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Old 2011-04-20, 18:30   Link #121
recover
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What is it?
All the background/extra MALE characters in anime series with a school setting are the same. Perverted, extremely immature, virgins. They place all women on an incredibly high pedestal.

Worst offenders?
Every anime with a school setting. The most recent one I saw "Seto No...something" divided a school between supporting two girls in almost a WAR like fashion.

What makes it popular?
Not a clue. Unless Japanese writers LOVE to portray Japanese men as...quite pathetic.

Reason for the hate?
It's expected in most series and it is pretty intolerable.

Example,

"Enter beautiful girl walking down hallway"
"30x men follow her making comments about her 3 sizes and how they would die for her"

Facepalm.jpg

Is the hate worth it?
Yes, because it does nothing to further plot, nor does it improve character development.

Hell, it is character RECESSION :P
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Old 2011-04-20, 21:10   Link #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recover View Post
What is it?
All the background/extra MALE characters in anime series with a school setting are the same. Perverted, extremely immature, virgins. They place all women on an incredibly high pedestal.

Worst offenders?
Every anime with a school setting. The most recent one I saw "Seto No...something" divided a school between supporting two girls in almost a WAR like fashion.
You'd really like Level E. Even guys of tertiary importance have distinctive personalities.
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Old 2011-04-21, 06:05   Link #123
Echoes
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Originally Posted by recover View Post
What is it?
All the background/extra MALE characters in anime series with a school setting are the same. Perverted, extremely immature, virgins. They place all women on an incredibly high pedestal.
I actually brought up this same cliche a couple of pages ago, more or less; it's definitely a blight on the already over-crowded school setting.

They seem to be there only to work as a counterweight to the usually extremely sexually disinterested male (often harem) lead, and fill the show's sexual joke/advances quota without actually having any romantic (God forbid!) progress.
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Old 2011-04-21, 20:02   Link #124
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Originally Posted by Kameruka View Post
What it is?: The lead girl have tendency to pick cold-hearted guy who openly hates her than nicer ones who openly accepted her.

Worst offenders: Almost every popular shoujo titles had this. Hell, even Yumeiro Patissire(which I loved) is not safe from it.

Notable exceptions: None. I hate all those cold-hearted guys with passion.
But it's not like they're HORRIBLE people-in fact they end up caring very much about the girl in the end so I don't really see why you'd hate them so much?

Quote:
What makes it popular: Girls always find cold-hearted, rebellious and just downright bad guys as more interesting partners while nicer ones are boring and too orthodox. In fact most shoujo anime and manga revolves on how the girl to get along with the cold-hearted guy.
But they're NOT actually cold-hearted. They just aren't verbally honest about their real feelings.

Quote:
Reason that I hated it: It just annoying to see how stupid the lead girl try to obtain something she will never have
What do you mean by "never have"? She ALWAYS wins his heart, duh. XD In fact, 9/10 times the very REASON he acts mean to her is because he already likes her. So saying "the girl is stupid for trying to be friends with him" is a very stupid statement itself when he's already flirting with her.

Quote:
Maybe the better solution is try to convince shoujo authors to abandon this concept and make a new one.
That'll never work because way too many shoujo-lovers love this trope. Including me. It's simply too popular and it's also cute. Character development is fun to watch, simple as that.
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Old 2011-04-21, 20:05   Link #125
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recover View Post
What is it?
All the background/extra MALE characters in anime series with a school setting are the same. Perverted, extremely immature, virgins. They place all women on an incredibly high pedestal.

Worst offenders?
Every anime with a school setting.
I have two words for you: Angel Beats
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Old 2011-04-21, 21:30   Link #126
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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
But it's not like they're HORRIBLE people-in fact they end up caring very much about the girl in the end so I don't really see why you'd hate them so much?



