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Old 2011-09-17, 18:38   Link #1641
Tenchi Ryu
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Spoiler for season finale:
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Old 2011-09-17, 19:31   Link #1642
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Spoiler for Episode 25 thoughts:
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Old 2011-09-17, 19:42   Link #1643
Byakou
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Well this was a nice series, but yuri didn't get enough airtime. I hope there's a sequel soon.
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Old 2011-09-17, 19:57   Link #1644
Sackett
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In this episode we learned the most important lesson:

Always check for a pulse!

Don't go declaring someone dead until you check the vital signs.

That's the public service announcement from Tiger & Bunny this episode.
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Old 2011-09-17, 20:59   Link #1645
Westlo
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lol Blue Rose, gl next season though I doubt Sunrise/Bandai will bite the hand that feeds them, in this case fujoshis.

Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Byakou View Post
Well this was a nice series, but yuri didn't get enough airtime. I hope there's a sequel soon.
Don't worry they'll be a sequel, the series obviously went in that direction and it is consistently selling near 30,000 copies per volume which puts makes it elite. It's currently the 18th best selling tv series from 2000 onwards, still has a chance of outselling Lucky Star which is 17th... 29,146 avg for LS compared to 28,604 for T&B after 4 volumes... would have for sure if Bandai didn't completely mess up the release of the first volume.
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:06   Link #1646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
lol Blue Rose, gl next season though I doubt Sunrise/Bandai will bite the hand that feeds them, in this case fujoshis.
How much of Tiger and Bunny's popularity is due to fujoshis, and how much is due to older otakus who relate to Kotetsu? My suspicion is that the latter group accounts for the larger portion of the show's popularity, but I don't know. What's your thoughts here?
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:12   Link #1647
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
How much of Tiger and Bunny's popularity is due to fujoshis, and how much is due to older otakus who relate to Kotetsu?
A brief look through Pixiv should answer your question. Sweet Haruhi, it's hard not to run into pics pushing TxB as a ship -- a fact that was spoofed in the most recent chapter of Genshiken Niidaime. Good luck Karina is right.
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:20   Link #1648
ars89
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Well Tiger was indeed alive, funny how they forgot to check his pulse. Like how he saved Kaede at the end and knocked down Maverick. The Dr died as well. Nice job by Saito activating the safety mode. Thank you Lunatic for killing off Maverick. Nice job by Agnes to get it onto Hero TV.

Paolin in the dress was so cute. Lol the book Karina was reading. Tiger became the minute man. Lol how he's in the second league. Lol Bunny returning to catch Kotetsu like that. So the only thing left is Ouroboros is still out there. Wonder what Ben is going to do at the company now, wonder if Saito meant anything by him having a visitor. Hopefully if their is a second season Lunatic get's more screen time.
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:24   Link #1649
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
A brief look through Pixiv should answer your question.
Frankly, I'm skeptical of putting much commercial import in that. How many of these artists are also buying the Tiger and Bunny DVDs/Blu-Rays?

Anyway...

Spoiler for Karina discussions delving into Episode 25 spoilers:
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:28   Link #1650
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
How much of Tiger and Bunny's popularity is due to fujoshis, and how much is due to older otakus who relate to Kotetsu? My suspicion is that the latter group accounts for the larger portion of the show's popularity, but I don't know. What's your thoughts here?
The success of Tiger and Bunny in Japan is nearly solely due to Fujoshi's, they have a "hive mind" attribute and they don't want to be left out of the current "in thing". Seeing Tiger & Blue Rose paired up in an eventual second season would surprise me almost as much as if the K-ON! girls got themselves boyfriends. Tiger & Bunny also shows that fujoshi's will buy Blurays, before T&B a lot of Fujoshi aimed shows only came out on DVD, they never had the option to go with BD.. but T&B has proved it's a viable option.

