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Old 2011-09-13, 16:21   Link #2441
Arkeus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
"Go Straight To Starlight Breaker"

Do not pass Linker Core, do not collect $200 dollars.


Funny thing -- according to the Nanoha Wiki, Restrict Lock runs on the same "gathering" principle that SLB does.

Yuuno was trying to teach her a simple bind, and she accidentally learned one of the strongest ones by discovering her talent for Collection.

It was her first step towards Starlight Breaker.
Restrict Lock isn't Nanoha's normal bind at all.

She uses 4 different Binding spells in Strikers, if not more.
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Old 2011-09-13, 16:26   Link #2442
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Restrict Lock isn't Nanoha's normal bind at all.

She uses 4 different Binding spells in Strikers, if not more.
But in the first and second season, she uses Restrict Lock.
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Old 2011-09-13, 17:39   Link #2443
Arkeus
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But in the first and second season, she uses Restrict Lock.
Definitely not in the first season- her bind spell was nameless then.

In A's, i don't remember her ever using binds either.
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Old 2011-09-13, 17:59   Link #2444
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Definitely not in the first season- her bind spell was nameless then.
Apparently the side materials gave it a name.

It's also the name of her Bind in the fighting games.
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Old 2011-09-13, 18:00   Link #2445
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Definitely not in the first season- her bind spell was nameless then.
But looks and function just like Restrict Lock. Probably Tsuzuki didn't even thinked about a specific name for the spell at the time xDU. Remember, the Franchise was in diappers in Season 1.
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Old 2011-09-13, 18:35   Link #2446
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I'd be surprised if he'd started with the idea that "Lightning Bind increases the effect of electrical attacks on the target".
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Old 2011-09-13, 18:51   Link #2447
Arkeus
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
But looks and function just like Restrict Lock. Probably Tsuzuki didn't even thinked about a specific name for the spell at the time xDU. Remember, the Franchise was in diappers in Season 1.
The look and function utterly changed if this is the same spell.

Restrict lock is the hand to hand binding she used at the end.

Before that, she had used many other Named binding spells, some of them more like her original one.
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Old 2011-09-13, 19:06   Link #2448
Akiyoshi
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The look and function utterly changed if this is the same spell.

Restrict lock is the hand to hand binding she used at the end.

Before that, she had used many other Named binding spells, some of them more like her original one.
The Wikia identifies Restrict Lock as the bind spell used by Nanoha on Season 1(used by the first time during Sound Stage 01 against a Jewel Seed monster).
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Old 2011-09-13, 19:40   Link #2449
Arkeus
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
The Wikia identifies Restrict Lock as the bind spell used by Nanoha on Season 1(used by the first time during Sound Stage 01 against a Jewel Seed monster).
English wikia, or japanese one?

Because it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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Old 2011-09-14, 00:31   Link #2450
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
English wikia, or japanese one?
Both xD.

Spoiler for Japanese stuff:
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Old 2011-09-14, 11:31   Link #2451
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*ponders*

If restrict lock has the same collecting type properties like the Starlight Breaker, which was taught to Nanoha by Yuuno.

Won't that mean that Yuuno knows how to use Starlight Breaker? Instead of making offensive magic with his own linker core and his biological limits and incapability to create one. He can just rely on collecting mana around him to form a Starlight Breaker instead.

But he couldn't use it because collecting mana takes a lot of time before firing.
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Old 2011-09-14, 11:53   Link #2452
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*ponders*

If restrict lock has the same collecting type properties like the Starlight Breaker, which was taught to Nanoha by Yuuno.
If restrict lock is that spell Nanoha use at the beginning, it wasn't taught by yuuno.

Also, SLB changed functions a few times but kept the name, so there is no telling if it's the same spell at all.
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Old 2011-09-14, 12:54   Link #2453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
If restrict lock is that spell Nanoha use at the beginning, it wasn't taught by yuuno.

Also, SLB changed functions a few times but kept the name, so there is no telling if it's the same spell at all.
When did she start using restrict lock?
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Old 2011-09-14, 13:04   Link #2454
Akiyoshi
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In Sound Stage 01, before that she was just using the sealing functions of Raising Heart.
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Old 2011-09-14, 15:33   Link #2455
Arkeus
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In Sound Stage 01, before that she was just using the sealing functions of Raising Heart.
MGLN SS1? That would be before A's right?
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Old 2011-09-14, 15:48   Link #2456
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
If restrict lock is that spell Nanoha use at the beginning, it wasn't taught by yuuno.
Have you read the translation for the very first sound stage episode?

He's teaching her how to cast a bind spell. She's trying and failing. A Jewel Seed shows up, and suddenly Nanoha figures out how to cast Restrict Lock.

Which is the exact name that she used.

So yes, he DID teach her Bind magic (even if she ended up achieving something more advanced than he was intending), and it WAS that spell, and it WAS the first bind spell she learned.


Quote:
Also, SLB changed functions a few times
Never. It added bells and whistles, but the primary function always remained the same. So the name remained the same except for its own additions.


Ring Bind is the most basic, Loop Bind is making dozens of Ring Binds on the same target, Lightning Bind uses electric conversion magic, and Restrict Lock is a Ring Bing that uses Collection magic.
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Old 2011-09-14, 16:10   Link #2457
Akiyoshi
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MGLN SS1? That would be before A's right?
Indeed, but is also after Nanoha's first battle against a Jewel Seed monster(wikia says the SS01 takes place between Ep 2 and 3 of Season 1).
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Old 2011-09-26, 13:46   Link #2458
Sunder the Gold
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http://nanoha.wikia.com/wiki/Spell

I have some confusion regarding "field-type" spells.