But they're NOT actually cold-hearted. They just aren't verbally honest about their real feelings.
It can be done well, but off hand the only good example I can think of with this trope is Kobato. where it was enjoyable to watch their relationship, though Kobato's male lead was still shown to be a kind thru other means if he was harsh or cold to Kobato herself at times. So I can't say if it's the show's execution of the trope that made it good, or if it's not bad that .
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Old 2011-04-21, 22:38   Link #127
Chiibi
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I personally never find the trope to be done "badly", to be honest with you.

Of course some mature shoujo manga cross over the line from mere taunting or aloofness to straight-up abuse, and that's when I defend a guy no longer.
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Old 2011-10-20, 01:49   Link #128
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I've got another one:

The fact that it can never be helped. Apparently the Japanese are really helpless. Or something.
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Old 2011-10-20, 05:57   Link #129
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What is it: Main characters that don't stand up for themselves.

Worse Offenders: Kore wa Zombie, Desu ka, Index/Railgun, Zero no Tsukaima, Asu no Yoichi, Love Hina, Fullmetal Panic, and Oreimo.

Notable Expectations: Sasha from Seikon no Qwaser is a good example. Walks into bathroom, girl throws stuff at him and makes the effort to dodge and makes snide remarks about it. For a 13 year old kid, he rocks.

What Makes it Popular: How we get to see ways the main character lands himself in that situation and what he'll do or say to appease the wrath of the heroine he's angered, to create the comical overtone.

How I Hate It: They just take the abuse and shrug it off as if it never happened, and never stick up for themselves. They're nice guys who do so much for people/heroines, but never get the respect or treatment they deserve. Patience is a good thing but there's a limit to how one should put up with things that keep happening just because of just cause.

Is This Hate Worth It: I don't know because it's a popular recurring theme and as much as I hate it, I do find it funny. The main character just continues to be the punching bag and all we, the fans, can do is cheer for them and see how they'll continue to live or overcome the abuse they receive.
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Old 2011-10-20, 09:02   Link #130
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What is it?
A supporting girl character (usually as childhood friend) who like and always follow the main guy even though it’s not a harem anime.

Worst Offenders
:
Animes like Kindaichi, Detective Conan, Cooking Master Boy, Bakugan, the recent Beyblade, Gundam AGE (so far), Webdiver, Rockman EXE, Blue Dragon, and MANY more.

Notable exception:
Hikaru no Go (I don’t know, maybe coz Hikaru’s girl friend doesn’t get much screen time?), Bleach & Naruto (Orihime & Hinata don’t always follow Ichigo & Naruto. They have a live), Pokemon (the female supporting characters have the goal of their own. They don't just follow Satoshi)

Variants:
I’m not sure. Maybe a girl character that like to stalk the main guy in any anime?

What makes it popular:
Nah, it’s just a way to give the main-guy an instant love-interest from the beginning (apparently, teenage boys adore the idea). Also, those supporting females provide the almost necessary jealous reaction when another girls catches the main guy’s attention (again, teenage boys adore this idea).

Reason that I hated it:
It’s pathetic. It’s as if those girls don’t have a life of their own outside of the main-guy circle and that main-guy is the absolute center of their universe(s). I pity those girl characters, really.

Does the hate really worth it?:
If my hates can reduce the numbers of pathetic characters like this being made more, then hell yeah!
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Old 2011-10-20, 16:08   Link #131
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Guilty Crown just reminded me of another one I forgot to mention.

Fanservice without Justification: I'm not against the sexualization of women or stuff like that, but there has to be a reason for fanservice when it occurs. Otherwise, it's just annoying and distracting, plus whenever it's done, it seems like the animation team isn't treating its audience like it has a brain. It's like they're saying, "Males love the female flesh, so let's up the views by putting it in". While you'll get somebody, you'll probably turn two people off in exchange. When people "sex sells", they don't mean you can just put the sex in there and expect it to sell. You need to put effort into it. And by effort, I don't mind animating how the female's boobs and butt shake. And don't get me started on fanservice for the female audience. I think the Twilight series is enough of a justification for why I don't like it when it's not integrated into the plot well.

