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Old 2011-10-19, 07:04   Link #801
Roj
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Jesus guys when will Japan stop making generic anime, can't they realize no one wants to see Beta MC in Code Gayass season3235 already?

Arguably it's more mature than CG but at least it wasn't trying to be deeper than it was, the director wants to make this his 'personal GitS', but it lacks anything close to resembling the themes that GitS explores, although I admit it's nearly got the setting down.

The feel is pretty good, they built good atmosphere with the music and visuals. The archetypical 'girl meets high school boy and he acquires powers though is completely pointless. The whole 'using your friends as weapons' shit doesn't really build theme either or tie into anything at all. Unless of course there's a lot of betrayals and all among characters regarding their friends trusts and all, but the protagonist's monologues and dialogue was mostly to do with his initiative to take opportunities in life and all. We've already seen this idea expanded on much better, in Neon Genesis Evangelion it was the pretty much whole point of the anime, and in more contemporary times, last year's Tatami Galaxy provided us with a different answer. But Guilty Crown brings nothing new to the table. It is pure, gimmicky shit.
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Old 2011-10-19, 09:12   Link #802
fertygo
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Everyone keep saying "generic" this, generic this blablabla
but in fact not in every season you can see this kind of mega project...
Sure you already see these kind of show before, mecha... school setting blablabla.. but the fact is this show appear like once in every what? once in every 2-3 years?

People must realize this kind of gimmick is the number one favourite for "popcorn hits" for otakus/casual anime watcher.
Its like mandatory doze of superheroes movie in Hollywood.

I'm not the biggest fan of premise either, but this "generic shit" ranting from the elitist is tiring. Just don't watch it, just one glance to poster/screenshot/whatever is enough to tell you what kind of show is this, popcorn hits with all kind of gimmicks.

If you can't enjoy it because its too cheap for you, just stay away from it.

Btw tbh watching the 1st eps is kinda painful for me, the script is dull n the pacing is awkward. but when I watch it for the second time without wearing my critics goggles, its very different experience... the show is more fun than I thought, the awkward pacing became entertaining because its speed, many eye candy there, etc.

This show is much better if you watch it just for fun.
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Old 2011-10-19, 12:54   Link #803
Kaoru Chujo
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I don't know about "generic," but I have now watched this episode five times with great enjoyment. It has something about it that I associate with Shinbou: a kind of rhythm to the way scenes and sounds and images roll out. Maybe we've seen versions of these events before, but the way they are doing them here is excellent, it seems to me.

I realized partway through watching it again yesterday that details of so-called "realism" are not what count here. It's true our hero jumps from angst to action pretty quickly (although still within reason, in my opinion), and acts rashly. But his role is to be our emotional vehicle, carrying us from a feeling of angst to this confused triumph.

As with a lot of popular literature, it's the emotional trajectory that counts for me, not the plot details. I can easily accept the set pieces, like Gai's arrival or drawing the sword, for their power, rather than rejecting them for details of realism or resemblance to some other show. Of course, I've always thought that anime does fantasy and ideal better than it does real.

The incredible character design of Inori helps, too. We can wonder whether she would be really wearing an outfit like that, but that outfit -- and her character design overall -- helps make her the magical being she is (so far).

And chelly's singing and Kayano Ai's voice help. Kayanon's tight way of saying "hito" in "okubyo na hito" (cowardly person) is fantastic, like a drill reaching both his shame and his lust at the same time.
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Old 2011-10-19, 13:29   Link #804
orion
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
The Director's statements that he wants this to be his GitS is about as /facepalm as Yamakan saying he's the savior of anime. The Director would be better served keeping his mouth shut and letting his work speak for him.
Why not?

GitS has "legs". It's popular in Japan and the US. The original movie spawned 2 TV series, 2 theatricals and people are pinning still for a third series. Commercially speaking, I'd want to be the one that produces another "GitS" too if I was him.
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Old 2011-10-19, 13:34   Link #805
creb
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Why not?

GitS has "legs". It's popular in Japan and the US. The original movie spawned 2 TV series, 2 theatricals and people are pinning still for a third series. Commercially speaking, I'd want to be the one that produces another "GitS" too if I was him.
I thought it was self-evident, but if it's not, let me just say that Guilty Crown is never going to be a GitS.

Just like Yamakan is never going to be the savior of anime.

Both of these directors should learn something about humility, and that the best let their work speak for them, not their mouths.
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Old 2011-10-19, 14:45   Link #806
orion
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
I thought it was self-evident, but if it's not, let me just say that Guilty Crown is never going to be a GitS.

Just like Yamakan is never going to be the savior of anime.

