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Old 2011-10-26, 13:06   Link #1201
Kaoru Chujo
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I don't know whether this is a "good" show or not, but I for one am enjoying the heck out of it so far.

Complaints about there being some cliches lying around don't mean much to me, since pretty well all of anime is based on running new variations of old memes. Complaints about the main character powering up too fast are reasonable, but that applies to many shounen shows, so I'm not sure why this show is getting so much negativity. Probably because there was some hype and there were high hopes -- and also perhaps because this is noitaminA, and is supposed to be different. Inori's dress and character and the noitaminA audience don't seem like a good fit.

I like this show for its stylishness, and I do find myself able to relate to the characters, little as we know of them so far. I'm not a fan of the plot or the situation, but I can go along and get something out of them. It's fantasy. And to me, the way the show is being directed gives it a verve and weight much greater than the script.

Personally, the shows I am most enjoying so far are Chihayafuru, Boku to Kimi, Ben-Tou, Last Exile, Tomodachi ga Sukunai, Mirai Nikki, Mashiro-iro Symphony and Guilty Crown. As for which shows are "good," I'd say the first six I named are definitely good shows, up to now.

But a lot of preference is personal preference, based on which kinds of characters and tropes one likes, and objectivity is hard to find. Hunter x Hunter is a good show, for sure, but my interest there is waning because the kiddy style and the situation aren't my thing.
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Old 2011-10-26, 13:17   Link #1202
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
It doesn't help that all the promotional material says Shu joins them, so if you were held in suspense, don't be.

...

2) We actually have two antagonist "factions" so far. GHQ. And the research group/corporation called Sephirah Genomics (whether the "Sepharic Tree" scrolling in the OP hints at their goal or not remains to be seen), that the male scientist and Shu's mom is a part of. Presumably, despite there being some cooperation between the two, Shu's mom is not an evil person and thinks what she and Sephirah Genomics is doing is for the greater good.
It is still very possible that he could eventually change sides or switch to a completely new one. 2 cour is a long time, and it would be interesting to see if he does. Also, since you mention that his mom is part of Sephirah Genomics, it is very possible that he joins up with them at some point due to this relation.

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Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
* Staying independent: probably not possible, since two armed and aggressive organizations are after him. I wouldn't be surprised if trying to do this will become a major pain for Shuu, if he finds out that there are schoolmates who are un/favorable to either group.
This is also a very credible scenario. It will allow him to switch sides at any point in time. So far, Shuu does not appear to possess any genius level intelligence, but he does appear to be growing in character. I expect a very different Shuu character by the end of the series.

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Originally Posted by creb View Post
4) Maybe they will come up with more "Genomes". If this was a long running shounen show like Bleach, I'd say it's guaranteed. It's two cour though, and since I suspect the Void Genome is intimately tied to the Apocalypse virus, I am not expecting the story to go that direction, but to stay focused on the Void Genome.
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Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
3 Void Genomes, one of which the MC has, and the other two are missing. Reminds me of Guyver and KR Faiz.
I almost forgot about the Guyver connection. That brings back fond memories.

As for the Genomes, there could already be previous types made, but Void is the ultimate form. Although unlikely, there is still a possibility of many Genome users later on. It is still a long series, afterall.

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Originally Posted by wm4 View Post
I guess it must be the last option. It is highly possible that Shuu will be in the same boat and working for Undertaker,
just like what Camille (Zeta Gundam), not an official staff of AEUG, had done before.
Yeah, I could definitely see that happening. He is not tied to any group right now, and with the way Gai is acting, I expect him to splinter from that group at some point. They may eventually have similar goals, but the method they choose to use will probably be different.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I could see Shu and Inori becoming a special ops team of sorts, that handles certain Undertaker missions that are best handled by a small two-person team.

Having there be a certain distance between Shu and the more "official" Undertaker group (now that they've gone a bit public, after all) could have real strategic and tactical advantages. Nice to have some hidden aces up your sleeve, so to speak.
It does not necessarily just have to be Shuu and Inori. Shuu has the ability to pull out weapons from a lot of different people (I wonder if he can do it to everybody), so he will probably team up with more people in order to diversify his weaponry. I strongly believe that he will eventually go to a group not affiliated with any of the groups we have seen so far (probably creating his own group).

