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Old 2011-09-27, 09:29   Link #1201
Keroko
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... Why are you constantly switching the subject to Force? We are talking about Vivid and the areas it's lacking and could use improvement.
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Old 2011-09-27, 09:37   Link #1202
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Seriously, when you're making ME look moderate...
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Old 2011-09-27, 09:46   Link #1203
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I just don't see why the constant jabs at Force are needed. All the critics have been saying is "well, I like Vivid, but I think it could be better if-" not "Vivid sucks, Force is so much better." Nobody's claimed that. At least, not as far as I've read.
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Old 2011-09-27, 10:12   Link #1204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
Maybe I need to clarify this a bit, I'm not saying that Vivid's plot is good (it's not) but it's definitely not worse that Force's plot.

Both series fail horribly went it comes to plot, but at least Vivid managed to make me care about the new cast. It's obvious Vivid is supposed to be a series focused on characters, and it's doing a fine job with it's characters.

Force on the other hand is supposed to be a plot focused series. The problem is this plot is incredibly cliche and uninteresting. It's just another boy meets girl story with cliche as hell villains and popular characters forced into the mix to improve sales.

The big battle with Huckebeins played exactly as I expected, and was executed much worse that I hoped. Touma and Lily are horribly boring characters. Especially Touma who has DARK and SAD past, is suddenly best friends with all popular characters and became uber powerful for no reason other than because he's the MC. Huckebeins are boring and overpowered too.

What is Vivid supposed to be? A magical SoL manga with some fighting and fanservice. And it's exactly that.

What is Force supposed to be? A serious and plot heavy story with a dark tone. And it fails horribly at being what it's supposed to be.
Either Vivid and Force are equally interesting. Just my criticism is that the quality itself. It doesn't matter if it included fanservice elements in it, just the proportion must be fitted.

Any demographic, not the problem. No matter it's shounen, shoujo, or seinen. However, a nice picture and spoil the eye doesn't mean guarantee has an interesting story anyway. That's just not enough. The more necessary is the storyline, character development, plot, and penetration in the behavior of fans know that change often. Not to mention, since Strikers, there are many growing number of characters and used as a decoration that can be simply discarded and replaced. Without explore deeper into the background and characteristics of each character.
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Old 2011-09-27, 10:39   Link #1205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
The problem is this plot is incredibly cliche and uninteresting. It's just another boy meets girl story with cliche as hell villains and popular characters forced into the mix to improve sales.
Funny, you could say the same of Vivid, only change it to "girl meets girl" and change "villains" to "rivals".

Need I remind you that tropes aren't bad?

For the record I do think Force is a lot better than Vivid.
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Old 2011-09-27, 10:50   Link #1206
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Vivid and Force both are equally good. Only the quality and content of the story on the wane, but still worth to read it.
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Old 2011-09-27, 10:53   Link #1207
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Certainly if you're a Nanoha fan there's no reason not to read either manga.
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Old 2011-09-27, 11:21   Link #1208
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..I have trouble believing that total sales number based on the known sales counts, but if so, damn. That's pretty good. Fantastic even, for this series.
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Old 2011-09-27, 11:25   Link #1209
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What's it saying the sales number is?
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Old 2011-09-27, 11:30   Link #1210
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Near 1mil total. Like, I could see that for all the volumes of Force + Vivid, but the article is about Vivid, implying Vivid's sold near 1mil total.

It just doesn't add up, the volumes are averaging like 80k-100k first month... and I assume this total doesn't include Vol 4.

Note that I asked a couple different people what this said but they could all be mistaken. That number being 1 million is true for sure though.
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Old 2011-09-27, 12:52   Link #1211
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Near 1mil total. Like, I could see that for all the volumes of Force + Vivid, but the article is about Vivid, implying Vivid's sold near 1mil total.

It just doesn't add up, the volumes are averaging like 80k-100k first month... and I assume this total doesn't include Vol 4.

Note that I asked a couple different people what this said but they could all be mistaken. That number being 1 million is true for sure though.
Sales numbers that are posted on the net are from Oricon, and Oricon doesn't include all retailers. Actual sales are usually higher. I remember a japanese blog saying actual sales for anime are around 20% higher and actual sales for manga are 50% higher.

But still, 1 million...
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Old 2011-09-27, 13:16   Link #1212
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Numbers also tend to be rounded up rather liberally to sound fanciful. Claiming a million sales sounds good on paper, while the actual number might be more around 900.000.

Which still is no number to sniff at, mind you. Especially for a single country those are pretty damn good numbers.
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Old 2011-09-27, 16:44   Link #1213
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Hmm... 29 looks interesting. Darn it, wish it was translated faster.

And personally enjoying Vivid more, of the two. I do feel that I've managed to grow rather attached to all the characters so far. I'm also curious about the new details they'll reveal about the world. Force, so far, doesn't look to be introducing too much, or, rather, looks like it'll be focused on one thing, whereas here, they at least look to be talking of new magic systems, if nothing else.
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Old 2011-09-27, 17:07   Link #1214
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True, although there are some disadvantages that, Vivid is more suitable as a refresher and reference closer to the reader to become familiar with the entire contents of the Mid Childa and Belka. Force is good too, only there's is moment that makes me headache...
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Old 2011-09-27, 17:18   Link #1215
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I don't see Vivid as a refresher. Rather, it looks to be the start of it's own series. It's a branch of the main series, whereas Force looks to be dealing with continuing the main story.

And, to the comment Vivid won't change Midchilda, that's to be expected. With it running alongside Force, they can't have it doing that.
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Old 2011-09-27, 17:33   Link #1216
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And, to the comment Vivid won't change Midchilda, that's to be expected. With it running alongside Force, they can't have it doing that.
To be fair we still don't know how things are going in Mid-Childa druing Force as the main action is in Namek Ruwella, Vaizen and other worlds.
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Old 2011-09-27, 17:38   Link #1217
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One million? I guess it has been a couple years, but I didn't think people liked it that much.
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Old 2011-09-27, 17:43   Link #1218
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It helps that the takubons have extra fanservice.

Vivid is a very safe series. It doesn't do anything drastic or heavy and just eases along at it's own pace. Readers can get comfortable with it and be satisfied with the fan pandering.

Force by comparison is not. It has fans worried that something bad will happen and it'll change what they know and love forever. It's a scary prospect which is part of the reason for the many issues people have with it.
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Old 2011-09-27, 17:43   Link #1219
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True. It could change, but I'd be surprised. The scope looks to be a lot smaller than normal Nanoha.
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Old 2011-09-27, 17:44   Link #1220
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Right? Season 1 through StrikerS had the fate of reality hanging in the balance.

Vivid has girls fighting in a tournament for the lulz.
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