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Old 2011-09-12, 14:33   Link #1361
Nina.Wolken
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The blond boy isn't the issue.

A speaking role for a "Mario Natsume" appeared in the credits (and was confirmed by Aranami herself) and the only character with lines in the episode who could not be accounted for by other credits is Himari's fated person.

So Mario is Himari's fated person, there isn't any question about that. Whether Mario is also the blond penguin boy is still in the air though.
Until this character is really introduced in the anime as such, I'm willing to doubt it. Sorry.
If the shadow boy is a whole new character, why not showing his face? Same goes for Himari. What is the problem in showing the fruit of Fate exchange if there is nothing to hide?
Could it be that they're trying to hide Mario's gender (damn, Triple_R ideas are making their way in my mind xD), is Mario someone from the cast we already know who would have change name...
Also, is that really Himari's memory? What if it was PoC's memory instead? Mario being her fated person instead of Himari's one?

What I know, is that I don't know who Mario is. For now.
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Old 2011-09-12, 15:05   Link #1362
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
What I know, is that I don't know who Mario is. For now.
Nobody knows who Mario really is. It could be Yamashita for all we know (or even Ringo), so that's not the point. I just said Himari's "fated one" is Mario, as this is the only character the credits could refer to. You agree with that, it seems, so there's no reason to argue about it IMO.
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Old 2011-09-12, 16:07   Link #1363
zeando
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Nobody knows who Mario really is. It could be Yamashita for all we know (or even Ringo), so that's not the point. I just said Himari's "fated one" is Mario, as this is the only character the credits could refer to. You agree with that, it seems, so there's no reason to argue about it IMO.
the point maybe was: basing the speculations on what has been showed in the show, using the credits feel a bit like using infos from the novel, in the way it hasn't been yet showed in the show but we already know about it o__o dunno if makes sense :/
call it mild spoilers
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Old 2011-09-12, 16:46   Link #1364
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Himari/ringo? please wake up...... ringo is totaly in love with the ex-boyfriend of her dead sister.... actualy ringo is sick with this obsession..... in the last episode an apple was given to himari and a memory of a boy maybe the apple represent "forbiden fruit" in a relationship her brother??
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Old 2011-09-12, 16:53   Link #1365
susyia
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Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
The eyes as "holes" in both worlds make sense to me, since they feat in the theory that :
-Princess of the Crystal is actually a "dead entity" who is not allowed to enter the world of living people
-Library is a parcel of life in the realm of death : Himari entered the Library the moment she died, to come back to life once she left it. Somehow, her soul didn't disappear like any other when she died but found refuge here (because she ate the fruit of destiny?).

Edit : To be noted also how once the Princess of the Crystal wakes up : right when she stop Sanetoshi, this is not Himari speaking it seems but the Princess, the Library vanished and Himari/Princess fall back to Himari's body. Why did the Library vanishes at that point? Because the Princess isn't allowed to be in this place (again, Pingroup.inc territory ie realm of the living).

As for the mouth... I may have push it a bit too far lol



It feats so perfectly I can't repress a smirk  ̄ー ̄)
Yeah this make sense
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Old 2011-09-12, 16:58   Link #1366
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'd honestly rather it be Kanba or Sho than a total background character.
The idea would be to NTR the crap out of Kanba, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeando View Post
the point maybe was: basing the speculations on what has been showed in the show, using the credits feel a bit like using infos from the novel, in the way it hasn't been yet showed in the show but we already know about it o__o dunno if makes sense :/
call it mild spoilers
They put his name in the credits, so they obviously want us to know about it already.
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Old 2011-09-12, 17:15   Link #1367
zeando
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
They put his name in the credits, so they obviously want us to know about it already.
you can see it like that, i prefer to try to ignore his existence untill it gets ufficially showed in the show
anyway just a name doesn't make much difference, except all the talk about kanba, and other unlikely possible fated mates of himari, have mostly vanished

have to give credit to that user who was able to get near to knowing it only looking at the show, making a connection based on the similarity of the eyes of the kid with the king penguin hat and natsume
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Old 2011-09-12, 17:17   Link #1368
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by susyia View Post
in the last episode an apple was given to himari and a memory of a boy maybe the apple represent "forbiden fruit" in a relationship her brother??
The apple represents the connection between the world of the living and death. This is almost spelled out for us with the fuck-ton of reference to the Night on the Galactic Railroad in episode 9. Even the name of the library, "The Hole in the Sky's Annex", is a reference to Miyazawa's novel.

