AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Penguin Drum

Notices

View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 27 42.86%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 22 34.92%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 17.46%
7 out of 10 : Good 0 0%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 3.17%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.59%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-10-22, 23:27   Link #201
Dr. Casey
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Ah! those magic drugs again
Dr. Casey is offline  
Old 2011-10-22, 23:30   Link #202
mellomarie
fullblown technicolour
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Ah! those magic drugs again
how are they magical drugs tho? the drugs weren't even making her "consent", it was simply making her docile enough to tie up. i mean ringo didn't even look like she knew half of what was going on. her eyes were closed half the time and the words she was using during the phone call to shoma didn't sound like her own. she could easily be parroting words yuri has said earlier.

btw seduction is not "neutral or willing". when you are seduced, you are won over/persuaded. you cannot be neutral while being seduced, that's an oxymoron.
__________________
game of thrones | card captor sakura | misfits | honey & clover | breaking bad | NANA | the inbetweeners | afterschool nightmare | bokura ga ita | dexter |
mellomarie is offline  
Old 2011-10-22, 23:39   Link #203
Sackett
Cross Game - I need more
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by YayPepsi View Post
Take me back to the days of penguin hats and 2 eating everything and Rock Over Japan please. This episode was good, but very disturbing. Poor little Yuri. I'm glad we got to see Momoka finally.

My favorite part was the scene with Kanba, Sanetoshi, and Himari though. What's going on with them is interesting. It was nice that Kanba showed appreciation for Sanetoshi's actions. (Even if Sanetoshi is totally up to something.) Kanba's a class act. Their little conversation was the best part of the episode.

I actually found myself liking Natsume in this episode. So far she'd been my least favorite, but she's just so over the top! She's growing on me...even her silly catchphrase.
I agree. We need more Rock Over Japan!

This episode was so messed up it made my head hurt. Literally. LITERALLY! I now have a headache, and just took two aspirin.

What the heck am I doing watching this thing.

Plus, not only was the ugliness of this episode (meaning the ugliness of soul displayed by Yuri's father and the scars he left on her ) hurting my head, but then I suddenly realized that fate could be changing- are we even certain that all the episodes are on the same fate line?

What crazy insane plot holes could become actual plot due to them being signals that fate has changed? Do we need to go watch all the episodes again and see if the background changes?

For some reason I recall that actually happening in an early episode and everyone dismissed it as an animation error.

Was it? WAS IT!?

Now you know why my head is hurting.
__________________

Cross Game - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?
Sackett is offline  
Old 2011-10-22, 23:43   Link #204
Tjfarmer
I'm almost there!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bay Area, California
Age: 20
Send a message via AIM to Tjfarmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Plus, not only was the ugliness of this episode (meaning the ugliness of soul displayed by Yuri's father and the scars he left on her ) hurting my head, but then I suddenly realized that fate could be changing- are we even certain that all the episodes are on the same fate line?

What crazy insane plot holes could become actual plot due to them being signals that fate has changed? Do we need to go watch all the episodes again and see if the background changes?

For some reason I recall that actually happening in an early episode and everyone dismissed it as an animation error.

Was it? WAS IT!?
Unless there are multiple penguindrums, Ringo should've been the only one able to change fate the entire series, and I assume she wouldn't know the secret words to change fate.

Unless the secret word is Destiny, in which case everybody is fucked.
Tjfarmer is offline  
Old 2011-10-22, 23:46   Link #205
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
For some reason I recall that actually happening in an early episode and everyone dismissed it as an animation error.
I am pretty sure nothing has changed yet but OMG what if it has?...quick we better watch all the episodes again.


But ahem anyways to get a bit off the rape discussion I really liked the train metaphor in this or I should say subway metaphor. It is slightly different than Night on the Galactic Railroad because there a train is on a fixed track....

But on a subway you can transfer, I never really thought of that and I thought that was quite brilliant actually; and the price you pay is the price for the transfer.

But then I am thinking even if you keep transferring over and over the line still has to end at sometime....
__________________
Kirarakim is offline  
Old 2011-10-22, 23:48   Link #206
mellomarie
fullblown technicolour
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjfarmer View Post
Unless there are multiple penguindrums, Ringo should've been the only one able to change fate the entire series, and I assume she wouldn't know the secret words to change fate.

