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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 2 Rating
Perfect 10 68 43.04%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 66 41.77%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 13.29%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 1.27%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.63%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-10-11, 22:44   Link #201
Rethice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chibipicpic View Post
So no super awesome Kariya for us. I still love him though.
I'm feeling a lot of love for all of the characters so far actually. I have a tendancy for loving even the most cowardly bad guys if they're well designed characters, and good depth seems like something F/Z has plenty of!

Reserving my judgement for daddy Tohsaka though, haven't learnt much about him, and Lancer's master also hasn't had much of a chance to show his character. Even Waver, as pansy as he is, seems like a well fleshed out character.

I think I may just be over excited because apart from Usagi Drop (which was alright), I haven't enjoyed anything in the last few seasons.
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Old 2011-10-12, 00:25   Link #202
Kaioshin Sama
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Couple of nice surprises this episode. I really liked the Rider in this episode, so manly and gar and it's cool knowing who he actually is already. Kind of stole the franchise for me that I've seen so far and god I hope he has good arc. Also Gilgamesh came across as less of a punk ass pretender (he kind of struck me as a hipster to be honest) and more like a guy you might actually not want to run into in this one compared to the original Fate/Stay Night. I really started to hate that character towards the end cause it felt to me like he was unworthy of having such power cause he basically came off like little more than a cackling jackass who just won battles effortlessly for no good reason. Here he seems to act with more contempt and seems to mean business and it does wonders for the character, especially in that he struck a pretty cool pose that didn't involve a smug grin for a change. That goes a long way.

The conversation in the middle kind of want on pretty long (thankfully not much longer than it did), but it served a purpose in establishing the dynamic between Kiritsgu, Irisviel and Saber and where they differ on certain philosophies. We also got to meet a strange duo in Caster and his master who are much alike in a dangerous way. All in all another solid episode.

Seasons been really good so far and the only disappointments are the things I never had high expectations of in the first place, but there's even been some plesant surprises. I can now confirm this as one of them.
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Old 2011-10-12, 02:02   Link #203
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I'm fond of Rider and Waver. They're the comic relief in such a serious show, and they have a great dynamic (even though Waver just gets dragged along--literally--most of the time with whatever Rider wants to do). I think this first scene with them sets that up nicely.

Caster and Ryuunosuke...just reading about what they do is painful. I am NOT looking forward to seeing more of what they do. At all. And since we know what we're seeing on NicoNico is censored...oh MAN this is gonna be rough.

I think I'm fond of FZ more because of the expansive character interaction. With FSN, we're pretty limited to what we see, and a lot of the plot is hinged on not knowing a ton of key components until they unravel (which is part of the appeal). For instance, even something as small as the Servants' identities. Partially because it almost has to be that way given the original medium of FSN. FZ pretty much tells us who half of the Servants are in the first episode and cycles through all the characters, so something else has to hook us beyond figuring out the mystery. So character interaction becomes more important, characterization becomes more important. And sadly, FZ might be able to do a better job of deepening more characters in the same span of time FSN does a handfull.

...

Ah...don't mind me. I'm a writer and love to analyze the crap out of stuff. Matter of fact...I did write a paper about FSN and how they handled King Arthur and the grail legend. Wish FZ was out at the time...I could have used so much stuff from it...

Speaking of Servant identities...I am SO in love with the ending. I don't know how many times I've watched it because it's so wonderful. They can finally take advantage of the historical aspect of the Servants, and just the nostalgic feel of it is so powerful to me. Especially with Rider and Saber. I've probably watched several dozen anime shows, and none of the regular ending animations moved me this much (I say regular because some shows have had some pretty powerful last episode ending songs/animations). Beautiful.
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Old 2011-10-12, 05:49   Link #204
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As a fact, Kariya HAD potential as a mage, but he abandoned the Matou family aka did not train. Crest worms did not increase his abilities but instead gave him the training to be able to use his potential. If he didnt he would have no way to be able to compete in just 1 year of training.

Remember that Kotomine had 3 years of training (and hes average at best) and he was considered a genious by Kiritsugu after examining his profile.

Waver despite his looks is a very competent mage despite being and a 3erd generation mage (the more generations the more knowledge accumulated since it passes down to the next generation) albeit young, and lacking experience. Think about him as the Rin version in the 4th War. An average mage doesnt comes up with an entire thesis about magic at his age
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Old 2011-10-12, 11:46   Link #205
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Wow, First blood! has been delt

What a huge mistake from Kirei, I bet hes regretting it. But I do understand why he attempted it. Obviously he wants to win himself, thus as being the first master tipped off on the presence of 7 servants. I bet ya his motive was to use assassin and launch a suprise attack on Tokiomi before he was ready and aware. Kirei also knowing and witnessing Tokiumi summoning the hero they both beleive to be the strongest on the field to win the grail. So taking him out early while being unprepared "would" of made his path to victory easier. But luck wasnt on his side it seems.

