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Old 2011-10-05, 09:19   Link #2361
Nanya01
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Actually, Keroko, Wing Road is an I.S. ability. Just not the same as Vibration Shatter.

Shari was complaining about working Wing Road into Mach Calibur because it was an inherited ability.

Plus, Nove's Linebreaker is an I.S. and it's basically Wing Road. Nove's unique I.S. is her ability to use her equipment to it's maximum potential instantly.

Also, Wing Road has something that flight doesn't have...

It sticks around so that people can run on it after Subaru, Nove or Ginga.

*Points to the end of StrikerS and how they escaped the Cradle*

Not to mention that in enclosed spaces, Subaru, Nove and Ginga are far faster than someone who can fly is. (Episode 17)

And before you say that cyborgs can only have one IS ability, don't forget that Wendi commented that she has powers similar to Dieci and Cinque. Her I.S. is Areal Rave and that's just flying on her hover board, she's still able to shoot like Dieci can and she can make metal explode like Cinque.
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Old 2011-10-05, 09:44   Link #2362
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
No they wouldn't, that's why it's called "inherent." It's equipment specially attuned to them and them alone.
Which might only mean that no one else can use Dieci's overlarge gun or Wendi's hoverboard, but which still leaves them completely unarmed and out of tricks if those weapons are damaged or taken away.

Whereas ISs like flight and Ray Storm are internal, and any damage that would disable them would likely have left the cyborg disabled anyway.


Quote:
Again, no. Wing road is magic, not IS.
Ah-ha. "Inherent MAGIC", not Inherent SKILL.

Well, I thought that was just Shari fudging the term for confidentiality'ssake; that is, I thought the show alluding to Subaru's cyborg nature without outright telling us that she was a cyborg.

I figured it really WAS an Inherent Skill, especially since Wing Road continued to work even in total Anti-Magilink conditions, when everything but barrier jackets failed.

Especially since there was absolutely no other mention of "Inherent Magic" or how it was different from normal magic. Maybe it's an extremely rare sort of ability that Scaglietti used as the basis of his technological Inherent Skills?

If it has a biological origin, that would explain why it was reliably inherited in all three clones.


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Cloning cyborgs and Project F are two different things. There is no proof that Erio was done by the same scientists
I didn't say (or mean to say) anything of the sort. Not that engineers in both crimes were the same, but rather that the rogue cyborg engineers might have (or did) have access to the same information on Project F that Erio's creators had.


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Yes she did.
Well, how 'bout that. I stand corrected, and a lot of things are cleared up.


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The scientists had nothing to do with the rollerblades or wing road.
But they probably DID plan on both, because why else would they choose her?

Unless that one theory is true, and she was secretly involved with the very people she turnedaround and arrested, using them to give herself children because she (theoretically) was barren.


Quote:
Nove was cloned from Quint, who had wing road as one of her skills, which is where Air Liner comes from.
And apparently Break Liner is just a collective name given to all of her Inherent Skills and Equipment, rather than another individual ability. Like the technological equivalent of the purely-skill-based "Shooting Arts".


Quote:
I don't recall such foreshadowing ever being present in the first place.
When Nove first appears on screen, she's the only Number whose face is shrouded in shadow, obstensibly to hide the similarities between her face and Subaru's. All it really does is hide her colors, making her look MORE like Subaru. Sharing the same voice actor also tips us off.

A mirror-match clone is always supposed to be bad news, especially when she reacts to news of her original with bitterness and hostility, promising to show them she's superior, and being told by the other Numbers that she is going to give them a tough fight.

A fight which never actually comes, because Nove never gets a proper duel with either sister; she always engages them as part of a team.

Ginga handily defeats Nove and her backup until Cinque arrives.

When Subaru enters the scene and goes berserk, she and Nove face off alone for the second or two it takes Subaru to curbstorm her. An exchange that favored Subaru, who was fully motivated and undistracted, whereas Nove was not as psychologically primed and possibly even intimidated. All in all, not a very "fair" match.
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Old 2011-10-05, 09:49   Link #2363
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Ginga handily defeats Nove and her backup until Cinque arrives.
That's QUITE wrong.

Cinque is fighting Ginga alone and Nove and Wendi are off beating on the Forwards until Teana and Caro get them enough time to escape. Nove and Wendi aren't sure which group to follow, then Cinque calls them up and says "I've got the other Type Zero over here, can't beat her alone without killing her, mind if you help me out?"
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Old 2011-10-05, 10:07   Link #2364
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Ah. So I remember that particular element completely backwards.