Unless the secret word is Destiny, in which case everybody is fucked.
would the stamp she used be the "spell"? i also wonder if sho being the guy she fulfilled "destiny" with during those earlier episodes ties in at all...
__________________
game of thrones | card captor sakura | misfits | honey & clover | breaking bad | NANA | the inbetweeners | afterschool nightmare | bokura ga ita | dexter |
mellomarie is offline  
Old 2011-10-22, 23:51   Link #207
Malkuth
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Age: 33
Send a message via MSN to Malkuth Send a message via Skype™ to Malkuth
OK medics, let's start about drugs that I tried:

Alcohol (I am 30 and used to be 20) -> Unless you are trying to destroy your here and now your liver, you are just getting more emotional, which means if you don't like something you simply freak out, and if you have moral inhibitions you get over them do what the fuck you wanted to.

Sleeping Pills (because work and real life can be extremely stressful) -> Well you sleep, and given enough stimulus, like someone fucking you, you might wake up (depending on the kind, quantity and physique) (but was not the case with Ringo), but after they wear off you are just sleepy (again depending on psysique, specifically blood pressure).

Hashish and the likes (because I also tried higher education) -> When I tried it, apart from feeling like crap, I was hypersensitive to everything, but I heard reaction vary depending on the person's current mental state... in all cases you have slow but exaggerated reactions, so you might not be able to avert someone tying you up, but definitely you you swell his balls by complaining about it.

Now from what I heard or observed:

Sedatives -> pretty they knock you unconscious, you are nauseous after you regaining consciousness, with a good headache, and your private parts hurt like hell if in between someone raped you, in any case you will be definitely in a position to complain and react.

Stimulants -> OK, if someone manages to rape/coerce/seduce (pick one) someone high on those stuff, he must be a master, and beyond your laws, because not only the guys and chicks on them over-react, but will probably kill you right then and there if you try anything they don't approve of.

But then you have your Hollywood, hentai, and ultra-conservative campaign drugs that somehow make a composed person turn into a mindless drone susceptible to any lecherous suggestion :/

Sorry for the sarcasm, but you are not making it any easier

@Sackett: Despite totally disagreeing with your post, you raised a subject that I am more interested in discussing than setting up a common law court on AS... Yuri's father and his behaviour, background, motivation, etc.

Last edited by Malkuth; 2011-10-22 at 23:54. Reason: merging replies
Malkuth is offline  
Old 2011-10-22, 23:52   Link #208
Tjfarmer
I'm almost there!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bay Area, California
Age: 20
Send a message via AIM to Tjfarmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellomarie View Post
i also wonder if sho being the guy she fulfilled "destiny" with during those earlier episodes ties in at all...
I was just thinking about this.

Why is it that the diary always told Ringo's future? Because the reason why Momoka died was because the last fate transfer she did involved saving Ringo's life/causing her to be born! So from them on, the diary showed the complete life of the person she saved, Ringo.

Thats my theory for now, at least.
Tjfarmer is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 00:00   Link #209
Crontica
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: My Desk
SUCCUBUSES DO NOT USE DRUGS TO SEDUCE PEOPLE! STOP THIS NONSENSICAL ARGUMENT! bbb
__________________
Crontica is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 00:07   Link #210
Slick_rick
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
OK medics, let's start about drugs that I tried:

Alcohol (I am 30 and used to be 20) -> Unless you are trying to destroy your here and now your liver, you are just getting more emotional, which means if you don't like something you simply freak out, and if you have moral inhibitions you get over them do what the fuck you wanted to.

Sleeping Pills (because work and real life can be extremely stressful) -> Well you sleep, and given enough stimulus, like someone fucking you, you might wake up (depending on the kind, quantity and physique) (but was not the case with Ringo), but after they wear off you are just sleepy (again depending on psysique, specifically blood pressure).

Hashish and the likes (because I also tried higher education) -> When I tried it, apart from feeling like crap, I was hypersensitive to everything, but I heard reaction vary depending on the person's current mental state... in all cases you have slow but exaggerated reactions, so you might not be able to avert someone tying you up, but definitely you you swell his balls by complaining about it.

Now from what I heard or observed:

Sedatives -> pretty they knock you unconscious, you are nauseous after you regaining consciousness, with a good headache, and your private parts hurt like hell if in between someone raped you, in any case you will be definitely in a position to complain and react.