Btw, I really like the "spunk" that Tsugumi has. Her youthful actions are very fun so far, if not a bit for fan-service.
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Old 2011-10-26, 13:28   Link #1203
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Old 2011-10-26, 13:29   Link #1204
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Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
@creb
Spoiler:
Seeing as she shows up in the flashbacks with Shu in Episode One, I'd hardly call it a spoiler. I suppose it could be a red herring though, and she turns out to have been his babysitter.
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Old 2011-10-26, 13:34   Link #1205
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
the male scientist and Shu's mom is a part of.
Has it been confirmed within the series that the woman is Shu's mom? I thought that so far it was just a well-reasoned expectation.

ETA: Near simultaneous posting about mom, I see.
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Old 2011-10-26, 13:36   Link #1206
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Originally Posted by LKK View Post
Has it been confirmed within the series that the woman is Shu's mom? I thought that so far it was just a well-reasoned expectation.
Well, outside of her holding on to him while he's blowing out his birthday candles, no, it hasn't explicitly been stated she's his mom. I just call her that because calling her 'Probably Shu's Mom' in lieu of a name takes longer to type than 'Shu's Mom'.

Edit: Saw your edit. Yup!
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Old 2011-10-26, 13:41   Link #1207
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It's completely unfair because they may not even be the same people in both fanbases. And if they are then it's better to ask them instead generalising entire fanbases. There's got to be like a hundred completely unrelated factors involved when saying that an entire fanbase should be consistent to another. I don't want to have to try and be consistent to a load of people I may or may not have similar views with and who I can not possibly be responsible for.
This is what I trying to point out. Listen to this man!

One cannot generalize one fan base to another, especially with so many factors at play. Even if there are a "significant" amount of posters in both threads, that significant amount might very well just have the same criticisms of both series.

I have hardly criticized Boku wa Tomodachi for example, but I have not rated that series any higher than this one. I have barely said anything about Mirai Nikki, but one of my posts there was a criticism of it, and I do indeed put that series behind this one.

Like people have said before. We had feelings about the first two episodes and we posted it. That's simply it. There's hardly anyone outright throwing this anime into the garbage or treating it like the worst thing of all time (Why would they be here still then?).
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Old 2011-10-26, 13:42   Link #1208
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Agreed.

By Guilty Crown getting hated on more than most average shows, the implicit point being made is that it's better to aim for mediocrity and achieve that than it is to aim for greatness and fall short (hence being a mediocrity, at worst).

The core message there is that anime studios should never aim for greatness, because you're better off just trying to be average, and pleasing some people that way. That's not a message that I think is a good one for the anime industry. As disappointed as I ultimately was with Angel Beats! and Star Driver, I'm still glad that P.A. Works and Bones (respectively) aimed for something special there, even if both shows did go off the rails a bit at times.
Been saying the same thing for years only substitute the name Guilty Crown with various other mecha/sci-fi shows.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Probably taking about Gundam AGE, lol.
Speaking of which, if you want to talk pure unabashed hate and not giving a show a chance Gundam Age may hold the all time record by now. Like this show has nothing on what that show had to deal with before it even aired let alone right now where things are actually a little improved....a little.
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Old 2011-10-26, 15:22   Link #1209
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Well after episode 2 i can say i am definitely interested in where this will go. So far the set up has been nice we establish an evil organization as the baddie and we established an underground fighting force/Resistance taking the baddies on. However, what i have no heard in depth is what is the end goal for the resistance. Besides stopping the all the pain, suffering and basically occupational forces currently in Japan. Also, im interested to know if the premises for why Japan in occupied is still in effect. So far i have not seen anyone who is in fact infected by this pathogen.

Shu is the typical reluctant hero who has stumbled into a war that he knows nothing about. He pure of heart but unsure of himself and if he actually has the abilities to help so many "what can someone like me do" attitude. Its not that hes apathetic to people he just sees himself as weak. Funny thing is he kind of wish for something like this maybe not in the current form but his wish for granted. Putting your life on the line for others is one of the most honorable undertakings a person can do in their life.

