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Old 2011-10-26, 13:07   Link #41
creb
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Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam View Post
Translating those Japanese words that I understand:

The old man with the cigar:
-Something about his profile about an "old nation". Also something about "pirates". I think the profile also says that he's "straightforward and frank"?
A third faction seems highly likely seeing as we've already seen friction within the Federation forces in Episode Two. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money, since this is Gundam, that the head honchos of the Federation are out-to-touch old men who will not take the fact that Grodek pirated their next-generation battleship from their handpicked henchmen. The mothership + Gundam almost always is its own faction, even if it is fighting alongside the Feddies or whatever other version of them you look at in previous Gundams.

So, spending some time with some pirates doesn't seem unlikely.
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Old 2011-10-26, 14:06   Link #42
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Sinc e it seems like we are going to be kept in the dark concerning the UE beyond what there MS look like I wouldn't be surprised if several additional factions endup showing up to add some depth.
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Old 2011-10-26, 14:09   Link #43
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Besides, we need something that the Genoace can kill in a fight.
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Old 2011-10-26, 14:33   Link #44
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Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
I think the Aliens are humans who other humans forgot. Humans that developed in deep space.
I am hoping for something like this. When 00 was revealed I was banking it would have gone in that direction, but instead... I really want want to forget about that series.
But I want differently evolved human, maybe a new race that composes only of female, that are abducting male humans for reproduction reasons... forgot that the story needs to be a bit child friendly ^^
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Old 2011-10-26, 14:33   Link #45
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Biological father? Uh... lol no.

http://www.zeonic-republic.net/?p=1392

Latest info.
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「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2011-10-26, 14:46   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Besides, we need something that the Genoace can kill in a fight.
We don't know if Genoace flashlight um I mean beam spray gun can kill any of those 4 new MS I would hope so but you never know.
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Old 2011-10-26, 15:15   Link #47
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Biological father? Uh... lol no.

http://www.zeonic-republic.net/?p=1392

Latest info.
I have to say some of those names are inspiring Don Voyage, Lacto and Maddoner. Hino must have use the same name generator as SE
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Old 2011-10-26, 19:18   Link #48
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Sweet, from sounds of those two episodes, we might get some MS vs MS battle scenes.
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Old 2011-10-26, 22:39   Link #49
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Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Spoiler for G-Exes, Shaldoll, Zaku Types (Clear Scan):
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Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
Biological father? Uh... lol no.

http://www.zeonic-republic.net/?p=1392

Latest info.
Considering this translation and that the pilot/ms scans are consecutive pages in the magazine, the G-EXES and Shaldoll might be Mardonell Workshop's custom units, thus another point that they're not for mass production. The EFF is stuck with Genoace II.

http://www.zeonic-republic.net/?p=1296

Another translation, Wolf behaving like Bernard Monsha of 0083. I'm sure Flit will not readily give up the AGE-1 this time unlike episode 1.
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Old 2011-10-26, 22:45   Link #50
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if UE can go back time, why won't they go back even further to destroy the threat once and for all? Time travel is supposed to be the ultimate weapon that can bend all the rules XD

not buying it, but won't be surprised if it's true...i don't like time-travelling story tho...too many plothole usually on those stories XD
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Old 2011-10-26, 22:49   Link #51
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
if UE can go back time, why won't they go back even further to destroy the threat once and for all? Time travel is supposed to be the ultimate weapon that can bend all the rules XD
What if they can't? Or what if they couldn't know the threat source?
Can go back time doesn't mean they can go back to whatever time frame they want.
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Old 2011-10-27, 09:09   Link #52
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"Don't know the whereabouts of the enemy" would be the most valid reason..

Other reasons, like "couldn't go back further" "can't go to any time frame" etc are not as convincible imo, and that's why I don't like those time-traveling story in general...you just have to believe what they said...

It's too early...still just a speculation...tho it would be funny that if the speculation is true, UE decides to go back to the exact year when Flit is born XD

P.S actually when i think about it more, if UE really wants to advance the tech in the past time, why do they have to destroy the damaged suit in episode 1 so earthling can't get the tech?
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Old 2011-10-27, 10:53   Link #53
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I'm going to quote myself again.

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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
See the current state of humanity? Even if one or two colony got destroyed, people still act as if it doesn't relate to them, since it happened from somewhere faraway.

Technology isn't the only problem. There are 2 situations if they do what you suggested:

1. Humanity destroy themselves because their technology developed too fast.
2. Humanity managed to defeat the UE too soon, thus lead to another peaceful time way before the time mark where they all got destroyed. History is going to repeat itself.

According to the leak, even with their current tech, the UE still got wiped out, so they need something stronger and more advanced, but such thing shouldn't be archived way too soon. We don't know if there is another AGE builder on UE side, which continuously obtain data from AGE, to improve their technology or not. Prolong the war could lead to technology advancing from both sides, which will help the future war.