Stimulants -> OK, if someone manages to rape/coerce/seduce (pick one) someone high on those stuff, he must be a master, and beyond your laws, because not only the guys and chicks on them over-react, but will probably kill you right then and there if you try anything they don't approve of.

But then you have your Hollywood, hentai, and ultra-conservative campaign drugs that somehow make a composed person turn into a mindless drone susceptible to any lecherous suggestion :/

Sorry for the sarcasm, but you are not making it any easier
To be quite honest your being very simplistic and making a lot of assumptions about how someone will behave in certain states. The truth is you don't really know how they will behave nor do they. Their ability to make judgement becomes compromised and they basically react randomly and irrationally. They aren't able to make conscious decisions that they have thought through.

In that state what does it matter how they react? In that state of mind you can get that person to do anything because they aren't able to discern right from wrong, what they want from what they don't. They more often than not just follow the lead of someone else for a lack of ability to know their own.
__________________
Slick_rick is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 00:11   Link #211
Sackett
Cross Game - I need more
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 35
All you all trying to argue that slipping something into someones drink so that you can ply them into having sex is not rape but instead seduction or something as long as the victim seems enjoying it... Shut up!

Causing another person to ingest a mind-altering drug without their consent is battery plain and simple. That alone is a crime.

If a person did that in order to have sex with the victim, then it is rape. Period. That's it. This is not in any way a gray area under the law.

(And this doesn't even enter into the fact that Ringo is underage and therefor subject to age of consent laws).

Now if Ringo had chosen to partake of a mind altering drug- then maybe you could argue that it's not legally rape on the grounds that she accepted the consequences on the mind altered state. Of course, it would still be immoral and unethical to take advantage of a girl in that condition.

But really... you're going to spend post after post trying to defend slipping drugs into another person's drink as a seduction tactic?

WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?

"There are no such magical drugs" blah blah blah. Guess what, it's a crime to spike the punch bowl. Just alcohol alone is enough. Alcohol removes your inhibitions. Now if you choose to drink alcohol to remove your inhibitions, okay. But if someone causes you to unknowingly drink alcohol, that person does not then get to give the defense "but she wanted it".

Hell, Ringo could be ripping off Yuri's clothes, screaming about how she wants it, and it would still be rape.

Why? Because her inhibitions have been artificially removed without her consent.

There is no "you subconsciously wanted this underneath those inhibitions, so you actually deserved it" defense. Inhibitions are part of us, and are not somehow invalid or subject to being dismissed as unimportant by other people. Having our inhibitions removed does not "reveal your true self" or any of that crap. Drugging someone to remove their inhibitions is an act of violation of the victim's self determination, and driven by a desire to dominate and control another person.

It's not any surprise it tends to be combined with rape.
__________________

Cross Game - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?

Last edited by Sackett; 2011-10-23 at 00:37. Reason: Toned down a bit, but really, I'm still rather hot about this
Sackett is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 00:25   Link #212
serenade_beta
マジ天使
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Also my first thought... by the way, maybe you should resurrect your sparkling avatar from Shigofumi, I loved it
I would, for this occasion, but I already have plans for my next avatar, so I'll have to put him on hold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Eh? his wife broke his heart, people have lost it for far less
Haha, true. Such as their idol not being a virgin.
Though what I want to know is how she broke his heart. He never says why. For instance,
Spoiler for Shigofumi anime:
I'm hoping some explanation will be given for how he got to this level.
__________________

-Tried to start a blog --> http://tdnshumi.blogspot.com/ (Mainly about video games)
-R.I.P. Hiroshi Yamauchi, Gaming wouldn't have been the same without you (9/19/13)
serenade_beta is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 00:35   Link #213
Sackett
Cross Game - I need more
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I am pretty sure nothing has changed yet but OMG what if it has?...quick we better watch all the episodes again.
Actually... Tabuki's scars might be... something that weren't there in early episodes, but appeared later...

Gah....
__________________

Cross Game - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?
Sackett is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 00:36   Link #214
Malkuth
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Age: 33
Send a message via MSN to Malkuth Send a message via Skype™ to Malkuth
Skipping flames...

