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Old 2011-10-11, 08:25   Link #261
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Actually we still really don't know about Togashi's language cause the guidebook that came out with the language wasn't very helpful, and Togaishi didn't create the language until later on, before hand he left the signs blank, so you can't hold it against them for not knowing what the signs looked like. And even then the 1999 version looks more the manga than the 2011 version.
That's not true. Togashi always had the language created. Even before the guidebook came out, you could read the signs. This was published in Jump way before the guidebook was released. All you need is a rudimentary understanding of Japanese. For instance, the one you point to says: "Danger: Majuu Chuui (Magical Beasts)!!" It's in the manga (first volume, fourth chapter) as well:

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Its black and white the old lady never received any colorization in the manga so you can't say which one is right and which one is wrong based off of a black and white picture.
I never said it was wrong--I said that her colors in the 1999 version clashed. The 2011 color scheme relies mostly on two shades for her dress--white and lavender. The different shades of each on top of each other leads to a very aesthetically pleasing design. In the first series, she's all over the place: goldenrod, blue, maroon, green--they just don't go together well.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Actually both of the anime adaptions Gon's are off compared to the manga.
I'm not talking about his pose here, but his character design. Look at his face. The only thing the 1999 version does closer to the manga is Gon's jacket collar.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
This is not helping your case much as the 1999 version is the one on the right and the one on the right resembles the manga more, as the girl's mouth is open in both. the 2011 version her mouth is not open and her expression is different from the manga ditto with the other images below it.

This is just a case of the camera being zoomed out, but once again the 1999 version looks more like the manga.

I have no idea what your trying to prove but again 1999 adaptation wasn't that much different from the manga, because your skipping out on the changes made by the 2011 version.

Though for the record in the 1999 adaptation they did say that Mito was Gin's cousin.
What do you think my case is? I already posted that I wanted to look at the series objectively ("The comparisons are solely supposed to be an objective view over both series, something viewers typically won't do having watched the original and loved it"). In the post that you're quoting, I specifically mention that the 1999 series copied most scenes panel for panel:

"Episode 5 of the 1999 version generally adapted certain scenes exactly the same as how they look in the manga. It's also the first episode in the original series in which we get some pretty good animation; the scenes of Gon and Kurapika running through the trees is great. As such, the 2011 version largely changed the blocking for some scenes. The biggest difference was found in character expressions, which tend to match the manga's in the 2011 version but are different in the 1999 one"

Just pay more attention to the things I say next time. Also, the 1999 anime doesn't mention Mito being Ging's cousin. Mito mentions in the first episode that she's Gon's mother's sister--which is why it doesn't make a lick of sense how she knows Ging from childhood.
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Old 2011-10-11, 09:20   Link #262
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
That's not true. Togashi always had the language created. Even before the guidebook came out, you could read the signs. This was published in Jump way before the guidebook was released. All you need is a rudimentary understanding of Japanese. For instance, the one you point to says: "Danger: Majuu Chuui (Magical Beasts)!!" It's in the manga (first volume, fourth chapter) as well:
But when was that shown in Shounen Weekly? You have to keep in mind the timing.
Quote:
I never said it was wrong--I said that her colors in the 1999 version clashed. The 2011 color scheme relies mostly on two shades for her dress--white and lavender. The different shades of each on top of each other leads to a very aesthetically pleasing design. In the first series, she's all over the place: goldenrod, blue, maroon, green--they just don't go together well.
That's an opinion not a fact, it doesn't clash to me.

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I'm not talking about his pose here, but his character design. Look at his face. The only thing the 1999 version does closer to the manga is Gon's jacket collar.
and both of them are off.

Quote:
What do you think my case is? I already posted that I wanted to look at the series objectively ("The comparisons are solely supposed to be an objective view over both series, something viewers typically won't do having watched the original and loved it"). In the post that you're quoting, I specifically mention that the 1999 series copied most scenes panel for panel:
Because your doing nothing more than nitpicking, I know the real reasons why but as I've said before what does it matter? It seems more like your complaining about the 1999 adaptation deviating (although it didn't really deviate at all) from the manga. If the Madhouse re-make is better then it will have to prove itself. Your comparison on a whole is very one-sided, as the 2011 version isn't following the manga exactly either. Even if that's not what your trying to say that's how your posts come across.

