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Old 2011-09-14, 00:56   Link #3361
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redoaxe View Post
Can someone translate this?
"Win and Lose Conditions"
win condition: Defeat Riinhart (which is the guy marked by 02)
lose condition: All allies annihilated
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Old 2011-09-14, 13:30   Link #3362
Redoaxe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larethian View Post
win condition: Defeat Riinhart (which is the guy marked by 02)
lose condition: All allies annihilated
Thanks!
It will be easier now that I know I just need to kill the 'boss' and not the mobs.

Btw, Sorry for posting it here, I didn't found the translation thread.
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Old 2011-09-22, 06:46   Link #3363
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Can anyone here explain to me the difference between ばしょ and ところ?

I know they both mean "place" but they seem to be used differently...
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Old 2011-09-22, 08:41   Link #3364
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ばしょ is the Chinese reading of the kanji 所. ところ is the Japanese reading of the same kanji.

Don't know how exactly to differentiate their use though, lol.
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Old 2011-09-22, 09:10   Link #3365
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khu View Post
ばしょ is the Chinese reading of the kanji 所. ところ is the Japanese reading of the same kanji.

Don't know how exactly to differentiate their use though, lol.
Noooot quite.

It works better if they're written in kanji

【ばしょ】 (n) place, location, (P)
【ところ】 (n) (1) place, spot, scene, site, (2) address, (3) district, area, locality, (4) one's house, (5) point, (6) part, (7) space, room, (P)

'tokoro' is the kunyomi of that kanji, you are correct but the onyomi (sho) makes up one half of 'basho'.

In a nutshell, 'ba' 場 in 'basho' has a 'physical' place, whereas 'tokoro' is used a lot mainly for 'non physical' circumstances (I'm at a point, part in my life) or to decribe a general 'area'.

I just studied it without thinking on it too much, not now I take a step back, it seems to be the simpliest difference between them. Focus on their uses not the English, trust me you'll save some sanity points that way
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Old 2011-09-22, 20:25   Link #3366
Pink Cow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Noooot quite.

It works better if they're written in kanji

【ばしょ】 (n) place, location, (P)
【ところ】 (n) (1) place, spot, scene, site, (2) address, (3) district, area, locality, (4) one's house, (5) point, (6) part, (7) space, room, (P)

'tokoro' is the kunyomi of that kanji, you are correct but the onyomi (sho) makes up one half of 'basho'.

In a nutshell, 'ba' 場 in 'basho' has a 'physical' place, whereas 'tokoro' is used a lot mainly for 'non physical' circumstances (I'm at a point, part in my life) or to decribe a general 'area'.

I just studied it without thinking on it too much, not now I take a step back, it seems to be the simpliest difference between them. Focus on their uses not the English, trust me you'll save some sanity points that way
So... Based on what you just gave me, is it safe to say ところ is more specific than ばしょ?
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Old 2011-09-22, 21:41   Link #3367
Marcus H.
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^ Au contraire, tokoro can be used on more things than basho.
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Old 2011-09-22, 21:51   Link #3368
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Cow View Post
So... Based on what you just gave me, is it safe to say ところ is more specific than ばしょ?
not really.

場所 is usually a physical location.
ところ can be both physical or non-physical, usually physical when it's written in kanji, and non-physical in kana (but it's not a rule).
example of non physical usage for ところ:
ところで: by the way (an expression)
彼にもかわいいところがあります: he can also be cute sometimes. (literally: he also has his cute areas)

definitions:
場所 : http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2...0%B4%E6%89%80/
ところ:http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2...1%93%E3%82%8D/

actually, it's much easier to understand if you look at examples of how it's used:
場所 : http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E5%A0%B4%E6%89%80/UTF-8/?pg=1
所: http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E6%89%80/UTF-8/
ところ: http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E3%81%A8%E3%81.../UTF-8/?ref=sa

Last edited by larethian; 2011-09-23 at 04:09.
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Old 2011-09-23, 04:02   Link #3369
Kylaran
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If you're familiar with onyomi and kunyomi, it is somewhat safe to assume that many onyomi readings are more limited than an existing equivalent kunyomi counterpart. The reason for this is that kanji were not borrowed from China as a systematic whole, but in bits of pieces during different eras, and that the original purpose of these borrowings was to convey concepts that may previously have not existed and/or could be more elaborately stated in Chinese characters. Of course, there are exceptions.
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Old 2011-09-24, 23:07   Link #3370
Pink Cow
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Thanks guys!

