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Old 2004-11-24, 23:17   Link #121
jo_jo14_6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayoubi
There is something really wrong with NA VA's for Japanese animes. Somehow they find a way to totally kill off all emotions in the script. Every time i watch DBZ, i crinch when i hear vegeta sounding like hulk hogan.

I know that the translated text should match the mouth animations and thus would compromise the full vocabulary in our english language, ... it seems something went totally wrong in the process and left us with cheesy anime that lost the original meaning. (yu-gi-oh, digimon, pokemon, hamtaro, gundam seed included). when i watch the japanese version of gundam seed i loved it! but what a turn off it was after dubbing...

So for FMA, which is one of my favorite animes also, i hope they either get it right, or please leave it alone
lol...i no wat u mean when u say they kill off all the emotions in the script. But for FMA...i guess u could say they sorta killed it...cuz when u watch the english version...u get a really different feeling from the kind of feeling u'd get watchin the jap version.
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Old 2004-11-24, 23:18   Link #122
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forgot to add this...

personally...in my opinion...i think the jap version is better
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Old 2004-11-25, 00:25   Link #123
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There's something called the edit button.
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Old 2004-11-25, 20:40   Link #124
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oh! whoops...lol...i just started a few days ago...my bad..lol
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Old 2004-11-25, 23:05   Link #125
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I think most people in this thread doesn't understand the fact that dubbing in general is a shame and a horrendous travesty to do to any medium, whether movie, anime, or cartoon.
Mediums of entertainment comes in three parts: the audio track, the video, and the musical score. By dubbing, Funi has already killed off one third of the show, and by editing the video, there goes another one third. All that's left is screwing over the OP and ED, and there goes the whole anime.

When will America realize that foreign language films/entertainment mediums should be left in their own language? Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was one of the few which shown in movie theaters SUBBED and NON-EDITED and in native mandarin tongue. In Japan, when they show American movies, there's different show times for a subbed version and for a dubbed version. Why must America dub everything that comes into their country?

And in other countries, anime is subbed, like on Animax in Singapore and Taiwan. Why can't the U.S. embrace subtitles as a way to show an anime? Or is it that the literacy rate in the U.S. doesn't even compare to forth graders...shame on that. Well with crap like Ed, Edd, and Eddy, or a sponge in square underpants on children's show lately, I wouldn't be surprised.

And the U.S. needs to get out of this shell that ANIME is actually a MEDIUM of entertainment, not a GENRE. Too many movie critics have put anime under a genre, thus making the all other genres useless when it comes to critique of anime. "O_o it's anime, so i'll it a cartoon, not a show with drama, romance, slice of life, comedy, etc." Shameless bastards.

And it's shown on prime time in Japan damnit! Why show it at midnight here? Fools CN and FUNI another great show lost to stupid American "regulations"

And now 4kids has done it again with Ojamajo Doremi
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Old 2004-11-26, 00:18   Link #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maceart
I think most people in this thread doesn't understand the fact that dubbing in general is a shame and a horrendous travesty to do to any medium, whether movie, anime, or cartoon.
You act like they painted over the Mona Lisa. While subbing has its place, I think would be hard to sell a product with sub only or air the show on TV. Basic reason is that most like to watch and listen, not watch and read. Its helps for people to multi task.

Quote:
Mediums of entertainment comes in three parts: the audio track, the video, and the musical score. By dubbing, Funi has already killed off one third of the show, and by editing the video, there goes another one third. All that's left is screwing over the OP and ED, and there goes the whole anime.
Whether or not you like dubs is matter of personal opinion, but I would think killed would be coming down on a bit too hard on dubbing companies. As for editing video, FMA has run unedited, if I recall correctly. For other shows that have edits, editing has to be done to sell a product. As for the OP and ED, if you've noticed, the U.S programs run 22 minutes while in Japan programs run 24 minutes. The fact the second OP is even playing is something in its self.