Also, yes, Ken Akamatsu does this all the time. Well, most anime writers aren't Ken Akamatsu. They can't create a world where gratuitous fanservice is acceptable like he can.
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Old 2011-10-20, 19:23   Link #132
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What is it: Girls who are afraid of the main character or guys who are harmless

Worse Offenders: Working!! ,Ikamusume

Notable Expectations: None really

What Makes it Popular: I'm guessing their scaredy-cat personality makes moe fans want to protect them.

How I Hate It: It always annoys me when they act like that and the character most likely didn't do crap to them.

Is This Hate Worth It: Yes because it seems like those types of characters are multiplying by day.
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Old 2011-10-20, 20:48   Link #133
Echoes
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Originally Posted by Ichuki View Post
What is it: Girls who are afraid of the main character or guys who are harmless
I can understand why you'd find that annoying. It works both ways, though. There are a lot of male leads who are terrified of women. (Some of them even have pseudo-allergic reactions when they interact with them, most recently in Mayo Chiki, but it goes back at least to Girls Bravo.)

I think it's usually a fairly cheap plot device, but it can be put to good use as well. (As I would argue it was in Working.) As for invoking a sense of moe and wanting to protect them, I'm sure that's a valid hypothesis for the brunt of the cases, but damn, I'd want someone to protect me if I was up against Inami.
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Old 2011-10-22, 13:33   Link #134
kitten320
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I have a lot of those, let's see...

A pathetic main character - almost all recent action animes have a crybaby for a main hero. Notable examples are Deadman Wonderland and Mirai Nikki. I could relate with ganta at first but when he kept beong the same all 12/13 episodes it was just damn irritating. Just what is authors problem?! It isn't that hard to make a decent character who still can develop! After all we have so many cool side characters who also change and develop during the story! If you want a pathetic main character then at least make him progress isntead of being stuck in his pathetic mode throughtout 3/4 of the show!

Totally clueless characters
- those are mostly in school romance/harem shows. The girl is litterally going for mau heroes dick and he still doesn't get that she likes him! A notable example was Kampfer, I have never seen a bigger idiot than him -_-
Almost 90% of characters in Reborn series are 2 dimensional and abnormally stupid. It took Yamamaoto about 50-790 episodes to understand that it was not a game but real thing, just how damn dumb do you have to be?!

Random power ups - don't even get me started on this. The hero is getting his/her ass kicked and then out of thin air the main character pulls out some random power that totally destroys the bad guy in a second! Where is logic and consistence in that? What is so wrong for main character to lose or get help?! Almost every shounen has this problem.

Novice owns proffesional - almost same problem as above. A total noob with barely any experience owns a high class proffesional only because that's a main hero. Almost in any shounen show. I can understand some cases since exceptions happen even in real life but not when it is repetetive.

Main hero as centre of universe - I undersatnd that the title main hero is given for a reason but it doesn't mean that main hero has to litterally do EVERYTHING! Notable examples are Ichigo from Bleach and Natsu from Fairy Tail. No matter how many strng characters are around, even those stronger than the lead, it is always the main hero who kicks the boss. 10 strong people could not handle the boss but one main character totally owned it, how is it even possible?

It is your hidden potential - I damn hate thise one, it is the worst excuse ever created! It can be used once or twice but not all the time!

Seriouse looking anime with cheap solutions - the best way to describe it is for you to see 2nd episode of Mirai Nikki. It is really hard to take show seriously when you have rockets flying from under the skirt and motorcycle appearing from thin air =/

Big boss is an idiot - this is a stereotypical way of killing the bad guy. The bad guy can be really smart but once it comes to fighting someone important like main hero, they suddenly become the biggest idiots ever! The case I can't get over is Halibel VS Hitsugaya in Bleach. Before fraccions started to fight she told them to not understimate their opponents, guess what she did in her fight? Exactly the opposite and got her ass kicked!