The failure has costed him, hes defensless. If I undstand the Grail rules correctly, hes going to have to hide around like a hermit and hope to find a servant whos lost its master.

Thats my take on it...

I love the confusion between Kiritsugu and Saber. They were summoning Arthur Pendragon, and they got.... a girl? keke ^_^

Also there was one thing I thought about. Saber says she wants to save Brittian... But in todays world Brittian is fine. In the last century they even fought two crucial wars and survived. I can only think Saber wants to saver her people from her time, which has little point for today. You can say Sabers goal has already been carried out ?

Last edited by Velsy; 2011-10-12 at 12:08.
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Old 2011-10-12, 11:48   Link #206
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Couple of nice surprises this episode. I really liked the Rider in this episode, so manly and gar and it's cool knowing who he actually is already. Kind of stole the franchise for me that I've seen so far and god I hope he has good arc. Also Gilgamesh came across as less of a punk ass pretender (he kind of struck me as a hipster to be honest) and more like a guy you might actually not want to run into in this one compared to the original Fate/Stay Night. I really started to hate that character towards the end cause it felt to me like he was unworthy of having such power cause he basically came off like little more than a cackling jackass who just won battles effortlessly for no good reason. Here he seems to act with more contempt and seems to mean business and it does wonders for the character, especially in that he struck a pretty cool pose that didn't involve a smug grin for a change. That goes a long way.

The conversation in the middle kind of want on pretty long (thankfully not much longer than it did), but it served a purpose in establishing the dynamic between Kiritsgu, Irisviel and Saber and where they differ on certain philosophies. We also got to meet a strange duo in Caster and his master who are much alike in a dangerous way. All in all another solid episode.

Seasons been really good so far and the only disappointments are the things I never had high expectations of in the first place, but there's even been some plesant surprises. I can now confirm this as one of them.
Gil also lost battles for stupid reasons. Hopefully he is more serious here in Fate/zero.
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Old 2011-10-12, 12:10   Link #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geburah View Post
As a fact, Kariya HAD potential as a mage, but he abandoned the Matou family aka did not train. Crest worms did not increase his abilities but instead gave him the training to be able to use his potential. If he didnt he would have no way to be able to compete in just 1 year of training.
Crest Worms do not serve as training. They are expanding using the host flesh and provide prana. They act as magic circuits, that's all.
Quote:
Remember that Kotomine had 3 years of training (and hes average at best) and he was considered a genious by Kiritsugu after examining his profile.
Kotomine was considered as a genius because of his insane tendency at trying all possible magecraft, almost perfecting them within his possibilities. He isn't really a threat as a magus, since he is an executor of the church to begin with (so wasn't part of the Association beforehand and wasn't inheriting any family magic crest etc), but a genius due to the numerous field of knowledge.
Quote:
Waver despite his looks is a very competent mage despite being and a 3erd generation mage (the more generations the more knowledge accumulated since it passes down to the next generation) albeit young, and lacking experience. Think about him as the Rin version in the 4th War. An average mage doesnt comes up with an entire thesis about magic at his age
Waver is average at best: he sure has theories rooted in his mind, but as a Magus, he doesn't have any outstanding magic circuit, nor abilities.
He is by far inferior to Rin.
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Old 2011-10-12, 12:12   Link #208
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That said, average magi can become fearsome opponents by specializing on one single aspect of their magecraft, like Araya Souren with barriers or Shirou himself with projection. Which means magic potential does not really equate battle potential.
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Old 2011-10-12, 12:16   Link #209
Klashikari
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Right: Battle potential would be how a certain ability can be used for battle and how far the magus could master it.
As the LN suggested early in the story (no future events involved): Waver had hardly anything in his sleeve for battles (hence why I included "abilities" in my answer). Whether or not he will be able to gain potential will be shown later.
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Old 2011-10-12, 12:26   Link #210
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Wait, it just clicked with me! Caster said that hsi name is Bluebeard, right? I remeber watching a cartoon about him and I'm totally lost on how exactly he takes the title of a caster. He has never used magic! And as his name suggests, isn't he suppoused to have beard?

Or is there another Bluebeard in literature and history? Going by anime ED it seems to be different person...
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Old 2011-10-12, 12:51   Link #211
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Good episode, although I was hoping to see Kariya a little. Apart from that, I am interested in seeing how Kirei will play his cards. Also, I did not like rider as much as I thought I would, but there remains plenty to be seen. I definitely like how the animation has been consistent for the moment. I am rather worried about the possibility that it could drop in quality as the series goes on, but that is a minor grievance.