And yeah check Pixiv for proof... it's generally pretty indicative of how a fanbase feels.. take Nisio's Medaka Box manga for one, one character who was introduced as the antagonist of the second arc has like more than a quarter of the fan art, when the 2nd character poll for was published in WSJ 2 weeks ago he won in dominate fashion, 3000+ votes to 900 for second place. He went from 200 votes in the first character poll to over 3000 and he's the most loved character on Pixiv.
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:31   Link #1651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post

And yeah check Pixiv for proof...
But that's not proof of anything. What hard data do you have proving that the customer-base of the Tiger and Bunny Blu-Rays is primarily fujoshis?

Or is this just an educated guess on your part? If it's an educated guess, I respect that, but it's not proof. It's nothing definitive.


Edit: Character popularity polls aren't proof of much either. K-On is currently getting killed in SaiMoe while it simultaneously is going increasingly mainstream (i.e. airing on the Japanese Disney Channel, and getting a movie soon).
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:38   Link #1652
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Frankly, I'm skeptical of putting much commercial import in that. How many of these artists are also buying the Tiger and Bunny DVDs/Blu-Rays?
Not trying to be a Devil's advocate, but I am quite sure that fujoshis do not only compose of these artists, in particular see the horde in Twitter. As much I believe that general older fans are buying them too, I have little doubt that half of the sales consist of the fujoshi part of the fandom (just to set a benchmark, BL anime like Junjou Romantica get 10k sales in DVD for season 1... I think). It's not really about how the fans are being divided, but who will shell out more money to buy the BD/merchandises...

Just so you know, it really didn't hit many people about T&B even existing (in regards to JP fandom) until Pixiv started the fare. Out of comedic purpose or enthralled by it. I have no doubts that Sunrise themselves have pretty much sniffed it with the general merchandising directions focusing a little more on erm, certain aspects of combination.
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:42   Link #1653
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Edit: Character popularity polls aren't proof of much either. K-On is currently getting killed in SaiMoe while it simultaneously is going increasingly mainstream (i.e. airing on the Japanese Disney Channel, and getting a movie soon).
SaiMoe is a horrible thing to gauge popularity with in the first place, heavyweights get sniped as soon as they're up against an opponent who can put up a decent fight. Look @ what happened to Homura...When a heavyweight wins it's because they had an easy run to the finals for the most part.

As for further proof, I really can't be stuffed finding official confirmation of what everyone knows anyway. I spent 30 seconds looking and found this.

http://seventhstyle.com/2011/06/10/t...s-this-season/

That poll was a dengeki character poll IIRC. As for proof I guess you can look @ the amount of doujin and the merchandise angle for the show. I can't be stuffed so let me turn the tables around...

Quote:
How much of Tiger and Bunny's popularity is due to fujoshis, and how much is due to older otakus who relate to Kotetsu? My suspicion is that the latter group accounts for the larger portion of the show's popularity, but I don't know. What's your thoughts here?
What makes you think the latter is a larger reason for the show's popularity?

EDIT - IIRC the restreams.. on ustreamo.. which happened after the episode aired on tv was an increasingly popular place for fujoshi's to watch the show together. The numbers it was getting was growing by the weeks. The preorders on amazon really jumped up after Episode 5's... "birthday gift". Also the extra's are the sort of information fujoshi's really love and the crazy prices for the under supplied Vol 1 was more than likely due to the fujoshi frenzy.

Last edited by Westlo; 2011-09-17 at 21:53.
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:48   Link #1654
Myssa Rei
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Triple R: Leaving the issue of fujoshis aside (and yes, the amount of Pixiv tags can be used to track fandom trends, like in K-On, where the vast majority of the pics reflect how the creepy aspect of fandom would like that the girls NEVER leave high school and ignore the college continuation ever happened),wasn't mentioned in a recent interview that Karina will NEVER get any from Koutetsu?
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:55   Link #1655
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Triple R: Leaving the issue of fujoshis aside wasn't mentioned in a recent interview that Karina will NEVER get any from Koutetsu?
Wouldn't that have applied to Karina as she is now though? S2 Karina is older so ignoring outside factors she actually has a chance.
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Old 2011-09-17, 21:57   Link #1656
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
SaiMoe is a horrible thing to gauge popularity with in the first place,
Then why are you even citing popularity contests at all? That is part of what SaiMoe is after all - a popularity contest. One of the more prominent ones at that.