Quote:
Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
I would, for this occasion, but I already have plans for my next avatar, so I'll have to put him on hold.
Oh! you are going to betray the glorious Japanese Unifier... shame on you

Quote:
Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
Haha, true. Such as their idol not being a virgin.
Though what I want to know is how she broke his heart. He never says why. For instance,
Spoiler for Shigofumi anime:
I'm hoping some explanation will be given for how he got to this level.
Spoiler for Shigofumi:
But yeah, concerning PinkuPengu-drum, I hope they elaborate more into the past events during the remaining episodes, be it Yuri's, Ringo's, or Himari's families.
Malkuth is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 00:50   Link #215
YayPepsi
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Actually... Tabuki's scars might be... something that weren't there in early episodes, but appeared later...

Gah....

:O I never thought about that. Whoa. It would be awesome if that was intentional!
__________________
YayPepsi is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 01:15   Link #216
risingstar3110
Dead Master ★ BRS
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Firstly i want to mention that we are arguing for the sake of arguments here, so don't get so heated up and bring personal attack into play. I means if we can't agree to discuss on a (sensitive) topic over the internet, then it will forever be forbidden to be challenged outside (there is no universal morality when it comes to rape, and there is more gray parts than you think). I means would it please you more if i say "I agree with everything you say", while I do not?

Secondly, i think our current debate is not on whether "forcing someone into sex without their consensual consent is not rape". Of course it is rape in that case. Our debate has been mostly on whether the case of Ringo's consent (not only for sex, but for calling up Shouma and belittle/blame him a bit) is valid or not.

In this case, on one side, most notably Kirarakim stand was on "No, it's not. She was still heavily affected by the drug,so her consent or even what she said on the phone was influenced by the drug and Yuri. It's out of RIngo character to say such things". While in other, if i understand correctly, Malkuth has been stating that "Ringo has been in a clear state of mind enough to make her consent valid. The only reason if she does not resist Yuri's advance, it will be because she was seduced by Yuri into the idea. What Ringo say on the phone is totally within Ringo's character and even a proof that Ringo's mind was clear enough to pull them up". I have always said that the next episode will solve up this argument rigth away (the way Ringo react in Yuri or Shouma's presence for example). But at this moment, i still think both points are valid until proven.

Not only so, we also have the debate over deontological and utilitarianism moral of the issues. I means Kazu-kun and some other probably have got a little bit heat on this as well. And that's how real life is on the issue . Some will trust that as long as the partner approve the idea in the end, then the forceful advance at the beginning can be justified. Because to them after all a rape is not a rape if no one acknowledge it to be one (another philosophical debate). Others may not do it no matter what because it against their moral principles/ set of rules. To them , even if all party agree in the end,the intention was still out there, and should be condemned

But in the end, rather than black and white, it's quite grey and everyone has their own principle to follow up and be responsible for.
__________________

Last edited by risingstar3110; 2011-10-23 at 01:44.
risingstar3110 is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 01:48   Link #217
creb
Hiding Under Your Bed
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
You guys have now spent 10/11 pages talking about the definition of rape. I think it's far past time you all ask for a new thread titled "What is Rape?" so something...anything else could have a chance to be discussed.

But, that's just my opinion, and I will return in another 10 pages to see if the topic has moved on yet.
creb is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 01:50   Link #218
Malkuth
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Age: 33
Send a message via MSN to Malkuth Send a message via Skype™ to Malkuth
Or shut the fuck up and talk about the episode
Malkuth is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 02:12   Link #219
risingstar3110
Dead Master ★ BRS
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
You guys have now spent 10/11 pages talking about the definition of rape. I think it's far past time you all ask for a new thread titled "What is Rape?" so something...anything else could have a chance to be discussed.

But, that's just my opinion, and I will return in another 10 pages to see if the topic has moved on yet.
We didn't spend 10-11 pages on the definition of rape through. It's easy to heat up about random topic on the internet, but we are not that ridiculous....

.....yet

It's a bit hard to avoid the elephant in the room through. I means we can discuss on why did Yuri go for bondage? She does not look like a S for me

@Malkuth: did your age increase by one since yesterday? I thought you were 30?
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline  
Old 2011-10-23, 02:15   Link #220
Hooves
♣~Sleepy~♣
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 20
Send a message via Skype™ to Hooves
Oh wow, defining rape really took quite the amount of pages Either way, Yuri's past was just a slap in the face. The moment her expectations that her father would accept her "kind" friend shattered the moment he said that she shouldn't trust Momoka and broke that beautiful music that was playing.

But this episode was nice with the new opening, and a clear view on Momoka's character during Yuri's past.
__________________
MyAnimeList (Hoovesahoy)
Avatar from: Hooves
Signature from: Patchy
Hooves is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.