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Old 2011-09-28, 12:00   Link #16861
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
What happened to Iraq when the world thought they might get a nuke?
What the world is doing, while thinking than Iran is almost getting his first nuke.
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Old 2011-09-28, 12:08   Link #16862
JMvS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Just good enough to counter whatever Iran has.
Aren't the Irakis and Iranians all friendly now anyway?
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Old 2011-09-28, 12:15   Link #16863
Vexx
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Well, at least SOME of the US media is connecting the dots a bit across the world's protests against the corruption and economic gaming by the ultra-wealthy at everyone else's expense:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/28/wo...und-globe.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by excerpt from article
Economics have been one driving force, with growing income inequality, high unemployment and recession-driven cuts in social spending breeding widespread malaise. Alienation runs especially deep in Europe, with boycotts and strikes that, in London and Athens, erupted into violence.
But even in India and Israel, where growth remains robust, protesters say they so distrust their country’s political class and its pandering to established interest groups that they feel only an assault on the system itself can bring about real change.
Young Israeli organizers repeatedly turned out gigantic crowds insisting that their political leaders, regardless of party, had been so thoroughly captured by security concerns, ultra-Orthodox groups and other special interests that they could no longer respond to the country’s middle class.
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Old 2011-09-28, 13:38   Link #16864
Sugetsu
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Vexx, the Zeitgeist movement tells it like it is, I for once think you will agree with the following press release, and I challenge anyone to debunk it and how you think this message is just a load of BS.


Quote:
THE ZEITGEIST MOVEMENT: RESPONSE TO "OCCUPY WALL STREET"

www.occupywallst.org

On Sept 17th 2011, a grassroots expression of contempt was launched in
the heart of the world's financial center in lower Manhattan of New York
City, also commonly known to the world as the institution of "Wall
Street". As of Sept 26th, there have been over 80 arrests and many
recorded instances of what appears to be violence and abuse coming from
the police and security forces there. However, the protesters remain
vigilant in what could very well be a landmark event that will resonate
for some time to come.

The Zeitgeist Movement would like to extend its public support to this
basic expression.

As the world awakens to a failing financial system with growing civil
unrest emerging without the bias of sovereignty, religion or political
loyalty, a new, unifying perspective is slowly taking hold which
transcends the framework many of us falsely assume as empirical to our
way of life.

With the slow grind down of the global workforce as machine automation
continues to replace human labor for the benefit of corporate cost
efficiency, simultaneously reducing purchasing power and hence
inevitably stifling so called “Economic Growth”; with the ever
expanding Debt Crisis born out of the Fractional Reserve Lending System
and the simple reality that money is created out of debt and sold as a
commodity in exchange for Interest - Interest that can only again come
onto existence through more loan sales; with the looming military
programs growing in virtually all major powers as the financial crisis,
coupled with a pending hydrocarbon energy crisis, begins to suggest a
stage of global conflict possibly never before seen; along with the
market psychology of Infinite Growth Consumption that continues to
pervade and distort our values and what it means to live in harmony with
nature on a finite planet...

...it might be time we begin to see that the social problems at hand are
not specific to any general policy, administration, or even so called
"corporate greed". The real problem at hand is actually systematic via
the very core foundation of what defines our Economic System and the
psychology that is supported and rewarded.


The historical illusion that continues to this day is that someone or
some group is explicitly to "blame". Rather than focus on the 400 people
who have more wealth than 150 million in America or the fact that globally
1% of the world's population has more wealth than 40%, let's instead ask
ourselves how such a manifestation is even possible and, more critically,
why we would expect anything less? Think about it.

After all, it's the "Free-Market", isn't it? Contrary to the
statistically void efficiency assumptions made by most Market
Economists, the Free-Market simply means anyone can do whatever they
want and maximize however they want within the confines of legal
legislation; legal legislation which, make no mistake, is also for sale
in the Free-Market as well; as are political officials, regulatory
institutions and whatever social entity you wish to consider.

Nothing but maximizing monetary gain is sacred and anytime a person or
group brings some detrimental social or environmental consequence of
this system to the forefront, pejorative distinctions are usually
branded upon their forehead to stifle such concern and frighten other
detractors – such as being called a “Socialist” or “Communist”.


Furthermore, while people in protest today across the world continue to
condemn monetary influence in social dealings such as the legal reality
of Corporate Lobbying, even using such colorful terms as "Corporatism",
“Crony-Capitalism” and even “Fascism”, they seem to misunderstand
what
this system is and always has been.