EDIT: As a side note, even in the Christian belief the "forbidden fruit" doesn't refer to incest... at all. That's like a totally misplaced interpretation IMO.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-09-12 at 17:38.
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Old 2011-09-12, 17:31   Link #1369
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by zeando View Post
you can see it like that, i prefer to try to ignore his existence untill it gets ufficially showed in the show
anyway just a name doesn't make much difference, except all the talk about kanba, and other unlikely possible fated mates of himari, have mostly vanished
Regardless of your preference, it's a fact that Mario is Himari's 'fated one'. What that even means, and who Mario is, are still up for debate.

He could even be Kanba. Who the fuck knows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeando View Post
have to give credit to that user who was able to get near to knowing it only looking at the show, making a connection based on the similarity of the eyes of the kid with the king penguin hat and natsume
Except that the ending credits are a part of the show.
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Old 2011-09-12, 20:52   Link #1370
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Here's what I think we can safely assume about Mario:

1) Mario's related to Masako, most likely siblings. I'd be pretty shocked if having the same family name is a complete coincidence (unless the two names are drawn in different Japanese characters - does anybody here know if they are or not?)

2) If Mario is somebody we already know well, his (her?) name has changed. Why it's changed is anybody's guess, but it has changed. Unless he's a brand new character of course.

So to find out who Mario is, pay close attention to Masako.


One possible point in Ringo's favor: Both her and Masako refer to a "Project M". That could hint at some sort of relation between the two characters.

However, this is very scant evidence, and not much to go on, I fully admit. But I do think that the key to unlocking who Mario is probably goes through Masako.
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Old 2011-09-12, 20:58   Link #1371
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Mario's related to Masako, most likely siblings. I'd be pretty shocked if having the same family name is a complete coincidence (unless the two names are drawn in different Japanese characters - does anybody here know if they are or not?)
夏芽 真砂子, Natsume Masako

夏芽 マリオ, Natsume Mario
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Old 2011-09-12, 21:47   Link #1372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
夏芽 真砂子, Natsume Masako

夏芽 マリオ, Natsume Mario
Thanks! Ok, so they're probably related.
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Old 2011-09-12, 22:07   Link #1373
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Originally Posted by zeando View Post
the point maybe was: basing the speculations on what has been showed in the show, using the credits feel a bit like using infos from the novel, in the way it hasn't been yet showed in the show but we already know about it o__o dunno if makes sense :/
call it mild spoilers
Agree here. Using the credit is quite similar to using future episode name for speculation. They are there just due to commercialized reason rather purposely included. So please use spoiler for seiyuu/credits speculation or you will risk ruining the fun for others


Just try to make sense here:
- we have Character A, who Himari (or PoC) is possibly engaged with through the penguin hat (Penguinforce?). Likely to be that character with the Penguin King hat
- we have Character B, who Himari shared the food of fate with (Kiga). Some said it's possible that he/she is called Mario?
- we assumed that the characters A and B are one. But there's also a chance that they are different
- There's also character C who is reincarnation of B through child broiler. This could be anyone

So there could be three theories here:
  1. the boy with the hat is the same person Himari shared the fruit of fate with, who is named Mario and have not been introduced yet
  2. the boy with the hat is the same person Himari shared the fruit of fate with, who is reborn into one of the already introduced character
  3. the boy with the hat (Penguinforce), the person Himari shared the fruit with (Kiga), and the person Himari will be paired up with (Penguingroup), may not be the same person. This is a contest of fate between these three penguin fanatics organisation. Hence she will only known whose bride she is, "at the destination of fate"