Quote:
Just pay more attention to the things I say next time. Also, the 1999 anime doesn't mention Mito being Ging's cousin. Mito mentions in the first episode that she's Gon's mother's sister--which is why it doesn't make a lick of sense how she knows Ging from childhood.
Yes, it does in the arc when Gon goes home with Killua, right before the York Shin City arc, so you are wrong in this case. Gon's grandmother mentions it. They even included Flashbacks of Ging and Mito when they were young, shortly after she said it. Make sure your complaint is actually valid before you post it.
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Old 2011-10-11, 10:03   Link #263
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
But when was that shown in Shounen Weekly? You have to keep in mind the timing.
The sign or the alphabet? The HxH alphabet has been in use since the very first chapter, as it's on Gon's Hunter Examination Registration Card. The alphabet was published as an insert the very next week.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
That's an opinion not a fact, it doesn't clash to me.
I'm strictly talking fashion design. In the real world, the colors the first woman is wearing clearly clash. There's no way anyone could get away with wearing that. The new colors are more conservative, but simultaneously more stylish. It doesn't look like she just rolled out of bed and put whatever on--she clearly chose clothing that would go well together. Of course, there's a way to clash colors and still have it look good--but this isn't it.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
and both of them are off.
Can you explain how? The Madhouse design of Gon is extremely consistent with the way that he's drawn throughout the chapter. There's no solid eyeline beneath his pupil like in the Nippon Animation design, his hair is the correct length, his neck has the right thickness, his eyebrows are closer, and so is his hairline. These are all problems associated with the picture I posted from the 1999 anime--and keep in mind, that's a still frame. The only thing moving in that scene is Gon's mouth.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Because your doing nothing more than nitpicking, I know the real reasons why but as I've said before what does it matter? It seems more like your complaining about the 1999 adaptation deviating (although it didn't really deviate at all) from the manga. If the Madhouse re-make is better then it will have to prove itself. Your comparison on a whole is very one-sided, as the 2011 version isn't following the manga exactly either. Even if that's not what your trying to say that's how your posts come across.
Nitpicking? I'm doing this because I find it interesting and other people might find it the same. There are worse ways of spending an hour on a Sunday morning. And the reason why I mention the 1999 version's deviations is because many people have forgotten how it has. It'll make more sense in the episode that airs next week. The 2011 show's deviations are significantly lesser, but I'll keep that in mind the next time I do another episode comparison.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Yes, it does in the arc when Gon goes home with Killua, right before the York Shin City arc, so you are wrong in this case. Gon's grandmother mentions it. They even included Flashbacks of Ging and Mito when they were young, shortly after she said it. Make sure your complaint is actually valid before you post it.
*sigh* You should actually watch the episode before you make a post like this. I don't understand how you're going to discredit me if you aren't actually going to do the research.

Go to about 7 minutes into episode 47. When Mito is talking about the first time she saw Ging again, she says "Ging left just like that. When he finally came back, ten years had passed. The photo in our shop was taken then. That's also when he married my sister."

In the manga, Mito's grandmother (not mother, like in the anime) says: "Ging is my eldest son's only child. Mito is my second son's only daughter. Her parents died in an accident."

That's why the flashback between Ging and Mito doesn't make sense in the first anime: why are Mito and Ging hanging out in the first place? And in the first anime, Ging and Mito's older sister marry when he comes back--but in the manga, Ging returns after ten years (at 22) with Gon already in his arms. Also, take into account that Gon's mother is dead in the first anime. Ging just says that they separated in the manga, leaving her status wide open.
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Old 2011-10-11, 10:37   Link #264
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
The sign or the alphabet? The HxH alphabet has been in use since the very first chapter, as it's on Gon's Hunter Examination Registration Card. The alphabet was published as an insert the very next week.
okay then

Quote:
I'm strictly talking fashion design. In the real world, the colors the first woman is wearing clearly clash. There's no way anyone could get away with wearing that. The new colors are more conservative, but simultaneously more stylish. It doesn't look like she just rolled out of bed and put whatever on--she clearly chose clothing that would go well together. Of course, there's a way to clash colors and still have it look good--but this isn't it.
The extra color are a part of her kimono, and again it doesn't clash with her beads, just isn't one solid color doesn't mean it clashes.

Quote:
Can you explain how? The Madhouse design of Gon is extremely consistent with the way that he's drawn throughout the chapter. There's no solid eyeline beneath his pupil like in the Nippon Animation design, his hair is the correct length, his neck has the right thickness, his eyebrows are closer, and so is his hairline. These are all problems associated with the picture I posted from the 1999 anime--and keep in mind, that's a still frame. The only thing moving in that scene is Gon's mouth.
Well the outfits are the same, and like someone else pointed out the 1999 was hand drawn without the assistance of a computer.
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Nitpicking? I'm doing this because I find it interesting and other people might find it the same. There are worse ways of spending an hour on a Sunday morning. And the reason why I mention the 1999 version's deviations is because many people have forgotten how it has. It'll make more sense in the episode that airs next week. The 2011 show's deviations are significantly lesser, but I'll keep that in mind the next time I do another episode comparison.
As the famous saying goes its not what you say its how you say it, and how your stating your comparison is coming across not only as nitpicking, even if you don't mean it to come across that way. Also the reason why people mistake many of the fillers of the first adaptation for canon is because 1. they never read the manga and 2. the writing style in the filler for the 1999 adaptation was so close to Togashi's writing style that its really hard to tell the difference between a canon event and a filler event, which we'll never be able to judge for this re-make unless they enter into a filler event. And its even worse now because before you could the subtle changes in characterization to tell the difference, and you can't even do that anymore. So you can't blame people for that.

