imperialism (the US has evolved Britain's system into the present, more subtle state) make them quite similar. The cultural ties began anew in the 60's especially musically, continued with Reagan and Thatcher in the 80's; I don't see where you're coming from at all. And I think 'about the only similarity is that both countries speak English' is a laughable statement, really think about that one a bit more deeply.

And what is this hate on thing? The Brits have been more politically tied to the US than ever before since WWII. If anything, the hatred for US warfare is SHARED by the US; you saw the counterculture against Vietnam spread into Britain, and popular sentiment in the US for the current wars has been anything but high since the years after 9/11.

Anyways, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree here. Because when it comes down to it it is opinionated on some level, and from the perspective of a fundamental Muslim I don't think the difference between the US and UK are as noticeable/remarkable as they are to us.
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Old 2011-09-12, 20:02   Link #16502
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...3JI4.DTL&tsp=1

Two men pleaded not guilty to murder charges Monday in the daylight shooting that killed a 3-year-old boy in East Oakland.


Lawrence Curtis Denard, 26, and Willie Torrence, 22, entered their pleas in Alameda County Superior Court in Oakland. Their attorneys declined comment after the brief hearing before Judge Carrie Panetta.



anyone know when Anon is scheduling a protest for the little boy?
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Old 2011-09-12, 20:39   Link #16503
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
They're not the same country, but the shared history, cultural and political traditions as well as approach to imperialism (the US has evolved Britain's system into the present, more subtle state) make them quite similar. The cultural ties began anew in the 60's especially musically, continued with Reagan and Thatcher in the 80's; I don't see where you're coming from at all. And I think 'about the only similarity is that both countries speak English' is a laughable statement, really think about that one a bit more deeply.

And what is this hate on thing? The Brits have been more politically tied to the US than ever before since WWII. If anything, the hatred for US warfare is SHARED by the US; you saw the counterculture against Vietnam spread into Britain, and popular sentiment in the US for the current wars has been anything but high since the years after 9/11.

Anyways, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree here. Because when it comes down to it it is opinionated on some level, and from the perspective of a fundamental Muslim I don't think the difference between the US and UK are as noticeable/remarkable as they are to us.
I've travelled extensively on both sides of the Atlantic, and I feel that besides language Britain shares as much with it's European neighbours as it does with the US. The main thing they both share in common is that they're both part of "western civilization", much of the things they share in common you can equally say for France.

Among the things where Britain and the US differ noticeably, and which causes most of the friction:
* Religious attitudes, Britain is not a very religious country, the United States on the other hand...
* Ethnicity, the US contains a mixture of many European ethnicities, Latin Americans, Chinese and Afro-Americans. Britain is much more predominantly British, with the largest minorities being Indians, Pakistanis, Afro-Carribeans and Chinese. Very different cultural mix.
* Britain is still quite aristocratic, much power is still held by the landed gentry, just look at the front bench of Conservative party. The United States is Plutocratic, all you need is a lot of money, doesn't really matter how old it is.
* Related to the above, Britain has a far larger divide between the (native) working class and the upper classes. The US has it far smaller, though instead it has the large numbers of Hispanics. But you can't really say that the US has a "working class" and an "upper class" culture very easily.
*Instead of a class divide, the US has more of a City/Country divide. The UK's City/Country divide is far less pronounced, for one thing it has a far smaller rural population.
*The UK has no problems with Socialism, large numbers of people in the US consider socialism an evil to be crushed.
*The UK and US do not share the same foreign policies. For instance the UK did not support the US in Vietnam, and the US actually opposed Britain over the Suez crisis.
*UK politics works completely differently from the United States.
*Very different attitudes to state power, particularly from conservatives. The UK has no problems with centralization of power in the state, in the US it's the opposite, where talk of the federal government being corrupt and evil is widespread.
*The UK actually had an Empire, America's Empire is far more figurative.
*The UK has more variation in terms of how English is spoken, the United States has less variation given it's size.
*The UK has very different tastes in Music, asides from the occasional blast of cross atlantic interest. Right now they're more different then ever.
*Very different media landscape. Britain has a strong tradition of Public television and Radio, until the advent of Cable it had very little commercial television. Also, a very different sense of humour. As an example, the US has many long running "family" sitcoms a la the Cosby show. Britain tends to have more varied settings, and few of them are long running. In fact, I can't name a British family sitcom at all.

