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Old 2011-10-12, 18:28   Link #3141
Micchi
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Picks: 2-0 (8-0, 74-62)
Predictions: 2-0 (7-1, 104-32)

Nothing to see here, moving along.

Picks: Charlotte, Shirayuki
Predictions: Sayaka, Shirayuki

The only reason Sayaka is doing so well is because she's from Madoka. If she was from any other series, she would be out by now. When will people vote for characters and not for series? I find it hard to believe that all the puella magi have equal support when they all have different appeals. Best of luck to Charlotte.
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Old 2011-10-12, 18:49   Link #3142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micchi View Post
Picks: 2-0 (8-0, 74-62)
Predictions: 2-0 (7-1, 104-32)

Nothing to see here, moving along.

Picks: Charlotte, Shirayuki
Predictions: Sayaka, Shirayuki

The only reason Sayaka is doing so well is because she's from Madoka. If she was from any other series, she would be out by now. When will people vote for characters and not for series? I find it hard to believe that all the puella magi have equal support when they all have different appeals. Best of luck to Charlotte.
Ah this makes me miss the saimoe 2002-2005 era ;-;
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Old 2011-10-12, 19:38   Link #3143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micchi View Post

The only reason Sayaka is doing so well is because she's from Madoka. If she was from any other series, she would be out by now.
Oh really? And why do you say that, exactly?

Sayaka has a very moe character design, and spends the first few episodes as a classic genki girl, which many people find moe. That's a big part of why I like her. I also felt that her seiyu did a wonderful job with her character, bringing out the character's energy, passion, and playfulness.

It's not like Sayaka is a minor character either. We're not talking about Shiina or Iwasawa in ISML here. Sayaka arguably carried the middle portion (a full half) of Madoka Magica, and played a central role in the plot.


I'm really getting tired of the Sayaka hate on this board. Why is it so hard for people here to accept that a lot of J-SaiMoe voters like her? She's a perfectly fine and well-developed character with a lot of admirable character traits (very protective of her friends and loved ones, sincerely wants to do the right thing, very fun-loving and playful in the very first scene she's in, etc...), and she gets a lot of undeserved hate on Anime Suki, imo.
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Old 2011-10-12, 19:47   Link #3144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micchi View Post
Picks: 2-0 (8-0, 74-62)
The only reason Sayaka is doing so well is because she's from Madoka. If she was from any other series, she would be out by now. When will people vote for characters and not for series? I find it hard to believe that all the puella magi have equal support when they all have different appeals. Best of luck to Charlotte.
It's arguable. I've been honestly voting Sayaka thus far because I don't have fondness for who she's up against. She's even my least favorite meguca. Same for Mami, Madoka, and Homura (although she lost). I actually voted against Kyouko for Ritsu in the beginning...

Maybe you should blame the competition Or maybe even the brackets. Luck of the draw.
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Old 2011-10-12, 19:55   Link #3145
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The "Series Domination" argument against PMMM really doesn't wash with me.

All five girls are important characters. None are what I would call a minor character. Along with Kyubey, they make up the six most important characters of the show.

It would be kind of comparable to the five "inner senshi" of Sailor Moon all dominating a moe contest if this was sometime in the 90s.

"Series Domination" is only a problem, imo, when it lets minor characters beat out strong major characters from other shows. If Hitomi was doing really well in this, then I'd get the criticism. As is, I really don't see the issue. PMMM is much more of an ensemble production than just about Madoka herself, really.
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Old 2011-10-12, 20:11   Link #3146
SuzushinaYuriko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Oh really? And why do you say that, exactly?

Sayaka has a very moe character design, and spends the first few episodes as a classic genki girl, which many people find moe. That's a big part of why I like her. I also felt that her seiyu did a wonderful job with her character, bringing out the character's energy, passion, and playfulness.

It's not like Sayaka is a minor character either. We're not talking about Shiina or Iwasawa in ISML here. Sayaka arguably carried the middle portion (a full half) of Madoka Magica, and played a central role in the plot.

I'm really getting tired of the Sayaka hate on this board. Why is it so hard for people here to accept that a lot of J-SaiMoe voters like her? She's a perfectly fine and well-developed character with a lot of admirable character traits (very protective of her friends and loved ones, sincerely wants to do the right thing, very fun-loving and playful in the very first scene she's in, etc...), and she gets a lot of undeserved hate on Anime Suki, imo.
Sheesh, no need to get so defensive.

