AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-10-05, 19:39   Link #2381
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
She doesn't tell Raising Heart not to help her, just to return to gem mode. There's a difference.
Given that it's called Stand By mode, and given that physical forms DO have an impact on spell-casting ability (such as the difference between Accel Mode and Buster Mode, or Axe Form and Hakken Form), I'd say that it means RH wasn't helping at all.

The one thing that might seriously contradict this possiblity is how Yuuno attempted to use RH to seal that jewel seed monster. It's in stand by gem mode, but the writers were probably thinking, "Nah, let's not reveal the staff until Nanoha activates it." That is, rule of Cool rather than Consistency.


Quote:
So yeah, it's easy to point at inherent equipment and call it a flaw, but it goes both ways.
The advantages of Inherent Skills (compared to Inherent Equipment) are analogous to the advantages of the new Hybrid-Intelligent Devices that Vivio, Rio and Einhart are using.

Those Devices can physically merge with their users like Unison Devices, sacrificing a physical form that could be used as a weapon or external focus in order to concentrate on improving their master's physical and magical performance, and the performance of their barrier jacket.

Mages who use such Devices cannot be disarmed of their abilities without enough damage to put them out of the fight anyway, and on top of that, they can still pick up and use non-device weapons or equipment and use those, because their hands are free.


Quote:
Yeah, there's a difference, but what exactly those differences are we can only guess at.
Are you saying those hints on the wiki are mere assumptions?


Quote:
Bar Hayate who got hers from Reinforce, that is pure speculation. Neither Carim nor Accous were ever confirmed to be genetically engineered to my knowledge.
Of course not, because they inherited it. But they inherited it for the same reason that Olivie Segbercht inherited her powers and Vivio inherited it from her -- because the Belkan lords were genetically modifying themselves and biologically engineering their bloodlines in order to gain additional power.


Quote:
the cyborgs are genetically modified to be different from the very start. It's a necessary procedure to allow the body to handle the cybernetic enhancements without the piles and piles of complications that come with it (body rejecting enhancements, the upgrades being too much for the body etc. etc.)
I think I read once, on the fanfiction.net Nanoha forum, that the Numbers are all constantly in Combat Cyborg mode, whereas Ginga and Subaru cannot survive doing so.

The reason being heat; the human body isn't designed for the heat the cyborg energy source produces. Thus, Combat Mode is Dangerous Overclocking for the Type 0's, as well as something that threatened to reveal their true natures.

Jail solved this problem with the Numbers by genetically lowering the rate at which their biological systems produced heat, letting the constant running of their mechanical powersource keep their bodies at a survivable temperature.

Again, this may have no actual canonical basis, but it sounds pretty plausible.


Quote:
Heck, a famous or powerful mage can't even be cloned at all, the questions would just come the minute he shows his face.
Point well-taken.


Quote:
I'm not sure what Zests plan was with his usage of cyborgs
You mean Regius Gaiz.


Quote:
but Subaru managed to keep her cyborginess hidden for a long time. Erio and Caro didn't know anything until after she went berserk.
The Numbers were also probably more Proof of Concept than meant for public release, too.

Still, the place you'd most want to station combat cyborgs would be the assignments that also have the highest chance of injury. And injury is exactly how Subaru was outted as a cyborg, since it exposed her mechanical innards.

Alternatively, the TSAB brains and Regius already had a plan in place to change public opinion regarding cybernetic technology.

Perhaps have Jail "arrested" or one of his labs "seized", and then the TSAB scientists who go over the data realize that, whatever crimes Jail committed to arrive at this point, they can confirm that the technology is now safe and humane.

(Well, as humane as "create babies specifically intended to be soldiers or hazard-workers" can be. That would require a LOOOOOOT more propaganda.)

(Or near-extinction at the hands of the Covenant; but I don't think Orbital Naval Intelligence ever fully revealed the truth of the SPARTAN II soldiers' origins as abducted children.)


Quote:
Ginga was rambling on specifically about how inefficient artificial mages were shortly after they found Vivio, noting how costly it was and that it had a low succes rate. Fate, Erio and Vivio were lucky ones, in Vivio's case even a confirmed "one success in countless tries." Zest is a demonstration of what's somewhat closer to the norm.
Fate and Erio might be luckier than it seems. What if they're just the first clones of their respective donors that SURVIVED?

And "one success in countless tries" sounds like a looooot of aborted Vivio corpses.

Cheery thought, that. And probably WHY the cloning technology is illegal.