Quote:
When will America realize that foreign language films/entertainment mediums should be left in their own language? Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was one of the few which shown in movie theaters SUBBED and NON-EDITED and in native mandarin tongue. In Japan, when they show American movies, there's different show times for a subbed version and for a dubbed version. Why must America dub everything that comes into their country?
Besides the point that Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is a live action film and dubbing live action tends to be a bit different than dubbing an anime. Matching lip flaps is easier in an animated form than a live action one.

Quote:
And in other countries, anime is subbed, like on Animax in Singapore and Taiwan. Why can't the U.S. embrace subtitles as a way to show an anime? Or is it that the literacy rate in the U.S. doesn't even compare to forth graders...shame on that. Well with crap like Ed, Edd, and Eddy, or a sponge in square underpants on children's show lately, I wouldn't be surprised.
Thatís just how different countries doing things differently. Not something ever going to change. Doing something new is a risk, and in todayís world, betting wrong would mean losses.

Quote:
And the U.S. needs to get out of this shell that ANIME is actually a MEDIUM of entertainment, not a GENRE. Too many movie critics have put anime under a genre, thus making the all other genres useless when it comes to critique of anime. "O_o it's anime, so i'll it a cartoon, not a show with drama, romance, slice of life, comedy, etc." Shameless bastards.
Well I agree with you there, anime, or just animation in general is a medium. It does get dumped as just a cartoon, but this stems from the differences in how things a looked at in the U.S. Is it unfair, yes, and that also spreads its way into other forms of entertainment.

Quote:
And it's shown on prime time in Japan damnit! Why show it at midnight here? Fools CN and FUNI another great show lost to stupid American "regulations"

And now 4kids has done it again with Ojamajo Doremi
If you want to put labels on things Japan would be more liberal with its media while the US is more conservative. I will agree with you as an American I would like that to be changed, but a tit during a football game caused so much outcry that now is not the time to be pushing the limits. As a person whats things like that to change, there are a lot bigger battles to win than just being able to show anime uncut at similar times.

As for CN and Funi being "fools" they are trying to promote a product and get more people interested, that can help change how things are viewed in the U.S.
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Old 2004-11-26, 22:43   Link #127
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I mostly agree with zarkand. It's tru that some shows are better to stay in jap with english subtitles but there are other shows that are actually better in english. I no that half the time when they dubb the anime in english, they do kill it because most of the actors' voices don't have as much expression as the actors' voice in jap. In english, a few of the voices sound so monotoned and i kno that it can be better.

Since you...and by you i mean Maceart, i can clearly see that you prefer anime that's in jap and u wanna keep it that way. Why do you think that on the dvds that are sold in stores, they also provide the original japanese audio?
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Old 2004-11-27, 06:53   Link #128
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the difference is the same as this :

the italian language is natural a "sining" language, just as the japanese language makes expressing emotions "better" then the english does, but that doesn't make this dub bad .

also the fact that anime IS dubbed is that dubbed the "wall" to watch will be lower for most of the americans (ever seen pokemon in dutch ? :X :X )
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Old 2004-11-27, 12:36   Link #129
Maceart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HanG-BuiK-ZwijN
the difference is the same as this :

the italian language is natural a "sining" language, just as the japanese language makes expressing emotions "better" then the english does, but that doesn't make this dub bad .

also the fact that anime IS dubbed is that dubbed the "wall" to watch will be lower for most of the americans (ever seen pokemon in dutch ? :X :X )
Pokemon in dutch? yah in fact i have. and i've also seen kenshin in spanish, ojamajo doremi in german and card captor sakura in french. since i have no idea what they were talking about, i can't critique them.

I'm just making a point i don't agree with the idea of dubbing in general.
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Old 2004-11-27, 21:56   Link #130
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Subbed, Dubbed.. whatever.. FMA

I watch my Anime both ways , I always have.... to get a complete idea of the story. Sometimes I need to pause the subs to be able to read all of it, that's a royal pain! The speech is much faster in Japanese. I also get the manga if I had not started there for anime I really like.

