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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10 24 36.36%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 43.94%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 15.15%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 3.03%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.52%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-10-16, 19:50   Link #101
Nina.Wolken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
And finally I also love all the Penguins!
Am I the only one left who think they are creepy? Seriously, what are they here for? Why are only the Takakuras and Natsume(s) able to see them? Why did San-chan disappeared when Himari died?
We really don't know anything about what they are yet. But we know they've been sent by Sanetoshi. The guy who is planning on destroying them. How suspicious is that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
6. Even if Yuri does have a dick, she still is mostly a female. She has feminine voice, looks, body (forget the dick)... she is a girl for biggest part! She is not a guy who has done a surgery to change the gender. If she were to do surgery in the future then it would be much easier to make a girl out of her than a guy. So no matter how much you are in denial yuri haters, it is yuri scene.
If we were talking about a romantic relationship, I could agree with you. But here we're down to a purely physical interaction. What isn't that important in the development of a relationship (genital attribute) is here the key issue of the classification. So I'll repeat what I've already stated earlier : sex between a girl and an hermaphrodite doesn't qualify as yuri but futanari (as a genre).

I too hope for some yuri development and/or action (please no rape!) in MawaPen, but I'm waiting next week to know if episode 14 was intended to deceive (troll ?) yuri fanboys/fangirls, or not.
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Old 2011-10-16, 21:15   Link #102
creb
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Seeing as they were at a hotsprings, I'd find it hard to believe Ringo wouldn't have noticed a penis when they were stripping down.

I'm still on the side that says she's simply gay, or has some type of scar (ie: on her genitals) possibly related to Tabuki's scars (I don't think it's going out on a limb to speculate she and Tabuki were very close if only due to their shared obsession over Momoka). But, really, Yuri could be Kanba's mom in disguise and I wouldn't be surprised. I think this show has made me reach that dark place where nothing can shock me anymore.
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Old 2011-10-16, 22:00   Link #103
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Okay first of all to be clear the negative rep was not me. I don't believe in giving negative reps.

But I think it is possible that people are not "Yuri Haters" here but Anti-Rape.

I have nothing against Yuri. For example after episode 14 I am starting to ship the Himari/Double H Girls. I was also going to say Ringo/Himari but I am too much of a Ringo/Shouma shipper for that.

But I have to admit I am bothered by the whole Ringo/Yuri thing because of the whole rape aspect and the fact that Yuri is an adult taking advantage of a teenager. I think everyone is allowed to like what they like but it does bother me on a personal level.

Not that I think you should have gotten a negative rep over your post though.

I never said that I approve the whole rape factor, I'm totally against it. My point was that Yuri is still a female for the biggest part so if she is to date a girl, it will be a lesbian relationship with slight edition.

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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Seeing as they were at a hotsprings, I'd find it hard to believe Ringo wouldn't have noticed a penis when they were stripping down.

I'm still on the side that says she's simply gay, or has some type of scar (ie: on her genitals) possibly related to Tabuki's scars (I don't think it's going out on a limb to speculate she and Tabuki were very close if only due to their shared obsession over Momoka). But, really, Yuri could be Kanba's mom in disguise and I wouldn't be surprised. I think this show has made me reach that dark place where nothing can shock me anymore.
Good point, unless they were undressing at different times.
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Old 2011-10-16, 22:25   Link #104
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
I never said that I approve the whole rape factor, I'm totally against it. My point was that Yuri is still a female for the biggest part so if she is to date a girl, it will be a lesbian relationship with slight edition.
I never said you did approve of the rape factor (and I am sure no one on here does) but I am just saying not liking Yuri/Ringo might have nothing to do with disliking Yuri but disliking the rape aspect of the relationship.
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Old 2011-10-17, 00:09   Link #105
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Yuri is still a female for the biggest part so if she is to date a girl, it will be a lesbian relationship with slight edition.
What is "lesbian" is for lesbians to decide, but if you're talking about yuri (the genre), I can tell you that you're wrong. Yuri is the genre about love (or sex) between girls with NO dicks. If there are dicks involved, the genre is futanari, not yuri. It's as simple as that.