I'm supporting Charlotte because I like her better than Sayaka (who I found a little too self-righteous sometimes, almost to the point of obnoxiousness).

Nobody said that she wasn't a main character. Sayaka is a prominent character in her own right, and her flaws are an important part of her role in the story. Charlotte just appeals to me more as a sweet all-loving dere type, though, so my vote (if the stupid generator gives it to me) goes to her.
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Old 2011-10-12, 20:36   Link #3147
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Didn't some cake get into first round. It didn't necessarily win there, but a lot of moe girls were shut out from the tournament completely.
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Old 2011-10-12, 20:54   Link #3148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka View Post
Sheesh, no need to get so defensive.
It's not a matter of being "defensive". It's a matter of giving voice to the opposite (and less heard) perspective.


Quote:

I'm supporting Charlotte because I like her better than Sayaka (who I found a little too self-righteous sometimes, almost to the point of obnoxiousness).
People have character preferences, and that's fine. I didn't say what I did to campaign for Sayaka, just to argue that it doesn't do justice to her character to say that simply being a PMMM character is why she is where she is right now in J-SaiMoe.

If she wasn't an important and well-liked character in her own right, she would not be where she is right now, imo.
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Old 2011-10-12, 21:18   Link #3149
Micchi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Oh really? And why do you say that, exactly?
First of all, I'm not a Sayaka hater, so don't be too defensive, Sayaka lovers I just don't particularly care for her in the series or as a standalone character. However, if she is up against someone who ranks lower on my moe list, then I will vote for her regardless of whatever series she is from.

The thing is what Triple_R has to say about Sayaka can be equally applied to most characters. They have their own appeals and also characteristics that people may not like. Do I think Sayaka is a nice genki type char (a trait that I myself find moe)? Yes. Do I think she's the best character I've seen of that type? No, but that's my personal opinion.

My main qualm is with popular series like Madoka (also K-ON, Nanoha, Rozen Maiden, etc) is that because of their exposure all their main chars are pretty much ensured their way into round 2 or round 3 (barring the luck of the draw) and even some of their side chars. Meanwhile, lesser known characters/series who are just as equally moe if not more get curbstomped in the 1st round or not even make the draw. Could it be because of lack of exposure?

Let's put it this way: If you had to vote between a side char from a popular series and a main heroine in a lesser known series, which would you choose? Would you look up on a lesser known character to see if she's the type that you would like? The sad thing is most people won't: to them, it's just a name from a series they haven't watched. So major series like Madoka get boosted votes and minor series suffer as a result. That's why I believe that popular series have an unfair advantage. Sayaka can gather a couple hundred of votes handily, but those extra votes on top because she's from Madoka and getting Madoka faction votes too can be the clincher in a tight match.

But I guess this is only one piece of the puzzle. Saimoe is much much more. It's serious business after all. (See: Saki)

And yeah, I blame the luck of the draw. It's not nice when your fav chars are all out by R2.
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Old 2011-10-12, 22:00   Link #3150
Ichuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micchi View Post
First of all, I'm not a Sayaka hater, so don't be too defensive, Sayaka lovers I just don't particularly care for her in the series or as a standalone character. However, if she is up against someone who ranks lower on my moe list, then I will vote for her regardless of whatever series she is from.

The thing is what Triple_R has to say about Sayaka can be equally applied to most characters. They have their own appeals and also characteristics that people may not like. Do I think Sayaka is a nice genki type char (a trait that I myself find moe)? Yes. Do I think she's the best character I've seen of that type? No, but that's my personal opinion.

My main qualm is with popular series like Madoka (also K-ON, Nanoha, Rozen Maiden, etc) is that because of their exposure all their main chars are pretty much ensured their way into round 2 or round 3 (barring the luck of the draw) and even some of their side chars. Meanwhile, lesser known characters/series who are just as equally moe if not more get curbstomped in the 1st round or not even make the draw. Could it be because of lack of exposure?

Let's put it this way: If you had to vote between a side char from a popular series and a main heroine in a lesser known series, which would you choose? Would you look up on a lesser known character to see if she's the type that you would like? The sad thing is most people won't: to them, it's just a name from a series they haven't watched. So major series like Madoka get boosted votes and minor series suffer as a result. That's why I believe that popular series have an unfair advantage. Sayaka can gather a couple hundred of votes handily, but those extra votes on top because she's from Madoka and getting Madoka faction votes too can be the clincher in a tight match.