Over the years I have become fans of some of the VA's here and wish they could be as highly paid and appreciated as their Japanese counterparts. I can say some dubs are not good, in truth, some are dreadful. There has been huge improvements in this area.... and the writing too. Remember, the VA's are indeed actors, they work from a script.

I suppose I am saying I have begun to use my ears more than my eyes.... and what I am hearing in English on my Anime viewing is most pleasing these days. The added thing about using my ears more is my CD collection has quite a large section of Anime Theme music as well.

I am not unhappy with FMA's dubbing. Vic Mignogna is one of the voice actors I like... from the ADV camp. Someone earlier mentioned ADV had good dubbing. I agree.

How you enjoy your Anime is your choice. Just enjoy it.
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Old 2004-11-28, 09:47   Link #131
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I feel sorry for you Americans. Here in Sweden, we at least got Spirited Away undubbed in the cinema, and that was a small victory!

But there's also a difference between BAD dubbing and GOOD dubbing.
While, the dubbing of FMA didn't fail miserably, it's still not anywhere near as good as the original was.
The actor who plays Al... do I need to comment that?
And the VA's don't even TRY to sound younger in their flashbacks, they sound exactly the same! I mean, what 16 year old boy sounds the exact same when he's 8?
And some voices are just... awful. Pinako sounded less like an old lady, and more like a young lady who tries to hard to sound like an old lady.
Winry's voice isn't bad, but it's not good either. She kind of overplays it sometimes.
I don't like how they pronounce things either, sometimes. Ressembool? Pinawkoe? Ew.

I watched the subbed version of FMA 03 and then the Funimation version of FMA 03. I compared, and Al's VA just doesn't fit his character. And he can't act! And he can't narrate either! I think the boy who plays Al is too young and barely understands what he's saying on the show.

zarkand: Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is a kung fu movie. A lot of kung fu movies get dubbed immediately, when they "go abroad". But the dubbing of live action movies are often a lot worse than the worst dubbing of anime.

So I just stick to watching subs, in all movies.

I agree with jo_jo14_6, that you don't quite get the same feel of FMA when you watch the dub. It seems less... serious... :\
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Old 2004-11-28, 19:35   Link #132
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Thx for agreein with me. I'm happy to see that my point has actually struck someone in the head this time.

I too watch my anime both ways. But it's kinda hard to take sides cuz first impressions count. If you watch an anime in jap first, and then watch it in english...ur most likely to say taht u like jap better. It's the same thing vise versa. So when i watch it both ways...i try and keep an open mind. When u do give each version a chance...u can actually see the goods and the bads. When i watched FMA in english...vic mignogna wasn't entirely that bad...i can tell that he's tryin and sometimes he captures Ed's personality really well. As for Al...his voice isn't really my number one choice but the person who acts him out is doin a good job. The part in Ep 3 where Al was bein pulled in and his body was disappearin...the person did a really good job there. Al was screamin like the way Al was in jap. So i compliment that person.

Last edited by jo_jo14_6; 2004-11-28 at 20:32.
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Old 2004-11-29, 12:44   Link #133
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I have seen all the japanese episodes and so far the dubbed ones I have seen so far have been pretty nice.

A few minor problems nothin signifigant so far. Worst thing yet was in episode 4 at the end they did a bad job matching up voice/mouth movements and the garbled what was said in the japanese version a little.

The real test will come in a few more episodes with the first of the ecceptionally sad and emotional scenes with nina. I'll reserve final judgement on the dubbing till after those.
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Old 2004-11-29, 13:21   Link #134
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So far the dub ain't bad. Ed and al's voices aren't that bad. Al's voice is dead on if you ask me. Mustangs voice is a lil too deep for me.
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Old 2004-11-29, 13:58   Link #135
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What's with all the bitching? You're acting like the acting in the original version of FMA was good. IT WASN'T. The original FMA acting sounded like they were reading the script as they went along. It *obviously* wasn't rehearsed more than a few times. In fact, there was a panel at a somewhat recent convention where it was revealed that 9/10 anime voice acting is best of 3 takes. But the dubbed versions do it until they hit the part well.