Tha said, I wouldn't mind yuri in Penguidrum (provided it isn't rape!). I'm a yuri fan after all.
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Old 2011-10-17, 00:23   Link #106
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Well, regardless of what secret Yuri is hiding about her body, the last scene of this episode is visually indistinguishable from yuri (rape yuri, but yuri nonetheless ).

It may well end up not being actual yuri, but hey, if it looks like a duck, and if it sounds like a duck, then for some viewers it can have the same impact as seeing a duck, even if it is a swan or a goose.


I do agree, though, that being a fan of yuri is not the same as being a fan of futanari. It honestly annoys me a bit how much I come across futanari when I search various image sites for yuri.
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Old 2011-10-17, 00:39   Link #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
PengiunDrum shoudl be renamed ringaroundtheNTR, because holy mother loving god, everybody is trying to rape everybody
Hide yo kids hide yo penguins HIDE YO WIFE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Well okay you are probably right but I was thinking maybe one character is normal on the show.

But I guess a messed up Tabuki would be more interesting in the long run!
Imagine Tabuki with a screw on his head, instant soul eater.
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Old 2011-10-17, 02:46   Link #108
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lol, what's with all the italics for yuri and futanari? It's kinda distracting, like subliminal messaging. I don't think we need to emphasize the words that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
What is "lesbian" is for lesbians to decide, but if you're talking about yuri (the genre), I can tell you that you're wrong. Yuri is the genre about love (or sex) between girls with NO dicks. If there are dicks involved, the genre is futanari, not yuri. It's as simple as that.

Tha said, I wouldn't mind yuri in Penguidrum (provided it isn't rape!). I'm a yuri fan after all.
As for the bolded line above, I'm not sure about that. See, generally the only context where you can run across "girls with dicks" ever is in porn, which would make it futanari. It's kind of extremely rare that like we have here in Penguindrum we might have a hermaphrodite, in love with a girl, as part of a serious narrative and dramatic story. If you're talking about the emotional or sentimental aspects of a romance between two girls, of whom one might happen to have a dick, then like kitten320 said I dunno it'd actually be wrong to call it lesbian or yuri. So, for example, I do clearly see Yuri as a woman, penis or not. And if I think about Yuri's love for Momoka, obsessive though it might be, it is still appealing to me in its emotional intensity in much the same way that I like yuri. While I could probably agree with calling Yuri on Ringo rape futanari, I don't think it'd be wrong to call Yuri's feelings for Momoka yuri love.

Incidentally, has anybody else here watched Heartcatch Precure? Yuri x Momoka are an actual pair of older girls and close friends over there, and I personally am quite a fan. The coincidence of names is rather uncanny that I might be tempted to think it a reference.
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Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 24/5 :: Hanayamata 30/5 :: Locodol 80/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2011-10-17, 03:42   Link #109
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
As for the bolded line above, I'm not sure about that. See, generally the only context where you can run across "girls with dicks" ever is in porn, which would make it futanari. It's kind of extremely rare that like we have here in Penguindrum we might have a hermaphrodite, in love with a girl, as part of a serious narrative and dramatic story. If you're talking about the emotional or sentimental aspects of a romance between two girls, of whom one might happen to have a dick, then like kitten320 said I dunno it'd actually be wrong to call it lesbian or yuri.
The genre conventions that comprise the yuri genre are quite clear, and if there's a penis involved it's not yuri, serious narrative or not. I'm pretty sure I've read pretty much every yuri manga translated into English, and quite a few that are not. I collect Yurihime, Tsubomi, Hirari, and other yuri magazines. And I've never seen a hermaphrodite in any of them. I'm pretty sure the readers of such magazines wouldn't accept it even if it was presented seriously.

On the other hand, whether Yuri can be considered a lesbian (which is not necessarily the same as yuri) if she's indeed a hermaphrodite is not for me to decide, I think. Lesbian is a self-identification label after all, and I don't even call proper yuri characters lesbian unless they call themselves this way (or the Japanese equivalents) in-universe.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-10-17 at 04:17.
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Old 2011-10-17, 03:48   Link #110
Nina.Wolken
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Incidentally, has anybody else here watched Heartcatch Precure? Yuri x Momoka are an actual pair of older girls and close friends over there, and I personally am quite a fan. The coincidence of names is rather uncanny that I might be tempted to think it a reference.
Cure Moonlight was my favorite Precure and I never realized the connection, well done! Too bad MawaPen Momoka never made it to being a model, given her popularity at 10, I'm sure she would have made a great career in that field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun
if there's a penis involved it's not yuri
Words of wisdom.
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Old 2011-10-17, 05:20   Link #111
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On the final screen of this anime .. i don't even know what is this feeling i am having now. You knows, like a self conflict where i morally think it should not happen. But somehow the potential development from the event will shake the story so much that I am curious how Ikuhara will handle it... Still i don't want it to happen. But then... maybe...