Quote:
*sigh* You should actually watch the episode before you make a post like this. I don't understand how you're going to discredit me if you aren't actually going to do the research.

Go to about 7 minutes into episode 47. When Mito is talking about the first time she saw Ging again, she says "Ging left just like that. When he finally came back, ten years had passed. The photo in our shop was taken then. That's also when he married my sister."

In the manga, Mito's grandmother (not mother, like in the anime) says: "Ging is my eldest son's only child. Mito is my second son's only daughter. Her parents died in an accident."

That's why the flashback between Ging and Mito doesn't make sense in the first anime: why are Mito and Ging hanging out in the first place? And in the first anime, Ging and Mito's older sister marry when he comes back--but in the manga, Ging returns after ten years (at 22) with Gon already in his arms. Also, take into account that Gon's mother is dead in the first anime. Ging just says that they separated in the manga, leaving her status wide open.
I was mistaken.
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Old 2011-10-11, 10:50   Link #265
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
The extra color are a part of her kimono, and again it doesn't clash with her beads, just isn't one solid color doesn't mean it clashes.
But she's not wearing a kimono--it's a vest, a shirt, and a skirt. A three-piece ensemble with jewelry to boot. I'm just saying that Nippon Animation's color scheme for her is somewhat visually unappealing because it doesn't take into consideration how people actually dress. This might not be the case with everyone, but it is with her.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Well the outfits are the same, and like someone else pointed out the 1999 was hand drawn without the assistance of a computer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxaYx6n64J4

Go to around 3:30. The Madhouse version is at least partially hand-drawn. But at the same time, most episodes of the Nippon Animation version are drawn significantly better than this episode--episode 4 was disappointing because of this fact.

Gon's outfit may be the same, but even his dimensions are inconsistent--I think that's a problem.


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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
As the famous saying goes its not what you say its how you say it, and how your stating your comparison is coming across not only as nitpicking, even if you don't mean it to come across that way. Also the reason why people mistake many of the fillers of the first adaptation for canon is because 1. they never read the manga and 2. the writing style in the filler for the 1999 adaptation was so close to Togashi's writing style that its really hard to tell the difference between a canon event and a filler event, which we'll never be able to judge for this re-make unless they enter into a filler event. And its even worse now because before you could the subtle changes in characterization to tell the difference, and you can't even do that anymore. So you can't blame people for that.
I disagree about the writing style for the filler in the 1999 version being similar to Togashi's own writing style. The way that characters speak also changes in the 1999 version, but it really isn't worth pointing out unless you speak Japanese as well. There are a lot of really cliché lines added into it. And again, I'm just trying to provide an objective view for the three versions of the series. That's all. You may call it "nitpicky," I'll call it "detailed."

Last edited by Toto y Moi; 2011-10-11 at 11:05.
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Old 2011-10-11, 11:13   Link #266
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
But she's not wearing a kimono--it's a vest, a shirt, and a skirt. A three-piece ensemble with jewelry to boot. I'm just saying that Nippon Animation's color scheme for her is somewhat visually unappealing because it doesn't take into consideration how people actually dress. This might not be the case with everyone, but it is with her.
Again that's your opinion not everyone has to share it.

Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxaYx6n64J4

Go to around 3:30. The Madhouse version is at least partially hand-drawn. But at the same time, most episodes of the Nippon Animation version that are drawn significantly better than this episode--episode 4 was disappointing because of this fact.

Gon's outfit may be the same, but even his character dimensions are inconsistent--I think that's a problem.
Its still computer assisted, which means means its significantly easier for them to spot ant fix their mistakes.


Quote:
I disagree about the writing style for the filler in the 1999 version being similar to Togashi's own writing style. The way that characters speak also changes in the 1999 version, but it really isn't worth pointing out unless you speak Japanese as well. There are a lot of really cliché lines added into it. And again, I'm just trying to provide an objective view for the three versions of the series. That's all. You may call it "nitpicky," I'll call it "detailed."
If you didn't read the manga beforehand would you know that certain parts of the 1999 adaptation were filler? Usually the writing style is different enough that you can tell the difference, between a filler and a canon episode even without having read the manga (keep in mind I'm referring to cases where is if the events were shown accurately). I say this again because I have come across people who didn't realize that those parts were filler until they read the manga, and from my experience its actually quite common with the 1999 adaptation which is why I said what I said. You have to remember that Hunterx Hunter's manga is also somewhat cliche as well, but its what it does with the cliche that makes it an enjoyable series. But then again I don't into fine print much detail in every series I watch because I know that they all have their own constraints (if I did I'd probably out and out hate certain series).
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Old 2011-10-11, 12:48   Link #267
Toto y Moi
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Again that's your opinion not everyone has to share it.
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm not trying to get people to share my opinion, but broaden their own. I love the original series, but the general view I've seen of the 2011 version seems overly antagonistic. In a lot of instances, I've actually liked it better than the original.

