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Old 2011-10-12, 18:34   Link #1101
Tokkan
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The complaints about MP simply existing in ME3 make me ROFLMAO hard. I really don't get why simply adding a MP mode ruins anything. So long as the thing doesn't feel tacked on and makes enough sense in terms of the franchise I'm okay with it. At the very least, the fact it's co-op makes me very happy.

And guys, the MP is being developed by a separate team off in a separate studio in a different city anyway so any assumption that it's taking away development of the single player is entirely false.
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Old 2011-10-12, 20:06   Link #1102
Alchemist007
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And guys, the MP is being developed by a separate team off in a separate studio in a different city anyway so any assumption that it's taking away development of the single player is entirely false.
Well that's not entirely plausible. If it was, the game wouldn't be cohesive (lack of communication between sites) especially considering that it can affect campaign outcomes.

Well maybe I'm just paranoid because the excuse "we have separate teams" just sounds fishy to me.
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Old 2011-10-12, 23:37   Link #1103
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
Well that's not entirely plausible. If it was, the game wouldn't be cohesive (lack of communication between sites) especially considering that it can affect campaign outcomes.

Well maybe I'm just paranoid because the excuse "we have separate teams" just sounds fishy to me.
From what I heard, Bioware Montreal (the studio making the MP) did work on Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2, but only in the creation of the various side missions, with the meat of the game being worked on by the Edmonton studio. Both the Edmonton and Montreal studios now have enough manpower after all these years that the latter can be assigned a separate (if related) project for Mass Effect 3, hence, multiplayer.

Also, we live in an age where you can get to anywhere within a day, and talk to each other on the other side of the world. How would there be "lack of communication" between sites? Only way communication would become a problem is if any office politics and work issues come to play.
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Old 2011-10-12, 23:54   Link #1104
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It's more likely than you think. But it's not really worth speculating.
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Old 2011-10-13, 00:03   Link #1105
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Well, if we want to talk about a recent example, the boss fights in Deus Ex:HR were outsourced to another company, and they are generally considered to be the low point of the game. The problem with having two teams is that the overall "vision" may not be the same, unless there is a Project Manager overseeing both teams consistently and diligently.

Cheers.
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Old 2011-10-13, 02:19   Link #1106
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I thought Casey Hudson oversaw both projects though.
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Old 2011-10-13, 04:10   Link #1107
Keroko
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Well that's not entirely plausible. If it was, the game wouldn't be cohesive (lack of communication between sites) especially considering that it can affect campaign outcomes.
That's why the industry has directors and producers. They are the link between various production offices, ranging from art, sound, animation, encoding to entire different buildings. Always have been.

Perhaps an illustration of what I'm talking about would help describe producers in a nutshell.
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Old 2011-10-13, 04:57   Link #1108
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You do realize you would have paid the same standard retail price for the game even if they didn't put in multiplayer, right? Virtually all new releases start with the usual $60,- price tag. Both former Mass Effect games did, and they didn't even have multiplayer.

Hell, looking back on what I just wrote, it means they're giving you multiplayer for free.
That is totally not what I meant. MP will take away from what would normally be used for design tweaks for the actual SP game. Nobody has an unlimited budget, and SP will suffer for it no matter what the marketing team/Casey tells you. Nothing is for free, especially with Bioware/EA and their cutitoutofthegameandsellitasdlc policy.
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Old 2011-10-13, 05:10   Link #1109
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It's sad. It's as if Valve's the only one on the side of good.
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Old 2011-10-13, 05:32   Link #1110
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That is totally not what I meant. MP will take away from what would normally be used for design tweaks for the actual SP game. Nobody has an unlimited budget, and SP will suffer for it no matter what the marketing team/Casey tells you. Nothing is for free, especially with Bioware/EA and their cutitoutofthegameandsellitasdlc policy.
That's less about the actual budget though and more of the actual work that's actually done. Some companies can have all the budget and time and still bungle a game (ex. DNF). A competent company can do more with less, give or take a few rough patches here and there.

Also, as to Bioware/EA's DLC policy, I don't think it's a 'we have content, let's cut it out as DLC', and more 'we can get the game out right now with this much content, then we'll finish the non-essentials later'. The fact that the Day-1 DLC for ME2 was all free kinda makes me lean towards the latter. Also, it's not the first time game companies have content cut out of the final game (stuff like unused game assets are a part of every game), but now the DLC model allows them to make use of said content instead of of being unrealized ideas.

