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Old 2011-07-22, 10:23   Link #2401
sayde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Why didn't the series finish at episode 310 when this "story" has been stretched out for 6 years (it was 2005/06 iirc when Aizen left Soul Society) and really has nothing left to offer cept being the "Hollywood" over the top battles and power levels so high within short spaces of time for only a 'few characters'
Well I know it can be hard to believe, but as was already stated twice, Kubo actually decided before the deicide arc that he indeed had a decades worth of material to offer after the canon events of episode 310. So unless Bleach's ratings fall enough to force Kubo to stop, I guess Bleach isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Though for the record, if I had a choice between the previous arc being the last one (on the condition that the final battle played out better) or the series continuing as is, I'd probably go with the former right now. Because though I can still see some potential with the plots direction, the pace and it's current plot can make it difficult to keep seeing any sort of light at the end of that deep dark tunnel.

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(whose opinion I read and agree with for eps 306-309 with the final fight with Aizen and Ichi and Gin's issue after I ranted for about 30mins straight about it all, lol)
Did you by any chance post this rant somewhere? I'd like to read it for the lulz.
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Old 2011-07-23, 23:45   Link #2402
Sabaku Kyu
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To add a little more to those explanations, Kubo has said that he planned for the rest of Bleach to be divided into two arcs: a relatively short one followed by a much longer one. The current story in the manga is probably still in the first of those arcs
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Old 2011-08-26, 13:46   Link #2403
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Why weren't there any hell gates following the death/purification of the various Espada? They're all arrancarised from menos class, and it's suggested that the top 4 are Vasto Lorde, with all the rest but #9 being Adjuchas - a Gillian alone is hundreds of hollows, a powerful Adjuchas will consume hundreds of Gillian in their search to become a Vasto Lorde, so a Vasto Lorde must comprise of millions of souls - surely of the ten Espada (& their fracciones), there must be quite a few souls who would be considered sinners?
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Old 2011-08-26, 14:22   Link #2404
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kubo didnt think it through
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Old 2011-08-26, 14:26   Link #2405
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Yeah. It's clear Kubo likely didn't have enough time to come up with proper/official explanations to work out all the little kinks regarding hell. So we're free to come up with our own explanations I guess. I actually didn't get around to watching movie #4 yet so I apologize if potential explanations were covered in that movie.

What if the hollows who are completely devoured by gillians aren't strong enough to keep their consciousness and soul? Would it be fair to consider the soul and consciousness of those hollows to be (for all intents and purposes) destroyed?

To sum it up, perhaps among the menos class hollows, the *only* soul who can potentially be sent to hell are those who's souls were strong enough to become the dominant consciousness within the entire being. That is to say all the other devoured souls might as well be considered destroyed and are therefore unable to be sent to SS or hell.

Of course, it's only my own theory I made on the spot just now. Take it w/ a grain of salt.
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Old 2011-08-26, 15:09   Link #2406
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i had a similar dicussion on dA if ichigo's mom's soul could be in the soul society or was it broken down in reshai (or what ever its called) because grand fisher evolved and was then killed,do souls that were eaten by hollows turn into spirit particles once the hollow is killed or do they remain intact and get sent to the soul society as normal souls?
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Old 2011-08-31, 19:41   Link #2407
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Question About bleach

I stopped watching bleach after episode 310 and I never have looked back untill now . I just wanted to know am I missing anything from not watching it? I thought it got really silly up to ichigo fighting Aizen.Im only saying this because well I do miss Ichigo and Kon .
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Old 2011-09-01, 06:25   Link #2408
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^ Dont worry you're not missing that much
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Old 2011-09-04, 00:39   Link #2409
Chiisai Kuma
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Bleach: Official Animation Book VIBEs was released along with the Bleach: Official Character Book SOULs. VIBEs came out at the same time as Bleach: Official Character Book SOULs in Japan, but only SOULs has been released in english. Why is that? will it ever be released in english?
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Old 2011-09-10, 23:07   Link #2410
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What are peoples' general thoughts/opinions on the arc after Ichigo beats Aizen? Haven't followed since like 3 or 4 chapters into the new arc as it seemed a bit weird to me. Because if it's bad, I'm totally down for writing off Bleach as being over and assuming Ichigo forever lost his powerzzz and married orihime (thx)
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Old 2011-09-11, 14:49   Link #2411
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It certainly seems like the manga is a ways off from the end. Many are saying the current anime filler is better than this manga arc, but I haven't kept up with that. What I would do in your shoes is just read through it all and see if you like it.
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Old 2011-09-11, 21:14   Link #2412
rei_ayanami17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post
To sum it up, perhaps among the menos class hollows, the *only* soul who can potentially be sent to hell are those who's souls were strong enough to become the dominant consciousness within the entire being. That is to say all the other devoured souls might as well be considered destroyed and are therefore unable to be sent to SS or hell.