PS: btw,i rewatched the broiler room screen, and the animation of those propeller are bloody damn detail. Hope they still can keep up with their budget
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Old 2011-09-13, 02:37   Link #1374
Gohan78
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, anyway, I just see Himari/Ringo as a viable theory at this juncture. I certainly don't think it's necessarily the most obvious one, or anything like that. Just something that I wouldn't be surprised to see eventually happen. I definitely now think it was worth putting out there for consideration.

We'll just have to wait and see how MPD goes from here.
Dude, you wear some really strong yuri glasses.
Ringo and Himari barely interacted three times in the whole show while Ringo and Shouma shared many significant moments. Sho even risked his life to save Ringo from a speeding car. This is the typical set up for the girl to fall in love with the selfless guy.
Also you cannot initiate a Survival Strategy between two girls.
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Old 2011-09-13, 04:06   Link #1375
Nina.Wolken
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Also you cannot initiate a Survival Strategy between two girls.
Easy, easy, it's still unclear if Survival Strategy is something like Ringo's project M. As far as we know, PoC is looking for "Penguin Drum", not a mate .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R
One possible point in Ringo's favor: Both her and Masako refer to a "Project M". That could hint at some sort of relation between the two characters.
Agreed on all points in your post. Especially the Mario="someone we know already" part since I would find it weird to have a whole knew character with no relation, or barely any, with the story to appear 9 episodes in.

To support the idea Mario = Ringo : Ringo keeps mentioning her dead sister, but we have yet to see any flashback of the two together (right?).
Could it be that Ringo never met Momoka? That she entered the family after she was dead? Not feeling part of the family because she had been adopted, she made up her mind to become Momoka to finally build a family for her.
She must already have suffered so kind of trauma when she was very young, her natural parents probably dead (could it be that they disappeared like the Takakuras?) and then taken away from her sister, Masako...
As time passed, she may have forget about all this though.

Alright, there are very few elements to support this but hell, why not?!
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Old 2011-09-13, 10:30   Link #1376
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Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
Easy, easy, it's still unclear if Survival Strategy is something like Ringo's project M. As far as we know, PoC is looking for "Penguin Drum", not a mate .
...i'm still laughing....

....

...

Ok, it stopped now.
I don't think that Ringo is adopted, because during her parents' quarrel, her father really emphasized on how Ringo's "also their daughter" (which also works if she's adopted, but the parent will less likely to say it like that)
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Old 2011-09-13, 13:31   Link #1377
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Which could be precisely why he'd save it as a major reveal much later in the story. And if he does reveal such a thing, he could always choose to be subtle about it.

Revolutionary Girl Utena was subtle in its yuri. Kaisos is right there. But it still had a definite yuri romance, just a subtle one.
While Utena had a bit of romance in it, it was of tertiary importance at most. So far in Penguindrum, romance is of even lesser importance. Ringo may have started out as a romantic subplot, but that turned out to be misdirection. I think that the same is true of Himari's status as a bride: the marriage and reproduction aspects are stronger here than any romance. What Ikuhara was and is trying to avoid was people obsessing over romance to the detriment of the other ideas he was trying to explore.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Interesting thought. Maybe Himari's memories have been corrupted somehow? And investigating these bullets may find a means of restoring her memories? Just a thought.
I think that it's more along the lines of getting Kanba to follow in his father's footsteps. Kanba has been set up fairly clearly as a surrogate for his father so far, and Kiba seems like a pretty obvious connection.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Even so, they acted like brand new friends back in Episode 3.
If anything, I'd say that this lends greater credence to the idea of a shared history. Not only did they go to the same aquarium but they both had pictures taken of the penguins, they both bought things from the gift shop and they both refer to family members as otters. To be honest, I'd almost prefer that there wasn't any connection between Himari and Ringo, but there's so much going on that it's probably not a coincidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
It all goes down to the question "is Princess of the Crystal a different person from Himari"?
That's a very good question. Given what we see in Episode 9, there's a very strong suggestion that they're the same person. Not only did we see Himari's eyes turn color while she wore the Penguin Hat, but #3's antics before that was asking us to pay attention to the eyes.
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Old 2011-09-13, 16:45   Link #1378
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Given what we see in Episode 9, there's a very strong suggestion that they're the same person. Not only did we see Himari's eyes turn color while she wore the Penguin Hat, but #3's antics before that was asking us to pay attention to the eyes.
I agree with this. The eyes are specially telling, and it's so Ikuhara to use the little critter to tell us what he wanted us to pay attention to. All in all, the suggestion that they're one and the same is indeed very strong.
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Old 2011-09-13, 19:03   Link #1379
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
And Himari was Luigi.