There are parts of the US that the UK shares a lot more in common with, namely New England(coincidentally, where you're from...), but I would not extend that across the rest of the country. I'd certainly say that the South, Mid West and West Coast are very different from the UK. People in the UK would not share much feeling of kinship with people from the South, their attitudes are far too different.

Last edited by DonQuigleone; 2011-09-12 at 20:54.
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Old 2011-09-12, 22:02   Link #16504
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Unfortunately, I've run into more than a few vegans that don't actually do the research and are malnourished themselves (much less a kid). Its not that veganism is impossible or evil... its that quite a few adherents (at least in the US) are just damned stupid.
There so many bads reasons for opting for veganism, and even the goods ones seem more like case-to-case to me.
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Old 2011-09-13, 01:52   Link #16505
Fahd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
* Related to the above, Britain has a far larger divide between the (native) working class and the upper classes. The US has it far smaller, though instead it has the large numbers of Hispanics. But you can't really say that the US has a "working class" and an "upper class" culture very easily.
I'm not sure how you're defining native working class, but in terms of income ineqaulity (i.e. the ratio between what the wealthiest percentage earn and what the same least wealthy percentage earn) whilst the UK doesn't do very well, it does rank a few places higher than the US. There's also the distribution of wealth (i.e. money, assets, etc) amongst a countries population, where 10% of the US' population owns 80% of its wealth, whereas it's not that much better in the UK (10% own 70% of the wealth).
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Old 2011-09-13, 05:33   Link #16506
ganbaru
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Perry targeted by rivals in Republican debate
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7861J620110913
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Old 2011-09-13, 07:30   Link #16507
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Perry targeted by rivals in Republican debate
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7861J620110913
Quote:
...top of the polls.....
Who the fuck voted for a semi-retarded, mentally-challenged, panic and war monger like him?
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Old 2011-09-13, 07:36   Link #16508
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Who the fuck voted for a semi-retarded, mentally-challenged, panic and war monger like him?
How many american voted for Bush jr. for his second mandat ?
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Old 2011-09-13, 07:41   Link #16509
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
How many american voted for Bush jr. for his second mandat ?
I suppose that is due to Osama's troll speech that got more people to back Bush Jr. Bad idea.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-09-13, 08:58   Link #16510
andyjay729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Who the fuck voted for a semi-retarded, mentally-challenged, panic and war monger like him?
Unfortunately, a significant number of people actually think Bushie was a hero and Saddam hid his WMD's in Syria. They're the "hey, he was right all along!" crowd, so of course they'll line up to support this oily douche.

If he is elected prez, God forbid, well, that old aphorism will apply to this whole poor, stumbling country-"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice..."
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Old 2011-09-13, 09:32   Link #16511
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahd View Post
I'm not sure how you're defining native working class, but in terms of income ineqaulity (i.e. the ratio between what the wealthiest percentage earn and what the same least wealthy percentage earn) whilst the UK doesn't do very well, it does rank a few places higher than the US. There's also the distribution of wealth (i.e. money, assets, etc) amongst a countries population, where 10% of the US' population owns 80% of its wealth, whereas it's not that much better in the UK (10% own 70% of the wealth).
I'm not talking about income inequality, it has nothing to do it. I'm talking about culture, an English aristocrat has very little in common with a working class man. They speak differently, they eat differently, they enjoy very different entertainments, and they'll rarely, if ever, come into direct contact with one another. There is almost 2 seperate "parallel" cultures. In comparison, the United States doesn't really have much of an "upper class" other then the "Daughters of the American Revolution" type clique on the east coast.

The United States does not have a "high culture" or a "low culture" in the way the UK, and other European countries, have. There are cultural divides between different ethnic groups (EG Whites and Hispanics etc.), but within those ethnic groups (particularly whites, the majority culture), it varies more by geography then class.

The USA has a considerable economic divide, but a much lower Class divide, the only indicator of class in America is your wealth or fame. But there isn't much of a cultural one. For instance, everyone drinks Coke. In Britain that would be considered distinctly working class.

Upper class status is something all Americans can aspire towards, in Britain, a working class person can only at best be described as "nouveau riche".