Especially to larethian. Those links were very useful!
Everyone else's explanations were also helpful.

It looks like ばしょ and ところ aren't too easy to explain. Lol. But you guys still helped a lot.
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Old 2011-09-30, 05:16   Link #3371
risingstar3110
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Hey guys, can i have a quick question on Japanese?

How do you say this in Japanese:
The horse is probably trying to make you like it

The best i can think of is below, but it probably does not even make sense:
Uma ha jibun ni sukinisaseru, tabun.
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Old 2011-09-30, 12:58   Link #3372
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Hey guys, can i have a quick question on Japanese?

How do you say this in Japanese:
The horse is probably trying to make you like it

The best i can think of is below, but it probably does not even make sense:
Uma ha jibun ni sukinisaseru, tabun.
Firstly, I need to highlight that my Japanese is still pretty rudimentary, compared to many people I know. And my writing sucks, so I'm not really qualified to give you a suggestion. But I can give you some of my humble input from my rudimentary level through a reverse translation of your version while waiting for someone more qualified to come along. I'd say this first: I stand corrected if I make a mistake

Now that my disclaimer is made, there are actually a few potential problems with the sentence even though it might appear correct grammatically. But before that, is this a stand-alone sentence? Or part of a larger context? The later will depend on the context and to what has occurred before. Regardless however, the sentence does sound a little strange.

Additionally, I believe you are trying to mean:
the horse is doing something to win your favor, that is to say make itself appealing to you?
Because the way you put it sounds like the horse is trying to 'force' you into liking it, implying you don't have a choice. And causative form has that kind of effect sometimes. If that's really the case, then normally, using causative form can be appropriate (though here there's another issue).

Your sentence is:
馬は自分に好きにさせる。
I dropped 'tabun' because there's nothing wrong with it and it's inconsequential to the issue here.

My 2 cents:
1. Is it really necessary to apply は to 馬? Is the horse really that important? Assuming you are using は as a topic marker here, you can think of 馬は as "As for the horse", "With reference to the horse". In a larger context, it can also add the effect of meaning, "The horse (but not anything else)". So is it really important to convey the meaning in this manner is my question.

2. 自分 here is a misuse. Because 自分 can mean himself, herself, myself, yourself; it depends on the context and the topic. I'm not sure whether 自分 is restricted to humans only, but based on the structure of the sentence, 自分 seems to be referring to the horse itself.

3. 好きにさせる, ie. 好きにする is a misuse. If you want to describe "turning into a state of liking", なる should be used instead. 好きにする actually means "Do (something) as one pleases". eg. XXXXを好きにする where する is applied to XXXX, so XXXX is the thing that is being done, not 好き. In the first place, note that する is "do", an action. If assuming 好き can be done, then it should be "好きする" or "好きをする", which of course doesn't work for 好き. In short, 好きにさせる thus means "let (someone) do (something) as he pleases".

I'm not sure what you are trying to describe. But I think structure wise, it might be better to keep 'yourself' as an implied topic of discussion and use possibly passive-causative in such circumstances. Unless the subject (horse in this case) really becomes a topic of discussion, or you're making a comparison / emphasis of some sort in the context of discussion. Assuming my assumption is right about what you're trying to describe. I'd use "アピールする" instead of "好き". I'll let you figure out the sentence yourself, or wait for someone more qualified than me.


If you want to practice writing, you can try out this site recommended by Doraneko, who does not seem to be active at AS much these days:
http://lang-8.com/
where native speakers will correct you.
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Old 2011-09-30, 18:41   Link #3373
Raiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Hey guys, can i have a quick question on Japanese?

