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Old 2011-10-17, 03:39   Link #861
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Thoma's supposed blandness breeds apathy, not agressive hate.
Agreed.

I don't hate Tohma and he's not a BAD character per se. But he isn't also a good one either, i find him pretty bland in comparission with all that's happening arround him, so far he feels more like a designated hero than a true main character. Still, he have some goot traits in his favour and maybe he will start to shine more now that he can fight by himself.

Still he isn't lacking of some Mary Su-ish traits like being atached with almost all the the old cast without very much explanation or background and the fact that Word of God declared him as the most powerful member of the cast right off the bat which kills a bit of the drama in regards of his battles.
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Old 2011-10-17, 03:56   Link #862
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I also neutral about Tohma. He himself was in between love and hate. He favored because the story of his past, but hated because they have story breaker power. If the author does not reveal the secret behind the abilities they have, go ahead. Guaranteed, going to protests by the fans.

Speaking of Chew Toy, who's the others will become another Chew Toy by us, aside from Tohma?
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Old 2011-10-17, 09:52   Link #863
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Now that seems just rude.

I will confess to prefering ViViD and looking forward to that comic much more than Force.

Right now, Force interests me only so much as it might clarify something regarding combat teleportation. I don't care for the anti-magic, and I don't care for the increasing mechanization and impersonalization of the heroes' equipment.

Replacing Graf Eisen and Strada with identical guns? I think something has gone seriously wrong.

I'm not inclined to like Touma, but I won't say he's boring. Merely that his debut story seems just as mishandled as StrikerS.


ViVid is also introducing a bunch of new characters, but it's doing so much more slowly, and using the time to provide at least a little development.

It helps that there's no confusing mystery layered over everything, too. Force not only has the mysteries surrounding the Huckebein, but also regarding how Touma might be different from the Huckebein, and also whoever the third party behind the scenes is and what they're doing. What time it doesn't spend explaining those mysteries is spent alluding to them.

Sure, there are irritating plotholes regarding the origins and recent family histories of Einhart and that Thunder Empress Girl (also the ANCIENT family history of the TEG), but everyone else is presumably a normal girl.

As normal girls, they were born to a mother and father as part of regular, none-famous, non-influential, every-day normal families. By luck of genetics, they inherited significant magical power. By virtue of being involved in the tournament at all, they all also had enough interest in magical combat skills to train for it.

Some of them are self-taught with common skills they've managed to master, and those with more uncommon styles clearly inherited them, for the most part.


Dammit, I'm rambling.
Oops seems like you took it the wrong way. I intend it to be a joke hence the "Muhahaha" at the end so sorry if I caused any misunderstanding. Did not meant to attack you or anything and more to respond to "Please note that these possibilities do not necessarily reflect any of the exact opinions held by Sunder the Gold" in a joking manner.

In terms of what I prefer, I also prefer Vivid to Force. Not that I hate Force or anything but right now Vivid just seems more fun and enjoyable than Force. Somehow Force to me is missing the fun factor but I still read it because it's still interesting I think.

"Thoma's supposed blandness breeds apathy, not agressive hate."
Yep exactly.
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Old 2011-10-17, 10:24   Link #864
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
Oops seems like you took it the wrong way. I intend it to be a joke hence the "Muhahaha" at the end so sorry if I caused any misunderstanding.
Oh, I considered that possibility very likely... The second time I read it, before responding.

Sorry that I didn't make my own first sentence sound enough like a joke. I feel emoticons are silly, dislike excessive purpose-prose, and sometimes forget to add descriptive bits of narration to show I'm being silly.

But I wanted to take the opportunity to expand on my thoughts. Especially because I did want to make clear which of those "reasons" were somewhat close to my own and which weren't.


Quote:
right now Vivid just seems more fun and enjoyable than Force. Somehow Force to me is missing the fun factor but I still read it because it's still interesting I think.
I agree. Would you say that StrikerS also lacked that element compared to the first two seasons, or that this is something particular to ViVid?


Quote:
"Thoma's supposed blandness breeds apathy, not agressive hate."
Yep exactly.
I'll agree about the apathy, but not the specific cause.
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Old 2011-10-17, 10:28   Link #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
I don't hate Tohma and he's not a BAD character per se. But he isn't also a good one either, i find him pretty bland in comparission with all that's happening arround him, so far he feels more like a designated hero than a true main character. Still, he have some goot traits in his favour and maybe he will start to shine more now that he can fight by himself.

Still he isn't lacking of some Mary Su-ish traits like being atached with almost all the the old cast without very much explanation or background and the fact that Word of God declared him as the most powerful member of the cast right off the bat which kills a bit of the drama in regards of his battles.
Reasonable.
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Old 2011-10-17, 12:53   Link #866
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the fact that Word of God declared him as the most powerful member of the cast right off the bat
Wait, when did this happen?
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Old 2011-10-17, 14:03   Link #867
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the fact that Word of God declared him as the most powerful member of the cast right off the bat
Not really it was declared that he has the most powerful of the new equipment´s.

Nothing more.
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Old 2011-10-17, 15:20   Link #868
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by green-link94 View Post
Not really it was declared that he has the most powerful of the new equipment´s.

Nothing more.
It's very close to be the same thing as he alone pwned pretty much anybody in a single shot and also trashed Nanoha AFTER receiving not one but TWO upgrades, and took the combined efforts of FOUR main characters to merely knock him out. The closes record belongs to Curren and no one else.
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Old 2011-10-17, 19:26   Link #869
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Oh, traditional Aki wordplay, I see.