However, it still robs Nove of any importance, as she's still just one of the three cyborgs needed to defeat Ginga*, we don't even see the fight, and Berserker Subaru wallops her shortly afterwards. Then Nove doesn't even get her rematch, but is instead defeated by Teana despite three-to-one odds.


* And it wasn't even a fight they found easy enough to simply "capture" her. From all appearances, she still put up so much of a fight they were only able to beat her by going all-out and breaking her.


You have to wonder how they felt about doing that to another cyborg, someone who was practically a sister.

Also, how they felt about Vivio, whom was also cloned and created by Scaglietti. (But then, releasing the girl barely-clothes, dirty and beat up in a sewer with a relic case chained to her ankle doesn't make ANY sense at all.)
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Old 2011-10-05, 10:58   Link #2365
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Vivio broke out of her restraints by herself and broke the truck on her own.
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Old 2011-10-05, 11:04   Link #2366
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Actually, Keroko, Wing Road is an I.S. ability. Just not the same as Vibration Shatter.

Shari was complaining about working Wing Road into Mach Calibur because it was an inherited ability.
Oh yeah, that's true. I forgot because some bloke apparently didn't mind totally contradicting that in the anime it was clearly magic. Circle and all, it even gets affected by AMF.

Honestly? I'm not sure whether I trust that part of the manga translation... I think she meant something else, especially considering the whole Subaru cyborg/IS thing wasn't revealed yet at the time of the chapters release, if I recall.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Which might only mean that no one else can use Dieci's overlarge gun or Wendi's hoverboard, but which still leaves them completely unarmed and out of tricks if those weapons are damaged or taken away.

Whereas ISs like flight and Ray Storm are internal, and any damage that would disable them would likely have left the cyborg disabled anyway.
True. Though they still have their physical enhancements to rely on. And on the same note a Nanoha without Raising Heart is also a ton weaker.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Especially since there was absolutely no other mention of "Inherent Magic" or how it was different from normal magic. Maybe it's an extremely rare sort of ability that Scaglietti used as the basis of his technological Inherent Skills?

If it has a biological origin, that would explain why it was reliably inherited in all three clones.
Well, there is that Belka rare skill thing that was mentioned. Which is pretty much the same, except not engineered.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I didn't say (or mean to say) anything of the sort. Not that engineers in both crimes were the same, but rather that the rogue cyborg engineers might have (or did) have access to the same information on Project F that Erio's creators had.
Hrmm, possibly. Though considering neither Subaru nor Ginga have memories it's unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But they probably DID plan on both, because why else would they choose her?
Vibration shatter? It's the shooting arts taken to the extreme, a pretty darn powerful ability.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Unless that one theory is true, and she was secretly involved with the very people she turnedaround and arrested, using them to give herself children because she (theoretically) was barren.
... Wow, you need to tell me where you find these theories.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
When Nove first appears on screen, she's the only Number whose face is shrouded in shadow, obstensibly to hide the similarities between her face and Subaru's. All it really does is hide her colors, making her look MORE like Subaru. Sharing the same voice actor also tips us off.

A mirror-match clone is always supposed to be bad news, especially when she reacts to news of her original with bitterness and hostility, promising to show them she's superior, and being told by the other Numbers that she is going to give them a tough fight.
Hmm, yeah I can understand how you might see that as foreshadowing. I don't consider a reliance that the viewer knows his tropes to be proper foreshading myself, hence why I saw no foreshadowing.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
You have to wonder how they felt about doing that to another cyborg, someone who was practically a sister.

Also, how they felt about Vivio, whom was also cloned and created by Scaglietti. (But then, releasing the girl barely-clothes, dirty and beat up in a sewer with a relic case chained to her ankle doesn't make ANY sense at all.)
Actually, Vivio wasn't created by Jail. Jail just dumped the genetic info on the internet and told scientist around the multiverse "go nuts" and then sat back and waited for someone to succeed while he continued tinkering with cyborgs and ancient Belkan battleships.
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Old 2011-10-05, 11:10   Link #2367
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Could just be like, as you said, Keroko, a Belkan Rare Skill but the translators screwed it up.

After all, I'm pretty sure that Carim and Verossa both inherited their skills from their ancestors.

Which would be why Jail cloned Nove from Quint (or Subaru, not certain, I think from Quint myself, though considering that Subaru's a clone of Quint, it doesn't matter, huh?), he wanted the skill that's passed on from parent to child and then helped Nove out with her own unique I.S.