However at the end of episode he was turned down the offer to join. So whats the best way to persuade a teenage boy to join your cause. Put a hot ass girl in his high school class lol.

Im hoping this series takes more of serious tone and does spend majority of it in the high school aspect. I would like Shu grow as a man character development and story progression will be the most important things to me in this series as the animation has already proved to be top notch.
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Old 2011-10-26, 15:35   Link #1210
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
But a lot of preference is personal preference, based on which kinds of characters and tropes one likes, and objectivity is hard to find.
This is spot on. Since I've been personally called out as someone who was bashing Guilty Crown, I'm forced to comment a bit. Here's why I don't find this show interesting:

1. The main characters power. I simply do not find the notion of people turning into or becoming hammerspace storage for weapons appealing. This is largely because the person who becomes or holds the weapon often becomes less of a person and more of a thing to be used. Characterization tends to fail when this type of "power" is used, in my opinion.

2. The characters, so far, are not remarkable. How many stories have we seen with a male lead that is in school, not terribly popular, a bit of a recluse, has some emotional hangup, and just so happens to be in the right place at the right time and given some kind of incredible change in destiny? How many heroines have we seen that start out interesting and become sidelined as a "prop" that tags along with the male lead? How many stories have these two getting together romantically in some fated way? How many cool rebel leaders that kick ass, or obviously psychotic evil villains? Granted...it's only a few episodes, but there's barely any hint of something deeper with these characters.

3. The setting is pretty realistic, but the realism ends with the scenery. Where do you hide giant mechs in a city controlled by a massive occupation force? How does a lone girl get into, and steal from, a supposedly high security facility that contains a highly important object? Why would you enroll into a school and use your real name if you're a wanted terrorist? Can these things be explained later? Sure. But why not just show us rather than tell us?

4. Fanservice. Mechs. Idol Singer. Technology so awesome it's magic. I feel like I've seen all of these (and more) elements before.

These and a few other elements have put me off from enjoying the show, or at the very least, taking it as seriously as the initial premise suggested I should. Sometimes I can tolerate these elements, by themselves or together even....but in this particular package I don't find them appealing in the slightest.

You can either go for a universe that is plausibly realistic and highly philosophical/mentally engaging (like Ghost in the Shell), or you can embrace the fantasy and the over the top antics, and ditch the realism (like Mai Otome). Trying to do both won't do service to either. I'm sure someone will quote this and disagree, but I'm just stating my opinion. Above all else, a story has to feel plausible given the setting it establishes. I don't feel like this show delivers that, so far. All I feel like I'm seeing here is one trope/cliche after another with no attempt at convincing the audience that it could happen if you just believed. In short, I don't feel any suspension of disbelief while I'm watching.

Love, hate, or indifference, it's all opinion. But we're all entitled to those opinions. You can choose to ignore or discuss those opinions. They're as relevant as you want them to be. Just post with some tact and respect. If you can't manage that, don't expect to get a free pass.
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Old 2011-10-26, 16:07   Link #1211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
This is spot on. Since I've been personally called out as someone who was bashing Guilty Crown, I'm forced to comment a bit. Here's why I don't find this show interesting:
This is interesting, I think I'll touch on some of these bits of commentary:

Quote:
1. The main characters power. I simply do not find the notion of people turning into or becoming hammerspace storage for weapons appealing. This is largely because the person who becomes or holds the weapon often becomes less of a person and more of a thing to be used. Characterization tends to fail when this type of "power" is used, in my opinion.
Well Inori's character did seem to noticeably regress after she asked Shu to use her for the first time. Is that going to be her role, the tool to be used and flaunted for it's beauty, or will she have a character of her own. She looks like the main heroine, so they'll have to do better with her than that if they want the characterization to work for sure.

