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Old 2011-10-15, 19:30   Link #21
Frenchie
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Hey gais!

What an interesting thread.

The quality of Bleach releases has yet to stop me from reading the manga. I would say, however, that I derive very little enjoyment from reading them. I suppose part of the reason why, as some people already mentioned, is access. It is ridiculously easy to read a Naruto chapter and then click on the hotlink below to go through Bleach.

I also have to point out that thanks to the very minimalistic approach when it comes to actual dialogue, Bleach probably takes me 3 minutes to read. If that. So in terms of waste of time per week, it essentially doesn't amount to much.

I suppose it would be interesting, however, to find out what drove me out of the forums for so long. Most likely a mixture of things, including a deep embedded hate for the FKT arc and the way it was handled (With the Arrancar curb-stomped into Oblivion and no deceitful love from the Vaizard, whom I expected to turn on their Shinigami counterparts. Forgive and forget they say, well, not me).

Another effect of the appalling quality and my disappointment with the handling of Bleach characters (Most notably Ishida becoming comic relief in his interaction with Mayuri, of all people. (Yeah no worries, I forgive you for dissecting my granddad and enjoying it!) has probably been me dropping the Bleach anime series altogether. (Which is, contrary to the manga, a huge waste of time at roughly 20 mins)

I think that's about it.. I don't know what can really force me out of the measly 3 mins of interaction I hold with Bleach every week, but I'm sure Kubo will surprise me.
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Old 2011-10-15, 20:36   Link #22
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
...like?
Like killing alot of the cast and I mean alot.

It can be slightly hard to think of something sometimes, when that something happens you just know it's gone too far and you give up but you wouldn't know till it happened.

or maybe giving some of the captains some truly suck ass bankai's and I mean truly suck ass ones.
Ukitake and Shunsui are the two, I most look forward to but I get the feeling we may be let down in end but saying that I think it's a fair bet that we probably won't get to see these any time soon and most likely towards the end of the series.

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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
Even if the things you come up with are extremely unlikely to happen, I do encourage you and (others of you who feel similarly) to share anyways if you can. It's partially what I'd hope would make this topic more interesting (or funny even).
The unlikely things that could happen could be anything one's mind can conjure up which is anything from the mundane to the absolute absurd.

For instance I am one with a fascination for traps and we haven't really had one in this series, so maybe if something like a cliche cho kawaii Idol called Nyan-chan~ showing up and proclaiming a love for Ichigo and that "she" is his fiancee.
Reasons unknown to Ichigo he rejects "her" but in fact does want to marry "her"
We then get a bunch of chapters telling the story of how a "female" Idol and tsundere highschool boy get together.

After they marry, Ichigo decides to go to Mr Hat and Clogs and asks him to put his soul into a female gi~whatever you call em so that he....eh she and "her" can have a famliy of 2 girls and 1 boy.

Years later after living a happy family life, a old acquaintance shows up....

Dun dun dun, iiiiit's Aizen!

He's a little taken aback about whats happened to Ichigo but instead of getting revenge by killing him he decideds to woooo "her" instead.

We then get a tale of adultery and Netorare, as Ichigo succumbs to the charms of Aizen.

Thats when Nyan-chan~ catches "her" wife with Aizen in bed and so the following insues

Spoiler:


The end~

see, do you really want to know what some people think?
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Old 2011-10-15, 20:57   Link #23
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
Call me dense, but just who is that again?
You're not denseAt least not always...JOKING JOKING. I couldn't resist that I have never said who it was

Oi? Where did you get that avatar? Did you make it?

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Ah, but then my suspected series ending is to be your dropping point? That's what I call tactical trolling. Keep'm till the end, good on ya KT!
I honestly believe that even if he intended on an IchiHime ending. (something I strongly doubt in the first place) he cannot now, because fans dropped Bleach like hotcakes as soon as Rukia was gone and Ichigo and Orihime had actual conversations. Sales would drop because IchiRuki ship is a cash cow.

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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I almost find that hard to believe.
Why is that? Believe it or not, I don't have an emotional investment in the winner.

You have no idea why I ship IchiRuki...