After all, Sein admitted her I.S. was a mutation.

And, as we've seen with Otto and Deed, just because you're related doesn't mean you'll get the same I.S.
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Old 2011-10-05, 11:18   Link #2368
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But as can be seen from the main characters, RF6 also has access to mages from the Air Force (Nanoha, also Signum IIRC) and Navy (Fate). Nobody seems to think that the Forwards needs some air cover too, considering that their seniors rarely ever provided that service to them, always being preoccupied elsewhere?
All the air mages that joined in did so because they were friends of Hayate. In the first episode Hayate even lamented on how the Air Force always stole the credit and how she wanted to create a Ground Force unit that could do the job themselves.
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Old 2011-10-05, 12:09   Link #2369
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Part of the Subaru vs. Nove foreshadowing came from the second OP, as that featured Subaru clashing with Nove and Teana fighting Wendi and Deed.

As for this Wing Road inconsistency, we can always go back and pick up the raw and find someone more accurate to translate it for us.
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Old 2011-10-05, 12:12   Link #2370
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Part of the Subaru vs. Nove foreshadowing came from the second OP, as that featured Subaru clashing with Nove and Teana fighting Wendi and Deed.

As for this Wing Road inconsistency, we can always go back and pick up the raw and find someone more accurate to translate it for us.
We just need Nagumo and vic vic to do a fusion dance.
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Old 2011-10-05, 13:54   Link #2371
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
True. Though they still have their physical enhancements to rely on. And on the same note a Nanoha without Raising Heart is also a ton weaker.
Indeed, but even without RH, Nanoha is far from defenseless(unless she's facing and Eclipse Driver xDU) as we withnessed when she cools Teana's head. Shge explicity tell raising Heart to not help her.
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Old 2011-10-05, 14:21   Link #2372
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Oh yeah, that's true. I forgot because some bloke apparently didn't mind totally contradicting that in the anime it was clearly magic. Circle and all, it even gets affected by AMF.
Is there a difference between Subaru in and out of "combat cyborg" mode?

If I'm reading certain lines from the wiki right, when Subaru activates her combat mode, she switches from using mana to using whatever internal energy source cyborgs use. Which means she can't cast spells like Divine Buster (melee), while other spells like Revolver Spike work just fine.

The AMF would be no problem if she's able to create Wing Road with non-magical energy the way Nove does with Air Liner.


Quote:
they still have their physical enhancements to rely on
And that's not an insignificant thing, I agree. But those are the same physical enhancements that ALL of the Cyborgs have, so those Cyborgs who cannot be so easily disarmed still have superior capability.


Quote:
And on the same note a Nanoha without Raising Heart is also a ton weaker.
True. We have no idea if Nanoha could reliably cast magic in combat with an opponent of roughly equal skill.

Against Subaru and Teana, when Teana pulled her stunt, Nanoha grabbed the initiative, held the psychological advantage, and then kept them off their game as she schooled them. And of course, they were unskilled and relatively weak opponents.


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Well, there is that Belka rare skill thing that was mentioned. Which is pretty much the same, except not engineered.
Not mechanically engineered, but certainly genetically so.


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Hrmm, possibly. Though considering neither Subaru nor Ginga have memories it's unlikely.
Project F is two particular technologies in one -- Cloning and Memory Copying/Download.

But like I said earliery, you don't always WANT the memories of the person you're cloning, such as when you don't want to replace someone, and especially when you're making two clones and planning to introduce them to each other and raise them together as sisters.

Unless the two didn't actually meet each other until Quint found them, and both o them were operating on Quint's memories as a three and two-year old girl, respectively.

Part of the reason for Project F's memory-copying technology was to produce psychologically viable artificial mages, with developed minds and personalities despite being artificially aged. A child who jumps from fetus to six year old without any experiences in-between would be effectively retarded.

Obviously, Scaglietti found or figured out some alternative solution to produce his own artificially aged daughters without needing to copy someone's else's memories and identity. Whether or not this technology was also leaked is unknown.


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... Wow, you need to tell me where you find these theories.
That one isn't mine; it's a theory someone posted in the WMG section (or the It Bugs Me section) on TVTropes.

It was related to theories about why Zest's corpse was cloned and Megane was taken alive and put into suspended animation, whereas Quint was killed and left dead.

Someone suggested that Quint knew too much about Scaglietti for him to let her live or bring her back to life, or that they had worked together and Quint double-crossed him.