Age - most of the anime characters are around 14 years old yet they act and get sexually involved like if they are 18 and more! Don't get me started on Air where main hero is 13 years old and gets sexually assulted by 18 year old Simca! Jus what is wrong with you Japan?! Is it that hard to make a character who is at lest 16-17 years old?
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Old 2011-10-22, 21:19   Link #135
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
I have a lot of those, let's see...

A pathetic main character - almost all recent action animes have a crybaby for a main hero. Notable examples are Deadman Wonderland and Mirai Nikki. I could relate with ganta at first but when he kept beong the same all 12/13 episodes it was just damn irritating. Just what is authors problem?! It isn't that hard to make a decent character who still can develop! After all we have so many cool side characters who also change and develop during the story! If you want a pathetic main character then at least make him progress isntead of being stuck in his pathetic mode throughtout 3/4 of the show!
I was really hoping that Ganta would man up after what he has been through with Deadman Wonderland. It only happened once, and it contradicts with your random power up cliche hate. He's personally experienced all these psychologically turning events while inside this criminal asylum that would surely just love to pit him in an arena to die for entertainment. Yet he still has this "Save me!" attitude.

Quote:

Totally clueless characters
- those are mostly in school romance/harem shows. The girl is litterally going for mau heroes dick and he still doesn't get that she likes him! A notable example was Kampfer, I have never seen a bigger idiot than him -_-
Almost 90% of characters in Reborn series are 2 dimensional and abnormally stupid. It took Yamamaoto about 50-790 episodes to understand that it was not a game but real thing, just how damn dumb do you have to be?!
Its all part of the main character's plan... Pretend to be dense, but when the time is right and enough heroines are generated. Create the ultimate harem!! Fwahahaha~ (but yes, an even worse example is Ichika from Infinite Stratos)

Quote:
Random power ups - don't even get me started on this. The hero is getting his/her ass kicked and then out of thin air the main character pulls out some random power that totally destroys the bad guy in a second! Where is logic and consistence in that? What is so wrong for main character to lose or get help?! Almost every shounen has this problem.
The moment the main character gets help in a shounen against the bad guy. Is the moment everyone's opinion about that main character is brought down (example would be Ichigo from Bleach before he went to the Vasto Lord's base. Where he kept getting beat up from Grimmjow, some other person I cant remember)
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Old 2011-10-22, 21:38   Link #136
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Seriouse looking anime with cheap solutions - the best way to describe it is for you to see 2nd episode of Mirai Nikki. It is really hard to take show seriously when you have rockets flying from under the skirt and motorcycle appearing from thin air =/
I don't Mirai Nikki is all that serious to be honest. It's more like a campy self-aware show on the same vein as Code Geass. I think that's why most people can enjoy the shallow characters. I will agree though that the motorcycle was pretty stupid.

Quote:
Age - most of the anime characters are around 14 years old yet they act and get sexually involved like if they are 18 and more! Don't get me started on Air where main hero is 13 years old and gets sexually assulted by 18 year old Simca! Jus what is wrong with you Japan?! Is it that hard to make a character who is at lest 16-17 years old?
Really? They seem to be all 16/17 to me. Also, what Air are you talking about? It's definitely not the "Key" one.
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Old 2011-10-23, 03:19   Link #137
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What is it?: Big/small breast complex

Worst offenders: Vast majority of anime with anything to do with relationships, especially harems. Way too many to count.

Notable exceptions: Ummm...

What makes it popular: Thinking with the wrong head. Writers can't think of anything else to fill up (i.e. waste) time with.

Reason that I hate it: Putting aside the fact that I think most big boobs in anime range from silly to utterly ridiculous, writers waste SO MUCH TIME over this nonsense. Every episode/chapter they have to waste several minutes of males being obsessed, and "OMG, you made a totally unrelated comment on something flat like a table, now I'm going to beat you up over it". Furthermore, lazy writers use it as an easy reset button to prevent relationships from ever getting anywhere (see Baka Test).