But I also had the grievances with certain colors when I watched the original series as well.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Its still computer assisted, which means means its significantly easier for them to spot ant fix their mistakes.
While true, animation mistakes are fixed all the time on keys. All it takes is whiteout and redrawing a messed up line. The problem with that scene is that it's a key frame--that means the artist and the animation director both approved it as passable--but clearly, it's sub-par. This doesn't happen in many other episodes (1 and 5, for instance).

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
If you didn't read the manga beforehand would you know that certain parts of the 1999 adaptation were filler? Usually the writing style is different enough that you can tell the difference, between a filler and a canon episode even without having read the manga (keep in mind I'm referring to cases where is if the events were shown accurately). I say this again because I have come across people who didn't realize that those parts were filler until they read the manga, and from my experience its actually quite common with the 1999 adaptation which is why I said what I said. You have to remember that Hunterx Hunter's manga is also somewhat cliche as well, but its what it does with the cliche that makes it an enjoyable series. But then again I don't into fine print much detail in every series I watch because I know that they all have their own constraints (if I did I'd probably out and out hate certain series).
I suppose this isn't a view that I can relate to...I started out reading the manga of Hunter x Hunter. Before I watched the anime, I had already gotten 8 or 9 volumes into the series. I always knew what was filler and what wasn't.

It's not to say that all of the filler is bad in the original series--it varies. I think that many of the things added in the latter half of the Hunter Exam work out well and the Heavens Arena/Yorknew City arcs are near perfection. Other scenes, not so much. But I'll get to those as they come along.

I'd contest against the HxH series being cliché though--I think it attempts to break out of shonen tropes and conventions.
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Old 2011-10-11, 18:12   Link #268
Clarste
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Personally, I never liked the beginning of the original anime. It takes way too long to get the meat of the story, and the padding it adds doesn't really develop the world or the characters in any meaningful way. In some sense, I feel like it's insulting my intelligence by taking way too long to tell a simple story.

By the time it gets around to the end of the Hunter Exam or York Shin, it has enough to work with so that the things it adds actually feel meaningful, but in the very beginning I can't call it good. I probably wouldn't have kept watching if I hadn't already read the manga.
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Old 2011-10-11, 18:21   Link #269
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Personally, I never liked the beginning of the original anime. It takes way too long to get the meat of the story, and the padding it adds doesn't really develop the world or the characters in any meaningful way. In some sense, I feel like it's insulting my intelligence by taking way too long to tell a simple story.

By the time it gets around to the end of the Hunter Exam or York Shin, it has enough to work with so that the things it adds actually feel meaningful, but in the very beginning I can't call it good. I probably wouldn't have kept watching if I hadn't already read the manga.
Ditto on it taking too long.

I have wanted to get my friends into this series, but I see it as being extremely hard to get them into it watching the first anime. It takes so long for stuff to finally start happening.

The beginning reminds me of like Reborns beginning, feels like its all filler.
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Old 2011-10-11, 18:39   Link #270
ars89
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voice cast for the exam has been announced

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...cast-annoucned

Toshio Furukawa as Satotz
Daisuke Kishio as Hanzō
Toshiharu Sakurai as Tompa
Norihisa Mori as Nicole
Ichitarō Ai as Beans
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Old 2011-10-11, 19:55   Link #271
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Long story short, the new anime sticks closer to the manga as of episode 1, but it's subjective whether that's a good thing or not.
I am one of those who grew tired of needless padding in shounen adaptions if that means taking too long to get to the interesting parts. So, 2011 HxH's pacing is a good thing for me.
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Old 2011-10-11, 21:09   Link #272
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm not trying to get people to share my opinion, but broaden their own. I love the original series, but the general view I've seen of the 2011 version seems overly antagonistic. In a lot of instances, I've actually liked it better than the original.
Again its a hard act to follow and the staff for the 2011 anime doesn't help matters.


Quote:
While true, animation mistakes are fixed all the time on keys. All it takes is whiteout and redrawing a messed up line. The problem with that scene is that it's a key frame--that means the artist and the animation director both approved it as passable--but clearly, it's sub-par. This doesn't happen in many other episodes (1 and 5, for instance).
Again hand-drawn which means that at times there is only so much they can do

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I suppose this isn't a view that I can relate to...I started out reading the manga of Hunter x Hunter. Before I watched the anime, I had already gotten 8 or 9 volumes into the series. I always knew what was filler and what wasn't.