Of course, it's only my own theory I made on the spot just now. Take it w/ a grain of salt.
Speaking of Hell, I've got a a question:

Is there a possibility that a soul originally from Soul Society can be punished by Hell?
I'm thinking about Aizen's case.
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Old 2011-09-12, 05:27   Link #2413
sayde
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Originally Posted by rei_ayanami17 View Post
Speaking of Hell, I've got a a question:

Is there a possibility that a soul originally from Soul Society can be punished by Hell?
I'm thinking about Aizen's case.
If the movie is any indicator, then I'd assume it's *possible*. The biggest hurdle would probably be getting a hell gate to appear without the aid of a resident from hell. But if Soul Society could figure that out, they could throw Aizen in there and that would be it. The movie showed us that once your in hell, the realm and it's guardians don't seem too good at distinguishing beings who ought to be there (evil human souls) from those who don't have any business there at all (shinigami & good/innocent/living human souls). Everyone was hunted and subject to being converted and punished upon entering through those gates.
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Old 2011-09-12, 09:27   Link #2414
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Kind of unrelated, but I doubt SS would toss Aizen into Hell even if they could open the Hell Gate. At least in their prison he can be kept under their watch and guard. If he's in Hell, he's out of their control, just like he was in HM. There's no telling who he might be able to corrupt, manipulate or convince to aid his escape. Too many variables involved with sending him there. I think they'd much prefer to keep him under their own lock and key.
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Old 2011-09-14, 01:12   Link #2415
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^ wait, since you brought up about Hueco mundo, there's something I don't understand.

If Soul Society can be compared to Heaven or is it really what people call Heaven (Rukia said it in the 1st episode), Then Hell can be say to be what people call Hell.
Then, what is Hueco Mundo? yeah, it is a world of Hollows but can we consider it Hell too?

I just remember Dante Allighieri's work entitled, Inferno, Purgatorio and Paradiso
If I'm going to compare it to Kubo's work, I would consider it like this:

Hell -- Inferno (Hell)
Soul Socety & Hueco Mundo -- Purgatorio (Purgatory)
Royal Palace -- Paradiso (Heaven)


note that I both compare Soul Society and Hueco Mundo to Purgatorio because in Purgatorio -- soul is can either be saved or not/ a place where soul can be purified and cleanse. And I remember a character say this (I guess Ishida) "as long as there is soul, there is hollow" and so, i can say that they are both connected to one another.

now, if a soul originally from ss commit a grave crime and the Hell moved itself to sentence that soul, then I guess there is no way he will gain control in Hell because Hell is a place of misery and torture. Aizen can't do whatever he did to Hueco Mundo (having a tea in Hell -- no way!) Aizen will be there to burn in fire for his own death.

I really like the that idea of Aizen being sentence by Hell especially now that he is immortal. I think it would be a great ending for him if Kubo can think of this. But, unfortunately, this is just a wishful thinking.

btw, I haven't watch the Hell movie too, so don't take my post seriously. I guess, Hell structure in the 4th movie and Kubo's work were completely different from Dante Allighieri.
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Old 2011-09-14, 14:55   Link #2416
sayde
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Originally Posted by rei_ayanami17 View Post
note that I both compare Soul Society and Hueco Mundo to Purgatorio because in Purgatorio -- soul is can either be saved or not/ a place where soul can be purified and cleanse.
The only souls who can be purified and cleansed are those who've turned into hollows. In fact, Soul Society is where purified souls are supposed to reside. So in actuality SS is pretty much the closest thing to heaven in the Bleach universe--even though there's plenty of souls residing there that have to live & deal with extreme poverty and crime on a daily basis. But for a soul, it's typically the end of the road as there's no place better to go. I mean they're definitely not getting into the king's realm, right? lol