How do you say this in Japanese:
The horse is probably trying to make you like it

The best i can think of is below, but it probably does not even make sense:
Uma ha jibun ni sukinisaseru, tabun.
I have to wonder what context this sentence is for. o_O

馬は多分あなたに(あれを)好かせようとしているだろう is the best I can think of.
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Old 2011-09-30, 19:46   Link #3374
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
I have to wonder what context this sentence is for. o_O

馬は多分あなたに(あれを)好かせようとしているだろう is the best I can think of.
Well something like:
At first i hate the horse, and keep throw nut (or potato) trying to chase it away. But despite that, it keeps hanging around like it seems trying to make me like it

Probably more nature in English than in Japanese. But then i can't think of a way to break it down, When i said "Uma ha jibun ni suki ni saseru, tabun". I tried to use the causative, "the horse probably trying to make itself likeable". "Ni suru" as when to make something +adjective (kantan ni suru = make it simpler) rather than "ni" as a purpose. But probably can't put it like that with "suki" afterall...

If it does not make sense, i will just rid of that line

And can't give cookies for Raiga yet as well...
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Last edited by risingstar3110; 2011-09-30 at 20:07.
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Old 2011-10-01, 20:53   Link #3375
NoemiChan
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Questions! Why does subber's have different translations of a particular anime?
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Old 2011-10-01, 21:18   Link #3376
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genjichan View Post
Questions! Why does subber's have different translations of a particular anime?
I think because firstly there are different ways to translate a line. Secondly, in a language like Japanese, there are lots of implication and the exact meaning heavily be affected by the context
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Old 2011-10-01, 21:36   Link #3377
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genjichan View Post
Questions! Why does subber's have different translations of a particular anime?
In the first place Japanese doesn't translate well into English as much as the other way round. Translation is more of an art than a science, and there is no right or wrong as long as the meaning it is intended to convey is retained. Even if the subs are different, the meaning should not differ too much, unless one of the translators made a mistake in interpretation, or if a loose translation was used for a particular line to make it flow. If a show has self-invented words, non-standard names, and its own terminologies, then its up to the subber to use the one he or she thinks fits, unless there is an official English glossary provided by the source. And then there's word play lines where some translators use notes and others work it out in English even if the actual meaning diverges somewhat. The way lines are translated can also reflect the experience and English capabilities of the translator. Some of the new, inexperienced translators tend to be more literal than experienced ones. Finally, some translators prefer things to be completely localized (like Honorifics and cultural stuff) while others prefer to preserve these things in Nihonglish.
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Old 2011-10-01, 21:56   Link #3378
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So that means one should take in consideration the dialogues as a whole and not translating them word by word. A translator should derive the meanings within the dialogues, and not what it appears?
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Old 2011-10-01, 22:26   Link #3379
Kylaran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genjichan View Post
So that means one should take in consideration the dialogues as a whole and not translating them word by word. A translator should derive the meanings within the dialogues, and not what it appears?
Unfortunately, there are many different approaches to translation, the broadest two divisions between strict/literal translation and liberal translation. Quite frankly, given the same text, two translators could read the same meaning from them, but when changing it to English they may simply have different ideas about how the message is best conveyed. Some people have different ideas of what it means to be accurate to the original creator's intention/meaning.

You have to realize there's more to translation that just meaning. You have to consider the flow of conversation, connotations of words, and so many different things that could make two translations of the same text turn out differently. Another thing is sentence length: Japanese sentences can be vastly shorter or longer than their English counterparts, and in those situations a translator has to be considerate of phrasing and time on screen.

Second, natural language arises out of different backgrounds-- in different situations, you may find that different languages stress different things and/or word the things differently. Just because you can speak both languages, doesn't mean you can effectively convey one idea in one language into another without having properly thought about how to do it. This requires time, and quite frankly, depending on your sub group, they'll have translators with different amounts of time and varying degrees of study in translation. And yes, translating/interpreting requires separate training from just learning a language or even teaching a language.

I'll let you in on a little secret: Not all subs have accurate translations. In fact, some translations you see might be done by a Chinese-English translator translating Chinese subs to English. Other translations may be done haphazardly by non-fluent learners.

Quote:
In the first place Japanese doesn't translate well into English as much as the other way round.
There is no way this statement can be objective. To a Japanese person, they may feel like it's easier to translate Japanese into English than English into Japanese.
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Old 2011-10-02, 06:26   Link #3380
risingstar3110
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Question: is there a proverb in Japan about "as calm as XXX"? In Japanese of course

The context is, for example about a human or an animal stay really calm when being stared at by his/its supposed enemy
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