Quote:
2. The characters, so far, are not remarkable. How many stories have we seen with a male lead that is in school, not terribly popular, a bit of a recluse, has some emotional hangup, and just so happens to be in the right place at the right time and given some kind of incredible change in destiny? How many heroines have we seen that start out interesting and become sidelined as a "prop" that tags along with the male lead? How many stories have these two getting together romantically in some fated way? How many cool rebel leaders that kick ass, or obviously psychotic evil villains? Granted...it's only a few episodes, but there's barely any hint of something deeper with these characters.
Unimaginative seems like a better description for the characters. It feels a bit like Yoshino said, "lets see, how can I make these characters fit a role without having to work to hard, hmm well we can go with the time honored weak willed hero to build sympathy from otaku viewers that also feel a little meek and ignored in their own lives, we can also make the villains look batshit crazy so in contrast the hero appears valiant simply by being sane...and we'll make the main rival the most batshit crazy of them all so people know who to root for in the fights....we also probably want to make the leader of the resistance look cool, but how do we make him look altruistic....right the villains will do that merely by their actions being so reprehensible."

Basically the problem right now is that the Funeral Parlor faction aren't given their personality or cause via their own actions, but merely by the contrast between what they are doing and how reprehensible and black evil the actions of those they claim to stand opposed to are. Their characters, sense of altruism and goals only exist in direct contrast to the GHQ as it stands and this was kind of proven in the first episode.

Quote:
3. The setting is pretty realistic, but the realism ends with the scenery. Where do you hide giant mechs in a city controlled by a massive occupation force? How does a lone girl get into, and steal from, a supposedly high security facility that contains a highly important object? Why would you enroll into a school and use your real name if you're a wanted terrorist? Can these things be explained later? Sure. But why not just show us rather than tell us?
Well to be fair Inori seemed to have a cloaking device in the first episode so that could allow her to sneak into the facility to get the magic box so to speak. As for the mechs, I'm sure there's plenty of places to hide those and the Funeral Parlor HQ seems to be underground or hidden somewhere that isn't really obvious. They only seem to have one mech so that can't be all that hard to hide either.

As for the school thing, who the heck knows? I wonder if Yoshino even thought that one through or if he just so on autopilot right now as it appears to be that he just doesn't care. It's a popular trope so he threw it in there seems to be the only plausible explanation at the moment.

Quote:
4. Fanservice. Mechs. Idol Singer. Technology so awesome it's magic. I feel like I've seen all of these (and more) elements before.

These and a few other elements have put me off from enjoying the show, or at the very least, taking it as seriously as the initial premise suggested I should. Sometimes I can tolerate these elements, by themselves or together even....but in this particular package I don't find them appealing in the slightest.
Hey now, if you want to get rid of mechs you might as well get rid of a whole slew of other things in anime cause they've been around since the very dawn of anime and are basically culturally ingrained as a sub-genre at this point. They're going nowhere, that's for sure. As for Idol Singers, they've sort of been around in mecha for a pretty long time as well thanks to Macross. Is their a point to having them necessarily though? Not really. Do people tend to like and gravitate towards shows that contain these elements in Japan? Hell yes!

These things aren't necessarily a problem in and of itself with the show, it's how they get used that is the issue and right now we're still in the stages of hammering that out. This at the very least I'm willing to give time to see integrated into the plot and hope that they aren't just there as a cynical ploy to attract the maximum number of viewers and demographics.

Quote:
You can either go for a universe that is plausibly realistic and highly philosophical/mentally engaging (like Ghost in the Shell), or you can embrace the fantasy and the over the top antics, and ditch the realism (like Mai Otome). Trying to do both won't do service to either. I'm sure someone will quote this and disagree, but I'm just stating my opinion. Above all else, a story has to feel plausible given the setting it establishes. I don't feel like this show delivers that, so far. All I feel like I'm seeing here is one trope/cliche after another with no attempt at convincing the audience that it could happen if you just believed. In short, I don't feel any suspension of disbelief while I'm watching.