Well, if everything is just someone bullshitting, then all of my point is moot, but that's what I'm thinking regarding the "leak".
And can't go back further is a valid reason. Technology always has its limitation at its current time. Could go back in time doesn't mean you could just go to any time frame you want, same as dimension jump, you just couldn't go to any world you want.
Before, people only dreamed of going to the moon, and you see now they are trying to go further than that? 50 years later, when humanity could go anywhere they want, there will be some ask "why did human could only go to the moon at that time?".
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Old 2011-10-27, 11:24   Link #54
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
P.S actually when i think about it more, if UE really wants to advance the tech in the past time, why do they have to destroy the damaged suit in episode 1 so earthling can't get the tech?
Because weapons and technology by themselves are meaningless, what counts is the people using them.
This was more or less explored in Turn-A, were they had the most overpowered technologies at disposal, yet barely scratched their potential, all protagonists being perfect amateurs, war having been unknown of for centuries if not millenia.

Examples of Turn-A overpowered tech:

Spoiler for Turn-A tech:
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Old 2011-10-27, 19:29   Link #55
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
And can't go back further is a valid reason. Technology always has its limitation at its current time. Could go back in time doesn't mean you could just go to any time frame you want, same as dimension jump, you just couldn't go to any world you want.
Before, people only dreamed of going to the moon, and you see now they are trying to go further than that? 50 years later, when humanity could go anywhere they want, there will be some ask "why did human could only go to the moon at that time?".
That's sort of silly, if you can move an entire army backwards in time, then nothing stops you from moving said army through time multiple times. Even if you can only do it for a limited range of times, you do it multiple times and can go all the way back to the start of time itself. Even if the machine only fires off once, just take the builders along and build another, over and over. Resources are not an issue since you are going backwards, all resources you used would be available again and again. (Similarly, with time travel mastered, not knowing the source of your doom also sounds silly to me. Even if the universe is infinite, you have an infinite amount of time (you can travel time after all) to find the source and destroy it before it becomes an issue. If that somehow proves impossible, you can plan ahead and know the exact instant your foe appears as a threat to you and destroy them the moment they appear... even if you are out gunned, surprise of that caliber should suffice; you'd have godlike clairvoyance on every possible military encounter. Or your foe is a time traveler too...) (With time travel, assuming same-universe, you can create an effectively infinite technological loop where you simply give yourself your future advancement ad infinitum until you reach some singular point of godliness. If many-world style time travel, then your original time is screw anyway and an alternate time line may never even have the same issues as yours.)

Time really isn't a technological advancement similar to any other, and I do not think can be fairly compared to it. Physical limitations do not apply to time travel once you have it mastered, whereas they do apply to space travel, flight, getting up in the morning, and just about everything else.

I'll be perfectly honest that a time travel plot will raise an eyebrow from me at the very least as it is the hardest type of plot in sci-fi to truly pull off without leaving plot holes.
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Old 2011-10-27, 19:52   Link #56
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The problem is you put too many assumption in your argument. Resource is a big problem, but you assume it's your usual type of resource that's available at any era. Secondly, why do they bother with time travel? Because "the Earth was destroyed" in the future. You assume they could do that multiple time, but take into account that everything was pulled in the desperation, otherwise who would choose time travel as a solution?

Beside, the reason they lose the war is really clear if Flit's generation indicates anything. It's way too peaceful, and I wouldn't be surprised if Earth was wiped out in the short amount of time, even before they know who's the threat.

People used to think creating human is god's work, didn't they? And now we could even do something as cloning. What makes you so sure that time isn't a technological advancement similar to any other?
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Old 2011-10-27, 20:50   Link #57
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I'll be perfectly honest that a time travel plot will raise an eyebrow from me at the very least as it is the hardest type of plot in sci-fi to truly pull off without leaving plot holes.
It is hard, but it's almost impossible if the audience assume things that have yet to be addressed by the show and then complain about plot holes when their assumptions are proven wrong.

So, assuming this spoiler is correct, I suggest you give the show a chance to explain the story first.
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Old 2011-10-27, 20:57   Link #58
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
The problem is you put too many assumption in your argument. Resource is a big problem, but you assume it's your usual type of resource that's available at any era. Secondly, why do they bother with time travel? Because "the Earth was destroyed" in the future. You assume they could do that multiple time, but take into account that everything was pulled in the desperation, otherwise who would choose time travel as a solution?

Beside, the reason they lose the war is really clear if Flit's generation indicates anything. It's way too peaceful, and I wouldn't be surprised if Earth was wiped out in the short amount of time, even before they know who's the threat.

People used to think creating human is god's work, didn't they? And now we could even do something as cloning. What makes you so sure that time isn't a technological advancement similar to any other?
I don't think I've made that many assumptions but let me answer what you've said anyway.