It's not to say that all of the filler is bad in the original series--it varies. I think that many of the things added in the latter half of the Hunter Exam work out well and the Heavens Arena/Yorknew City arcs are near perfection. Other scenes, not so much. But I'll get to those as they come along.

I'd contest against the HxH series being cliché though--I think it attempts to break out of shonen tropes and conventions.
So did I (I read more manga than I watched anime), but I've come across people who were introduced through HXH through the 1999 anime and so literally couldn't tell the difference between a filler and a canon event.

That's why I said what HXH did with the cliches they used, is what makes it enjoyable. Togashi played with all of the cliches he used to the point where you can now say that HXH might as well be a deconstruction of shounen series using those same cliches (not unlike One Piece in that regard).
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Old 2011-10-11, 23:19   Link #273
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It actually seems more like your trying too hard to find fault with the 1999 version, and sometimes even up being factually wrong. I know you're upset about people comparing the two versions but you have to understand the Nippon Animation version was good and not only that but exceptional to the point where is considered one of the best anime series of all time, despite its faults, so its a hard act to follow. And no nostalgia has nothing to do with it, as I've come across plenty of people who have recently watched the 1999 version and have admitted to it being one of the best anime that they've ever seen for many of those people it actually changed their minds about filler episodes (the fact that you have to know exactly what happened in the manga to be able to tell them apart from canon events should be telling enough) because of how on point it was in terms of characterization (and even the changes and additions they made--even though they weren't overt-- would later on fit in anyway in later arcs- making any complaints in this area moot). This is a world of difference between this and FMA whose first adaptation did its own thing and ended up with an end result that is best described as YMMV, because in this case if someone hates the 1999 version then chances are they'll hate the manga and subsequently the 2011 re-make too. Right now Madhouse either has to do better than the 1999 adaptation (which will be hard) or go home. Your gonna have to get over this fact because that's the truth.
I agree with you about the original series being amazing, and I also think it's unlikely that this remake with equal, much less top (or even come close to) to the original.

But I disagree that Madhouse has to "go home." This implies that the original should be the minimum standard that has to be met and anything else is worthless. I simply don't agree with this and I find that it is being unfair to the new series. The 2011 version is not trying to remake the original; it's remaking the manga. So for me the question is not, "Is this better than the original?" or "Does it have the subtly mature atmosphere the original series had? (which by the way, the manga did not)", but rather: "Was it able to bring Togashi's work (for all its merits and faults) to life faithfully and effectively?"

And so far, with that standard, I'm pretty satisfied.

Last edited by chikkychappy; 2011-10-12 at 02:27.
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Old 2011-10-12, 00:30   Link #274
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by chikkychappy View Post
I agree with you about the original series being amazing, and I also think it's unlikely that this remake with equal, much less top (or even come close to) to the original.

But I disagree that Madhouse has to "go home." This implies that the original should be the minimum standard that has to be met and anything else is worthless. I simply don't agree with this and I find that it is being unfair to the new series. The 2011 version is not trying to remake the original; it's remaking the manga. So for me the question is not, "Is this better than the original?" or "Does it have the subtly mature atmosphere the original series had? (which by the way, the manga did not)", but rather: "Was it able to bring Togashi's work (for all its merits and faults) to life faithfully and effectively?"

And so far, with that standard, I'm pretty satisfied.
Correction this remake has a chance to actually make the Greed Island arc better than the first adaptation's version (which was lackluster).

When I said "go home" I did not mean that the first adaptation was the standard for this new one to be judged by, because let's face it, that would be too unrealistic not to forget wrong. This is why I've pretty much always referred to the 1999 adaptation as just that an adaptation, I've never once called it original, because an adaptation can never be original. Look back in my posts when have I ever referred to the 1999 adaptation as "original" I always refer to it as an adaptation. So implying that I am calling the first adaptation original is simply ridiculous.

So far all I really care about is how enjoyable this is going to be, I'll only start comparing series, after I finish watching this one.
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Old 2011-10-12, 09:04   Link #275
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Actually that wasn't a retcon. Your forgetting something very important. The characters never went along Masshu's route, so they never saw what happened to him only heard it. They also never said that Masshu wasn't in city anymore or how far he got before he was killed, so Kurapica hearing Masshu dying doesn't create any problems with the story, and it certainly wasn't retconned. All it really means is that Kurapica's senses are better than Leorio's and they are.
In the 1999 anime, Matthew is clearly in a forest outside of the city when he's attacked. In the manga, you could argue that he could still be in the city when Kurapika hears it. But it still makes Melody's ability less special than it is. I think that it's a welcome change.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
The scenes were all still digitally made so you really can't compare it to the 1999 adaptation which was all hand drawn. I also want to see your confirmation that the 2011 Madhouse version was hand drawn because this is the first time I've heard it.
Though I've already addressed it, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxaYx6n64J4