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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I think if it does happen it will be as instantaneously as in Dragon Ball, it comes down to Kubo's inner Toriyama.
If that happens I mail him a tub of my dog's poop. If it's geniune than I wouldn't have a problem with it. I doubt it will be like that, because Kubo is great at developing character relationships. IchiHime is a lot like KaiRuki... Truly.






Kaien was devoted to Rukia, he would even die for her. She was in his heart but she did not have his heart. His heart belonged to his wife. Just like Orihime is in Ichigo's heart, and he would die for her but she doesn't have his heart. Rukia has his heart. Just like Rukia confirmed that Kaien loved another woman, Orihime has also done the same, by validating Ichigo's feelings for Rukia. So it's a "no-brainer" that Bleach will end with IchiRuki--at least it is in my opinion. So I doubt Kubo will let his " inner Toriyama." free and make Ichigo instantly in love with Orihime.


But I won't go into it anymore because I think shipping discussions are banned here. They are right?
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Old 2011-10-15, 21:40   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Bonta Kun View Post
see, do you really want to know what some people think?
Hell yeah! That was an amusing read. lol
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
You're not denseAt least not always...JOKING JOKING. I couldn't resist that
Oh you...
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
I have never said who it was
I'm intrigued.
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Oi? Where did you get that avatar? Did you make it?
Yes. It's taken from the Aizen fan-wank-animation I'm still working on.
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I think shipping discussions are banned here. They are right?
Depends really. Shipping issues can still end up being related to reasons why you'd stop following Bleach. So just use your own judgment to decide if a shipping discussion feels like it's getting too far off topic.
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Old 2011-10-15, 21:57   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Sales would drop because IchiRuki ship is a cash cow.
I would lose any respect I have for him if he went a route just because it was more fan appealing (editor pressure on general story not withstanding). He should do what any author should and do what he wants.
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You have no idea why I ship IchiRuki...
I don't plan on guessing, but if you want to say so, you're welcome to.
Quote:
Kaien.
I think he could have been handled a bit better than the Espada 9 fight (like if he was actually Espada 9). Suffice it to say I don't think the Kaien story has any bearing on what decision he may or may not make as far as current possibilities are concerned (not anymore), or maybe it just seems way too disproportionate in relation to whatever theme Bleach is in general - which is why I think the possibilities are likely to be Toriyama styled.

Moving on, I think Chad should have an arc. His powers seem underdeveloped much like Ichigo before bankai and I think he has enough mystery for it all too (he seems like a mysterious guy at least). He's from Mexico...and HM seemed to be spanish themed, maybe something like his bloodline has deep roots in the business? Maybe I've been watching too much True Blood.
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Old 2011-10-16, 19:14   Link #26
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I watch it for the well done sad parts, but they are so few and far between. I would stop watching if soi fong and kenny was not in it, those characters are the only one I like seeing more of, I am bit worried now that one VA is gone. I frankly thought the way they did aizen in the last of the arc was so stupid. They take an intelligent villian and make him something from dragonball Z. Also hated the last movie too, I was hoping of espanda come back.
That modsoul filler arc was best bleach had been for a very long time.
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Old 2011-10-16, 20:13   Link #27
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Like a lot of people have pointed out, Bleach is a really character-driven story. Even if it's weak on plot, it still has many characters with appeal and potential. The later arcs are skimpy on character development compared to the earlier ones, but the prospect of seeing the characters that drew you into the manga is enough to keep reading every week. That and the easy accessibility.

The members of the Gotei 13 are definitely are the cornerstone for me though. Even though Ichigo, Chad, Orihime and Ishida are the main characters, they just aren't that interesting on their own. If there were ever a point where it was clear that Rukia, the Captains and VC's were absolutely gone for good I think that'd be it for me.

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Originally Posted by Alchemist007
and I think he has enough mystery for it all too (he seems like a mysterious guy at least). He's from Mexico...and HM seemed to be spanish themed, maybe something like his bloodline has deep roots in the business?
It's more likely the Spanish theme for HM is loosely based off the Mexican Day of The Dead holiday than a specific connection to Chad. Of course, I can't really think of a reason why Chad was given Mexican heritage (other than a flimsy explanation as to why thugs would target a super-ripped giant), so maybe there could be a link there.
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Old 2011-10-16, 21:43   Link #28
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Two things would make drop this or any other series...