Yuri is one of the character that I like through, so i still believe that the coming development will save her form being hared. I means.... I used to hate Kanba after the first episode. He then redeemed himself. I also really hate Ringo and her attitude back then. She was now part of my favorite character. Even Natsume somehow showed her caring side.And most of the Utena's cast too.

Yuri was not a cool woman that she showed herself to be, but the beginning of this ep showed that she is also having her own pain and conflict that it's too soon to judge her now. Why did she tell Ringo on her feeling toward Shouma? Why didn't she steal Momoka diary sooner (during the bird watching ep perhaps, even when she willing to go extra far to tear it off with her motorcycle)

Now on Yuri's gender and the whole futarini or yuri issue , to Nina.Wolken and Kazu-kun and others interested in the topic, what i think is:
Spoiler for In case other ppl are uncomfortable with the issues:




The question now is, who is Momoka's reincarnation. Ringo? Mario? Himari? Btw, If someone gonna save Ringo, i will bet on Tabuki more than Natsume (who seems to be on Kanba's train till recently)
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Old 2011-10-17, 07:01   Link #112
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
As for the bolded line above, I'm not sure about that. See, generally the only context where you can run across "girls with dicks" ever is in porn, which would make it futanari. It's kind of extremely rare that like we have here in Penguindrum we might have a hermaphrodite, in love with a girl, as part of a serious narrative and dramatic story. If you're talking about the emotional or sentimental aspects of a romance between two girls, of whom one might happen to have a dick, then like kitten320 said I dunno it'd actually be wrong to call it lesbian or yuri. So, for example, I do clearly see Yuri as a woman, penis or not. And if I think about Yuri's love for Momoka, obsessive though it might be, it is still appealing to me in its emotional intensity in much the same way that I like yuri. While I could probably agree with calling Yuri on Ringo rape futanari, I don't think it'd be wrong to call Yuri's feelings for Momoka yuri love.
That's exactly what I was getting at.
Just because someone has ONE different part of the body sdoesn't mean that they instantly became that person/thing. If I were to have, I duno... a tail! I still would consider myself a human because I don't have claws, fure, feet like monkey and etc. Everything is of a human except the tail so I am human for biggest part!

That's exactly how I see hermaphrodites unless they are totally denying it. Though I can't see Yuri denying the fact that she is a female.

So for me she is like 70-80% female and 30-20% male. So basicly it is 70-80% yuri and 30-20% futunari, that's how I see it. And I'm talking specificly about hermaphrodites and not about random doujinshi where girls all of a sudden grow dicks. For me these two things are totally different.
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Old 2011-10-17, 07:47   Link #113
Nina.Wolken
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Why did she tell Ringo on her feeling toward Shouma? Why didn't she steal Momoka diary sooner (during the bird watching ep perhaps, even when she willing to go extra far to tear it off with her motorcycle)
Either she didn't know about it at that point or she didn't want to be suspected... Which makes me wonder why she went after it in the first place. What is the purpose of the diary really? Is it just in Ringo's head and now Yuri's that you can become Momoka by following what's writing in it?
Or is something, some kind of miracle supposed to occur once you've complete everything written in it?
I'm incline to believe Yuri and Ringo only care about the diary and follow what's inside because Momoka wrote it. Ringo already gave up but Yuri is trying to get as close (way too close Yuri, way too close!) as possible to Momoka by accomplishing what is in the diary. But both Ringo and Yuri seem to ignore what the real purpose/power of the diary is.

Masako and PoC in the other hand want the diary to create some kind of miracle. Not clear yet clear what that is for PoC, but in Masako's case that would be saving Mario's life. Mario who, like Himari, survived so far thanks to Sanetoshi's apple (see the flashback in ep 09) and then capsules.