Last edited by DonQuigleone; 2011-09-13 at 10:16.
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Old 2011-09-13, 11:16   Link #16512
sneaker
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I'll have to side with ChainLegacy on this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Anyways, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree here. Because when it comes down to it it is opinionated on some level, and from the perspective of a fundamental Muslim I don't think the difference between the US and UK are as noticeable/remarkable as they are to us.
The reason these immigrants go into the UK instead of the US:
- it's easier to get into
- many fellow countrymen or family members are already there (see #1)
- social benefits
- soft police force and justice system (or administration/politics in general)

Sometimes one of the western countries gets a bit more hatred than the others, like Denmark when those Muhammad cartoons were published, and yes, probably the US is the most hated. But they still hate all of the western societies. And aside from the economic reasons, they also dream of taking over Europe and turn it into a caliphate. So for them it makes perfect sense to immigrate, especially if they are radical Muslims.
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Old 2011-09-13, 12:08   Link #16513
sneaker
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Berlin police officer souses himself with gasoline and burns himself to death
The title says "bullying", but that does not quite fit it, which you'll learn after reading the article. He was only a few months away from retirement, and colleagues say that the reasons lay not in his personal life, but the way his superiors and the police force in general is only aiming to look good in statistics, instead of doing good old police work. He even said to a colleague: "They [the superiors] have burned me up".
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Old 2011-09-13, 14:02   Link #16514
ganbaru
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Taliban attack across Kabul, target U.S. Embassy
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78B61S20110913
That will not help to accelerate the leaving of foreing troup...
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Old 2011-09-13, 14:33   Link #16515
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Taliban attack across Kabul, target U.S. Embassy
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78B61S20110913
That will not help to accelerate the leaving of foreing troup...
Maybe thats their plan... this way they cause more damage. Do you know what it costs to keep those troops in the area, and who is a little short on money at the moment?
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Old 2011-09-13, 15:25   Link #16516
killer3000ad
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PLO pushes for UN recognition
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Old 2011-09-13, 15:46   Link #16517
Ithekro
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If things continue as people expect, the PLO is just spinning its wheels for nothing. A US veto will stop the bid cold. i can't tell if it is Israel or Palestine that is being unreasonable in the terms of renewing their talks anymore. Fatah, while more reasonable than Hamas, is still having issues with their own people.

While I'd rather them have just the West Bank, it looks like Israel would rather they had just Gaza, at least based on the levels of settlements going in around the Jordan River. Have there construction and districting commissions even suggested how far they will go pushing into the West Bank?
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Old 2011-09-13, 16:05   Link #16518
Vexx
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
If things continue as people expect, the PLO is just spinning its wheels for nothing. A US veto will stop the bid cold. i can't tell if it is Israel or Palestine that is being unreasonable in the terms of renewing their talks anymore. Fatah, while more reasonable than Hamas, is still having issues with their own people.

While I'd rather them have just the West Bank, it looks like Israel would rather they had just Gaza, at least based on the levels of settlements going in around the Jordan River. Have there construction and districting commissions even suggested how far they will go pushing into the West Bank?
My observation is that its like the Cold War was -- there were factions on each side that benefited greatly from the status quo and from any chaos. "See how bad it is, give me more power" The enemy isn't the "Palestination" or the "Israelite" ... its the people who profit in power or coin from the current situation.
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Old 2011-09-13, 18:12   Link #16519
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
If things continue as people expect, the PLO is just spinning its wheels for nothing. A US veto will stop the bid cold. i can't tell if it is Israel or Palestine that is being unreasonable in the terms of renewing their talks anymore. Fatah, while more reasonable than Hamas, is still having issues with their own people.

While I'd rather them have just the West Bank, it looks like Israel would rather they had just Gaza, at least based on the levels of settlements going in around the Jordan River. Have there construction and districting commissions even suggested how far they will go pushing into the West Bank?
I think the idea is to marginalise the US, if the USA is the only thing standing between Palestine and Statehood, that undermines American popularity. It focusses all the attention of America which probably is not to America's benefit.
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Old 2011-09-13, 19:07   Link #16520
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I think the idea is to marginalise the US, if the USA is the only thing standing between Palestine and Statehood, that undermines American popularity. It focusses all the attention of America which probably is not to America's benefit.
True if America and Israelare the only one against it, but if others countries vote against it, it will be another story...
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