The scene being drawn by hand and traced over is in the actual anime. It's being digitally colored, but hand drawn. Digital animation isn't magic--it's drawing using a tablet computer. It's almost the exact same thing, only pencils aren't used. There are hand drawn anime that look better than digital and vice versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Leorio is not a fighter he is a doctor, and in the 1999 version he never left the patients side either.
Spoiler for York Shin City arc:
But Leorio does fight...his briefcase is literally filled with weapons.
Spoiler for Hunter x Hunter Exam Spoilers:


And I have no clue what you're talking about when you mention that Leorio never left his patient's side in the 1999 version--he clearly spends half the episode outside of the cabin in order to grab some herbs. Watch it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
It actually seems more like your trying too hard to find fault with the 1999 version, and sometimes even up being factually wrong. I know you're upset about people comparing the two versions but you have to understand the Nippon Animation version was good and not only that but exceptional to the point where is considered one of the best anime series of all time, despite its faults, so its a hard act to follow. And no nostalgia has nothing to do with it, as I've come across plenty of people who have recently watched the 1999 version and have admitted to it being one of the best anime that they've ever seen for many of those people it actually changed their minds about filler episodes (the fact that you have to know exactly what happened in the manga to be able to tell them apart from canon events should be telling enough) because of how on point it was in terms of characterization (and even the changes and additions they made--even though they weren't overt-- would later on fit in anyway in later arcs- making any complaints in this area moot). This is a world of difference between this and FMA whose first adaptation did its own thing and ended up with an end result that is best described as YMMV, because in this case if someone hates the 1999 version then chances are they'll hate the manga and subsequently the 2011 re-make too. Right now Madhouse either has to do better than the 1999 adaptation (which will be hard) or go home. Your gonna have to get over this fact because that's the truth.
Show me where I'm factually incorrect? If anything, I think that you might need to check your facts. I'm not upset about people comparing the two versions--I've literally done it myself within this thread. But I believe it to be true that nostalgia has a ton to do with people's perceptions with the series. There were fantastic moments in Nippon Animation's version, and there were terrible moments. The problem is that the terrible ones are glossed over or forgotten because of how much they were outshone by most other scenes. Just as you've talked to people who have said the anime series is "one of the best of all time," I'm sure that I've seen just as many who have complained about the slow start and inconsistencies present in the first half of the series. I've been pointing out that it isn't as perfect as people say; despite how good most of the series is, there are some real problems that we tend to overlook as fans. As I've said before, objective view. I'm not going to let how I feel about the 1999 series as a whole affect the comparison I'm doing.

If a show is saturated with filler moments to begin with, then of course it becomes difficult to tell the difference between canon and filler moments. And regardless of what you say, the characterization is often wrong in many instances and it potentially does change the nature of future arcs. I've never once said that I've disliked the 1999 version, and numerous times I've mentioned that I think it's great. But keep in mind that it can bring in multiple new audiences--including people who loved the manga but thought that the original series was too slow in the beginning (they exist, believe me).

The last sentence you wrote--"Right now Madhouse either has to do better than the 1999 adaptation (which will be hard) or go home. Your gonna have to get over this fact because that's the truth."--isn't true at all. That's just you stating your opinion. Japanese audiences aren't going to go out and buy the DVDs from a show that aired a decade ago, and it wasn't really that well-received when airing either. This show has a shot of really propelling Hunter x Hunter into an international success--especially considering that despite all of Togashi's hiatuses, his volumes sell almost as much as Naruto's do. Instead of already demoting the 2011 version to a lesser status, try to look at it from another perspective.

Last edited by Toto y Moi; 2011-10-12 at 09:43.
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Old 2011-10-12, 11:07   Link #276
wisteria233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
In the 1999 anime, Matthew is clearly in a forest outside of the city when he's attacked. In the manga, you could argue that he could still be in the city when Kurapika hears it. But it still makes Melody's ability less special than it is. I think that it's a welcome change.
I was speaking of the manga which is why I said it wasn't a retcon, because you said Togashi retconned it.


Quote:
Though I've already addressed it, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxaYx6n64J4

The scene being drawn by hand and traced over is in the actual anime. It's being digitally colored, but hand drawn. Digital animation isn't magic--it's drawing using a tablet computer. It's almost the exact same thing, only pencils aren't used. There are hand drawn anime that look better than digital and vice versa.
Digital animation isn't magic but it does make it easier for them to pinpoint mistakes and them. That's why mistakes are to be expected with hand drawn series.

Quote:
But Leorio does fight...his briefcase is literally filled with weapons.
Spoiler for Hunter x Hunter Exam Spoilers:

And I have no clue what you're talking about when you mention that Leorio never left his patient's side in the 1999 version--he clearly spends half the episode outside of the cabin in order to grab some herbs. Watch it again.
I never said that Leorio was a bad fighter (which is why I said that he doesn't get in the way) just that he later on gets hit with a case of Can't Catch Up, though that was because fighting isn't where his interests lie.
Spoiler for Killua's family arc:


But he was still caring for his patient, which is why I said what i said. Maybe I should have been more specific I mean that he didn't follow Kurapica and Gon.