So, what if the diary was of the same nature than Sanetoshi's capsules, but much stronger?
In episode 12, we see Sanetoshi collecting one apple which he transform into a capsule (to make it easier to ingest?). But when he collect it, the doctor's body disappears at the same time . Could it be that those capsules require human sacrifice? Or at least, when their time is up (as symbolized by the apple) Sanetoshi collects their bodies and turn them into elixir. I've no idea how but I doubt the process is important.
Then could it be that when Momoka died, her body too transformed? Not in elixir, but in the diary? And now Momoka's diary = Momoka's body. I've noted the elixir and the diary are of the same color and Mamoka's body was never found. Only her diary remained after the terrorist attack...

Now the biggest problem is that the diary has been torn in half . Hopefully there is a way to put it back together or any re-apparition of Momoka would be damn ugly

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
The question now is, who is Momoka's reincarnation. Ringo? Mario? Himari? Btw, If someone gonna save Ringo, i will bet on Tabuki more than Natsume (who seems to be on Kanba's train till recently)
Why do you think she has been reincarnate? It's practically certain Momoka's soul is in the hat and she is the PoC. Do you think her soul has been split or something?

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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
So i think if Yuri is a hermaphrodite, the screen can be categorized both as futanari and yuri.
If the scene was anything else than sexual I would agree on the yuri part. But it's not. There are no shared feelings here, no romance between Ringo and Yuri. Only one predator lusting on her prey. You're entitled to your own belief, but I'm not going to agree that futanari rape scene = yuri.

Edit: on the last point, we would better wait next week to be sure there is anything to actually debate.
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Old 2011-10-17, 07:56   Link #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
It's practically certain Momoka's soul is in the hat and she is the PoC.
Why is that "practically certain"?
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Old 2011-10-17, 08:00   Link #115
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Why is that "practically certain"?
Because of episode 13 and Sanetoshi's speech in the library. Also :

Simply wanted to add that if the Diary is Momoka's body, PoC being Momoka's soul, it makes perfect sens she tries to get it back .
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Old 2011-10-17, 08:29   Link #116
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Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
Because of episode 13 and Sanetoshi's speech in the library. Also :
Thank you for that visual. For me, that's the most convincing part of your argument (without which, I'd just see PoC = Momoka as being a good theory, but not 'practically certain').

Yeah, with that visual, it's almost certainly true that PoC = Momoka.
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Old 2011-10-17, 11:34   Link #117
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
Because of episode 13 and Sanetoshi's speech in the library. Also :

Simply wanted to add that if the Diary is Momoka's body, PoC being Momoka's soul, it makes perfect sens she tries to get it back .
If Momoka is PoC. Can we expect that both Yuri and Tabuki are hardcore masochist, who just can't resist Momoka's badmouth?

When you think about it, poor Ringo, are screwed up by her three seniors, Tabuki, Momoka and Yuri. The first two do in in her head, the last one gonna do it literally
If you do not find it funny,my apologise. Don't neg rep me, i nearly get that 4th green thingy ( m_ _)m



PS: what kind of drug did Yuri spiked Ringo btw, she was not quite unconscious, just pant hard and show no resistance.
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Old 2011-10-17, 12:18   Link #118
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Did anyone noticed that in the new ED, Himari's two friends were wearing her scarfs?

Is the ED really just Himari wishful thinking afterall?
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Old 2011-10-17, 12:31   Link #119
Nina.Wolken
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If Momoka is PoC. Can we expect that both Yuri and Tabuki are hardcore masochist, who just can't resist Momoka's badmouth?
I doubt she was that harsh when she was alive, rather she is bitter at Ringo for chewing her when she was a baby :
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Old 2011-10-17, 15:17   Link #120
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
PS: what kind of drug did Yuri spiked Ringo btw, she was not quite unconscious, just pant hard and show no resistance.
Well, she stopped being "aware" pretty quickly, but the scene implies she's aroused. That suggests the drug increases sexual arousal somehow while also dulling the mind. I'm not sure such a drug actually exists in real life...the closest I can think of would be the date rape type of drugs. The symptoms do match, vaguely:

http://www.womenshealth.gov/publicat...rape-drugs.cfm
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