Having a badass, unique weapon doesn't mean you are a badass yourself, guy. You really think Tsuzuki would say 'yes, this new person could beat up every single one of your favorite characters, easily', when he's already the subject of some dislike?
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Old 2011-10-17, 19:29   Link #870
Akiyoshi
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You really think Tsuzuki would say 'yes, this new person could beat up every single one of your favorite characters, easily', when he's already the subject of some dislike?
But he already did exactly that with Cypha's Divider 944 "Konig Reacted" and Tohma's "Black Knight" form.
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Old 2011-10-17, 19:31   Link #871
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I'd really like to see actual evidence for both those.
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Old 2011-10-17, 19:49   Link #872
Akiyoshi
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I'd really like to see actual evidence for both those.
Force Ch. 07 and Ch. 14

7 and 14? ...oh, the irony xD
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Old 2011-10-17, 19:53   Link #873
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Easily beat nobody, the Dividers might be strong against Devices, that doesn't take away the Aces/Strikers ability.

But I will agree that the balance between equipment and individual skill could use quite a bit of work, see Black Cat for example of more nuanced approach.

As far as Touma goes, he's a rookie. I wouldn't call him as bad off as Hayate was, but he's definitely not up to the Forwards in the beginning of StrikerS. He's got the reflexes, but not the conditioning or the training.

Character wise, he's basically Raiden at the beginning of Metal Gear Solid 2. Which, okay, is alright as a starting point, but definitely not for an advancing storyline. We're in the middle of a breather for SS6, it is time now to get developing with what's in the skull, and where Touma is actually going.


Having said all that, I seriously hope I didn't jinx Tsuzuki into writting "why hello there young people, now you will **** BRIX OMFG DID YOU SEE THAT EVERYONES TRIPPIN' BALLS" plot
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Old 2011-10-17, 20:06   Link #874
Akiyoshi
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As far as Touma goes, he's a rookie. I wouldn't call him as bad off as Hayate was, but he's definitely not up to the Forwards in the beginning of StrikerS. He's got the reflexes, but not the conditioning or the training.
So far Tohma is like an unskilled Juggernaut, strong enough to trash any foe and resilent enough to withstand the attacks of the third most powerfull character at the moment, yet untrained in the proper means of combat.
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Old 2011-10-17, 20:52   Link #875
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Comparing any character to Raiden seems a bit rude to me. Touma at least makes sense.
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Old 2011-10-17, 21:09   Link #876
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@ Sunder the Gold
Oh so you were being silly? Hehe guess I'm the one who did not notice anything.

Hmm... I would say that it is something particular to ViVid. Personally I actually enjoyed StrikerS a lot and I know there's a lot of mixed feelings about it so it's nothing something I would normally say too much to other people. If each series were separated, all three to me would still be in my top 10 favorite. That gives you an idea of how much I enjoyed the anime. Vivid and Force on the other hand is a bit different to me but what Vivid does give me is the slice-of-life feeling that I wanted more from the anime. Force however is... I don't really know how I feel about it yet but I will continue to read it since it is still cannon and I don't hate it either.

Touma right now is unpolished ore (hehe from Nanoha) and needs to be polished. He have the potential but he can't use it yet. That's why he's Nanoha's new fresh meat haha.
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Old 2011-10-18, 00:04   Link #877
Akiyoshi
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Touma right now is unpolished ore (hehe from Nanoha) and needs to be polished. He have the potential but he can't use it yet. That's why he's Nanoha's new fresh meat haha.
That's the kicker, Tohma is indeed unpolished but his raw untrained potential is already powerfull enough to trash a Fortress armored Nanoha without much trouble.

Trained Tohma will be broken as hell xD!
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Old 2011-10-18, 00:35   Link #878
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I agree... check if the new cards here reflect their power levels.

Touma is a plain 7000 and Nanoha is over 9000!
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Old 2011-10-18, 00:48   Link #879
Akiyoshi
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I agree... check if the new cards here reflect their power levels.

Touma is a plain 7000 and Nanoha is over 9000!
Yup but Tohma's level and cost is far lower than Nanoha's which means that you can pull out 7000 right of the bat with him and dominate the field before Nanoha can enter the scene.

Then again, probably this also follow my theory that the main cast was at their prime during A's and started to go downhill from there.
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Old 2011-10-18, 01:07   Link #880
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Nanoha's effect is much better:
砲撃魔導師 なのは
【Continuous】The character opposite this card gains Soul -1. (lesser damage)
【Automatic】[(3)] When this card is put from Hand to the Stage, you may pay the cost. If you do so, choose 1 of your opponent's Level 1 or below characters and put it to the Waiting Room. (fulfills her role as a bombardment mage)

Thoma:
vanilla

Yeah (I think your theory is true):

Vita 紅の鉄騎 ヴィータ: Red level 1/cost 0 power 4500 (Ref: Nanoha A's booster)
【Automatic】 When the card「Heaven's Roar Smash」is in the Climax area, this card gains the following ability.『【Automatic】 When this card is put into【Knockout】state, and the Battle opponent should be the same level or below, put that card into【Knockout】State.』 【Automatic】[(1)] When this card attacks, you may pay the cost to activate the ability. Should you do so, choose one of your Opponent's card, for that turn, that card gains Level -1.

Vita 鉄槌の騎士ヴィータ: Red level 2/cost 1 power 5000 Source: Nanoha StrikerS booster
【Automatic】[(1)] When this card attacks, and the Climax card 「Piercing!」is in the Climax Area, you may pay the cost to deal 1 damage to your opponent. (Damage cancellation applies)
【Automatic】When this card turn to 【Reverse】 state, and the card that battled with this Character is Level 2 or below, you may put that card into 【Reverse】 state.
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