Love, hate, or indifference, it's all opinion. But we're all entitled to those opinions. You can choose to ignore or discuss those opinions. They're as relevant as you want them to be. Just post with some tact and respect. If you can't manage that, don't expect to get a free pass.
And here you've highlighted the precipice on which this show currently sits for the thread yet again. It's how things blend that'll make or break the show. Personally right now it feels like they may have thrown one too many trope into the mix, but we'll have to see if that's the case. Number one priority right now is successfully developing this characters away from the generic good vs. evil plot line they've sort of dug themselves into at the moment. That sort of thing has to go in order for this to be a critical success I would think.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No it's not. It's perfectly fair. The fact is that Yuki looked no better after two episodes than what Shu does after two episodes (heck, I would argue that Yuki looked worse after two episodes than what Shu does right now).

If manga readers expect anime-original viewers of Mira Nikki (like myself) to be patient with Yuki than why can't defenders of Guilty Crown expect its critics to be patient with Shu and Inori?

There's no guarantee that I'll like how Yuki turns out based on the manga, even if a manga reader did. But I'm willing to be patient with him because I think major characters deserve some time to be fleshed out before you judge them to the degree that I've seen Shu and Inori judged on this thread.
You're talking to much sense here again Triple

This show is weird, it's like one of the only cases where I've agreed with the critics of the show, but at the same time agreed with the people trying to defend it. Anime fandom and anime in general is in a weird place this season, I'm having the time of my life at the same time as I'm rolling my eyes.
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Old 2011-10-26, 16:09   Link #1212
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As an aside, can anyone familiar enough with Japanese please have a look at what episode 2's 4koma is all about?
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Old 2011-10-26, 16:15   Link #1213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
This is spot on. Since I've been personally called out as someone who was bashing Guilty Crown, I'm forced to comment a bit. Here's why I don't find this show interesting:

1. The main characters power. I simply do not find the notion of people turning into or becoming hammerspace storage for weapons appealing. This is largely because the person who becomes or holds the weapon often becomes less of a person and more of a thing to be used. Characterization tends to fail when this type of "power" is used, in my opinion.
Megatron, Transformers. One of the all-time classic animated villains. Turns into a gun, and is used by somebody else while like that.

Elemental Gelade also had a lot of characters like this, and I thought that many of them were great.

I get your general point, but there are exceptions.


Quote:

2. The characters, so far, are not remarkable. How many stories have we seen with a male lead that is in school, not terribly popular, a bit of a recluse, has some emotional hangup, and just so happens to be in the right place at the right time and given some kind of incredible change in destiny? How many heroines have we seen that start out interesting and become sidelined as a "prop" that tags along with the male lead? How many stories have these two getting together romantically in some fated way? How many cool rebel leaders that kick ass, or obviously psychotic evil villains? Granted...it's only a few episodes, but there's barely any hint of something deeper with these characters.
I think that there's plenty of hints of something deeper, simply with the trippy flashback sequences we've seen so far.

I can also think of plenty of great characters for each and every "not remarkable" character type that you mentioned.

Also, with the exception of some female-dominated casts, it's extremely rare to not have any characters like the first male character type you mentioned there, so I think it's a bit harsh to hold the mere presence of one as a major mark against the anime that has him in it.

Really, what you're mentioning here aren't even "character types", per se, but rather popular character skeletons. The key is the "flesh" you build around them, and we're far too early in Guilty Crown yet to know what it is that will be built around them.


Quote:

3. The setting is pretty realistic, but the realism ends with the scenery. Where do you hide giant mechs in a city controlled by a massive occupation force?
The city itself is rather massive. And it's very futuristic. It's quite conceivable that there's an underground storage bay somewhere that holds all of these.


Quote:
How does a lone girl get into, and steal from, a supposedly high security facility that contains a highly important object?
There's already been some decent theories offered for this. One was a personal cloaking device of sorts, which I could find easily believable given the tech level of this anime.


Quote:

You can either go for a universe that is plausibly realistic and highly philosophical/mentally engaging (like Ghost in the Shell), or you can embrace the fantasy and the over the top antics, and ditch the realism (like Mai Otome). Trying to do both won't do service to either. I'm sure someone will quote this and disagree, but I'm just stating my opinion.
Yes, you're right, someone will.