1) Kubo pulls a SOE (if you know about the Star Wars Galaxies fiasco, you understand)
2) Ichigo wakes up and part of the series was a dream, ala Dallas.

I never understood shipping wars or the foaming at the mouth fanbase it's part of. I ship neither pairing as I don't have a real emotional tie to such characters. From the fantasy point of things, Ichigo would end up with Rukia, from a realistic stand point, either Orihime or Tatski.

Far as I'm concerned, it's still a plot hole how shinigami can have sex and impregnate a living person. What we assume is not the real answer. Though I fear that any real answer given will be summed up as "just because".

Last edited by Mr. DJ; 2011-10-16 at 21:54.
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Old 2011-10-16, 22:07   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Like a lot of people have pointed out, Bleach is a really character-driven story. Even if it's weak on plot, it still has many characters with appeal and potential. The later arcs are skimpy on character development compared to the earlier ones, but the prospect of seeing the characters that drew you into the manga is enough to keep reading every week.
I don't think I could agree more. At the very least, it provides me with a little more insight as to why I'd sooner give up Bleach over the permanent absence of a single character as oppose to quitting over an undesired direction the plot takes.

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Of course, I can't really think of a reason why Chad was given Mexican heritage (other than a flimsy explanation as to why thugs would target a super-ripped giant)
This may seem dissapointing, but it turns out Chad's heritage comes off as more of an afterthought. Supposedly at a comic-con interview one of the attendees asked about Chad's background. His answer was "It wasn't intentional," Kubo replied. When I first started drawing Chad, it just seemed that he should come from a Mexican heritage."


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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
Two things would make drop this or any other series...

1) Kubo pulls a SOE (if you know about the Star Wars Galaxies fiasco, you understand)
2) Ichigo wakes up and part of the series was a dream, ala Dallas.
With regards to #1, I'm very curious and would appreciate it if you could elaborate when you get a chance. I'm familiar with the franchise to the extent the movies cover. But if the "galaxies fiasco" has to do with the novels, then I can't make the connection at all w/ regards to Bleach.

As for possibility #2, does this mean you'd actually quit the series if the prediction of this current arc being Aizen's bankai turns out to be true?
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Old 2011-10-16, 22:44   Link #30
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this thread? why quit?

being an anime fan/lover, it is not easy to completely let go and forget a series that i used to love. There is no way to quit in it even i go look for another manga to read or another anime to watch because this field, the anime field, is my interest. Unless i shift being an anime fan/lover to an astronomer or chemist where i used my time experementing and discovering an unknown element. lol ^^

Kubo should be the one to quit, not me.

but setting aside anime fan/lover point and concentrate in Bleach as the subject alone.
why would we quit if there still lots of question we still haven't get an answer?

and i still read Bleach because I still haven't seen the newly Hollow Ichigo yet. i want to see it including the new Bankai because the new design is really awesome,^^ but I guess not now, there something horrible must happen first before Ichigo pull that thing off...................as always.

but please, if Kubo decided to come up with the big arc to be Tatsuki or Karin as the next damsel in distress, THAT'S BULLSH*T! FORGET ME BEING AN ANIME FAN/LOVER, I REALLY QUIT READING BLEACH AND NEVER CHECK FOR ANY UPDATES!...........
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Old 2011-10-17, 07:27   Link #31
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With regards to #1, I'm very curious and would appreciate it if you could elaborate when you get a chance. I'm familiar with the franchise to the extent the movies cover. But if the "galaxies fiasco" has to do with the novels, then I can't make the connection at all w/ regards to Bleach.
Basically, Sony Online Entertainment took the game, and erased everything and forced players to start from scratch.

Quote:
As for possibility #2, does this mean you'd actually quit the series if the prediction of this current arc being Aizen's bankai turns out to be true?
Spoiler for Bingo!:
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Old 2011-10-17, 07:54   Link #32
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What it would take for me to quit Bleach? Hmm, not so much the continuation of the eternal fight-to-protect/save formula, as much as insane troll devices (e.g. Karin being the spirit king for whatever reason). The very second bleach stops being of any interest to me, is the moment I stop reading it, and that will be when character revelations no longer hold an impact on the audience, i.e. me.
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Old 2011-10-17, 08:20   Link #33
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I've already given up the anime so I don't see giving up the manga that far off. Once you stop reading chapters and realize that you have missed absolutely nothing, it's not all that hard to give it a pass from week to week. I'm just glad I don't pay for any of it. What an epic waste of money that would be.

