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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 37 47.44%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 27 34.62%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 10.26%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 5.13%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.28%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.28%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-10-03, 17:42   Link #141
YayPepsi
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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For me he's already selfish.
Well, I do disagree with that then, because at this point in time I don't think he's selfish at all when it comes to Himari, and he won't be for me until he commits the selfish act of harming an innocent person for her sake. But even then, for me it won't negate his self-sacrifice, because that's a separate act entirely and IMO a selfless one.
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Old 2011-10-03, 18:58   Link #142
mellomarie
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Originally Posted by YayPepsi View Post
Well, I do disagree with that then, because at this point in time I don't think he's selfish at all when it comes to Himari, and he won't be for me until he commits the selfish act of harming an innocent person for her sake. But even then, for me it won't negate his self-sacrifice, because that's a separate act entirely and IMO a selfless one.
i mostly agree.

but at the same time, i'm confused at why being selfish and self-sacrificial is mutually exclusive? can't kanba have both motivations?

he obviously loves her, regardless of what we think that love may entail, but he loves her enough to sacrifice himself. ultimately, himari is the one benefiting from the transaction (if it had worked).

but within the story's narrative, kanba saving himari in this way is a taboo. it's wrong, even though the idea of somebody saving another's life in exchange for their own isn't bad at all. that's why we have the parallel to incest and why watching kanba attempt to save his sister felt icky (though not to me really, but that's another story )

clearly kanba is following in his father's footsteps and all that's left is for kanba to be tempted by the black bunnies in the same way. that's when kanba has to steal ashes from the goddess's torch (who may be ringo, idk) and i think that's when things will get messy.
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Old 2011-10-03, 20:13   Link #143
YayPepsi
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but at the same time, i'm confused at why being selfish and self-sacrificial is mutually exclusive? can't kanba have both motivations?
I suppose he can and he probably does have both motivations. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think being happy that you saved your loved one or saving them because you don't want to live in a world without them is necessarily a bad sort of selfishness and it doesn't remove the selflessness of the act.

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that's why we have the parallel to incest and why watching kanba attempt to save his sister felt icky (though not to me really, but that's another story )
Me neither. But I think that's obvious. XD
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Old 2011-10-03, 21:23   Link #144
mellomarie
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Originally Posted by YayPepsi View Post
I suppose he can and he probably does have both motivations. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think being happy that you saved your loved one or saving them because you don't want to live in a world without them is necessarily a bad sort of selfishness and it doesn't remove the selflessness of the act.
oh i agree, i was just making a general sort of comment the emotions we're talking about are rarely black and white. but i think out of all the characters in the show, kanba's motivations seem to be the least compromised or difficult to pinpoint.


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Me neither. But I think that's obvious. XD
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Old 2011-10-03, 22:17   Link #145
ttdestroy
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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This sh*t just got real?!

While Kanba's emotions seem the least complex to understand, Shoma seems the most complicated. Shoma is an okay guy and everything but it never seems like he's motivated about anything.

As a side note why did it say there was only one boy born, I thought Shoma and Kanba were born on the same day, is one adopted or am I looking at bad subs?
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Old 2011-10-04, 19:44   Link #146
risingstar3110
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by ttdestroy View Post
This sh*t just got real?!

While Kanba's emotions seem the least complex to understand, Shoma seems the most complicated. Shoma is an okay guy and everything but it never seems like he's motivated about anything.

As a side note why did it say there was only one boy born, I thought Shoma and Kanba were born on the same day, is one adopted or am I looking at bad subs?
It can be translation error since in original Japanese dialogue, there isn't any specific word indicating only one boy was born . Still open for debate of course
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