Maybe the process of making a single Artificial Mage is cheaper than a Cyborg Cyborg, but the real source of the expensive / cost ineffectiveness is that you likely have to make MULTIPLE Artificial Mages before you get even one success, whereas the Combat Cyborg creation process is far more reliable.

So, CC production isn't necessarily cheaper -- it's just that you get more of your money's worth out of it.


But here's a thought -- even just the "imperfect" cloning techniques used for Combat Cyborgs seems like it can reliably produce viable mages. Just look at Ginga, Subaru and Nove, all imprecise clones of the same AA class combat mage.

Precise cloning is terribly expensive, but imprecise cloning PLUS combat cyborg engineering is considered more cost efficient.

So, imprecise cloning WITHOUT cyborg genetic/mechanical engineering would be more cost efficient AND cheaper.

Straight clones of powerful and famous mages would draw too much attention, but mixing the genetic codes of various high-ranked mages together would produce relatively unique individuals who are bound by the law of averages to be have strong talent.

This either eliminates or greatly reduces all of the problems precise cloning of Aces would run into, and entirely avoids any of the problems faced with trying to legally introduce Cyborgs into the TSAB.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 19:43   Link #2382
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Well, the Ground Force has to deal with a lot of problems. The other units, Air Force partially but particularly the Navy tend to keep stealing the more powerful mages, which leaves the Ground Force rather weakened. Regius complains about this too, how he's having enough trouble keeping the peace without the Air Force and Navy stealing his best troops.

Hayate's plan was not so much to create some super joint unit, but to create a new type of Ground Force unit that could stop many of the cases that happened here and now while the Navy is of saving the multiverse somewhere else. RF6 was a beta-concept, if you will. They are all Ground Force in RF6. Hence the brown uniforms for everyone.

Would they still have flight capable mages if the idea'd gone live? Maybe, if the Navy and Air Force don't steal them. Being able to fly and being in the Air Force are two different things. You can be a Ground Force mage, but still be able to fly. Case in point, Zest. However, I imagine these cases to be not as numerous..
What confounds me is this question: What exactly was Hayate doing DIFFERENTLY from the Gaiz or the regular ground forces?

If she was trying to create a model the rest of the Ground Forces could imitate, I'd say she did a horrible job. The Ground Forces do NOT have the ability to call in Aces from the Air and Navy to work for them; they have the exact opposite problem.


Besides, I thought Hayate formed Riot Force 6 specifically to bring together her firends and create a dream team to deal with Scaglietti without having to answer to anyone but Chrono.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 19:47   Link #2383
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
What confounds me is this question: What exactly was Hayate doing DIFFERENTLY from the Gaiz or the regular ground forces?
What Hayate was doing was giving pre-existing mages and knights the ability to become stronger and better adapted to unusual incidents and the like without having to resort to illegal and morally toxic methods. She didn't have to rely on cloning and weaponized cybernetic enhancements to make a specialized and fully capable military unit.
__________________
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 19:50   Link #2384
Tiresias
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
She didn't have to rely on cloning and weaponized cybernetic enhancements to make a specialized and fully capable military unit.
But she did rely on a clone (two, actually) and a cyborg . If that's the point she's trying to make then adding Erio, Fate and Subaru to the unit would be contradictory.
__________________
Tiresias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 19:52   Link #2385
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
But she did rely on a clone (two, actually) and a cyborg
And did she specifically create those three just so she can turn them into weapons? No. And let's not forget that until Ginga was captured, Subaru wasn't relying specifically on her cyborg capabilities and, as was pointed out earlier, was keeping the fact she was a cyborg secret from everyone else.

Fate and Erio chose to help Hayate and RF6 with its goal, and they could've refused or transferred out. They weren't built specifically for it.
__________________
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 20:03   Link #2386
Tiresias
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Fate and Erio chose to help Hayate and RF6 with its goal, and they could've refused or transferred out. They weren't built specifically for it.
But they were handpicked for it.

And think about your statement: "She didn't have to rely on cloning and weaponized cybernetic enhancements to make a specialized and fully capable military unit. " But she did rely on them; she may not initiate the cloning or cybernetic augmentations, but three of her main fighters were the results of those.

If "we can be competent without artificial mages or cyborgs" was the message she was trying to convey then shouldn't she, y'know, make a unit that succeed without them? Otherwise people won't be convinced.