Just because the voices don't have the exact same pitch doesn't mean that it's bad acting. The acting in the dub is just fine. There are bigger problems with the JAPANESE acting, but you don't notice it because of the language barrier. It's not hard to pick out the flaws in the acting if you just listen to it for what it is.\

I'm not saying that the dub doesn't have its flaws. But you're acting as if they took something perfect and made it suck. It was far from perfect before, and it certainly doesn't suck now.
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Old 2004-11-30, 01:52   Link #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maceart
I think most people in this thread doesn't understand the fact that dubbing in general is a shame and a horrendous travesty to do to any medium, whether movie, anime, or cartoon. Mediums of entertainment comes in three parts: the audio track, the video, and the musical score. By dubbing, Funi has already killed off one third of the show, and by editing the video, there goes another one third. All that's left is screwing over the OP and ED, and there goes the whole anime.

...... Huh? So by taking a TV show you like, and having another country dub it for their auidence, it destroys the purity of the show? It sounds like to me you're pissed because they didn't do it the way you wanted it done. Because when you break down the conecpt itself, what the hell's the problem? 1.) The public gets to watch a great show. 2.) Not only is the show itself promoted but anime in general is pushed further mainstream. 3.) People enjoy something you like, thus you can have great convo with others. I've spoken to 5-6 other people (not friends just strangers at video stores/comicshops) about FMA, and they hardly sound shamed or devstated about it, they've all raved about FMA, which is cool to me.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Maceart
When will America realize that foreign language films/entertainment mediums should be left in their own language? Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was one of the few which shown in movie theaters SUBBED and NON-EDITED and in native mandarin tongue. In Japan, when they show American movies, there's different show times for a subbed version and for a dubbed version. Why must America dub everything that comes into their country?
When will fans realize how different movies and TV shows are? Think about it, CTHD had the HK hype, and had a ton of buzz all around it as being a big beautiful kung fu epic and all this other jazz, vs. a show that has gotten zero hype/buzz outside of the relative fans, and a show compared by many as something not so different as anyother anime. Just based off of hype, which one is a bigger deal? Plus CTHD is a 2-3 hour movie and thus subbing it will be relatively easy and have a bigger audience impact/longer attention span because they're only watching subs for a few hours. FMA is what? 52 episodes? I don't know about you, but when I watch TV, I watch it and hear it. If I want to read the subs or know the "real" story I'll watch the DVDs. But when its on my TV I'll listen. Plus no one reads at the same speeds so if Ed or someone is dropping mad plotline sentences in one dialogue scene that shit is gonna scroll so fast some people are gonna be like "WTF did he say?!" so unless you have Tvio, you're screwed. Again, watch the DVDs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maceart
And in other countries, anime is subbed, like on Animax in Singapore and Taiwan. Why can't the U.S. embrace subtitles as a way to show an anime? Or is it that the literacy rate in the U.S. doesn't even compare to forth graders...shame on that. Well with crap like Ed, Edd, and Eddy, or a sponge in square underpants on children's show lately, I wouldn't be surprised.
I don't like EEE, but if you can't laugh at the Spongebob movie promos then damn, lighten up. Singapore and Taiwan are asian countries so therefore are used to having different asian cultures mixed. There's a lot of latin influence in Southern CA so there is SAP/Subs/TV stations tailered for latinos. My point is you can't compared two countries like that when not only political but culturely they're different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maceart
And the U.S. needs to get out of this shell that ANIME is actually a MEDIUM of entertainment, not a GENRE. Too many movie critics have put anime under a genre, thus making the all other genres useless when it comes to critique of anime. "O_o it's anime, so i'll it a cartoon, not a show with drama, romance, slice of life, comedy, etc." Shameless bastards.
Please name some of these critics and said reviews (customer reviews don't count), and Americans already have a word for animated movies/TV shows. Its called cartoon so of course any verison of "cartoon" (weither it be american, Japanese or Indian) will be considered a genre because why are they going to re-invent awhole new word just for one form of artstyle compared to all others which are basically the same in concept? I mean I consider manga, Japanese comics, because they're both graphical novels and the commonly knew term for that is comic, so thus I consider manga a different form of comics. Also the fact that anime is now a buzzword automatically puts everything Japanese in one space, which could be argued as a good and bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maceart
And it's shown on prime time in Japan damnit! Why show it at midnight here? Fools CN and FUNI another great show lost to stupid American "regulations"
Because Japanese have way less censorship and freedom for certain things compared to the US. And I kinda like some of those regulations, I don't think I'd want my 5-6 year old kid exposed to
Spoiler:
on primetime, when they're older and understanding things better then yeah, I got no problem with them looking at stuff like FMA (or anything that has execessive violence) but until then the harder it is for them to watch that, the better. Also out of ALL the people I've talked to about FMA, none of them complained about that shit, not one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maceart
And now 4kids has done it again with Ojamajo Doremi
When 4Kids or anyother company decides not to release the uncut DVDs for their show, you can complain, until I see any dubbing company forcing a gun to your head, and making you watch, I don't see a problem.