Both of these directors should learn something about humility, and that the best let their work speak for them, not their mouths.
You don't really know that. It's only the first episode. It could be a more commercial success than GitS. It's definitely a slicker (more teen and 20-something oriented) production. It just needs to keep up the momentum they started at episode 1.
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Old 2011-10-19, 14:49   Link #807
fertygo
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I think what Araki meant is he want GC became his breakout title, not he wanting GC became the next GiTS.
Yeah Araki does need breakout title, he's already well-known director at this point but he not yet there on "elite" talk. Kinda like Shinbo before Bake, he's famous and have follower but hits title make him fly to higher stratosphere. I think that is what Araki implying.

And yeah, if GC manage to hit big homerun.. no matter there is many skeptic opinion around it, Araki only gonna get better reputation.
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Old 2011-10-19, 14:50   Link #808
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If an anime Director is sincerely inspired by a previous anime work, and he's trying to make his anime be one similar to it, then I don't see why he shouldn't be honest about it.

To me, it's simple a matter of shooting straight with your anime's fans and viewers, and it doesn't necessarily require a huge ego.

Honestly, I'd rather anime Directors be up-front about the material that helps to inspire their works, from other anime shows to books to live-action movies to whatever.
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Old 2011-10-19, 15:35   Link #809
Tsukou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
Everyone keep saying "generic" this, generic this blablabla
but in fact not in every season you can see this kind of mega project...
Sure you already see these kind of show before, mecha... school setting blablabla.. but the fact is this show appear like once in every what? once in every 2-3 years?

People must realize this kind of gimmick is the number one favourite for "popcorn hits" for otakus/casual anime watcher.
Its like mandatory doze of superheroes movie in Hollywood.

I'm not the biggest fan of premise either, but this "generic shit" ranting from the elitist is tiring. Just don't watch it, just one glance to poster/screenshot/whatever is enough to tell you what kind of show is this, popcorn hits with all kind of gimmicks.

If you can't enjoy it because its too cheap for you, just stay away from it.

Btw tbh watching the 1st eps is kinda painful for me, the script is dull n the pacing is awkward. but when I watch it for the second time without wearing my critics goggles, its very different experience... the show is more fun than I thought, the awkward pacing became entertaining because its speed, many eye candy there, etc.

This show is much better if you watch it just for fun.
Agreed, I watch it for the fun, with zero expectations. I don't care what directors/producers/writers or anyone says about their goals, I watch for what's infront of me, and if it keeps me entertained or focused on it, that's more than enough.

The first episode did what it's suppose to do. Make me want to see the second, and hopefully it fills in plot, and such, and makes me interested in the world.

It's like people love being dismissive over things, so they go out of their way to point out faults in a show. Obviously if you watch a show like that, you aren't going to enjoy the actual show, because all you're doing is an analytical approach to a show, like you would a book for a book report, where you have some english teacher telling you to appreciate the deep metaphorical values inherent in some passage, and since it's for a grade, you're unable to enjoy the book itself, but instead spend your hours writing over it, highlighting and "schematize" it. But that is a whole other story.
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Old 2011-10-19, 15:37   Link #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
If an anime Director is sincerely inspired by a previous anime work, and he's trying to make his anime be one similar to it, then I don't see why he shouldn't be honest about it.

To me, it's simple a matter of shooting straight with your anime's fans and viewers, and it doesn't necessarily require a huge ego.

Honestly, I'd rather anime Directors be up-front about the material that helps to inspire their works, from other anime shows to books to live-action movies to whatever.
Agreed.

But to re-emphasize something others have said, it is true we only have 1 ep thus far. Maybe things will become clearer (for better or for worse) as eps go along....
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Old 2011-10-19, 16:12   Link #811
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by Tsukou View Post
Agreed, I watch it for the fun, with zero expectations. I don't care what directors/producers/writers or anyone says about their goals, I watch for what's infront of me, and if it keeps me entertained or focused on it, that's more than enough.

The first episode did what it's suppose to do. Make me want to see the second, and hopefully it fills in plot, and such, and makes me interested in the world.

It's like people love being dismissive over things, so they go out of their way to point out faults in a show. Obviously if you watch a show like that, you aren't going to enjoy the actual show, because all you're doing is an analytical approach to a show, like you would a book for a book report, where you have some english teacher telling you to appreciate the deep metaphorical values inherent in some passage, and since it's for a grade, you're unable to enjoy the book itself, but instead spend your hours writing over it, highlighting and "schematize" it. But that is a whole other story.
Or people could just be genuinely annoyed by the writing and pacing. I watched the first episode of Last Exile with the same expectations I had for Guilty Crown, and I really enjoyed that.
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Old 2011-10-19, 16:13   Link #812
Reckoner
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People make it seem like those people who were critical of the episode didn't enjoy what they saw or are already tossing this anime in the garbage bin. Chill. No one really is going that crazy over it so no need to beat up invisible forces or strawmans.