I don't think the matter of cloning or cyborgs were ever the issue in forming RF6. The unit was made, according to the second episode as Keroko pointed out, as a ground special task unit. What Hayate wanted was a ground unit that can actually do something - augmentations and cloning were never mentioned in her statement.
__________________
Tiresias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 20:05   Link #2387
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Ugh. The point I'm trying to make is that Hayate wasn't breaking the law or utterly destroying her morals by specifically creating human weapons--all she was doing was friggin' training people.

Must we always nitpick apart every little detail to ruin the point?
__________________
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 20:11   Link #2388
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
What Hayate was doing was giving pre-existing mages and knights the ability to become stronger and better adapted to unusual incidents and the like without having to resort to illegal and morally toxic methods. She didn't have to rely on cloning and weaponized cybernetic enhancements to make a specialized and fully capable military unit.
By "unusual incidents", I assume you're refering to AMF-conditions, Gadget Drones, Combat Cyborgs, and Lost Logia all mixed together.

In which case, I refer back to my theory that Riot Force 6 was primarily intended just to handle Jail.

Not to help the Ground Force, but to do their job for them since it was obvious, after the death of Zest's team and the attack on the airport, that they and Regius Gaiz were incompetent.

And once Jail was dealt with, despite being primarily responsible for successfully closing the case, Riot Force 6 was disbanded. Because it had served its purpose of arresting Jail and thwarting his plans.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 20:18   Link #2389
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Zest's team is just that, one team--calling the entire ground forces incompetent based off one botched mission that was screwed from the get-go is a little unfair.

As for RF6, they disbanded after a year had passed--the JS Incident was closed nearly half a year before they actually disbanded. RF6 didn't end the moment Jail was brought to justice, though you are correct in saying that the JS incident was part of the reason why RF6 was formed, because of Carim's prophecy.

But that's all muddying the point--you asked what Hayate was doing differently from Regius, and that's what I answered.
__________________
Rising Dragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 20:31   Link #2390
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Zest's team is just that, one team--calling the entire ground forces incompetent based off one botched mission that was screwed from the get-go is a little unfair.
It's not that Zest's team got killed, it's WHY they got killed.

They saw a problem and wanted to solve it, but their superiors told them to ignore it. So they went off and tackled it anyway. Turned out it was real problem.

Caught without proper support, valuable, irreplaceable human lives AND human resources were lost, trying to solve a problem against orders, because their superiors were idiots or corrupt AND were unable to maintain control of their own soldiers.

And then later, the airport incident. And all of the other relics turning up on Midchilda's black market.

The Ground Force wasn't handling its job, either because it (or its leadership) was incompetent or deliberately not trying.

So Hayate created a unit to do the job the Ground Forces should have been doing.


Quote:
As for RF6, they disbanded after a year had passed--the JS Incident was closed nearly half a year before they actually disbanded.
Waiting for any possible fall-out or back-up plans Jail might have left in store, I imagine. Certainly, it's a popular enough fanfic idea, and it probably occured to Hayate, Fate and Chrono.


Quote:
But that's all muddying the point--you asked what Hayate was doing differently from Regius, and that's what I answered.
The question only mattered if what Hayate was trying to do was "set a better example for the Ground Forces to follow".

She didn't do that, because that wasn't her intention, so it's irrelevant.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-05, 22:25   Link #2391
Nagumo
Random Translator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Brunswick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
I'll PM you the raws Nagumo.
Currently translating the Wing Road entry

http://translationcd.wikispaces.com/...hawiki+entries

Still a work in progress
__________________
I do not like Kansai-ben, but I do like Hayate-chan!
Also, Canadian here, not actually Japanese.
Nagumo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-06, 00:19   Link #2392
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Reposting stuff from Fanfiction thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
Lol, mind explaining the hatred for Verossa? Me don't get it that much.
As a person, I don't hate him. I just don't particularly like his type.

As a character, I resent him for being a waste of time. He doesn't do ANYTHING that Chrono or Yuuno couldn't have done.

Or, heck, Fate's an investigator and isn't spending most of her time training the Fowards like Nanoha and Vita. So why isn't SHE investigating Scaglietti like she was doing before she joined, rather than leaving it to Verossa? (In fact, what IS she doing at all?)

Since Verossa doesn't get enough time to really develop his character, all he's doing is cluttering up an already bloated cast while denying screentime to characters we already know and love.


Also, back before I really cottoned on to the "Ancient Belkan style Knights were outdated towards the end of the Empire, and genetic modification was all the rage", his "inherited magic" irritated me. It made absolutely no sense within the Ancient Belkan Style.

Plus, shouldn't Uno have been less surprised by it? The ability can't be all that secret, and she should have known which high-profile names were investigating them, his especially among them because of his known ties with Hayate.