Part of it definitely stems from a language issue. The word "kekkai" is usually translated as "barrier", but in Lyrical Nanoha the two terms refer to completely different kinds of magic.

In Japanese, "Kekkai" seems to refer more to the space defined or set apart by a border than the border itself. Not the wall, but the dome of space within the wall.

Most of the time in works of fiction, a kekkai is noticed when someone encounters its outer border, whether attempting to enter or exit the zone, but a kekkai may also become obvious when a strange effect occurs as though the area were operating under different rules within its boundaries.

The usual translation of "force field" is only accurate when describing a kekkai that is physically blocking someone or something from passing a boundary, either as a defensive barrier or a containment barrier. A field that only alerted the caster to intruders would instead be an "scrying field" or perhaps an "alarm ward".


That said, shouldn't "cage-type" capture spells be a specific form of "kekkai"? They create a boundary that defines a space around a target, restricting their ability to escape from that space, communicate with anyone outside of that space, teleport, and even use any magic at all (according to the entry on Crystal Cage).

So cage-type capture spells bear an awful lot of resemblence to temporal-distortion fields such as those used by the TSAB and Wolkenritter, to prevent magical targets from escaping. Also to Anti Magic Fields, such as those emitted by Gadget Drones.

Otto's IS has an application called Prisoner Box which is classified as a Kekkai, whereas Crystal Cage is classified as a cage-type. This seems inconsistent.


Barrier Jackets are called "field-type" defenses. Going by the Nanoha wiki, the phrase "field type" is only given in katakana characters, as a transliteration of the English version of the phrase. That is, the Japanese are calling it "field-type" without any original or alternative Japanese meaning.

This is different from "force field" type spells, which are called "Kekkai Mahou" in actual Japanese, complete with hiragana or kanji... and which aren't officially given any English name at all.

The English wiki says that "field-type defense" spells are not to be confused with "kekkai" spells... But does that mean that these specific category is not the same as as the broader category of "kekkai" spells or that the two categories are completely unrelated?

It seems more likely to me that "field-type defense spells" happen to be a specific kind of "kekkai", just as "cage-type capture spells" seem to be.


Either that, or "field-type defense spells" refer to a specific combination of a personally-bounded kekkai with a barrier-type defense, forming Barrier Jackets from the combination.

There are already spells which fall into more than one category, such as the Holding Shield that combines Round Shield (defense spell, shield-type) with Chain Bind (capture-spell, chain-type).

And heck, closer to the point, the Round Guarder spell, which is a kekkai that incorporates a Barrier defense. The Extend version of the spell also includes Physical Heal.


What I'm driving at is that (1) Kekkai-type spells seems to define an area in which a specific effect occurs, and (2) so many different kinds of effects can be added to Kekkai as to make the possibilities of this branch of magic very broad.


Examples:
Kekkai (collapsed flat) + ??? = Floater Field

Kekkai (personally-bounded) + Barrier = standard Barrier Jacket

Kekkai (personally-bounded) + Speed Boost (increase-type magic) = Fate's Sonic Form; also, Nanoha's Flier Fins and Fate's cape and Sonic Sails

Kekkai (area) + Barrier (outward) = Round Guarder

Kekkai (area) + Barrier (inward) = Containment Field (Crystal Cage, Prisoner Box)

Kekkai (area) + ??? = Temporal Force Field / Gefangnis der Magie)

Kekkai (area) + Physical Heal = Healing Field

Kekkai (area) + Scrying = Investigation Field

Kekkai (area) + Communication Interference = Communication Jamming Field


Theoretical:
Kekkai (area) + Photon Lancer = a field that uses the caster's energy to continuously and automatically create and fire Photon Lances from pre-determined points, aimed at a pre-determined location. Consciously controlling the field would allow the caster to change the location, allowing the shots to be aimed at a specific, moving target, or to fire from different angles.

Kekkai (area) + Divine Shooter = a field that uses the caster's energy to keep producing Divine Shots, which respond to the caster's remote control as normal.
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Old 2011-11-14, 14:15   Link #2459
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Where did Scaglietti get the Gadget Drones and Anti-Magilink Field technology?

Did he come up with those himself, or was he copying stuff he'd found on the Saint's Cradle?

Keeping in mind that Nanoha was ambushed by the Type VI Gadget Drones several years before StrikerS. If they were Belkan machines, then that means he had access to the Saint's Cradle for SEVERAL YEARS.

How he managed to hide that from the Brains is a mystery, especially considering how blatantly he was already using the Drones, up to and including attacking HIGHLY visible TSAB mages.

If AMF-technology and Gadget Drones are something that the Belkans had during the Reunification War, they would have used those weapons in the war, and the Mid-Childans would know about it. If Jail started using those weapons, the Brains would have a very good idea WHERE he might have got them.
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:52   Link #2460
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IIRC the ones that ambushed Nanoha (wait, is it Type IV or VI?) was not Scaglietti made, just like the ones in the Cradle was owned by the ship itself. Unfortunately, I don't think it was ever properly explained why there was Drones in the middle of nowhere; my guess is that they're guardians of old ruins and artifacts or something.

About Gadget Drones and AMF...well Scaglietti is a clone of an Alhazardi, but I don't know whether it was because he's a brilliant Alhazardi or because he has ancient techs buried in his mind - or maybe both.
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