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Old 2011-10-16, 11:00   Link #841
Skane
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Why would people hate Touma? Touma and Lily is about as good as "Word of God" at this point, barring spontaneous massive writer stupidity (like, Shinn and Lunamaria level of stupidity). You could, in theory, hook up Lily with some other character, but... no, really. Just no.

Cheers.
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Old 2011-10-16, 11:02   Link #842
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I can haz Linith vs Twins catfight?

*Shot to death*

Seriously, other than brutalizing both Precia and the twins, I want this fight to happen...

I also want Cypha in the game so we can beat her up.
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Old 2011-10-16, 11:10   Link #843
Sunder the Gold
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Possible reasons to hate Touma*:

1) He's not another cute or sexy female to lust over

2) He's the main character of the manga, as opposed to Nanoha

3) If you hate Force, he's the face of Force. So hating him hates Force. (Insane Troll Logic)

4) He's somehow associated with the Huckebein who have so far been doing a very good job of being hateable.

5) You prefer ViVid (for whatever reason) and see Force as a rival series, and therefore resent anything to do with Force.

6) You think that if ViViD was the ONLY manga being produced, it might be released twice as often.

7) You are irrationally afraid that Touma will get Subaru as well as Lily, especially if you are a Subaru/Teanna fan.

8) You want Lily and Isis to hook up with each other instead.

9) Lily is your waifu.

10) Isis is your waifu.

11) Subaru is your waifu.

12) Vivio is your waifu.

13) [repeat]


* Please note that these possibilities do not necessarily reflect any of the exact opinions held by Sunder the Gold.
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Old 2011-10-16, 11:39   Link #844
Justin_Brett
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He's also not a very exciting or charismatic character so far.

You know, if you want a good reason.
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Old 2011-10-16, 11:58   Link #845
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
He's also not a very exciting or charismatic character so far.

You know, if you want a good reason.
Is it? I don't think all main characters need to be bombastic to be good.

Touma has been decently balanced between making his own heroic choices and being manipulated by his circumstances.

He was out on a solo journey instead of hiding away safe in the Nakajima household (surrounded by pretty girls). He heard Lily's cry, but decided on his own to investigate. He saved Lily from the facility. He confronted Leyron to learn more about his past. He did his best to counter-act the combat mode he found himself in.

If we perhaps feel less invested in Touma than we did in Nanoha about this time in the first season, I would wager it's because the manga has too many other characters competing for screen time and development.

Touma was already sharing the spotlight with Lily and Isis, and then there are several Huckebein. Both of these groups on top of the old cast who come intruding onto the screen.
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Old 2011-10-16, 12:00   Link #846
Kuze
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Actually hating him for that does nothing for a "here I am, sane and collected fan" attitude. Disliking him? Sure, nothing wrong with that. Not caring? Ditto. Wondering why the hell is he here, likewise.

Hating him for any of the above from JB or Sunder though, is just glorious derp at work.

For the record, I think he could go places. But he's more boring than S1 Nanoha at this point, even if his first meeting with Subaru was well done.
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Old 2011-10-16, 17:18   Link #847
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Well, boring in a bad way. You wonder what the point of him being here is, yeah.
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Old 2011-10-16, 18:36   Link #848
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Still, would you ever wail on the guy and yell "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR BEING BORING"? Probably not when the alternatives are "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR TORTURING HAYATE!" or "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR ABUSING FATE" or "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR TRYING TO DESTROY NANOFATE!"
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Old 2011-10-16, 19:04   Link #849
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I'll Laugh if the AI for all 4 of them happens to be an SNK Boss AI.
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Old 2011-10-16, 20:00   Link #850
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That would be awesome.
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Old 2011-10-16, 21:45   Link #851
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
"THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR TRYING TO DESTROY NANOFATE!"
Imagine if Yuuno actually gets significant dialogue with Nanoha or Fate, or -- gasp -- ship tease.


He might very well need an SNK boss's AI. Though that might just make the haters hate him even more.
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Old 2011-10-16, 21:55   Link #852
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Heh, well, he does have a scene with Nanoha in the first game. Of course it wasn't much noteworthy but they still had him explain it to her rather than not including him at all.
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Old 2011-10-16, 22:27   Link #853
Enternal
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What? Thoma and Yuuno have quite a bit of hate? Did not know that... that's kind of sad.

@Sunder the Gold
Surprisingly that list seems to be very credible... are you one of them? Muhahaha...
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Old 2011-10-16, 22:30   Link #854
bhl88
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Yuuno can be dressed up (Hayate's crossdressing toy). Thoma can't.
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Old 2011-10-16, 22:33   Link #855
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
Yuuno can be dressed up (Hayate's crossdressing toy). Thoma can't.
Given how much time he spends with his midriff exposed lately, I'd beg to differ.
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Old 2011-10-16, 22:36   Link #856
Justin_Brett
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Still, would you ever wail on the guy and yell "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR BEING BORING"? Probably not when the alternatives are "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR TORTURING HAYATE!" or "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR ABUSING FATE"
Took out the stupid example for you.

And not if he was a real person, certainly, but, well, he isn't. That fact is more obvious with him than other Nanoha characters.
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Old 2011-10-16, 23:04   Link #857
00-Raiser
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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Took out the stupid example for you.
And yet you can't deny a lot of people will do that. I know, I've had those people breathing down my neck for years.

Thoma's supposed blandness breeds apathy, not agressive hate.
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Old 2011-10-16, 23:19   Link #858
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Originally Posted by ZeroIchiNi View Post
I'll Laugh if the AI for all 4 of them happens to be an SNK Boss AI.
I support this idea.
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Old 2011-10-17, 00:16   Link #859
bhl88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Given how much time he spends with his midriff exposed lately, I'd beg to differ.
I haven't seen Thoma crossdress though...
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Old 2011-10-17, 00:31   Link #860
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
@Sunder the Gold
Surprisingly that list seems to be very credible... are you one of them? Muhahaha...
Now that seems just rude.

I will confess to prefering ViViD and looking forward to that comic much more than Force.

Right now, Force interests me only so much as it might clarify something regarding combat teleportation. I don't care for the anti-magic, and I don't care for the increasing mechanization and impersonalization of the heroes' equipment.

Replacing Graf Eisen and Strada with identical guns? I think something has gone seriously wrong.

I'm not inclined to like Touma, but I won't say he's boring. Merely that his debut story seems just as mishandled as StrikerS.


ViVid is also introducing a bunch of new characters, but it's doing so much more slowly, and using the time to provide at least a little development.

It helps that there's no confusing mystery layered over everything, too. Force not only has the mysteries surrounding the Huckebein, but also regarding how Touma might be different from the Huckebein, and also whoever the third party behind the scenes is and what they're doing. What time it doesn't spend explaining those mysteries is spent alluding to them.

Sure, there are irritating plotholes regarding the origins and recent family histories of Einhart and that Thunder Empress Girl (also the ANCIENT family history of the TEG), but everyone else is presumably a normal girl.

As normal girls, they were born to a mother and father as part of regular, none-famous, non-influential, every-day normal families. By luck of genetics, they inherited significant magical power. By virtue of being involved in the tournament at all, they all also had enough interest in magical combat skills to train for it.

Some of them are self-taught with common skills they've managed to master, and those with more uncommon styles clearly inherited them, for the most part.


Dammit, I'm rambling.
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