Resources, for a time traveler, are a non-issue (and are a non-issue for space fairing races as well) unless they travel so far into the future or backwards in time that either (a.) the universe had not yet started to form under baryogenesis or (b.) the universe had decayed into its lowest state. There is no such thing as a resource not available unless it runs out but that is not possible if you can travel backwards in time, and is only an issue in forward time travel or standard progression of the arrow of time. (Basic constituents of matter do not simply pop up out of nowhere at some point in time, they were either there for billions/millions of years or they weren't. We are talking a hundred year time span in this series which is less than the blink of an eye for the universe. For instance, even a rapidly generated organic compound (on planetary time scales) such as oil has existed since life existed which is billions of years. And while its specific molecular compound only came about because something died and turned into oil, the basis of it is carbon and any sufficiently advanced life form (especially one with prior knowledge of the compound, such as our UE with their supposed time traveling) would not be troubled to reproduce it.)

So either: resources is not an issue, or the resource came from the big bad and was made of some non-universe thing that simply did not exist anywhere in our known universe. But since you can time travel, and at the very least learned how to use the vastly alien resource to your advantage, you have an infinite amount of time within which to learn to reverse engineer said compound. I'll concede that if somehow this compound were made of something you could never, ever attain again, then sure, you are more or less hosed. But that begs the question....

What prevents the big bad from just traveling back in time with their own, likely infinite amount of, resource and use it to undo everything you did? If the resource is big bad limited, then any action you may do in time would be quickly rendered ineffective by an action by your enemy in time. It would be like playing Chrono Trigger with two people, both having the ability to time travel, and with the goal of disrupting one another. The game would never end.

Or...

Where the heck did it come from? And why at that particularly convenient point in time when you were facing your doom.

Now: Who would chose time traveling as a solution?
Answer: Me, and many other people. Time traveling is a power that encroaches on the so-called powers of God. You know the future, you can manipulate it to your liking. And as I previously said, the ability to time travel (even if only once, which really doesn't make sense to me because once you go backwards you can again find the thing that let you go backwards before, repeat this process forever if you must) provides you with the ultimate tactical advantage... and if you can't win with even that sort of clairvoyance... you're army is hopeless. The earth being wiped out really isn't an issue if you can time travel, again you have clairvoyance of the events that lead to said destruction, giving you unparalleled advantages should you go back in time and fight said battle all over again.

Cloning is cloning is again a physical thing, just as everything else you listed before. Time travel is not physical. Time does not occupy any physical area or thing, it is a concept that marks progression. Time is a concept closer to a logical truth than it is to anything tangible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
It is hard, but it's almost impossible if the audience assume things that have yet to be addressed by the show and then complain about plot holes when their assumptions are proven wrong.

So, assuming this spoiler is correct, I suggest you give the show a chance to explain the story first.
Not once have I said that I am writing off the show as I quite enjoy it thus far, I am simply bringing up issues that I can foresee occur.

Last edited by Vena; 2011-10-27 at 21:15.
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Old 2011-10-27, 21:23   Link #59
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Not once have I said that I am writing off the show as I quite enjoy it thus far, I am simply bringing up issues that I can foresee occur.
I didn't mean to say that you're writing off the show itself. I'm simply saying that plot holes are often made up by a disconnect between how the audience think things are supposed to be and how they actually are in a show.

For example, you think that resources are a non-issue. Why is that? Do you even know how they were even able to travel through time or the circumstances in which that occurred that you can say that resources are a non-issue? I don't think that you can say that you do. Bringing up these "issues" now when we don't even know the condition of the UE in Flit's time (let alone the condition 100 years from now other than the Earth being destroyed, at least, according to the spoiler) seems a bit pointless as there's no way to say one way or another whether your "issues" are even real.
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Old 2011-10-27, 21:34   Link #60
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For example, you think that resources are a non-issue. Why is that? Do you even know how they were even able to travel through time or the circumstances in which that occurred that you can say that resources are a non-issue? I don't think that you can say that you do. Bringing up these "issues" now when we don't even know the condition of the UE in Flit's time (let alone the condition 100 years from now other than the Earth being destroyed, at least, according to the spoiler) seems a bit pointless as there's nothing to say one way or another whether your "issues" are even real.
I'll ask you, what could resources mean aside from, well, material substances and/or energy of some magnitude? If someone can answer me that simple question and the two that follow, I will be at ease but I need an answer:

Given a resource, no matter what it is or its origin, if you can travel backwards in time (specifically to a point in time before you used the resource and while it still existed, say a few seconds before you used it in normal time) could you not simply continue looping time forever because you would always have said resource?

Now add to that question: Could you, with your future knowledge of just a few seconds, work with yourself over and over and over, until you have thousands of hours of experience with the material and time traveling, and in every iteration furthering your own technology ever so slightly. Even if one of 'you' may die, there would technically be an infinite number of yous available, all younger, to carry on your research?

Stargate (as bad a resource as that is) had an episode specifically on this concept, the whole of Ground Hog Day is built on this, and hell even Steins;Gate had elements of this, Chrono Trigger and Radiant Historia use this even. The moment you can go backward in time, is the moment creating a loop becomes an almost certainty.
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