I disagree with you.

I would argue that Star Wars and Star Trek both try to fuse those two elements together, and they both do so quite successfully (well, the original Star Wars trilogy did, anyway).


There's also a very well-received 2011 anime that is plausibly realistic and highly philosophical/mentally engaging while embracing fantasy and over the top antics. It's called Madoka Magica.

"Plausibly realistic" - The way magic works in that universe is interesting, and internally consistent.

Over the top antics - SHAFT being SHAFT


Ultimately, we may have to agree to disagree. But I hope that you can see where Guilty Crown defenders, like myself, are coming from.
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Old 2011-10-26, 19:57   Link #1214
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Its my policy to watch at least eight episodes of a anime before starting to make wholescale judgements on the characters and storyline mainly incase the anime I'm watching pulls a fast one on us.

Also I can agree with both sides in this one. Its true that there is hundreds of variables used to determine ones opinion on each show and its also true that it is only opinion therefor impossible to make a absulute generalizing statement on each fanbase. However I seem to be geting a ruined forever vibe from some people which given how early on Guilty Crown is in its run seems a tad overblown.

Now on my opinions on the show itself.

Even though I can agree with many of the flaws mentioned on the episodes already shown the only real flaw that makes me wince is the black and white morality shown so far even though it seems Gai might show himself to be something else given his willingness to allow civilians to be executed most likely to motivate Shu and he can gain more support among the populace which from what i've seen really is not that hard given how it seems like ninety nine percent of them should be tying innocent maidens to railroad tracks while laughing which means that unless the rebellion suddenly starts eating babys while guning down a pack of orphans its easy to tell who's side your supossed to be on.

I can forgive the early characterization issues primarily because of the pacing when you get a breakneck pacing like how they have had for the first few episodes its hard to really build the characters. However now that they are in a less make a decison now or die environment. They need to slow down the pacing in order to allow the viewers more into the minds of the characters if they try to keep the current pacing up then they will have issues its too blindly fast in other words.

On the fanservice...its no Sekion No Qwaser or anything near that bad so as long as they keep it at a normal level and don't over use it I won't complain.

Animation is great and there budget must be godly to offord this amount of detail lets just hope that the money flows otherwise we might start seeing cuts everywhere.

All in all the next few episodes will either make it or break it depending on where they go with it.
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Old 2011-10-26, 21:23   Link #1215
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I'm enjoying Guilty Crown a lot, though I feel that all this great production value effort would have been better spent on a better story, with deeper characters and a more captivating plot. Do I hate it? No, quite honestly I'm loving it. I just have a few complaints with whoever decided to pour all this effort of execution into a very mediocre story.

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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
This is spot on. Since I've been personally called out as someone who was bashing Guilty Crown, I'm forced to comment a bit. Here's why I don't find this show interesting:
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1. The main characters power. I simply do not find the notion of people turning into or becoming hammerspace storage for weapons appealing. This is largely because the person who becomes or holds the weapon often becomes less of a person and more of a thing to be used. Characterization tends to fail when this type of "power" is used, in my opinion.
I would have to agree with you on not finding the pulling weapons out of people appealing. Can you give examples and reasoning why characterization fails in this scenario though?

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2. The characters, so far, are not remarkable. How many stories have we seen with a male lead that is in school, not terribly popular, a bit of a recluse, has some emotional hangup, and just so happens to be in the right place at the right time and given some kind of incredible change in destiny? How many heroines have we seen that start out interesting and become sidelined as a "prop" that tags along with the male lead? How many stories have these two getting together romantically in some fated way? How many cool rebel leaders that kick ass, or obviously psychotic evil villains? Granted...it's only a few episodes, but there's barely any hint of something deeper with these characters.
Rather standard set up I have to agree. Not deep is too early to tell. We are 2 episodes in and there is hope with the flashback sequences that there might be hidden depths.