Quote:
Show me where I'm factually incorrect? If anything, I think that you might need to check your facts. I'm not upset about people comparing the two versions--I've literally done it myself within this thread. But I believe it to be true that nostalgia has a ton to do with people's perceptions with the series. There were fantastic moments in Nippon Animation's version, and there were terrible moments. The problem is that the terrible ones are glossed over or forgotten because of how much they were outshone by most other scenes. Just as you've talked to people who have said the anime series is "one of the best of all time," I'm sure that I've seen just as many who have complained about the slow start and inconsistencies present in the first half of the series. I've been pointing out that it isn't as perfect as people say; despite how good most of the series is, there are some real problems that we tend to overlook as fans. As I've said before, objective view. I'm not going to let how I feel about the 1999 series as a whole affect the comparison I'm doing.
We already talked about this in the previous posts the one you're quoting in the previous pages.

Quote:
If a show is saturated with filler moments to begin with, then of course it becomes difficult to tell the difference between canon and filler moments. And regardless of what you say, the characterization is often wrong in many instances and it potentially does change the nature of future arcs. I've never once said that I've disliked the 1999 version, and numerous times I've mentioned that I think it's great. But keep in mind that it can bring in multiple new audiences--including people who loved the manga but thought that the original series was too slow in the beginning (they exist, believe me).
That's why I said to remember when the 1999 adaptation came out, because the original manga had only been out since March 1998 when it came out with only three volumes worth of material. So the fillers were to be expected, as there wasn't enough material. But usually people are able to tell the difference between a filler episode and a canon event without having read the original manga. However with the first adaptation it was hard for people to do this unless they had read the manga previously (I've said this to you multiple times, and you yourself admitted to not knowing how it was for people like this or not this was true due to the fact that you actually read the manga before you saw the 1999 adaptation).

I'm not knocking on the new adaptation (even though I'm unsure of the script writer, and the director). When did I ever say that people won't enjoy this new adaptation? I only said that people who have seen the 1999 adaptation will always compare it to the 2011 version, and that you shouldn't be upset about people doing it because it is to be expected. I'm not doing it because I don't care either (if its good its good if its not its not).

Quote:
The last sentence you wrote--"Right now Madhouse either has to do better than the 1999 adaptation (which will be hard) or go home. Your gonna have to get over this fact because that's the truth."--isn't true at all. That's just you stating your opinion. Japanese audiences aren't going to go out and buy the DVDs from a show that aired a decade ago, and it wasn't really that well-received when airing either. This show has a shot of really propelling Hunter x Hunter into an international success--especially considering that despite all of Togashi's hiatuses, his volumes sell almost as much as Naruto's do. Instead of already demoting the 2011 version to a lesser status, try to look at it from another perspective.
When did I ever say that they were? When did I ever imply that? Don't ever jump to conclusions. It doing well overseas depends on whether or not Madhouse does a good job. You can't say that I'm not giving the new adaptation a chance when I'm not the one who has been comparing it to the manga or the 1999 adaptation. And even then I'm not so sure that HXH is that unpopular in other countries, because the last time I visited France it was actually above Naruto, but that was in 2006 so I can't speak for certain.

Last edited by wisteria233; 2011-10-12 at 11:59.
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Old 2011-10-12, 11:31   Link #277
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
In the 1999 anime, Matthew is clearly in a forest outside of the city when he's attacked. In the manga, you could argue that he could still be in the city when Kurapika hears it. But it still makes Melody's ability less special than it is. I think that it's a welcome change.
Um... not really. Hearing someone's death scream from a distance is kind of different from recognizing people's unique footsteps from across a crowded city square. Melody's hearing would still be several orders of magnitude better, and honestly it reflects badly on Kurapica's intelligence for making so many assumptions without any contributory evidence.
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Old 2011-10-12, 13:14   Link #278
Toto y Moi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
I was speaking of the manga which is why I said it wasn't a retcon, because you said Togashi retconned it.
Oh, alright. I assumed you meant the anime because it was what we were discussing prior (plus, you used the character's name "Matthew"--that name is only given to him in the 1999 anime, and not the manga). It hasn't been officially retconned in the manga, but I think that since Kurapika's supernatural hearing hasn't come into play since, that it was likely something Togashi wanted the reader to forget about once Melody entered. But that's nothing official, so as long as we're referring solely to the manga, then what you've said is completely right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Um... not really. Hearing someone's death scream from a distance is kind of different from recognizing people's unique footsteps from across a crowded city square. Melody's hearing would still be several orders of magnitude better, and honestly it reflects badly on Kurapica's intelligence for making so many assumptions without any contributory evidence.
Assumptions? It was deduction--you don't need to hear a scream for that. The question posited obviously didn't have a concrete answer, and the candidate in front of them was never told that he was correct. You don't need to hear a scream to deduce that there's a trick to the quiz--you just have to use the information presented in front of you and think carefully. It was supposed to measure whether or not the candidate could think in an abstract manner, and that's important in this series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Digital animation isn't magic but it does make it easier for them to pinpoint mistakes and them. That's why mistakes are to be expected with hand drawn series.
Both series are hand drawn (the Madhouse version is colored using computers). That Madhouse special clearly shows that the key-frames and inbetweens are drawn onto paper. Computers can help make certain scenes look better in motion--watch the scene of Gon raising his hand and you'll understand why.