Honestly, while I myself wasn't too enthusiastic about MP in Mass Effect in general, the type of arguments used against it in the face of recent information looks to be less cautious skepticism and more fearmongering and outright "it can't work!" attitude.
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Old 2011-10-13, 05:47   Link #1111
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It's funny, because before the days of DLC the content that's now available for DLC would have simply been cut from the game and never even heard from.

For example, KotoR II had an entire planet cut out and several quests ending in loose threads or not even being included at all (the HK-50 quest was cut for example, and did you know there was a surviving Jedi living in the Academy of Dantooine? Or that the Jedi master on Korriban was originally alive?) all due to deadline constraints. We never got to see this content, and fans had to create a fanbased project to bring them to life. With DLC, we can get to see this content. But instead of the effort being appreciated, companies are automatically accused of cutting things from the game for DLC. Yes, there are times when this is the case, but the times where it was "done for DLC" are vastly outnumbered by the cases where it's simply done because of deadlines.

I wasn't too enthusiastic about MP either, and I'm still only cautiously optimistic, but frankly? All the complaints I've heard so far are just the usual gamers jumping to conclusions and whining about it just to whine.
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Old 2011-10-13, 08:34   Link #1112
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That's less about the actual budget though and more of the actual work that's actually done. Some companies can have all the budget and time and still bungle a game (ex. DNF). A competent company can do more with less, give or take a few rough patches here and there.

Also, as to Bioware/EA's DLC policy, I don't think it's a 'we have content, let's cut it out as DLC', and more 'we can get the game out right now with this much content, then we'll finish the non-essentials later'. The fact that the Day-1 DLC for ME2 was all free kinda makes me lean towards the latter. Also, it's not the first time game companies have content cut out of the final game (stuff like unused game assets are a part of every game), but now the DLC model allows them to make use of said content instead of of being unrealized ideas.

Honestly, while I myself wasn't too enthusiastic about MP in Mass Effect in general, the type of arguments used against it in the face of recent information looks to be less cautious skepticism and more fearmongering and outright "it can't work!" attitude.
You are forgetting that making games is just business, not a charity organization. A game, and it's possible premeditated DLCs, get a greedy budget and segmentation plan based on pre-calculated ROI estimates, and then the producers/devs have to make the best of their resources - even cut content and segment it further if the original plan goes overboard, or if they are behind schedule (which they frequently are *cough* mostly lies to put less into the game*cough*). But that is cool, right, because if the game gets MP, then there is naturally a bigger primal budget involved? Not likely. The devs have been pretty clear with how they strive to get COD sells; the over simplification, general lack of a compelling storyline and character progression in ME2 indicate exactly that. I'm not even going to comment how overpriced the DLC are for what they actually offer. But maybe you would like it be more like "just frag that guy over there and profit", how should I know? For me, personally, they are totally selling out. It's not like only the gaming industry is doing this, anyway, everyone is looking for a perfect harmony of how to offer less quality and not piss off consumers in the process.

So yeah, I whine, I'm worried and pissed off, but I'm still gonna buy it - cuz I'm a brainwashed and addicted consumer who can't help herself of knowing what will happen next. I hate myself for that, a little. Or maybe I'll just pirate it out of spite, depends on the reviews.

How I miss the old days where you got a whole expansion pack that offered hours of gameplay - all for a reasonable price.
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Old 2011-10-13, 08:54   Link #1113
Keroko
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You are forgetting that making games is just business, not a charity organization. A game, and it's possible premeditated DLCs, get a greedy budget and segmentation plan based on pre-calculated ROI estimates, and then the producers/devs have to make the best of their resources - even cut content and segment it further if the original plan goes overboard, or if they are behind schedule (which they frequently are *cough* mostly lies to put less into the game*cough*). But that is cool, right, because if the game gets MP, then there is naturally a bigger primal budget involved? Not likely. The devs have been pretty clear with how they strive to get COD sells; the over simplification, general lack of a compelling storyline and character progression in ME2 indicate exactly that.
And you ignore that Mass Effect already has a lot of core development concept done. Many models and engine codes are already in the game, which takes away from development cost. The advantage of making a sequel.

Two can play the guessing game.

And a general lack of a compelling storyline? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously here if you're stating such a subjective opinion as fact.
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Old 2011-10-13, 10:54   Link #1114
Irkalla
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And you ignore that Mass Effect already has a lot of core development concept done. Many models and engine codes are already in the game, which takes away from development cost. The advantage of making a sequel.