Is the hate really worth it?: Yes, if they would get over it, they could probably add another episode or more worth of content to an average season, as well as demonstrate that they are actually not totally clueless as to where they're going with relationships.

Last edited by Cannikin; 2011-10-23 at 03:49.
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Old 2011-10-23, 08:37   Link #138
Tiresias
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What is it?: Villains who got away with minor repercussions compared to their atrocities, just because of a bad childhood hastily tacked at the end due to them being fan/author favorites

Worst offenders: Nakago from Fushigi Yuugi, who despite doing nasty things for most of the story got a pass to heaven because he got abused as a kid...and excuse that was never implied before and only got hastily tacked at the end because the author grew attached to him

Notable exceptions: Animes where the villains gets properly punished (there's actually a lot, but I can't name any right now)

What makes it popular: Let's admit it, villains usually gets the bombastic dialogues, more cool-looking weapons, and leather pants. It's no surprise that fans and authors might like them more and more, leading to pressures to arrange a story-end that gives them happy endings.

It's not always bad, per se, but when villains that had done extremely nasty things get this treatment...f_ck!

Reason that I hate it: It's incredibly unfair to their victims. Moreso when the protagonists ignored that the villain massacred millions of civilians just because the millions have no names - a statistic.

Is the hate really worth it?: YES!

-----

What is it?: Wimpy protagonists with no initial compentence that only got into the conflict, and become awesome, because of meeting mysterious waifs/encounter with ancient artifacts/jumped into a fancy mech/etc (in short, because the plot says so!)

Worst offenders: The majority of shounen action stories, though the freshest in mind is Guilty Crown which ironically is being broadcasted in the noitaminA timeslot, usually reserved for audiences lying outside of typical anime-watching demographics (i.e. not shounen). Many Gundam and Macross "unwitting hero jumped into the cockpit" stories are also guilty for this

Notable exceptions: Full Metal Panic. The Lambda Driver is undoubtedly unique and mysterious, but Sousuke was already a competent mech operator and veteran soldier before getting the Arbalest

What makes it popular: Wish fulfillment. Most viewers are normal people themselves, so this set up allows them to dream that they too can be part of an epic story despite being "normal"...as soon as destiny calls

Reason that I hate it: It was fresh when Star Wars brought it to the big screen, but after countless similar set-up it gets really stale.

Is the hate really worth it?: For me, yes. Professionally trained heroes can be interesting too, you know. And why must heroes always depend on some fancy artifact or prophecy just to prove that they can be awesome?
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Old 2011-10-23, 09:00   Link #139
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I have a lot of those, let's see...

A pathetic main character - almost all recent action animes have a crybaby for a main hero. Notable examples are Deadman Wonderland and Mirai Nikki. I could relate with ganta at first but when he kept beong the same all 12/13 episodes it was just damn irritating. Just what is authors problem?! It isn't that hard to make a decent character who still can develop! After all we have so many cool side characters who also change and develop during the story! If you want a pathetic main character then at least make him progress isntead of being stuck in his pathetic mode throughtout 3/4 of the show!
Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. If you were an innocent boy and were suddenly thrown into a situation where you learn that being alive is a sin and that the whole world seems to be out to end your life as swiftly as possible in ways you cannot fathom, I'd like you to keep a straight face and not crack from the sudden shock, especially when you're cornered with no apparent way out. And I also doubt many of them can stomach seeing people die around them over and over again.

I'll admit it's annoying as hell to watch, but I think it's quite realistic overall, even if it's a bit overused.

Quote:
Seriouse looking anime with cheap solutions - the best way to describe it is for you to see 2nd episode of Mirai Nikki. It is really hard to take show seriously when you have rockets flying from under the skirt and motorcycle appearing from thin air =/
So, you find random phones being able to receive messages from the futures for no apparent reason to be serious?

