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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana III (Final) - Episode 1 Rating
Perfect 10 37 32.46%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 14.04%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 21.05%
7 out of 10 : Good 19 16.67%
6 out of 10 : Average 15 13.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.75%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.88%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-10-08, 02:00   Link #61
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
That said, I'm seeing that so far... a number of the reviews are negative, and for completely stupid reasons.
It's not stupid for people to expect the start of a new season to flow smoothly from the end of the previous season.

Mystery and intrigue is great, but when you have a very well-developed male lead, and he suddenly starts working with the established antagonist group when there's been no foreshadowing of such a turn before, viewers are naturally going to want to get at least some inkling as to why he is doing this.

Do we need to have everything answered up-front? Of course not. But dropping a bombshell characterization change on viewers in the very first episode of a new season without any hints as to "why?" is pretty jarring stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MegamiMiko View Post

To be fair, there were some hints. Like Hooves said, we have what Yuji said to Shana in the beginning as well as his talks with the voice inside the Reiji Maigo. I'm sure more will be explained as things progress, but they did give us a place to start.
Those "hints" are extremely vague statements that tell us nothing in and of themselves. They're not legitimate hints, in my view. They're not much of a place to start at all.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:05   Link #62
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It's not stupid for people to expect the start of a new season to flow smoothly from the end of the previous season.

Mystery and intrigue is great, but when you have a very well-developed male lead, and he suddenly starts working with the established antagonist group when there's been no foreshadowing of such a turn before, viewers are naturally going to want to get at least some inkling as to why.

Do we need to have everything answered up-front? Of course not. But dropping a bombshell characterization change on viewers in the very first episode of a new season without any hints as to "why?" is pretty jarring stuff.
That's not a stupid reason, no--but let's be fair here, JC probably doesn't always know if they'll be able to continue something, hence anime original endings, and I can't fault them for that. It's unfair to have huge foreshadowings at the very end of an episode, and never follow through.

What's upsetting me here is the people who demand an explanation on the new change NOW NOW NOW!!! and are acting like petulant children when they don't get their way. Saying that a season will fail because they didn't explain a new twist the moment it appeared is completely unfair, and a VERY stupid reason.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:08   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
What's upsetting me here is the people who demand an explanation on the new change NOW NOW NOW!!! and are acting like petulant children when they don't get their way. Saying that a season will fail because they didn't explain a new twist the moment it appeared is completely unfair, and a VERY stupid reason.
Please, cut down on the theatrics.

Not a single person has voted 4 or below on this thread. Not one person has decried this entire season to be crap. In fact, I'm not even sure who you're referring to, but it seems awfully condescending.

Let's not fight demons that don't exist.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:12   Link #64
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Mostly it was Reckoner and weaponX's posts that set me off, but mostly weaponX--just about every review I see from Reckoner is negative but he generally has good reasons. But I'll admit, I can see signs appearing and after putting up with that kind of crap across several series, my patience is already worn thin on it.

I also haven't even looked at the polls. Those rarely matter to me.

I'll try to improve but if the signs I see come to bear, well, told ya so's and such.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:18   Link #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Mostly it was Reckoner and weaponX's posts that set me off, but mostly weaponX--just about every review I see from Reckoner is negative but he generally has good reasons. But I'll admit, I can see signs appearing and after putting up with that kind of crap across several series, my patience is already worn thin on it.

I also haven't even looked at the polls. Those rarely matter to me.

I'll try to improve but if the signs I see come to bear, well, told ya so's and such.
You really have to reread their posts. Because I see none of what you said there. They may have disliked this episode, but it has no bearing on the rest of the series. My favorite series have plenty of episodes I despise. It means nothing, really. People can grow to like a series you know.

Of course I can't speak for them, lol... but yea.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:20   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
That said, I'm seeing that so far... a number of the reviews are negative, and for completely stupid reasons. So you don't know what's going on right away, and thus, you call the episode and, in some people's cases, the season an utter disappointment.
I dunno man. Sometimes you expect a plot to be consistent. Sometimes you'd expect an adaption to well, adapt a work in the best possible way. Sometimes you appreciate a story to actually do things like proper foreshadowing and not have completely random developments. Sometimes you'd like if your cast wasn't disgraced so you could take them more seriously.

But hey, then you'd have a good story and that would certainly be a problem eh?

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Whatever happened to waiting to find out what's going on? Whatever happened to the good old days where people gave something a chance? A lot of you I'm going to end up as writing off as fans of the new trend of bashing everything the moment they get the chance.
No no no. You're arguing with no one here because no one ever stated as such. Beating up a straw man isn't going to do you any good here.