Fans need to realize, that not everyone wants to be force fed anime and in a sense awhole new culture because said fans think its "cool". When people watch FMA or whatever anime on TV, they will come to their own conclusions regardless if their exposed to it dubbed or uncut. If you tell them theres a totally different story and all this other crap about a show they saw dubbed, and still don't feel opted to watch it, then even if they were exposed to the uncut verison chances are they still wouldn't give a damn. And that's what some people gotta understand.
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Old 2004-11-30, 02:27   Link #137
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jub if you will notice FMA airs on ADULT SWIM on cartoon network it airs with advisories to parents. As a result in this I don't expect FMA to pull many punchs in its censorship of FMA. They certainly didn't in kikader, as well as some of the other anime's they have air on adult swim.

I'm always aganist the censorship of some of the gore in american cartoons. Strang you may think, but think about it what is a better thing for a child to see.

1)Someone gets stabed in FMA/naruto and are bleeding and seriously hurt.

2)Teenage mutant ninja turtles hit each other with swords sticks sai's etc etc and noone ever gets hurt ...

The first shows consequences and what happens when things get to a voilent stage. The 2nd is a fantasy world where fighting with deadly weapons is safe. You may not want your child watching either perhaps but out of the 2 I think 1 is preferable.
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Old 2004-11-30, 12:15   Link #138
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Tough point. I pretty much think so myself. And people wonder why I give them advice to check what their kids are watching. ^^
Those Turtles really creep me out !!

Anyways, I just finished listening to the first ep of english-dubbed FMA (friend of mine taped it and sent it all the way to europe for me. YAY!) and after laughing my *ahem* off because of the "strange and unused voices" I found it not all too bad.

I certainly can not understand what all the bickering is about. 'Kay, there are some lines in there that sound as if plain read from the paper, but I've seen worse. It's not as if the original was perfect either. ^^

(But then, most japanese seiyuu are pretty good since they're often either famous actors or singers. We often get the "No-name" actors and/or those that speak in several cartoon/anime/TVshow series. No offence meant, but a professional education and years of experience can only do good... and the jap. actors are famous for it.)

Imho, it just takes some getting used to hearing the same show with different voices, especially after having watched the O-version for some time. I think the biggest problem is the downright different sound of the languages. That goes for nearly every dub, btw. (Whenever a new anime starts on german TV I go WTF??? for the first few episodes and then grow accustomed to it - cause the language is a lot more "hard" in the flow. - Same goes for french TV. Or dutch.)

The time of airing is probably chosen due to the attitude of lots of American parents. You know, those that cry out if a *KIDS*-show so much as *hints* some chara in the buff or put Harry Potter on the Black List because of the EVIL occultism. Companies tend to avoid the argument with them. (Though I do SO not understand why at the same afternoon time there are these certain Talk-shows that use far worse vocab and no one seems to be disturbed by that...)