Quote:
Big boss is an idiot - this is a stereotypical way of killing the bad guy. The bad guy can be really smart but once it comes to fighting someone important like main hero, they suddenly become the biggest idiots ever! The case I can't get over is Halibel VS Hitsugaya in Bleach. Before fraccions started to fight she told them to not understimate their opponents, guess what she did in her fight? Exactly the opposite and got her ass kicked!
I'm tempted to say, blame Hollywood for this. Seriously, find me any action movie i which the final boss looks like a badass, but gets his ass handed to him by the MC with relative ease because he boasts too much about how smart/strong he is and that the MC can never defeat him.

Quote:
Age - most of the anime characters are around 14 years old yet they act and get sexually involved like if they are 18 and more! Don't get me started on Air where main hero is 13 years old and gets sexually assulted by 18 year old Simca! Jus what is wrong with you Japan?! Is it that hard to make a character who is at lest 16-17 years old?
There are people like that, though. Nowadays, being a teenager at age 15 and NOT having had any form of sexual contact with the opposite sex is considered strange and abnormal by your peers. And a lot of teens have had actual sex before they reach Age of Consent.

If it involves a very young character, it's usually an underlying trauma that makes him/her the way he/she is, which also has relations to situations in real life: a lot of children become sexually active at very young age when they've been (sexually) abused themselves.

I see this more as a personal pet peeve than something that's wrong with an anime, or Japanese as a whole.
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Old 2011-10-23, 09:10   Link #140
kitten320
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I never included Deadman Wonderland in mu power-up rant =/
Though I definetly can include it in my "stupid boss" rant.

Flawnalyst
Mirai Nikki was just an example.

Yes, they do look and act like that but once you look at character profile, they all are around 14 years old, especially in shounen series =/
I was talking about Air series with roller skaters. In first episode it is said that main character is 13 years old. However, he totally does not look lie it and has an 18 year old pedophile after him whom he actually likes. I would expect an 18 year old girl have more brains -_-
Just who in the right mind would want to fuck a kid?

I also would like to add a typical shounen problem where main character is stronger than 1000 of soldiers, especially high rank soldiers. A great example right now is Naruto.
Exception is Berserk where main character killed 100 men alone. Considering how strong he physically is and the fact that he actually was barely standing after that, I can believe that. Exceptions do happen in life.

Lord of Fire
It is realistic only for some time. If bad things keep happening then there are two solutions:
1) You finally man up and do something
2) You die

No matter how you look at it, a total crybaby can't survive things like that forever especially when he/she is in the middle of all this mess.
I don't mind if some shows have such character but when this type of main character is in every second show, it is more than irritating because you keep seeing same thing over and over.


Seriouse doesn't mean that it has to be real. You can add as many fantasy elements as you want and still make it believable. Take Shiki for example, vampires don't exist! However, series keep the same mood during whole thing and don't have random rockets flying out of their pants. They've kept the mood from the begining till the end.


With showes like that you only urge kids to get sexually active because in their minds goes "The dude is as old as me or younger and he alreadyy had a girl! I can't fall behind!". It is shows like that which create 13 year old mothers because kids are idiots. If I'll ever have a pregnant, 13 year old daughter, I'll make her take responsibility to the fullest. There is no way I'll let her of the hook because of her foolishness.
A lot of kids nowadays think that if they'll get pregnant by chance, they can always leave the child to their parents and continue to fool around. LIKE HELL I'LL LET THAT HAPPEN! Be responsible till the end! But even better from the BEGINING!

Besides the biggest problem here is when it is a 14 and 20 year old characters, doesn't it ring any bells?
And most importantly, a 14 year old kid is not as smart as 25 year old, unless you are some sort of geniuse but it looks like we have them in almost each show.
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Last edited by kitten320; 2011-10-23 at 09:27.
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