Two can play the guessing game.

And a general lack of a compelling storyline? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously here if you're stating such a subjective opinion as fact.
Mass Effect uses Unreal Engine 3, it's not like Bioware made it from scratch - unlike the Eclipse one for Dragon Age. But more importantly, you have just stated exactly what I'm pissed off here about. Bioware reuses their textures, models and animations all the time to cut corners..I can't and don't even want to imagine what having a MP means. I expect more of recycled stuff than ever because of it, and we all know how fun that was in DA2!


Well, then don't? Simple as that The only good thing about ME2 was that I got to work for Cerberus. The Collectors and Human Reaper plot was just strung out of somebody's ass. Also, opinions are like testicles!
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Old 2011-10-21, 01:20   Link #1115
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PC IGN: Mass Effect 3 Demo Out In January

It'll be both an SP and MP demo, with BF3 owners having early access
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Old 2011-11-04, 22:08   Link #1116
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Mass Effect 3 beta accidentally leaked on XBOX Live for a short bit. Neogaf has a tonne of screenies, especially of a certain krogan with Shephard.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451016
Spoiler for A certain krogan:

Spoiler for Multiplayer choices:
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Old 2011-11-05, 05:27   Link #1117
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One of the more interesting reveals on that leaked beta is the presence of preset campaign options it seems:



Quote:
"Action Mode: For those who want to emphasize action and combat and minimize story management. Action mode will set automatic replies in conversation and a normal difficulty.

Story Mode: For those who want to emphasize story immersion and minimize combat pressure. Story mode will set manually-selectable replies in conversation and a minimal combat difficulty.

RPG Mode: For those who want to explore both realms of story and combat. RPG mode will set manually-selectable replies in conversation and a normal combat difficulty."
Note that those are presets, and that you can still manually tweak each of the options from the above before you get into the game as shown below:



That 'Hide Helmet' option... does that mean there'll be armor sets like in ME2 where you can hide the helmets?
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Old 2011-11-05, 07:12   Link #1118
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I don't really understand those modes, but I will play on nearly the highest difficulty with full story engagement.
Also I've seen vids of leaked footage, good thing now that you have auto-restore shield but health doesn't regenerate itself fully (only to have full bars out of maximum 5 i.e if you have left 2.1 bars left you regenerate only to 3 bars not to 5), as in ME2 both health and shields regenerated.
Still wondering about comrades armour customization .

The skills system has ME 1 feel. But I don't know whether the choices (impact damage vs radius/duration will have significant difference)
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Old 2011-11-05, 07:29   Link #1119
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I don't really understand those modes, but I will play on nearly the highest difficulty with full story engagement.
More options can never be too bad. You have Action Mode for people who want to see the 'default' story, you have Story Mode for people who don't want difficulty in battle, and RPG mode for those who want the best of both. Then you can tweak each individual setting within those presets as you wished. Everybody wins

Quote:
Also I've seen vids of leaked footage, good thing now that you have auto-restore shield but health doesn't regenerate itself fully (only to have full bars out of maximum 5 i.e if you have left 2.1 bars left you regenerate only to 3 bars not to 5), as in ME2 both health and shields regenerated.
Well, some of the leak vids do show that medigel is back. I think you use medigel in order to fully regenerate your health, asides from the segmented regeneration as you mentioned.

Quote:
The skills system has ME 1 feel. But I don't know whether the choices (impact damage vs radius/duration will have significant difference)
At the least, it's a hell of a lot more customization than ME2 had, since not only can you change the kind of skill, but each individual parameter within the skill as well. As to the impact each choices have, I'd imagine they'd make it so that the changes are significant enough due to how few levels there are.
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Old 2011-11-05, 08:14   Link #1120
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At the least, it's a hell of a lot more customization than ME2 had, since not only can you change the kind of skill, but each individual parameter within the skill as well. As to the impact each choices have, I'd imagine they'd make it so that the changes are significant enough due to how few levels there are.
You mean that in ME2 you only had a choice when you spent last point on the skill, whereas here you can choose the path skill progression as you want?

Quote:
Well, some of the leak vids do show that medigel is back. I think you use medigel in order to fully regenerate your health, asides from the segmented regeneration as you mentioned.
Agreed, I also saw medigel as well as resources and heavy weapon ammo. I wonder how will fallen comrades be revived, thru medigel too?
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