Quote:
Hmm, yeah I can understand how you might see that as foreshadowing. I don't consider a reliance that the viewer knows his tropes to be proper foreshading myself, hence why I saw no foreshadowing.
I don't think people need to know tropes to think that. Nove and everyone around her were straight-out saying that she was similar bu superior to the Nakajima sisters, and Nove was futher leaving no doubt that she hated them and wanted to fight and beat them.

And if it wasn't supposed to be dramatic and tense, there would have been no reason to hide her in shadow or be ambiguous about being genetically the same as Subaru.


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Actually, Vivio wasn't created by Jail. Jail just dumped the genetic info on the internet and told scientist around the multiverse "go nuts" and then sat back and waited for someone to succeed while he continued tinkering with cyborgs and ancient Belkan battleships.
...I want to ask if you're kidding. I really do. It seems too ridiculous to accept.

He HAD the technology! He MADE the cloning technology, minus the memory copying that Precia perfected, but Vivio DIDN'T have the memories of her donor anyway.

Considering how vital a lynchpin the Kaiser's clone was to his plans, WHY didn't he create and raise her himself as another of his daughters, so that she'd willingly obey him?

It's not like he would have to reveal to the Brains that he was using the Sankt Kaiser's DNA to make one of the Numbers, and how would they know unless he told them? It's a thing he could have hidden.

Certainly, the Sankt Kaiser as a Combat Cyborg would have been more useful than someone like Deed. Or even someone like Brainwashed Ginga.


It only makes sense if creating an artificial mage is a noticeably different process than making a combat cyborg who just happens to have potential as a mage.

Maybe when you make a combat cyborg, there's no garauntee that you'd get a potentially strong mage out of it.

Perhaps this theoretically unmistakeable Artificial Mage creation technology is the only way to reliably produce a clone as powerful as the Sankt Kaiser's heir would need to be.

If the Brains had forbidden Scaglietti from producing any Artificial Mages, and they would be able to tell if he was doing so with his Numbers, then that would handily explain why he had to rely on someone else to do it for him.


And with Vivio being an "out of house" product, he might not have seen her as one of his daughters, but merely as a tool. Therefore, she didn't rate as deserving the affection he gave the Numbers.

(Of course, there's also the possiblity that he doesn't actually think of the Numbers as people. "A Numbered Existence" explores this through Sette's eyes, I believe. Even his desire to offer wine in remembrance of Due might have been more to a lost work of art than a dead daughter.)


But why would the Brains forbid Scaglietti from producing Artificial Mages? Why insist that he work exclusively with Combat Cyborgs?

Cloned mages could be clandestinely created and slipped quietly into the TSAB through orphanges, adoptions and military academies. Even if the technology could not be officially condoned, the PRODUCTS of that technology could be freely introduced into the ranks of the TSAB and be accepted without suspicion.

By contrast, Combat Cyborgs are immediately obvious. You CAN'T have them join the military without inherently revealing that someone is using illegal technology.

Further, even if people figured out that the Artificial Mages are clones, human beings are going to be more comfortable accepting completely organic folk as normal people than they are to accept people who are 50% prosthetics.


In short, unless Artificial Mage creation is simply THAT exspensive and cost ineffective, Combat Cyborg production makes no sense. And I can't imagine that CCs are that much cheaper or easier to produce -- and that's before considering the costs of DEVELOPING that technology.

And if Project F was too expensive, the SMART answer is to keep developing the technology until Scaglietti finds a way to make it cheaper and easier. Abandoning the technology and forcing him to go off in a completely different direction makes no sense.

Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 2011-10-05 at 15:10.
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Old 2011-10-05, 15:07   Link #2373
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We just need Nagumo and vic vic to do a fusion dance.
There`s a problem... I actually don`t like dragonball.

In any case, I can`t translate something if I don`t have any raws.
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Old 2011-10-05, 15:18   Link #2374
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I'll PM you the raws Nagumo.
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Old 2011-10-05, 16:10   Link #2375
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Indeed, but even without RH, Nanoha is far from defenseless(unless she's facing and Eclipse Driver xDU) as we withnessed when she cools Teana's head. Shge explicity tell raising Heart to not help her.
She doesn't tell Raising Heart not to help her, just to return to gem mode. There's a difference.

But regardless, no Nanoha is not helpless without Raising Heart, but she is a ton weaker since she has been using Raising Heart for virtually everything since she began, and particularly cartridges since A's.