Think positive: Aired this late you can doubt that there will ever be a hype of the show - or would you rather think of 10 year olds running around playing alchemist, because the show is so freakin KEWL and please, I wanna have some automail, too... Of course, a Kiddie-hype would come along with even more censory and re-editing of dialogues. *shivers* (I've seen it with YuGiOh! No need to repeat that!)


Still, I think, a dub is better than nothing at all, and if it happens to be *really* crappy we're free to go back to the memory of good ole fansubs... or hope there'll be the DVDs sometime in the near future.
Be glad you have it! I'll probably never get the chance to watch it here.
(Although I'm very tempted to imagine how it sounds, with all the names spelled and pronounced *correctly* )

In fact, I think a DUB is good because it's easy to get in your language, you don't need to pay so much attention (Yupp, I use to iron the laundry while watching TV) and you can be sure to understand all of it.
The last point is my favorite. I like to point out that I'm watching a show because of it's content, not because of how a voice sounds. 'Kay, if everything comes in a particulary nice package, I'm delighted, but if not, then... well. It happens.

And if I'm totally pissed off by the bad job of dubbing, I don't watch it. No point in argueing here. ^^


J‚ nee!
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Old 2004-11-30, 12:59   Link #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xarrais
jub if you will notice FMA airs on ADULT SWIM on cartoon network it airs with advisories to parents. As a result in this I don't expect FMA to pull many punchs in its censorship of FMA. They certainly didn't in kikader, as well as some of the other anime's they have air on adult swim.

I'm always aganist the censorship of some of the gore in american cartoons. Strang you may think, but think about it what is a better thing for a child to see.

1)Someone gets stabed in FMA/naruto and are bleeding and seriously hurt.

2)Teenage mutant ninja turtles hit each other with swords sticks sai's etc etc and noone ever gets hurt ...

The first shows consequences and what happens when things get to a voilent stage. The 2nd is a fantasy world where fighting with deadly weapons is safe. You may not want your child watching either perhaps but out of the 2 I think 1 is preferable.
I don't want to change the topic into a whole what way is better to raise a kid discussion, but I'll defend my points real quick and let this die. Kids absorb more of their enviorment then teenagers or adults that's a given, kids are sponges, but absorb different aspects and view it in different light. For example:

1.) They could witness the consquences of a stab and think its cool and try it on someone else.

2.) They could think the weapons don't do any damage and start playing with them.

Those two reasons are actually not why I want my kids at a young age watching shit like FMA until their older, its the consquences behind their actions in the show. For example:

1.) The stabbing its the actions behind the stabbing that bugs me, FMA has a few messages about revenge, sacrifice and being not able to cope with death etc. etc. Even though Ed and Al are noble good guys and the overall story has a postive origin (repenting for your mistakes), the obivious bad messages overshadow the postive aspect, meaning by the sheer number of bad messages vs. good ones, you have a chance of having your young child of only understanding the bad ones, or just by how dark the show is, they would have a wierd and unhealthy view of the positive aspect, or the chances are he can focus on the good side, but either way FMA is a dark story and a story that would be very much appericated at an older stage in life.

2.) As for TMNT whenever they kick ass, they kick ass for the greater good, for protecting themselves, others or the universe. The general messages in TMNT are positive and thus harder for that to be taken in a bad light.
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Old 2004-12-02, 17:19   Link #140
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Age: 24
Not to change the subject about FMA but...I think that JubeiYamazaki's comment about kids being like sponges is right. For example, if you remember Pokemon...you would have Poke-battles, and the Pokemon wouldn't exactly be hurt. When Pokemon was still popular, i remember hearin on the news that a little kid literally took a knife and threw it at another kid becuase he was trying to copy a pokemon named Cubone or somethin like that.

Anyways...back to FMA and its dubbing. They're right. Not everything is perfect. Actually...there's really no such thing as a perfect anime. I dont' no why everyone is bickerin about the dubbed version...i think it's actually pretty well done if u ask me. I think that Al's voice was dead on. If you like the FMA in japanese, the shut up and stop watchin FMA in english and go back to watchin it in japanese. Don't force other people to think the way you think...that's not the way the world works.
jo_jo14_6 is offline  
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