The Free-Market model of Economics is a haphazard, unscientific anarchy
of organization which assumes that any person or group with
enough money and hence power will be “responsible” in their actions
both socially and environmentally. The problem is that the very
definition of being "financially responsible” actually means to be
socially and environmentally exploitative, manipulative and negligent,
for the main driver of this system is Inefficiency. The more problems in
society in general, the more jobs are created and the more rich the
upper 1% become. There is an empirical decoupling from what actually
supports life and no alteration of the core configuration of the
monetary-market Incentive will likely change that.


On a different level, this system, as an historical evolution, is
actually based on a culturally hegemonic pretense.
Once economic
advantage is obtained, it will likely be kept. This is why everything in
the system favors the wealthy by its general structure and inherent
logic. While the public might complain about the fact that top Hedge Fund
Managers bring in over 300 million dollars per year, they often do not find
objection with an Interest system that rewards those with high deposits
and essentially taxes those using credit. While you may buy your home
with a loan, paying thousands in interest a year, a person of wealth can
make a CD Investment and gain free interest income simply because they have
the money to spare.

Class separation and perpetuation and the growing wealth divide is not a
byproduct. It is inevitable. In the Free-Market, one is actually
“free” to take away the liberty of others through the mere economic
pressures generated from the game. You are only as free as the size of
your wallet. The term “Institution Racism” was coined by civil
rights activist Stokely Carmichael in the 1960s referring to how often
unnoticed underlying policies and structures within the social system
undermined African-American prosperity and equality. What we have today
is a mere variation: “Institutional Classicism”.


Wall Street itself, which is the ultimate manifestation of the pursuit
of money as a commodity rather than any form of true creation or social
contribution, is naturally a ripe entity for symbolic objection for, at
a minimum, it shouldn't exist at all and most certainly not have the
grand effect it does on the stability of the global economy today,
regardless of the inherent shortcomings denoted.

However, that stated, it must again be made clear that Wall Street and
the Banking System are not the source of our problems. They are only
symptoms of an Economic System which will continue to fail by the very
gravity of its outdated and false assumptions of human conduct and
environmental relationships.


The question then becomes, what do we put in its place? ~Z

About:
The Zeitgeist Movement is a global sustainability activist group working
to bring the world together for the common goal of species
sustainability before it is too late. It is a social movement, not a
political one, with over 1100 chapters across nearly all countries.
Divisive notions such as nations, governments, races, political parties,
religions, creeds or class are non-operational distinctions in the view
of The Movement. Rather, we recognize the world as one system and the
human species as a singular unit, sharing a common habitat. Our
overarching intent could be summarized as “the application of the
scientific method for social concern.”


By the way don't you love it how the protest is going?



Also, don't you love it how CNN and Fox news don't care about covering this event? MSNBC has at least tried, but it has done a very poor job at it.

Don't you love it how the mass media reacts to a bunch of tea partiers protesting even if it is only a thousand of them, but events like this gets no coverage at all?

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Last edited by Sugetsu; 2011-09-28 at 14:24.
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Old 2011-09-28, 14:18   Link #16865
Vexx
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Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
I may have to buy me one of those "united states of corporations" flags...

The segment showing the bankers drinking the champagne and mocking the protestors dredges up the precedents to some rather bloody historical moments...
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Old 2011-09-28, 14:22   Link #16866
Sugetsu
Kurumada's lost child
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
The Occupy Wall street protests are still going on, it is all over the internet, and the mass media has turned a blind eye to them.

Correct me if I wrong, but I am in shock, truly, I do not see anyone on this thread comment on the protests, How comes?
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Old 2011-09-28, 14:25   Link #16867
Decagon
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They haven't occupied anything. They're having a nice camp in the park.
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Old 2011-09-28, 14:30   Link #16868
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
They haven't occupied anything. They're having a nice camp in the park.
WTF... Can you be any more dismissive please?
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Old 2011-09-28, 14:39   Link #16869
Decagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
WTF... Can you be any more dismissive please?
Ok, they're had a get-together in the park traders usually go to in order to smoke.
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Old 2011-09-28, 14:46   Link #16870
ganbaru
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Amazon unveils Kindle Fire tablet, priced at $199
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78Q6MJ20110928
Will Amazon's product manage to be a real competitor to the Ipad?
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Old 2011-09-28, 15:05   Link #16871
Sugetsu
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I loled hard when I watched the coverage of the CNN wall street protests:





Meanwhile MSNBC did a good job with this report:

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Old 2011-09-28, 15:09   Link #16872
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
WTF... Can you be any more dismissive please?
they need to riot, burn some building, make a few Molotov cocktails.
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Old 2011-09-28, 15:15   Link #16873
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
they need to riot, burn some building, make a few Molotov cocktails.
I know... then it will be considered "important news" by CNN, due to the sensationalist value of the story, which of course would cast a negative light on the movement and it would be a great excuse for the media to antagonize it.
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Old 2011-09-28, 15:19   Link #16874
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
I know... then it will be considered "important news" by CNN, due to the sensationalist value of the story, which of course would cast a negative light on the movement and it would be a great excuse for the media to antagonize it.
they do need to do something more then sit around and make speeches.

I doubt most New Yorkers know they are even there much less the rest of the country.
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Old 2011-09-28, 15:19   Link #16875
Ithekro
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If it has no effect on Wall Street, there is no real point to doing it really. Trading continues without a hitch, and with some of the value moved to other international trading hubs....there is nothing that these people can really do to effect them. with a protest like this.

Now if they had a "sit in" inside were they could effectively block the monitors and keep traders from doing their jobs..then they might do something.
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Old 2011-09-28, 15:23   Link #16876
Anh_Minh
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They need to occupy Wall Street. As in, get into the actual buildings, take over the computers, and move the money. 'cause, right now, who cares?
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Old 2011-09-28, 16:00   Link #16877
justsomeguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
I doubt most New Yorkers know they are even there much less the rest of the country.
It was mentioned sometime during the weekend on 1010WINS that Wall Street would be occupied. But they did not mention that it's ongoing or that there was police brutality.
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Old 2011-09-28, 16:08   Link #16878
Jinto
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
They need to occupy Wall Street. As in, get into the actual buildings, take over the computers, and move the money. 'cause, right now, who cares?
This would be trespassing and could really turn into violence and riots then. Police would be allowed to use force etc. The whole thing would be stylized as terror attack of unpatriotic scum in the corporate media, and they would call for stricter harder laws to deal with such situations in the future... and before you can count to three you have the police state and similar political conditions like those 3rd world countries that are occasionaly raided to bring democracy by the gun... or something like this (spinning and cynism was intentional).

Their movement is just too small at the moment. But who knows maybe it grows if things keep developing like they do atm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
It was mentioned sometime during the weekend on 1010WINS that Wall Street would be occupied. But they did not mention that it's ongoing or that there was police brutality.
Well, if we consider the police being american cops... they were actually laid back. Police brutality is a little bit of an exageration here (they did not use water cannons yet ).
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Old 2011-09-28, 16:33   Link #16879
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
This would be trespassing and could really turn into violence and riots then. Police would be allowed to use force etc. The whole thing would be stylized as terror attack of unpatriotic scum in the corporate media, and they would call for stricter harder laws to deal with such situations in the future... and before you can count to three you have the police state and similar political conditions like those 3rd world countries that are occasionaly raided to bring democracy by the gun... or something like this (spinning and cynism was intentional).
But they'd talk about it.

As it is now, even if they grow, what can they hope? Become the Central Park version of Burning Man?
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Old 2011-09-28, 16:41   Link #16880
JMvS
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(Russia's) Drug agency’s bid for cannabis superpower

Quote:
Drug and agriculture officials have called for the revival of mass cannabis cultivation in Russia. They say the project has a plethora of benefits, from bringing cash into state coffers to curbing pot-smoking.

Cannabis was one of the country’s most important agricultural products for five centuries. Russia exported hemp to all major European naval nations in the age of sail, when the water-resistant rope made of cannabis fibers was a strategic commodity on a par with iron and gunpowder. Cannabis is also a source of seed oil, livestock foodstuff, pulp for paper production and dozens of other products.

However, after the Soviet Union joined the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs in 1961, strict regulations on cannabis cultivation were implemented and the industry was all but eradicated.

Now, some officials say it is time to revive Russia’s position as a cannabis superpower. Among them is the head of the Federal Drug Control Agency, Viktor Ivanov, who has been acting as an advocate for the plant – best-known as the source of the recreational drug – at an anti-narcotics council on Wednesday.

[...]

At the peak of its production in the Soviet Union, some 700,000 hectares of land were used for cannabis. At one point, Russia was responsible for four-fifths (80%) of global cannabis production. Today, Russia has 2,000 hectares of industrial cannabis, as against 30,000 ha in China.
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