But hey, I'm actually a fan of Shana and want to see this series actually done well. Is that too much to expect?

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Remember: A story that spoon feeds you every detail as soon as possible is not a good story. It doesn't give you the chance to witness some intrigue or mystery--give it a chance to build up some steam before you write the whole thing off as a failure. If you have to be spoon-fed every little detail just so you won't feel disappointed, then I implore you to go elsewhere and find far more simpler shows to watch.
I'm not asking them to spoon feed me the plot. I'm asking for the story to actually flow. When revelations come by, it actually makes sense because there was the necessary build up and available information to put it altogether and go "ah hah!."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
As it stands, it looks like I'm going to be scarce with my postings for this series--I'm not disappointed with Shana. But right now, Shana's fans are shaping up to leave something desired. By all means, prove me wrong for once.
Yes, please do us a favor and take your attitude somewhere else. I wasn't happy with the episode. Deal with it. I never insulted any of you guys who liked it. I never said this series is doomed. I just felt the transition was really bad. It's more of a spill over effect from that god awful S2.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:23   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Mostly it was Reckoner and weaponX's posts that set me off, but mostly weaponX--just about every review I see from Reckoner is negative but he generally has good reasons. But I'll admit, I can see signs appearing and after putting up with that kind of crap across several series, my patience is already worn thin on it.
My general point is that if you look at the end of season 2, and then watch this, there are too many things that, quite frankly, make no sense.

There was a lot of aspects of season 2 that was bad. But what eventually saved it for me was copious amounts of epicness and ass kicking on the part of Wilhelmina. In addition, this isn't as bad as season 2's opener, which completely negated and disregarded season 1's ending.

I'm not saying that the series will be trash. Like I said, Wilhelmina saved season 2. But this episode in of itself was very confusing and disorienting to say the least. A little more explanation or at least buildup would have been nice.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:25   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Mostly it was Reckoner and weaponX's posts that set me off, but mostly weaponX--just about every review I see from Reckoner is negative but he generally has good reasons. But I'll admit, I can see signs appearing and after putting up with that kind of crap across several series, my patience is already worn thin on it.

I also haven't even looked at the polls. Those rarely matter to me.

I'll try to improve but if the signs I see come to bear, well, told ya so's and such.
For what it's worth, Rising Dragon, I'm still pumped for this anime as it's doing a lot of things right, and I love Shana.

But I don't think you can really fault people for not liking Yuji's characterization change. Keep in mind that some people simply dislike because they liked Yuji as he was at the end of Shana Season 2, of course.


But hopefully the next episode or two will give us some telling hints there, and much of this current debate will become moot.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:29   Link #69
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Quote:
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I'm not saying that the series will be trash. Like I said, Wilhelmina saved season 2. But this episode in of itself was very confusing and disorienting to say the least. A little more explanation or at least buildup would have been nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponX View Post
this season of Shana is shaping up to be disappointing, and its only been one episode.
Hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
But I don't think you can really fault people for not liking Yuji's characterization change. Keep in mind that some people simply dislike because they liked Yuji as he was at the end of Shana Season 2, of course.
Some people never even liked Yuji in many cases

Quote:
But hopefully the next episode or two will give us some telling hints there, and much of this current debate will become moot.
At the current situation were in. It's impossible for us to explain ourselves without spoiling all this sudden change. The best I can do up to this point is just to say, wait for the next few episodes and all your questions will be answered with even more epicness awaiting.

Edit: But the transition has been very clean in which I don't see anything wrong with it. It's just the fact that some things that "hinted" this advancement beforehand were left out of season 2 because the novels were on the short list. Now that the author of the LN is personally watching over this himself. A faithful adaptation will hopefully be placed, but the transition from an anime original to light novel will be very hard to absorb without pre-hints.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:32   Link #70
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Hmmm
Trash does not equal Disappointing.