Quote:
What makes you think the latter is a larger reason for the show's popularity?
You hinted at it yourself - Fujoshis typically don't buy anime DVDs/Blu-Rays in large numbers, to the best of our knowledge. Yaoi anime typically doesn't do that well on DVD or Blu-Ray, and this we know for a fact.

It's long been the case that yaoi dominates much of manga, while anime is dominated by a male audience that isn't very much into yaoi.

If you're arguing that Tiger and Bunny is just about an unprecedented exception to the rule there, then yes, it will take a lot to convince me of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Triple R: Leaving the issue of fujoshis aside (and yes, the amount of Pixiv tags can be used to track fandom trends, like in K-On, where the vast majority of the pics reflect how the creepy aspect of fandom would like that the girls NEVER leave high school and ignore the college continuation ever happened)
And lo and behold, Kakifly put the girls in College anyway. I doubt we would be seeing that if it was felt that the move would be commercial suicide.

Also, that's only the "creepy aspect of the fandom". It's clearly not all fans, or even necessarily the majority of them.
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Old 2011-09-17, 22:02   Link #1657
~BC~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It would really suck for Kotetsu/Karina to be blocked purely to please fujoshis.
[/SPOILER]
If it doesn't happen I doubt it'll have anything to do with fujoshis (jokes about influencing the writers seems popular in the fandom though). Going by polls or internet popularity is stretching it. Even if we assume that half the sales were due to that fanbase (which sounds like a gross exaggeration) why would Sunrise discount the other half. Besides it's not like fujoshi can't enjoy a little het romance. Karina->Kotetsu is still alive after all this time and I doubt they'd keep bringing it up if they weren't going to delve into it further. It could just be a prelude to her real romance...with Barnaby.
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Old 2011-09-17, 22:11   Link #1658
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Then why are you even citing popularity contests at all? That is part of what SaiMoe is after all - a popularity contest. One of the more prominent ones at that.
You brought up popularity contests first by mentioning SaiMoe, I just explained to you why SaiMoe is a horrible gauge for popularity. I did not say that popularity contests/lists is not a good indicator, I said that SaiMoe is flawed due to external reasons. Do I really need to list all the top contenders who have been sniped off by fans of other characters?

Do I really need to explain how SaiMoe is different from a typical character poll? I mean really? You're an intelligent guy, figure it out.

Quote:
You hinted at it yourself - Fujoshis typically don't buy anime DVDs/Blu-Rays in large numbers, to the best of our knowledge. Yaoi anime typically doesn't do that well on DVD or Blu-Ray, and this we know for a fact.
Tiger & Bunny is proof that Fujoshi's buy Blurays, you want to know why they never did before? Because they were never given the option in the first place. The way the market is going is that most shows will now by DVD/BD and heavily aimed otaku shows will be strictly Bluray, see the upcoming Horizon as an example.

Quote:
It's long been the case that yaoi dominates much of manga, while anime is dominated by a male audience that isn't very much into yaoi.
Than when it comes to Macross Frontier (a show that sells on avg 15,000 more copies per volume than T&B) why is their more Sheryl and/or Ranka doujins with Alto than Alto and Michael for example?

Quote:
If you're arguing that Tiger and Bunny is just about an unprecedented exception to the rule there, then yes, it will take a lot to convince me of that.
How about you provide proof that Tiger & Bunny Japanese fandom isn't powered by fujoshis. You like to ask for proof yourself but you don't seem quick to give out anything to back your statements.
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Old 2011-09-17, 22:24   Link #1659
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I doubt we would be seeing that if it was felt that the move would be commercial suicide.
Neither here nor there, but take note that the movie will be taking place during the time before and sometime after they graduate, but NOT during their actual college years. There's a difference, and it still draws in the moe crowd who like their high school girls to stay in high school.