I'm more forgiving of Vice, who helps to develop Teana's character, develops his own character while he's at it, and even has his own little story arc where he deals with his sniping accident with his sister.

Still, even Vice isn't really necessary, since it makes no sense to use helicopters and ground mages instead of teleportation and flying mages to deal with a high-class threat like Scaglietti, who could be anywhere and strike at anywhere. They took a step BACKWARDS from the measures they used against the Wolkenritter in the last season, for no clear reason.

If Yuuno had been allowed by the writers to join the unit, he could have handled the teleportation, and he might have been the one that Teana ended up talking to. Perhaps because Yuuno also sometimes irrationally feels like he's not contributing enough?

Rather than Vice defending the base when it was attacked, along with Vivio and her nanny, Yuuno could have done that with shields, binds and chains.

Rather than developing Vice, a character we'd never seen before and didn't initially care about, they could have further explored a known and loved character who didn't have enough exploration even BEFORE the ten year time-skip!

And heck, Yuuno has enough in common with Caro that he might have helped to develop HER character, which honestly could have used it. Erio's too; Erio might have openned up to Yuuno as one of the few male role models around.


I'm omitting Chrono here, because while he might find the time to personally storm Scaglietti's base to help Fate by taking out Uno, he wouldn't have the time to hang around RF6's headquarters, talking with the cadets. He's got a wife and kids to spend time with when he's off-work.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-06, 02:48   Link #2393
Kikaifan
Blazing General
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CA
Age: 28
THEORY: StrikerS was some kind of seiyuu jobs program.
__________________
Kikaifan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-06, 04:46   Link #2394
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Given that it's called Stand By mode, and given that physical forms DO have an impact on spell-casting ability (such as the difference between Accel Mode and Buster Mode, or Axe Form and Hakken Form), I'd say that it means RH wasn't helping at all.

The one thing that might seriously contradict this possiblity is how Yuuno attempted to use RH to seal that jewel seed monster. It's in stand by gem mode, but the writers were probably thinking, "Nah, let's not reveal the staff until Nanoha activates it." That is, rule of Cool rather than Consistency.
Given that Nanoha can't even fly without Raising Heart (as shown during Jails attacks, where Nanoha was running and climbing around instead of flying) I'm pretty sure Raising Heart was still helping her.

We know gem devices don't need to transform to do stuff. Like you said, Yuuno could do stuff with Raising Heart, and Kriss and Teo are gem type devices as well, only encased in a fluffy exterior and they don't need to transform. Ditto for Rio's device, no active modes yet it functions just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
The advantages of Inherent Skills (compared to Inherent Equipment) are analogous to the advantages of the new Hybrid-Intelligent Devices that Vivio, Rio and Einhart are using.

Those Devices can physically merge with their users like Unison Devices, sacrificing a physical form that could be used as a weapon or external focus in order to concentrate on improving their master's physical and magical performance, and the performance of their barrier jacket.

Mages who use such Devices cannot be disarmed of their abilities without enough damage to put them out of the fight anyway, and on top of that, they can still pick up and use non-device weapons or equipment and use those, because their hands are free.
Agreed. A weapon you can't disarm is a powerful tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Are you saying those hints on the wiki are mere assumptions?
If they aren't, I'd like to know the source. Because the anime never really gave any clear answers to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I think I read once, on the fanfiction.net Nanoha forum, that the Numbers are all constantly in Combat Cyborg mode, whereas Ginga and Subaru cannot survive doing so.

The reason being heat; the human body isn't designed for the heat the cyborg energy source produces. Thus, Combat Mode is Dangerous Overclocking for the Type 0's, as well as something that threatened to reveal their true natures.

Jail solved this problem with the Numbers by genetically lowering the rate at which their biological systems produced heat, letting the constant running of their mechanical powersource keep their bodies at a survivable temperature.

Again, this may have no actual canonical basis, but it sounds pretty plausible.
's more personal preference I'd say. Ginga and Subaru were raised as normal humans, so they like to be as human as they can most of the time.

But that's just my theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
You mean Regius Gaiz.
Blar, yes Regius.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But here's a thought -- even just the "imperfect" cloning techniques used for Combat Cyborgs seems like it can reliably produce viable mages. Just look at Ginga, Subaru and Nove, all imprecise clones of the same AA class combat mage.

Precise cloning is terribly expensive, but imprecise cloning PLUS combat cyborg engineering is considered more cost efficient.