Dictionary.com is your friend.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:34   Link #71
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I don't know WTF is happening with Yuji, but I thought that the episode was rather good and I was surprised at how involved I was - it brought back a lot of memories for me. And a little WTF is normally part of Shana, anyway.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:35   Link #72
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They sound very familiar though

Either way, my Edit: is the only thing I can do to explain this sudden change of events for now.
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Last edited by Hooves; 2011-10-08 at 02:46.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:41   Link #73
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Those "hints" are extremely vague statements that tell us nothing in and of themselves. They're not legitimate hints, in my view. They're not much of a place to start at all.
Well they do serve to tell us that this didn't come out of nowhere and that Yuji does have reasons behind his actions. It's not much, but it at least gives the impression that an explanation is coming.
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Old 2011-10-08, 02:54   Link #74
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Nobody still hasn't answered my question on "Is it me, or does Alastor sound different?". Maybe I'm just hearing a different voice??
I felt quite a few people sounded different, but it's been awhile.......
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Old 2011-10-08, 03:01   Link #75
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Why does Alastor sound like he has a new voice actor?
Actually id like to know this too, is it still the same voice actor?
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Old 2011-10-08, 04:30   Link #76
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Actually id like to know this too, is it still the same voice actor?
Well this one is a no-brainer, just check ANN...

...And what do you know... It's exactly the same guy


Ebara Masashi
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Old 2011-10-08, 04:31   Link #77
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It was pretty unexpected to start the new season out like this. Of course at least can say they aren't going to waste our time like the first half of season 2 felt like (maybe more a quarter, but whatever). This time we are getting right into things and getting into a pretty crazy shift.

Not sure at all what's going on with Yuji and how he suddenly got into this position. But suppose you can say he's finally going to be a force in a fight. Just not sure what he's planning on doing. Talking about changing Shana's fate, but hard to see what exactly about her fate requires such extremes to change. Obviously an eternal war isn't very cheerful, unless you can just seal the Earth off from invasions entirely it's going to keep going like that.

Still it's certainly a serious change in things. We've got Satou heading out to Outlaw, Carmel digging through reports, Shana putting some serious training in, and the emotional situation surrounding Yuji's disappearance. Tough to watch his mom when she doesn't appear to remember anything (I say appear since that woman seems amazing enough to overcome that kind of thing ).

Anyways will say welcome back Shana and damn things are going to get crazy.
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Old 2011-10-08, 04:51   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
If I took this episode in a vacuum I'd actually rate it pretty good. However, since when did we ever consider things like that?
I rate episodes in isolation
For me, any assessment of the consistence and overall development of the story falls under the "series rating".

However, I understand that these do affect some people's enjoyment as they watch an episode.

Quote:
Basically, it would have been nice to get at least some inkling for what's causing Yuji's apparent and drastic change of heart.
It was jarring for me too. Hopefully, they revisit what happened soon.

Quote:
This in turn means that you shouldn't go back to 100% faithful source material adaptation right away, imo.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to be too faithful. Judging by the number of books remaining, there seems to be a ton of content to cover, and I can't see it turning out well without significant reworking.

I still think that the story planners had the right idea when they started adapting Shana. Instead of compressing exposition heavy books into a less than suitable format (often with cuts, unnatural pacing for TV, and resources that are too limited to do each arc justice), you craft your story around the runnng time, budget, and season structure.

The problem is that to make this work, you probably need to be aware of the end point (both character and plot developments) from the start. Had the novels been completed first and then adapted (or at the very least, the writers had a detailed summary of the entire series when planning each season individually), things might've been a lot less messy.
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Old 2011-10-08, 05:30   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Let me try to convey, in as clear a manner as possible, why some of us find the transition from the end of Season 2 to the start of Season 3 jarring...


End of Shana Season 2

Sakai Yuji (looks lovingly at Shana): I just kicked Bal Masque's collective asses with the help of my hot girlfriend in the ultimate romantic coming together. What a rocking Christmas Eve! Time to celebrate!


Start of Shana Season 3 (i.e. right after the end of Shana 2, in-anime canon)

Sakai Yuji: Time for me to go Aizen-style! I'm going to enjoy leading Bal Masque from my badass throne! Forget Shana, I'm enjoying this power trip. Boo Yah!


Basically, it would have been nice to get at least some inkling for what's causing Yuji's apparent and drastic change of heart.
As an anime only viewer it seems Yuji is doing whatever he is doing to change Shana's fate. The intro scene states as much and his questions about what can he do about Flame Hazes etc. So I get why he's doing it, what I don't get is how he's suddenly Bal Masque's leader. As long as it's actually explained in a timely manner I don't really mind, I don't have to know that instant (especially when it ended the episode on it!) why he did something even though it was jarring. If it's not explained in the next few episodes (especially considering how S2 ended...) than that's pretty poor...
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Old 2011-10-08, 07:45   Link #80
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It was great to see all the characters again, but the disconnect between the end of S2 and the beginning of S3 hints at the possibility of a train wreck, though I doubt that by the end of it I'll be disappointed. I hope.
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