I think looking for concrete sales figures per fandom segment is going to be hard to pinpoint because, frankly, DVD/Blu-Ray purchases aren't seperated by whether or not a 30-year-old salaryman buys a volume or your teenaged-to-colleged aged fangirl. Trends seem to lean towards the former as, but it would be seriously remiss to ignore the latter, and Sunrise certainly won't. *remembers homoerotic Gundam W merchandise, ditto with Gundam 00 S1*

And no question: Tiger and Bunny is VERY popular with fujoshi. To a disturbing degree.
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Old 2011-09-17, 22:29   Link #1660
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
You brought up popularity contests first...
No, I didn't.

Like ~Bc~ said, going by polls or internet popularity is really stretching it. I've seen shows that were heavily hyped on the internet, and bombed hard on DVD and/or Blu-Ray (example: Umineko).


Quote:
Tiger & Bunny is proof that Fujoshi's buy Blurays,
No, it's not. And there's several reasons why:

1. Sunrise has produced many commercial hit anime shows. Numerous Gundams, Cowboy Bebop, Mai HiME, and Code Geass. Sunrise itself does have a fanbase. It doesn't buy all their shows, but it tends to gravitate towards ones with good marketing and high production values. Who's to say that's not what is going on here with Tiger and Bunny?

2. With Point 1 in mind, you don't think that the mecha nature of Tiger and Bunny's outfits could be appealing to hardcore mecha fans, the ones that recognize Sunrise as the biggest provider of mecha anime of all-time?

3. Given the first two points, there is a perfectly viable explanation for Tiger and Bunny's good sales that has nothing to do with fujoshis.

4. Given Point 3, Tiger and Bunny's commercial success can not alone be used as proof of fujoshis being willing to buy anime DVDs/Blu-Rays in large numbers. Not unless you have hard data backing up such a claim.

5. Given Point 4, it is yet unprecedented for fujoshis to buy anime on DVDs or Blu-Rays in large numbers, which brings us right back to my previous point to you.


Quote:
you want to know why they never did before? Because they were never given the option in the first place.
There have been yaoi anime put out on DVD and/or Blu-Ray.


Quote:
How about you provide proof that Tiger & Bunny Japanese fandom isn't powered by fujoshis.
I never said that it definitely wasn't. I've expressed skepticism over the idea, that's all.

I asked you the question that I did because I'm not certain of this, and would like to know what evidence there is for the Tiger and Bunny Japanese fandom being powered by fujoshis.

Frankly, the evidence you've presented so far is circumstantial at best.

It can support a reasonable educated guess, perhaps, but it certainly doesn't warrant your level of certitude on the question I asked you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post

Neither here nor there, but take note that the movie will be taking place during the time before and sometime after they graduate, but NOT during their actual college years. There's a difference, and it still draws in the moe crowd who like their high school girls to stay in high school.
This could simply be a matter of the movie-makers wanting the movie to be anime original, a fresh story that may generate more interest precisely because its fresh.


Quote:
And no question: Tiger and Bunny is VERY popular with fujoshi. To a disturbing degree.
Internet popularity doesn't say a whole lot, imo. A show's consumer-base can be considerably different from its customer-base (due to piracy, of course).


Here's something that might change my mind in our discussion: An actual article (from ANN, in a newspaper, wherever) discussing how popular Tiger and Bunny is with teenage girls and/or young women. Posters providing anecdotal evidence of seeing lots of girls/young women buying lots of Tiger and Bunny merchandise.

That's what I'm looking for, if you want to change my mind. Something from the real world, not something just on the internet.

What convinced me that K-On! had become popular with a younger female audience was evidence like this - real world evidence.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-09-17 at 23:30.
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