But she still has access to magic, and that's the main thing: A cyborg who uses inherent equipment also still has access to their upgraded body.

So yeah, it's easy to point at inherent equipment and call it a flaw, but it goes both ways.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Is there a difference between Subaru in and out of "combat cyborg" mode?
Yeah, there's a difference, but what exactly those differences are we can only guess at. The only thing we know is that she needs to activate it to use vibration shatter. And that's all we know.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
And that's not an insignificant thing, I agree. But those are the same physical enhancements that ALL of the Cyborgs have, so those Cyborgs who cannot be so easily disarmed still have superior capability.
Aye, just as a mage who loses his device also still has access to his magic. It also serves to note that the different cyborgs have different specs.

Uno: A rank
Due: A rank
Tre: S+ rank
Quattro: B rank
Cinque: AA rank
Sein: A rank
Sette: S rank
Otto: B rank
Nove: AAA rank
Diece: A rank
Wendi: AA rank
Deed: AA rank

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Not mechanically engineered, but certainly genetically so.
Bar Hayate who got hers from Reinforce, that is pure speculation. Neither Carim nor Accous were ever confirmed to be genetically engineered to my knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Project F is two particular technologies in one -- Cloning and Memory Copying/Download.

But like I said earliery, you don't always WANT the memories of the person you're cloning, such as when you don't want to replace someone, and especially when you're making two clones and planning to introduce them to each other and raise them together as sisters.

Unless the two didn't actually meet each other until Quint found them, and both o them were operating on Quint's memories as a three and two-year old girl, respectively.

Part of the reason for Project F's memory-copying technology was to produce psychologically viable artificial mages, with developed minds and personalities despite being artificially aged. A child who jumps from fetus to six year old without any experiences in-between would be effectively retarded.

Obviously, Scaglietti found or figured out some alternative solution to produce his own artificially aged daughters without needing to copy someone's else's memories and identity. Whether or not this technology was also leaked is unknown.
Actually, the point of Project F was pretty much immortality. The idea that if you died, you could just download your memory in the next clone and carry on. It was Al Hazard technology brought back by Jail, with the help of random scientists (among which was Precia). Not so much a soldier creating technique, the cyborg project and project F are separate in that department.

I don't think people need to know tropes to think that. Nove and everyone around her were straight-out saying that she was similar bu superior to the Nakajima sisters, and Nove was futher leaving no doubt that she hated them and wanted to fight and beat them.

And if it wasn't supposed to be dramatic and tense, there would have been no reason to hide her in shadow or be ambiguous about being genetically the same as Subaru.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
...I want to ask if you're kidding. I really do. It seems too ridiculous to accept.

He HAD the technology! He MADE the cloning technology, minus the memory copying that Precia perfected, but Vivio DIDN'T have the memories of her donor anyway.
Nope, that's pretty much what happened. He even said so in StrikerS. In detail.

Jail is someone who loves open sourcing his projects. Whenever he hits a stump (such as the Project F memory copy) he opens his research to whoever has an interest in it and lets them figure it out, reaping the rewards for himself later.

You say he had the technology, and to a degree he did. He had the technology to clone people that he had in his possession. The Saint King's genetic data was residue of blood on a piece of cloth, a good 150 years old. The difference could not be more vast.

So he hit a stump, how do I solve the genetic puzzle of a 150 year old degraded genetic code? The answer: Open source it, let other people figure it out, and reap the rewards.

And it worked like a charm.

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It only makes sense if creating an artificial mage is a noticeably different process than making a combat cyborg who just happens to have potential as a mage.
Well, yes it is actually. The two are only similar in the way that they use existing genetic data as a source. And that's where the similarities pretty much end. But whereas artificial mages try to create a copy as identical as possible to the original, the cyborgs are genetically modified to be different from the very start. It's a necessary procedure to allow the body to handle the cybernetic enhancements without the piles and piles of complications that come with it (body rejecting enhancements, the upgrades being too much for the body etc. etc.)

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But why would the Brains forbid Scaglietti from producing Artificial Mages? Why insist that he work exclusively with Combat Cyborgs?
Cost/efficiency. Artificial mages are horribly costly compared to cyborgs, and the success rate is rather low. Or so says canon.

Also, while the cyborg project has diversity in appearance due to only using the genetic base and building from there (point in case, Ginga, Subaru and Nove), creating exact clones can only be done in limited numbers before people start asking questions. Heck, a famous or powerful mage can't even be cloned at all, the questions would just come the minute he shows his face.