Now what would it take for me to drop the series completely? More of what Kubo is doing now. I don't care about the Fullbringers. I don't care about these Captain vs Fullbringer fights where they are clearly getting pwned and it's plainly obvious they will be defeated in short order. What was the point? It accomplished absolutely nothing. That is what I can't stand. If it's not contributing to the story or character development, it's wasting my time.

Kubo has ignored every character with an interesting back story in favour of meaningless fights. Urahara, Isshin, Yoruichi, hell even Grimm & Nel -> these characters I actually somewhat give a sh*t about. Ichigo's friends have become boring and stagnant. No development there. Ichigo is just about the stupidest and whiniest hero I have ever seen in a shonen manga. Kubo has even managed to turn Rukia into "just another character" like Renji has become.

The only reason I kept reading after SS was to see how things with Gin would play out. Then Kubo killed him off. I held on afterwards in the hopes that Kubo would reveal something (anything!) about Urahara or Isshin to keep my interest or reveal their motives. Instead we got a lame and pointless fullbringer arc featuring more wasted panels and Ichigo whining, then "finding himself". Fabulous.

I may pick it up again once this arc is over, but for now I've given it up. I've really only been coming back to the forums for the odd character discussion because that can actually be interesting. Except that now Kubo has killed off almost all the interesting characters. Nice move, d*ck.
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Old 2011-10-18, 00:45   Link #34
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post

The members of the Gotei 13 are definitely are the cornerstone for me though. Even though Ichigo, Chad, Orihime and Ishida are the main characters, they just aren't that interesting on their own. If there were ever a point where it was clear that Rukia, the Captains and VC's were absolutely gone for good I think that'd be it for me.
That is interesting, because I am almost 100% opposite to you in my preferences. I enjoy the Gotei 13 and the bankais/shikais as much as anyone, but I find those characters incredibly stagnant. They have awesome powers, distinctive personalities and cool fights, but really, how much can Kubo realistically develop the characters of captains who have been fighting for centuries? I am not bashing Kubo for that - rather there simply isn't much room for further exposition, especially with the most potentially complex captains in Tousen and Gin unceremoniously killed off, Shinji sidelined, and Urahara's mystery not really examined.

On the other hand, while Chad/Orihime/Ishida and even Ichigo are rather uninteresting now, that didn't have to be the case if Kubo had written this better. Ishida started the series as Ichigo's rival and near-equal, the last quincy and the only character besides Ichigo to defeat a Gotei 13 captain!! Yet now, he's comic relief. Chad, Ichigo's right-hand man and fearless backup relegated to a joke. And what about Orihime or Renji? The supporting cast of a shounen is the emotional backbone; watching their development mirror that of the hero is one of the inspirational motifs. Seeing them mature into characters worthy to stand besides and against the elite of the Gotei 13 could have been really fun and an epic journey.

And that's where I think the Gotei 13 would have been very effective, serving to give benchmarks and broader context to the development of the main cast, just as the admirals/pirate emperors serve in One Piece, for example. As the core focus of the story, I have a hard time caring whether they live or die.

If I don't see more out of the main characters (non-Ichigo!) soon, I'd probably drop Bleach.
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Old 2011-10-18, 06:47   Link #35
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I already lost it
Keep seeing things for months that could be done in 2-3 chapters is not exciting for me anymore.

I will be occasionally checking fan art since there still are characters that I like. And if I will find something interesting, I might pop up and check some things

I plan to check managa again in few months, hopefully I will see at least small ray of hope

In anime case I always will be here when fillers are up, they are far more fun than this manga bullshit
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Old 2011-10-18, 07:09   Link #36
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while I space things out...