@Kitten320, I thought Bluebeard was derived from the French tale, La Barbe Bleue. I cannot think of another instance of a character being called Bluebeard. If it is from the French tale then I think it is safe to say that the writer took some liberties with the character when writing caster.

Last edited by Nixl; 2011-10-12 at 13:02.
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Old 2011-10-12, 12:51   Link #212
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Wait, it just clicked with me! Caster said that hsi name is Bluebeard, right? I remeber watching a cartoon about him and I'm totally lost on how exactly he takes the title of a caster. He has never used magic! And as his name suggests, isn't he suppoused to have beard?

Or is there another Bluebeard in literature and history? Going by anime ED it seems to be different person...
google is your best friend.
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Old 2011-10-12, 15:13   Link #213
kitten320
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I did google it and received the same answer as I was thinking. The real Bluebeard was not a magician. He was a psycho though, but he used cold weapon for killing not magic =/
So I can't figure out as on what makes him a caster.
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Old 2011-10-12, 15:14   Link #214
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Couple of nice surprises this episode. I really liked the Rider in this episode, so manly and gar and it's cool knowing who he actually is already. Kind of stole the franchise for me that I've seen so far and god I hope he has good arc. Also Gilgamesh came across as less of a punk ass pretender (he kind of struck me as a hipster to be honest) and more like a guy you might actually not want to run into in this one compared to the original Fate/Stay Night. I really started to hate that character towards the end cause it felt to me like he was unworthy of having such power cause he basically came off like little more than a cackling jackass who just won battles effortlessly for no good reason. Here he seems to act with more contempt and seems to mean business and it does wonders for the character, especially in that he struck a pretty cool pose that didn't involve a smug grin for a change. That goes a long way.
Uh, if you've experienced F/SN you should know there's sort of a plot reason as to why Gilgamesh is more prone to cackling and grinning in it than here in F/Z. But that's all I can say in this topic.

And I don't see how his victory against Assassin in this episode was any less of an effortless win for no good reason... other than him being overpowered, which is the case for both prequel and sequel.

As for him feeling more of a guy you don't wanna run into here, I'd say that that's less due to any possible difference in his character and more due to it being Fate/Zero, which has a much more tense fight to the death atmosphere than F/SN ever did.
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Old 2011-10-12, 15:15   Link #215
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I did google it and received the same answer as I was thinking. The real Bluebeard was not a magician. He was a psycho though, but he used cold weapon for killing not magic =/
So I can't figure out as on what makes him a caster.
he was accuse of practicing witchcraft.
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Old 2011-10-12, 15:16   Link #216
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"Was he? Because he definetly was killed by two brothers.
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Old 2011-10-12, 15:17   Link #217
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"Was he? Because he definetly was killed by two brothers.
google the person bluebeard is base on, not the story itself
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Old 2011-10-12, 15:19   Link #218
fertygo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
I did google it and received the same answer as I was thinking. The real Bluebeard was not a magician. He was a psycho though, but he used cold weapon for killing not magic =/
So I can't figure out as on what makes him a caster.
Well some stories saying he's interested in that kind of stuff, killing due to his crazy beliefs, people starting to believe he's some kind of shaman etc..

Its not that weird to see him as caster.
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Old 2011-10-12, 15:19   Link #219
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Uh, if you've experienced F/SN you should know there's sort of a plot reason as to why Gilgamesh is more prone to cackling and grinning in it than here in F/Z. But that's all I can say in this topic.

And I don't see how his victory against Assassin in this episode was any less of an effortless win for no good reason... other than him being overpowered, which is the case for both prequel and sequel.

As for him feeling more of a guy you don't wanna run into here, I'd say that that's less due to any possible difference in his character and more due to it being Fate/Zero, which has a much more tense fight to the death atmosphere than F/SN ever did.
It comes down to more portrayal than anything. I never said it wasn't effortless, it's just how he handled his victory speech that I liked more. No cackling and acting like an insane jackass, just, "hey buddy, did you really think you could be me?" *grimace*
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Old 2011-10-12, 21:12   Link #220
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
It comes down to more portrayal than anything. I never said it wasn't effortless, it's just how he handled his victory speech that I liked more. No cackling and acting like an insane jackass, just, "hey buddy, did you really think you could be me?" *grimace*
I donno, he did seem to come out as bit of a jackass/arrogant though using terms like "Worms should face the ground when they die" etc. However, that's the charm of his character
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