I'm not sure what Zests plan was with his usage of cyborgs, but Subaru managed to keep her cyborginess hidden for a long time. Erio and Caro didn't know anything until after she went berserk.
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Old 2011-10-05, 16:13   Link #2376
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I thought it was the other way around, Keroko?

that Artificial Mages were easier and cheaper to make than Combat Cyborgs...

Plus, unlike the Cyborgs, you didn't need to mess with the body of an infant to make the process successful.
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Old 2011-10-05, 16:17   Link #2377
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Nope, Ginga was rambling on specifically about how inefficient artificial mages were shortly after they found Vivio, noting how costly it was and that it had a low succes rate. Fate, Erio and Vivio were lucky ones, in Vivio's case even a confirmed "one success in countless tries." Zest is a demonstration of what's somewhat closer to the norm.

The problem with cyborgs was the whole "body can only handle so much" thing. Which Jail solved with his genetic tinkering.
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Old 2011-10-05, 18:20   Link #2378
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
All the air mages that joined in did so because they were friends of Hayate. In the first episode Hayate even lamented on how the Air Force always stole the credit and how she wanted to create a Ground Force unit that could do the job themselves.
I think you meant the second episode (bedroom scene, right?)

Okay, looks like my impression of RF6 has been mistaken all along. It's time for some clarification.

I was under the impression that RF6 was ideally(what Hayate intended it to be) supposed to be some kind of Joint Special Operations unit, with specialists handpicked from every branch - air force, ground, navy.

But according to what you said above, RF6 was supposed to be...a Ground Force exclusive unit?

And what does "do the job themselves" supposed to mean? Had Hayate been confident enough to continue working on RF6 post-StrikerS, what was the final line-up supposed to be? When the trainers, the ones hailing from multiple branches, have all go back to their respective forces, would RF6 became Ground mage exclusive, with no air mage at all? No benefit from air cover or just plain combined arms in general?
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Old 2011-10-05, 18:55   Link #2379
al103
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
He HAD the technology! He MADE the cloning technology, minus the memory copying that Precia perfected, but Vivio DIDN'T have the memories of her donor anyway.
1. IIRC Vivio wasn't made by Scag. He "outsourced"
2. Vivio HAVE Olivie's memories, just cramping 20+ years old memory in 6 years old body would not give exactly nice results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Neither Carim nor Accous were ever confirmed to be genetically engineered to my knowledge.
But it's quite strong implication that they are - they are both from old belkan nobility lines and it was stated pretty clear how those lines loved to play with genetics.
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PPS. Proud Athrun/Cagalli/Meyrin shipper.
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Old 2011-10-05, 19:17   Link #2380
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
I think you meant the second episode (bedroom scene, right?)

Okay, looks like my impression of RF6 has been mistaken all along. It's time for some clarification.

I was under the impression that RF6 was ideally(what Hayate intended it to be) supposed to be some kind of Joint Special Operations unit, with specialists handpicked from every branch - air force, ground, navy.

But according to what you said above, RF6 was supposed to be...a Ground Force exclusive unit?

And what does "do the job themselves" supposed to mean? Had Hayate been confident enough to continue working on RF6 post-StrikerS, what was the final line-up supposed to be? When the trainers, the ones hailing from multiple branches, have all go back to their respective forces, would RF6 became Ground mage exclusive, with no air mage at all? No benefit from air cover or just plain combined arms in general?
Well, the Ground Force has to deal with a lot of problems. The other units, Air Force partially but particularly the Navy tend to keep stealing the more powerful mages, which leaves the Ground Force rather weakened. Regius complains about this too, how he's having enough trouble keeping the peace without the Air Force and Navy stealing his best troops.

Hayate's plan was not so much to create some super joint unit, but to create a new type of Ground Force unit that could stop many of the cases that happened here and now while the Navy is of saving the multiverse somewhere else. RF6 was a beta-concept, if you will. They are all Ground Force in RF6. Hence the brown uniforms for everyone.

Would they still have flight capable mages if the idea'd gone live? Maybe, if the Navy and Air Force don't steal them. Being able to fly and being in the Air Force are two different things. You can be a Ground Force mage, but still be able to fly. Case in point, Zest. However, I imagine these cases to be not as numerous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by al103 View Post
But it's quite strong implication that they are - they are both from old belkan nobility lines and it was stated pretty clear how those lines loved to play with genetics.
Touché.
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