But it's not a mistake if an entire episode looks bad. It's simply shoddy animation. The drawing I'm talking about is a key animation frame--think of it as an animation bookend. It wouldn't matter if the inbetween animation looked bad, but the frame is clearly off model. It's something that would benefit from having being drawn again, because I don't consider it to be passable. The problem is, the entire episode in question is drawn poorly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
I never said that Leorio was a bad fighter (which is why I said that he doesn't get in the way) just that he later on gets hit with a case of Can't Catch Up, though that was because fighting isn't where his interests lie.
Spoiler for Killua's family arc:


But he was still caring for his patient, which is why I said what i said. Maybe I should have been more specific I mean that he didn't follow Kurapica and Gon.
You said, verbatim, "Leorio is not a fighter".
Spoiler for HxH Yorknew City:


When treating anyone who has been critically injured, you don't take a detour and leave the patient behind--especially when there's something out there trying to murder him. Even if Leorio was doing it for the sake of his patient, it was an extreme oversight on Nobuaki Kishima's part (the screenwriter of said episode, whom actually creates a lot of inconsistency in his own scripts) to have Leorio do this. Gon and Kurapika had lost the Kiriko at this point--they were running around, trying to find the beast. What if it had returned to the house where it had began? It was a poorly written scene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
That's why I said to remember when the 1999 adaptation came out, because the original manga had only been out since March 1998 when it came out with only three volumes worth of material. So the fillers were to be expected, as there wasn't enough material. But usually people are able to tell the difference between a filler episode and a canon event without having read the original manga. However with the first adaptation it was hard for people to do this unless they had read the manga previously (I've said this to you multiple times, and you yourself admitted to not knowing how it was for people like this or not this was true due to the fact that you actually read the manga before you saw the 1999 adaptation).

I'm not knocking on the new adaptation (even though I'm unsure of the script writer, and the director). When did I ever say that people won't enjoy this new adaptation? I only said that people who have seen the 1999 adaptation will always compare it to the 2011 version, and that you shouldn't be upset about people doing it because it is to be expected. I'm not doing it because I don't care either (if its good its good if its not its not).
When the anime started, six volumes had been published in stores, and another ten chapters at least had been published in Weekly Shonen Jump. Regardless of that, however, I agree that filler material was to be expected--that's not the point I was making. I said that the reason why it was difficult to tell the difference between filler and canon material is because of the significant amount of filler mixed in. Characterization unfortunately followed suit. Gon in the 1999 series is somewhat of a generic "good kid," with many elements of his more mischievous side written out. Gon is also severely more fearful of certain situations in his internal monologue, expressions, and actions. Killua is introduced as one who lacks social skills, contradicting the fact that he's probably the most social out of all the protagonists. There's more, but as I've said, I'll get to those when they're relevant to the current story.

As for the staff, screenwriting is done by a collective--not just one person. The first episode was written by Atsushi Maekawa, but the second by Fumiko Sakai. We still don't know who is writing the third episode, so I feel that it's too early to be skeptical about the staff. The best writer for the 1999 series didn't start writing scripts until several episodes in. I think you should make your grievances with their writing specific. Point out lines, scenes, or anything else that you disliked about that work. And as far as knocking the 2011 version goes, I thought that you were doing so due to the way you phrased that sentence about 'doing better or [going] home"--it sounded like you were implying that the 1999 version was the standard.

But I feel that I should mention that I also didn't say anything regarding you stating "people won't enjoy this new adaptation"--I hope that it wasn't implied. I think that occasionally, we might both be jumping to conclusions with respect to the other's opinion. It might help if we make ourselves clearer through our writing next time. I'd hate to continue on this back-and-forth any longer though--it's taking away from the thread and is unnecessary.
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Old 2011-10-13, 11:46   Link #279
ars89
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How''s the pacing of this one compared to the original? SInce i haven't seen the original i was going to watch it side by side with this, but i don't want to get ahead of the current one and get spoiled about what would happen.
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Old 2011-10-13, 13:25   Link #280
Clarste
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The pacing is much much faster. The first episode of this one covered 3 episodes of the old one.
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