While anime and mangas are not high up on my list of things that I "Keep up with" I read the bleach mangas once a month and watch the bleach animes every week eventually, sometimes because of my graphic design interests gifs of a character i like... renders of a good pose used for signatures stuff like that but I don't believe bleach has lot all hope yet, fillers are boundless in this anime because episodes tend to eat 2-3 chapters per episode and you know fillers were only REALLY BAD in Naruto (which is why i gave up on that anime wise a long ass time ago).


TL;DR

Kuroda is a Bleach fan-boy and will probably never think of any reason to give it up completely.
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Old 2011-10-18, 10:00   Link #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde
This may seem dissapointing, but it turns out Chad's heritage comes off as more of an afterthought. Supposedly at a comic-con interview one of the attendees asked about Chad's background. His answer was "It wasn't intentional," Kubo replied. When I first started drawing Chad, it just seemed that he should come from a Mexican heritage."
Really? Eh, don't care that much. Even if the choice to make Chad Mestizo was random, he could still do more with his heritage if he wanted.

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That is interesting, because I am almost 100% opposite to you in my preferences. I enjoy the Gotei 13 and the bankais/shikais as much as anyone, but I find those characters incredibly stagnant. They have awesome powers, distinctive personalities and cool fights, but really, how much can Kubo realistically develop the characters of captains who have been fighting for centuries? I am not bashing Kubo for that - rather there simply isn't much room for further exposition
Yeah, I can see that point of view but it's not really the case. Many of the shinigami are centuries old but it doesn't mean all of them have reached a plateau of growth and development. Quite a few of them are still "rookies". Renji obtained his bankai around the same time as Ichigo for example, and Shunsui stated that Hitsugaya, despite already being a captain, was still growing and would eventually surpass him (though that should take around a century).

I think the shinigami's long lives are a plus because there's a lot more of their pasts to potentially explore. Someone who is thousands of years old is bound to have had many more interesting experiences than someone who's only 15. TBTP arc is an example of this, as we get some insights into a lot of characters like Urahara, Tessai, Aizen and the vizards . Also, some glimpses of the other characters that better defined them.

Quote:
Ishida started the series as Ichigo's rival and near-equal, the last quincy and the only character besides Ichigo to defeat a Gotei 13 captain!! Yet now, he's comic relief. Chad, Ichigo's right-hand man and fearless backup relegated to a joke. And what about Orihime or Renji?
Well yeah, they should and could be more interesting. It's dissapointing to see these characters vow to get stronger and then get immediately get proven useless. But even at the height of Bleach's popularity, these guys weren't doing much... Ishida was Ichigo's self-appointed rival. He was never Ichigo's match in power, which is why he got trashed by Renji while Ichigo was able to push him into a corner their first fight. He defeated Mayuri through what was clearly labeled as a one-time powerup. Just as Rukia defeating an Espada not meant to show she had reached some new tier of power, that wasn't meant to show Ishida had "caught up" with Ichigo. Also, he's always been used as comic relief. And you're giving chad too much credit if you believe he was ever useful for anything aside from fighting low-level enemies.

Quote:
And that's where I think the Gotei 13 would have been very effective, serving to give benchmarks and broader context to the development of the main cast, just as the admirals/pirate emperors serve in One Piece, for example. As the core focus of the story, I have a hard time caring whether they live or die.
True, but they could only really do that as antagonists. And definitely, that was the role I enjoyed them most in. I've said before I'd love to see Ichigo and the Gotei 13 on opposite sides again somehow. But as good guys, they currently outshine the main characters.
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Old 2011-10-18, 16:39   Link #38
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I will 100% start to read Bleach properly again once some goody dies and by goody I mean a significant character and not someone who appeared in two shots.
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Old 2011-10-18, 16:45   Link #39
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I will 100% start to read Bleach properly again once some goody dies and by goody I mean a significant character and not someone who appeared in two shots.
I nominate Ichigo.
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Old 2011-10-18, 16:52   Link #40
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Ah, but then my suspected series ending is to be your dropping point? That's what I call tactical trolling. Keep'm till the end, good on ya KT!
LOL. Well, I have a feeling i won't be dropping the series soon, so don't get your hopes up

Otherwise; zero character development is also a good reson to drop the series. I don't like neither of the chars to stay static, thats just plain boring.
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