So, imprecise cloning WITHOUT cyborg genetic/mechanical engineering would be more cost efficient AND cheaper.

Straight clones of powerful and famous mages would draw too much attention, but mixing the genetic codes of various high-ranked mages together would produce relatively unique individuals who are bound by the law of averages to be have strong talent.

This either eliminates or greatly reduces all of the problems precise cloning of Aces would run into, and entirely avoids any of the problems faced with trying to legally introduce Cyborgs into the TSAB.
Well, you're still stuck with the moral cesspit of breeding soldiers. The difference between that and making them cyborgs is very small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
What confounds me is this question: What exactly was Hayate doing DIFFERENTLY from the Gaiz or the regular ground forces?
I have not the slightest clue whatsoever. It's one of the many things StrikerS never made clear.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-06, 04:58   Link #2395
Arkeus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Given that Nanoha can't even fly without Raising Heart (as shown during Jails attacks, where Nanoha was running and climbing around instead of flying) I'm pretty sure Raising Heart was still helping her.
Nitpick here- The Whole building was under AMF by that time, so it's more like she couldn't fly in AMF condition without RH.

Quote:
We know gem devices don't need to transform to do stuff. Like you said, Yuuno could do stuff with Raising Heart, and Kriss and Teo are gem type devices as well, only encased in a fluffy exterior and they don't need to transform. Ditto for Rio's device, no active modes yet it functions just fine.
Yet Kriss and Teo are much newer models, and actually bigger than RH's active form (the active form is mainly the gem, the rest is other stuff).

Cant remember Rio's device.
Arkeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-06, 05:37   Link #2396
Sheba
Have a Yasen Problem
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Naval Base in the rectum of Pacific Ocean
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
THEORY: StrikerS was some kind of seiyuu jobs program.
No wonder where did the budget go.
Sheba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-06, 05:50   Link #2397
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Nitpick here- The Whole building was under AMF by that time, so it's more like she couldn't fly in AMF condition without RH.
*shakes head* AMF radius is rather small. Even the Type III's, who are the most powerful when it comes to AMF, can't extend their field beyond several meters. It's certainly not enough to cover the entire building, especially with most drones still being outside at the time. The only time we've seen a massive AMF was in the Cradle, and remember how surprised the cast was at that? And that was an entire warship specially designed to have AMF throughout the ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Yet Kriss and Teo are much newer models, and actually bigger than RH's active form (the active form is mainly the gem, the rest is other stuff).

Cant remember Rio's device.
Yet it aligns with Yuuno's first use of Raising Heart. Once is an exception, twice could be coincidence. Four times? Now that's a pattern.
__________________

Last edited by Keroko; 2011-10-06 at 06:09.
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-06, 08:31   Link #2398
Arkeus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*shakes head* AMF radius is rather small. Even the Type III's, who are the most powerful when it comes to AMF, can't extend their field beyond several meters. It's certainly not enough to cover the entire building, especially with most drones still being outside at the time. The only time we've seen a massive AMF was in the Cradle, and remember how surprised the cast was at that? And that was an entire warship specially designed to have AMF throughout the ship.
IT doesn't change the fact that we saw different characters mentionning AMF even far inside the HQ.



Quote:
Yet it aligns with Yuuno's first use of Raising Heart. Once is an exception, twice could be coincidence. Four times? Now that's a pattern.
Yuuno couldn't use RH though. He had to use long incantations to make basic effects he could almost already do better without.

Kriss and teo, again, are probably as big as weapon form RH- we don't see their gems.
Arkeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-06, 08:56   Link #2399
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
IT doesn't change the fact that we saw different characters mentionning AMF even far inside the HQ.
They did? I stand corrected then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Yuuno couldn't use RH though. He had to use long incantations to make basic effects he could almost already do better without.

Kriss and teo, again, are probably as big as weapon form RH- we don't see their gems.
You mean the core gem in the weapon form of raising heart? That's too big to fit into them.

We have at least three other examples of devices that were capable of performing without going into weapon mode. With that number, raising heart isn't an exception anymore.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-10-06, 08:58   Link #2400
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Remember that Yuuno can also fly totally unassisted.

Probably Nanoha is too accustomed to fly using Raising Heart as it require keeping various things in check around her(stability, direction, speed, etc...) whole shooting and using "floater" are much more easier spells to cast and thus she's able to do it without RH's help, we also already seen her using Round Shield and Divine Shooter unassisted way back in A's.
__________________
May 29 2010-2014

...4 yeargo, the day after never would be the same

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.