But I guess this is only one piece of the puzzle. Saimoe is much much more. It's serious business after all. (See: Saki)

And yeah, I blame the luck of the draw. It's not nice when your fav chars are all out by R2.
I think it is more like the voters are more biased than lack exposure because most of the series on Saimoe are big in Japan because to me I feel like they anti vote the lesser known ones because it isn't mainstream like Steins;Gate, Madoka, Raildex, etc
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Old 2011-10-12, 22:18   Link #3151
Coldlight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverFunk View Post
Not gonna lie, one of my favorites during the series.
If she was one of your favorites back then, why take it out on her now and not some other character from Madoka who you didn't like? Is it because she looks the easiest of the Puella Magi to take out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OverFunk View Post
Didn't some cake get into first round. It didn't necessarily win there, but a lot of moe girls were shut out from the tournament completely.
The same goes for Ohana's grandma.

--

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micchi View Post
The only reason Sayaka is doing so well is because she's from Madoka. If she was from any other series, she would be out by now. When will people vote for characters and not for series?
I beg to differ. I for one voted for her (yes, I voted in this round) because I like her and not because of her series. Just because there's barely a handful of us Sayaka supporters in here doesn't mean she's only got a few supporters in Japan as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micchi View Post
Let's put it this way: If you had to vote between a side char from a popular series
You may not be a Sayaka hater, but where does Sayaka come in to this? She isn't by any means a side character, and I argue that she's a main character just as much as Charlotte from IS is, if not more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micchi View Post
and a main heroine in a lesser known series
Infinite Stratos isn't exactly an obscure series either, if you were trying to apply this to today's match.

--

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
From her witch's realm, she stabs at thee, King Charles!
Spoiler for DC/Marvel comics style Sayaka pic:

Go Sayaka Go!!!
Looks good, and one that I haven't seen yet either. Saved.

Spoiler for we'll never surrender, get ready:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Sayaka has a very moe character design, and spends the first few episodes as a classic genki girl, which many people find moe. That's a big part of why I like her. I also felt that her seiyu did a wonderful job with her character, bringing out the character's energy, passion, and playfulness.
You nailed the reasons why I also like her so much. Add to that the underdog charm she has, she's always the underdog whenever comparisons with the other Puella Magi come up, and people here almost always pick on her.

--

There is a fake vote spike for both Charlotte and Yuuko now.
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Old 2011-10-12, 22:33   Link #3152
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that spike is great.
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Old 2011-10-12, 22:50   Link #3153
Micchi
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Maybe my wording wasn't great. The point isn't that no one likes Sayaka. She has many ardent followers and it's good to see that. The point is that she can sure muster a few hundred votes due to her character traits, but being from a major series (yes, IS is in this group too) boosts the vote totals even more, which is a problem when you're facing a lesser known series. No, I'm not referring to this match in particular.

Actually, forget about Sayaka all together. Let's say, if it was Uiharu from Railgun vs Sakura from Jewel Pet. Railgun is a more popular series than Jewel Pet and will probably get more votes just because of name recognition, which means Uiharu will probably win that match. Oh wait, she did.
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Old 2011-10-12, 23:15   Link #3154
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Yesterday's Results:

Elucia de Lute Ima - 295
Run - 241

Yuzurizaki Nero - 154
Ika Musume - 390

Nice try Run but is isn't enough. Elsie manages to survive to face Madoka. A big win there by Ika Musume. She manages to clear 70% of the votes. Yuno has a lot of work to do if she wants to try to challenge Ika Musume for D block champion.

Today's matches

Miki Sayaka vs Charlotte Dunois
Yuuko vs Hotogi Shirayuki

Puella Magi aren't invncible. It's not going to be easy, but I think Charlotte has a chance to beat Sayaka. She'll have to be more like the Charlotte that beat Erio than the Charlotte that let Minami get close to her. She also has to hope Sayaka doesn't do as well as she did in Round 2 now that she doesn't share a match day with Mami. I don't quite think she'll pull it off, though. I think Sayaka will still be the one that pulls through. Whoever wins will likely be the winner of D Block. Yuuko and Shirayuki both turned out to be much stronger than I originally thought they would be. I didn't think either would get this far. I think they are actually pretty close together in strength. Shirayuki looked a bit stronger so I'll side with her.