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3. The setting is pretty realistic, but the realism ends with the scenery. Where do you hide giant mechs in a city controlled by a massive occupation force? How does a lone girl get into, and steal from, a supposedly high security facility that contains a highly important object? Why would you enroll into a school and use your real name if you're a wanted terrorist? Can these things be explained later? Sure. But why not just show us rather than tell us?
You can level this criticism against nearly every sci fi work.
Lets choose a famous one: Random32's Quick List of Complaints About Star Wars:
-What is this "hyperspace" thing? Hyperspace my ass!
-Mass ratios are way off for the types of maneuvers being performed.
-Fighters lose their advantage in most space combat scenarios.
-Why aren't all the Trade Federation droids extremely laggy? They are obviously controlled completely by the command vessel which is in orbit! If they aren't, why did they stop moving the instant the command ship was blown up?
-Energy shields?
-Lasers don't work that way!
-Why aren't there any handrails on Coruscunt docking areas since they are a good kilometer above the ground.
-Various other safety violations.
-Why can't Anakin just rotate his fighter 180 degrees and shoot the people tailing him?
-Why are bridges of starships mounted in positions similar to wet navy ships when that position gives no advantages compared to placing it somewhere less likely to get hit by a stray A wing?
-The Force. srsly?

The trick is suspending your reality to make way for the fiction's one.

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4. Fanservice. Mechs. Idol Singer. Technology so awesome it's magic. I feel like I've seen all of these (and more) elements before.
Its not original, but how does the addition of these make the series any worse? I like cute and/or sexy girls, I like mechs, I like idols, and technology porn is always awesome even if it isn't plausible.

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You can either go for a universe that is plausibly realistic and highly philosophical/mentally engaging (like Ghost in the Shell), or you can embrace the fantasy and the over the top antics, and ditch the realism (like Mai Otome). Trying to do both won't do service to either.
GiTS barely makes it into the possible range, much less the plausible one. Try Daemon/FreedomTM for that. It manages to be deep without being plausible though. CLANNAD had significant effects my outlook on my life, but I don't believe comatose girls projecting their image into reality and carving starfish for everyone is in the realm of possibility much less plausibility. Lain isn't the most plausible setting ever, but it still manages to be one of the most philosophical/mentally engaging series in the last few decades.

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Above all else, a story has to feel plausible given the setting it establishes. I don't feel like this show delivers that, so far. All I feel like I'm seeing here is one trope/cliche after another with no attempt at convincing the audience that it could happen if you just believed. In short, I don't feel any suspension of disbelief while I'm watching.
Maybe you have a less sensitive "this is complete bullshit that can never happen" sensor than me, but I find that suspension of disbelief isn't something that just happens, you have to purposely ignore the fact that it can't happen for it to set in.
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Old 2011-10-26, 21:42   Link #1216
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by Random32 View Post


Maybe you have a less sensitive "this is complete bullshit that can never happen" sensor than me, but I find that suspension of disbelief isn't something that just happens, you have to purposely ignore the fact that it can't happen for it to set in.
A good story will make you ignore the 'unbelievable aspects' without you noticing. Ie, when the story/characters/plot is good, you get absorbed into world and follow the pace. The story directs the gaze of the audience so that they don't see the flaws in the foundations.

It's like a magician's magic trick. Magicians use a lot of showmanship and misdirection to get the audience to see/believe what the magician wants. If the magician is not up to par, his tricks will be seen through, especially if it's a trick that's been done a lot.
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Old 2011-10-26, 22:26   Link #1217
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I'm a little confused about what "power of kings" does. It seems like Shu can create a weapon from pulling something from people's chest The thing is how do they know what that weapon is? e.g. the kaleidoscope in episode 2, did I miss something?
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Old 2011-10-26, 23:34   Link #1218
Shadow5YA
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So is Shu going to pull a Simon and become badass later after a timeskip?

Spoiler for magazine pic:


Where did this come from?
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Old 2011-10-26, 23:42   Link #1219
Archon_Wing
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Man she needs better fashion sense.

Or less...
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Old 2011-10-26, 23:45   Link #1220
Decagon
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
So is Shu going to pull a Simon and become badass later after a timeskip?

Spoiler for magazine pic:


Where did this come from?
An advert for the nitro+ game.
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