Ringo was Princess Peach (hence why half-Mario Sho still has a thing for her).
Ringo can't be Princess Peach - her sister already is .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Nobody knows who Mario really is. It could be Yamashita for all we know (or even Ringo), so that's not the point. I just said Himari's "fated one" is Mario, as this is the only character the credits could refer to. You agree with that, it seems, so there's no reason to argue about it IMO.
I don't think that Mario is someone that we already know, but if he is, then Masako is the most likely choice. We've already had one girl trying to reincarnate as her sister, so what would be so unusual about a brother instead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Agree here. Using the credit is quite similar to using future episode name for speculation. They are there just due to commercialized reason rather purposely included. So please use spoiler for seiyuu/credits speculation or you will risk ruining the fun for others
If they were trying to hide Mario's name, they would have labelled him as "Boy with apple" or something like that. But given Ikuhara's penchant for misdirection, I wouldn't worry too much about it either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
PS: btw,i rewatched the broiler room screen, and the animation of those propeller are bloody damn detail. Hope they still can keep up with their budget
This episode probably didn't cost too much. There were cost-saving visuals everywhere and most of the work was done by Takeuchi anyways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
Edit : To be noted also how once the Princess of the Crystal wakes up : right when she stop Sanetoshi, this is not Himari speaking it seems but the Princess, the Library vanished and Himari/Princess fall back to Himari's body. Why did the Library vanishes at that point? Because the Princess isn't allowed to be in this place (again, Pingroup.inc territory ie realm of the living).
This image captures two visual elements Ikuhara loves: lips and hands. I love little images like these which both look great and pack tons of meaning.

I think that maybe about 60% of the meaning in Penguindrum is derived from the dialogue and action. The rest of it comes from other elements - the audio and especially the visuals. The latter doesn't seem to get that much attention, and that

Ideally, someone should go over the whole show from the first episode, and pick out the individual shots and discuss the use of shot angles, framing, color palette, and so on. For example, look at Himari when she saw Double-H on TV. The way the scene is shot tells us everything we need to know about how she feels without needing a single line of dialogue.
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Old 2011-09-13, 19:29   Link #1380
Kazu-kun
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I don't think that Mario is someone that we already know, but if he is, then Masako is the most likely choice. We've already had one girl trying to reincarnate as her sister, so what would be so unusual about a brother instead?
To tell you the truth, I think Mario is Masako's brother. I just didn't want to say it because:

1) it's just my speculation.

2) a lot of people are surprisingly uncomfortable with the idea of Mario being a new character instead of one of the already established ones.

So for now it's enough is we come to terms with the fact the Himari's fated one is credited as Mario. We can let the issue of his real identity for after he's properly introduced in the show I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
For example, look at Himari when she saw Double-H on TV. The way the scene is shot tells us everything we need to know about how she feels without needing a single line of dialogue.
The contrast between what she's telling Sanetoshi and her expressions and the way the shots are framed is very striking. The suggestion that she's not being honest with Sanetoshi, and more importantly with herself, is very strong during that scene.
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