Hueco Mundo seems pretty awful for the vast majority of souls no matter how you look at it. But since it's not technically "hell", and since innocent, good people are sent their all the time, we can't call it as such unfortunately. Either way, most souls who end up there are destined to live a pretty harsh existence where a constant state of hunger perpetuates a cycle where only the strong and/or lucky can survive and live relatively peacefully. Those who don't measure up eventually have their souls devoured and wiped from existence by another hollow regardless of whether the soul deserved it or not. It's pretty sad. So its hard for me to consider hollows and hueco mundo to be a form of purgatory or limbo. Especially since only the lucky few seem to ever get purified and saved by a shingami. And in order for that to happen, a hollow typically has to find there way into the human realm or SS for their next meal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rei_ayanami17 View Post
now, if a soul originally from ss commit a grave crime and the Hell moved itself to sentence that soul, then I guess there is no way he will gain control in Hell because Hell is a place of misery and torture.
If a soul originally from Soul Society commits a crime, that falls within the shinigami's and central 46's jurisdiction. They're responsible for passing and carrying out punishment. And should a shinigami have to execute a soul in Soul Society, the soul will get destroyed. Hell won't come to claim it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rei_ayanami17 View Post
I really like the that idea of Aizen being sentence by Hell especially now that he is immortal. I think it would be a great ending for him if Kubo can think of this.
I wouldn't expect you to know this since you admitted to not seeing the movie yet, but the only thing that keeps a resident of hell bound to the realm are spiritual chains. (I forget their proper name if they even had one.) Since these chains can be broken if a soul were to become strong enough (on par with Ichigo's perfect hollowfication form), sending Aizen down their with the hougyoku could result in something bad I suppose. Assuming the hougyoku gave him back vast amounts of power, not only would he be able to break free with ease, but he'd be able to free and form an entire legion composed of hell's residents. Or he might willingly chose to remain in captivity since being a "sinner" would technically grant him another form of immortality since its residents can get resurrected almost indefinitely if killed. With the aid of the hougyoku, and his own extreme cunning & intellect, he might even find a way to convince hell into granting him tons of extra power by merging with the Kushannard's. And these are only some of the many possibilities. Langus really wasn't kidding when he stated that there could be too many variables to consider. Having said that, I find it a lot fun to think about.
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Old 2011-09-15, 23:05   Link #2417
rei_ayanami17
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
The only souls who can be purified and cleansed are those who've turned into hollows. In fact, Soul Society is where purified souls are supposed to reside. So in actuality SS is pretty much the closest thing to heaven in the Bleach universe--even though there's plenty of souls residing there that have to live & deal with extreme poverty and crime on a daily basis. But for a soul, it's typically the end of the road as there's no place better to go. I mean they're definitely not getting into the king's realm, right? lol

Hueco Mundo seems pretty awful for the vast majority of souls no matter how you look at it. But since it's not technically "hell", and since innocent, good people are sent their all the time, we can't call it as such unfortunately. Either way, most souls who end up there are destined to live a pretty harsh existence where a constant state of hunger perpetuates a cycle where only the strong and/or lucky can survive and live relatively peacefully. Those who don't measure up eventually have their souls devoured and wiped from existence by another hollow regardless of whether the soul deserved it or not. It's pretty sad. So its hard for me to consider hollows and hueco mundo to be a form of purgatory or limbo. Especially since only the lucky few seem to ever get purified and saved by a shingami. And in order for that to happen, a hollow typically has to find there way into the human realm or SS for their next meal.
if were talking about religion here, i would really consider Royal Palace as the Heaven. Joining the Soul king to his realm and having an eternal life with him are what religion teaching states BUT BECAUSE WERE NOT , i believe your right and i have nothing against your explanation.