Votes:
Charlotte Dunois
Hotogi Shirayuki

Predictions:
Miki Sayaka
Hotogi Shirayuki
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Old 2011-10-13, 01:51   Link #3155
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micchi View Post
The thing is what Triple_R has to say about Sayaka can be equally applied to most characters.
Maybe 80% of what I wrote about Sayaka can be applied to a lot of anime girls, but I don't think all of it can. However, to stop this thread from going too off on a tangent, I'll explain my reasoning to you in PMs.


Quote:
They have their own appeals and also characteristics that people may not like. Do I think Sayaka is a nice genki type char (a trait that I myself find moe)? Yes. Do I think she's the best character I've seen of that type? No, but that's my personal opinion.
My favorite genki girl is probably Haruhi Suzumiya, actually, but Sayaka is well up there for me.


Quote:
My main qualm is with popular series like Madoka (also K-ON, Nanoha, Rozen Maiden, etc) is that because of their exposure all their main chars are pretty much ensured their way into round 2 or round 3 (barring the luck of the draw) and even some of their side chars. Meanwhile, lesser known characters/series who are just as equally moe if not more get curbstomped in the 1st round or not even make the draw. Could it be because of lack of exposure?
I do understand your complaint here. And yes, I do think lack of exposure is a factor.

One consolation you can take, though, is that it cuts both ways. Characters that get a "faction" boost due to being from a popular show are also more likely to get sniped at by opposing factions.


Quote:
It's not nice when your fav chars are all out by R2.
True. I sincerely hope that at least one or more of the girls remaining can appeal to you enough to make you care about J-SaiMoe going forward.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldlight View Post
Looks good, and one that I haven't seen yet either. Saved.
Glad to help! Your own pic is one I haven't seen, so it looks like we've improved one another's collection of pics.
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Old 2011-10-13, 03:22   Link #3156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It would be kind of comparable to the five "inner senshi" of Sailor Moon all dominating a moe contest if this was sometime in the 90s.
Oh, how I could imagine a Sailor Moon-Evagelion War back then had Saimoe existed.

As for a "series domination". What do you expect? Good series get large numbers. And it doesn't matter if its characters are "major" vs "minor". They'll get their respective numbers. It's always been this way.
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Old 2011-10-13, 05:20   Link #3157
OverFunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldlight View Post
If she was one of your favorites back then, why take it out on her now and not some other character from Madoka who you didn't like? Is it because she looks the easiest of the Puella Magi to take out?
They all need to go, I can't make exceptions. For the good of Saimoe. It's bad when entering 6 characters nets you 4 places in the top 16.

Back then Saki was insulting because sheer numbers, but they still dropped like flies in latter rounds. This ain't happening here.
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Old 2011-10-13, 07:59   Link #3158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverFunk View Post
They all need to go, I can't make exceptions. For the good of Saimoe. It's bad when entering 6 characters nets you 4 places in the top 16.
Why exactly is this bad? You don't think it's possible for four extremely moe and likable girls to all be located in one series?

Personally, I find just about the entire cast of K-On!! likable and moe. Much the same would be true of my four favorite Clannad girls. And yes, I'd say the same about the puella magis of Madoka Magica.
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Old 2011-10-13, 08:06   Link #3159
ahelo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
The "Series Domination" argument against PMMM really doesn't wash with me.

All five girls are important characters. None are what I would call a minor character. Along with Kyubey, they make up the six most important characters of the show.

It would be kind of comparable to the five "inner senshi" of Sailor Moon all dominating a moe contest if this was sometime in the 90s.

"Series Domination" is only a problem, imo, when it lets minor characters beat out strong major characters from other shows. If Hitomi was doing really well in this, then I'd get the criticism. As is, I really don't see the issue. PMMM is much more of an ensemble production than just about Madoka herself, really.
As much as I do agree that Sayaka is a well developed MC, Madoka Magica is definitely riding on series domination. They're so powerful that characters like Sayaka which admittedly is not PMMM's ace, looks like one. That would just mean Madoka is untochouble (but then Homura is also supposedly untouchable soo). . .
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Old 2011-10-13, 08:11   Link #3160
Shmion
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Similar dominance?

Rozen Maiden 2005: 7 characters -> 4 of top 16 -> 2 of top 8 -> runner-up
Clannad 2008: 9 characters -> 4 of top 16 -> 3 of top 8 -> semi-finalist
Saki 2009: 23 characters -> 6 of top 16 -> 4 of top 8 -> 2 semi-finalists
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