I don't exactly sit there taking notes during a show and marking off points every time I see something that doesn't fit my criteria of quality. I watch it, have a reaction to it, good or bad, then try to reason out why I felt that way. Being critical, or trying to reason out your likes or dislikes doesn't inhibit or limit one's enjoyment. Understand that.
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Old 2011-10-19, 16:16   Link #813
totoum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
I think what Araki meant is he want GC became his breakout title, not he wanting GC became the next GiTS.
Yeah what I took from that is not that he wants to do an anime like GiTS,but rather that Araki wants this to be an anime that's still talked about years from now like GiTS.
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Old 2011-10-19, 16:52   Link #814
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Did he really care much about her though?

It seems to me from the first scene his main quest is this inner inferiority-complex and the girl is merely a side-quest that gains him some points to feed his inferiority complex. It could have been a stray dog for all it's worth, judging by his "determination" there. It's like he's tacking revenge against the blow earlier to his ego; and it's pretty damn explicitly portrayed as such from my POV—I guess others would see it as OMG-heroic or "selfless" act, but I don't. Still, he obviously likes the girl, but aside from sex appeal I don't know if there's really anything else there. He doesn't even seem to have a clue what the resistance is doing much less sympathize with them. We probably understand better then he does at this point. The fact he acted after Gai's words just raises more flags of him being a prideful selfish emo-kid that only cares about his ego and inferiority complex.
I think its hard to say without knowing what factors are the root of Shu's issues. He may just be overly self-conscious of other people's perception of him; he may have some typical traumatic story that this foreshadows which the writers can tweak and flesh out with dumb little tidbits ; maybe he used someone or some people in the past and--tie in to the title--carries guilt through now.
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
People make it seem like those people who were critical of the episode didn't enjoy what they saw or are already tossing this anime in the garbage bin. Chill. No one really is going that crazy over it so no need to beat up invisible forces or strawmans.
Would be nice if more people on the Gundam forum could be so open-minded .
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Old 2011-10-19, 16:54   Link #815
fertygo
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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Or people could just be genuinely annoyed by the writing and pacing. I watched the first episode of Last Exile with the same expectations I had for Guilty Crown, and I really enjoyed that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
People make it seem like those people who were critical of the episode didn't enjoy what they saw or are already tossing this anime in the garbage bin. Chill. No one really is going that crazy over it so no need to beat up invisible forces or strawmans.

I don't exactly sit there taking notes during a show and marking off points every time I see something that doesn't fit my criteria of quality. I watch it, have a reaction to it, good or bad, then try to reason out why I felt that way. Being critical, or trying to reason out your likes or dislikes doesn't inhibit or limit one's enjoyment. Understand that.
I think everyone can differ which one that make critic n which one that bash for the shit out of it.

The only problem is people that behave like elitist, bashing bout this is cheap blahblahblah
Hell the cheapness is the premise, so why its need to mentioned over and over again with massive ranting.
Its typical bashing from "classy" people that like oscar movies, classy music, to popcorn movies or the recent mtv hits.
This kind of "critic" is totally useless, even people that like it know these kind of stuff is "cheap" but they enjoy it anyway.
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Old 2011-10-19, 16:56   Link #816
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Before I forget (apologies if it has already been asked and answered btw) ... does anyone know the official release date of the "Euterpe" song which was at the beginning of Ep 1?
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Old 2011-10-19, 17:10   Link #817
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
Would be nice if more people on the Gundam forum could be so open-minded .
Yes because I clearly said people were not allowed to criticize that show? If you are talking about specific comments I made over there, you're welcome to bring them up to me in VM/PM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
This kind of "critic" is totally useless, even people that like it know these kind of stuff is "cheap" but they enjoy it anyway.
Indeed we shouldn't walk into a show such as this and start railing against it because it wasn't as deep as a show like Serial Experiments Lain or whatever else, but even these types of shows should not be absolved from the critical eye.

For example in Hollywood I'd really have to roll my eyes at anyone who didn't think movies like Noland's The Dark Knight or Inception were not much better pieces of entertainment than something like Iron Man II or "Insert random bad blockbuster here."

Guilty Crown is representative of what a summer "hollywood" blockbuster movie is like, but it's also possible to have better standards for which provides the better what I like to call "light" entertainment.
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Old 2011-10-19, 17:23   Link #818
Kurosu
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Hm, I was there during the Q&A, I remember him saying he wanted the feel of GITS and Eden of the East but I recall the context being in terms of scenery. He said there will be similarities between those two, and it isn't really such a problem with him making homages and imitating a certain style right? I thought the first episode was kinda neat, but the second episode felt a little better, I think it was a good idea to show both episodes in the screening.
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Old 2011-10-19, 21:24   Link #819
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- Supercell's doing Egoist's music throughout, OST's coming out next year.
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Old 2011-10-19, 21:34   Link #820
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by Flower View Post
Before I forget (apologies if it has already been asked and answered btw) ... does anyone know the official release date of the "Euterpe" song which was at the beginning of Ep 1?
It's on the "Departures" ED CD, which comes out 30 November. Amazon Japan
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