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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
If a soul originally from Soul Society commits a crime, that falls within the shinigami's and central 46's jurisdiction. They're responsible for passing and carrying out punishment. And should a shinigami have to execute a soul in Soul Society, the soul will get destroyed. Hell won't come to claim it.
if you remember, we already talk about this one. Soul society rules and laws aren't that perfect and aren't that fitting in terms of Aizen's case. That;s why in Deicide arc they'll just come up with the punishment of imprisoning him for thousand years which seems to be nonsense and pointless because Aizen becomes immortal with his fused with the Hougyouku. If Aizen is a transcendental being now, then I think it would be more appropriate and right for someone transcendental too to pass the judgement against him And one more thing that I'm not sure right now is that "can we really consider what Aizen's have done as just a grave crime or crime?" -- killing the whole Central 46, manipulating the Gotei 13, escape from ss, reign in Hueco Mundo and planning to murder the Soul king -- IS THAT JUST A CRIME? C'mon, I think it's not! .............those are MORTAL SINS!............my bad in advance if I'm going to base my opinion with just what resources i have right now.....If i remember, Rukia said something like this in ep. 5 -- "A soul slayer can only washed away sins after death. For Hollows who commit mortal sins, the Gate of Hell will open.....".........try to replace the word Hollows with the word "soul" and i guess you'll get my point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I wouldn't expect you to know this since you admitted to not seeing the movie yet, but the only thing that keeps a resident of hell bound to the realm are spiritual chains. (I forget their proper name if they even had one.) Since these chains can be broken if a soul were to become strong enough (on par with Ichigo's perfect hollowfication form), sending Aizen down their with the hougyoku could result in something bad I suppose. Assuming the hougyoku gave him back vast amounts of power, not only would he be able to break free with ease, but he'd be able to free and form an entire legion composed of hell's residents. Or he might willingly chose to remain in captivity since being a "sinner" would technically grant him another form of immortality since its residents can get resurrected almost indefinitely if killed. With the aid of the hougyoku, and his own extreme cunning & intellect, he might even find a way to convince hell into granting him tons of extra power by merging with the Kushannard's. And these are only some of the many possibilities. Langus really wasn't kidding when he stated that there could be too many variables to consider. Having said that, I find it a lot fun to think about.
I always get the impression that movies aren't canon material, so whatever we see from the movie will never affect the original story, but it seems this Hell movie gives info's to some of Kubo's lack of explanation........ahh, I wish i could watch the movie right now but.......... (Sakura-chan, could you please lend me your Clow card of Time.) ........i really want to see the movie...
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Old 2011-09-16, 00:55   Link #2418
sayde
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Originally Posted by rei_ayanami17 View Post
if you remember, we already talk about this one. Soul society rules and laws aren't that perfect and aren't that fitting in terms of Aizen's case. That;s why in Deicide arc they'll just come up with the punishment of imprisoning him for thousand years which seems to be nonsense and pointless because Aizen becomes immortal with his fused with the Hougyouku. If Aizen is a transcendental being now, then I think it would be more appropriate and right for someone transcendental too to pass the judgement against him And one more thing that I'm not sure right now is that "can we really consider what Aizen's have done as just a grave crime or crime?" -- killing the whole Central 46, manipulating the Gotei 13, escape from ss, reign in Hueco Mundo and planning to murder the Soul king -- IS THAT JUST A CRIME? C'mon, I think it's not! .............those are MORTAL SINS!............my bad in advance if I'm going to base my opinion with just what resources i have right now.....If i remember, Rukia said something like this in ep. 5 -- "A soul slayer can only washed away sins after death. For Hollows who commit mortal sins, the Gate of Hell will open.....".........try to replace the word Hollows with the word "soul" and i guess you'll get my point.
Here's my point. It really doesn't matter what sins Aizen committed or how evil he was. The rules of the universe Kubo established don't fully support the idea of hell coming to claim Aizen since hell only comes to claim pure souls who were not deemed worthy enough to enter SS. That's to say a hell gate can't/won't appear to take a soul already in Soul Society as far as we know. So Aizen is technically out of hell's jurisdiction. Who knows? Maybe it's possible for hell to come claim him if he left the realm of Soul Society as he is now and entered the realm of the living or Hueco Mundo. But I can't say for sure.

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Originally Posted by rei_ayanami17 View Post
I always get the impression that movies aren't canon material, so whatever we see from the movie will never affect the original story, but it seems this Hell movie gives info's to some of Kubo's lack of explanation........
In this case, the movie definitely isn't canon since Kubo admits to feeling disappointed that much of his ideas where not incorporated into the film. He didn't even want credit for being apart of it. With that said, I question whether this movie fills in gaps on Kubo's behalf. What's worse is that I think the movie might have ruined any chance Kubo had towards integrating the aspect of hell into the main canon. IMO, he might not want to play around with hell too much now that the movie has already established plenty of details about it into the franchise that would directly go against his own ideas at this point.

Last edited by sayde; 2011-09-16 at 05:46.
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Old 2011-09-17, 01:14   Link #2419
rei_ayanami17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post
Here's my point. It really doesn't matter what sins Aizen committed or how evil he was. The rules of the universe Kubo established don't fully support the idea of hell coming to claim Aizen since hell only comes to claim pure souls who were not deemed worthy enough to enter SS. That's to say a hell gate can't/won't appear to take a soul already in Soul Society as far as we know. So Aizen is technically out of hell's jurisdiction. Who knows? Maybe it's possible for hell to come claim him if he left the realm of Soul Society as he is now and entered the realm of the living or Hueco Mundo. But I can't say for sure.
I understand your point. As i said, don't take me seriously, those i've stated are just my imaginative thoughts. I just want to affirm to you that don't take out the possibility that Hell can claim Aizen because he's technically a sinner in my point of view..........whew!, nice discussion, after all

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In this case, the movie definitely isn't canon since Kubo admits to feeling disappointed that much of his ideas where not incorporated into the film. He didn't even want credit for being apart of it. With that said, I question whether this movie fills in gaps on Kubo's behalf. What's worse is that I think the movie might have ruined any chance Kubo had towards integrating the aspect of hell into the main canon. IMO, he might not want to play around with hell too much now that the movie has already established plenty of details about it into the franchise that would directly go against his own ideas at this point.
That's.........too bad.
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Old 2011-09-17, 01:58   Link #2420
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Yeah...holy crap that sounds like a creator's nightmare.
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