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Old 2011-10-27, 10:42   Link #41
Tak
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You seem to forget that Vajras are very well-versed in bending subspace and altering space/time that slowing time required but a fraction of the queen's power.

- Tak
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Old 2011-10-27, 10:42   Link #42
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@Kags and Tak
Kags, I do want to ask just HOW MUCH you understand of that part of the movie, but please take that to the movie thread! (or at least spoiler tag it)
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Old 2011-10-27, 10:48   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
@Kags and Tak
Kags, I do want to ask just HOW MUCH you understand of that part of the movie, but please take that to the movie thread! (or at least spoiler tag it)
Well, I was actually starting to just say that when it comes to trolling, it depends on how you see Kawamori, and I used that scene in the movie as an example to attach to a very similar one in the series (though in the movie it was used differently). That was all... but some people still take it to the next extreme...
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Old 2011-10-27, 13:08   Link #44
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Sh**can the movie spoilers, or at least bring them to the movie thread, 'kaythankyou?
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Old 2011-10-27, 16:09   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Wasn't the movie within a movie as you say the DYRL that we watched is not necessarily the DYRL movie in-universe?
Really? Does anyone know anything more about this?
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Old 2011-10-27, 18:09   Link #46
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Really? Does anyone know anything more about this?
It's RedWolf speculating, based on the fact that Macross 7 shows that are supposedly from DYRL, but aren't in the movie itself.

There's no official word on the issue, though, either yea or nay.
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Old 2011-10-27, 19:12   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
You guys have to excuse my good buddy and friend, Maggy, for a second. He is having a uniquely Prussian moment...
But I haven't even invaded Poland yet...

Oh, well. I don't think anything further I post on this pile-on will be constructive, so I shall do the smart thing and shut up about it.
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Old 2011-10-28, 00:52   Link #48
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
But I haven't even invaded Poland yet...
Nah, this is the part where Bismarck goes: LADS, TIS MY WAY OR THE RAILWAY! (as no autobahns exist at the time).

Then without warning, he dissolves the Reichstag, and tells von Moltke to invade Austria, who were, for some reason, all too happy to comply to a war against Prussia...

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2011-10-28 at 09:24.
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Old 2011-10-28, 03:46   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Nah, this is the part where Bismarck goes: LADS, TIS MY WAY OR THE RAILWAY! (as no autobahns exist at the time).

Then without warning, he dissolves the Reichstag, and tells von Moltke to invade Austria, who were, for some reason, all too happy to comply...

- Tak
Yeah, we could use the guy at the moment. Although a conservative, he at least had some leadership abilities, unlike the current chancellor.
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Old 2011-10-28, 12:02   Link #50
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Could always invade France again for shits n' giggles

The shot where she bitchslapped Sarkozy? PriceFUCKINGless!

But I digress... anyway, canon, was it?

- Tak
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Old 2011-10-28, 12:09   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Could always invade France again for shits n' giggles

The shot where she bitchslapped Sarkozy? PriceFUCKINGless!

But I digress... anyway, canon, was it?

- Tak
Bismarck ain't canon? And do I wish Merkel wasn't...
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Old 2011-10-28, 18:16   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
It's RedWolf speculating, based on the fact that Macross 7 shows that are supposedly from DYRL, but aren't in the movie itself.

There's no official word on the issue, though, either yea or nay.
Thanks ^^.

*sighs* comparatively speaking, there isn't much info specifically on this whole canon issue, but it's spread all over the place...what have I gotten myself into?
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Old 2011-10-28, 18:28   Link #53
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
*sighs* comparatively speaking, there isn't much info specifically on this whole canon issue, but it's spread all over the place...what have I gotten myself into?
This is how I see it.

Kawamori creates an outline of what he calls Official History.

Then he moves onto making anime out of said outline.

After broadcasting on television, he is not very satisfied, so he makes a movie based on the same said outline and spice it up. To continuously milk the franchise, he might commission someone to write another novel, acting as yet another version of the outline. Thus, you have several different telling of the same event.

Though we will never know if he does all these while high.

- Tak
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- Flight to Brazil? $1,500
- FIFA Stadium Ticket? $500
- Witnessing Coach Joachim Lw crack a smile at the World-Cup Final? PRICELESS


There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there is Master Card.


Get strong like ROCK! Not weak like Barack! Putincize now!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
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Old 2011-10-28, 18:35   Link #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
This is how I see it.

Kawamori creates an outline of what he calls Official History.

Then he moves onto making anime out of said outline.

After broadcasting on television, he is not very satisfied, so he makes a movie based on the same said outline and spice it up. To continuously milk the franchise, he might commission someone to write another novel, acting as yet another version of the outline. Thus, you have several different telling of the same event.

Though we will never know if he does all these while high.

- Tak
Yup, that's precisely what I understand of it too. (edit: though I get the impression I'm a lot more positive about it than most people here are...)

Though with Frontier, didn't they decide on making the movies before they decided what they wanted to 'fix'/improve?

And I like it how they further developed certain characters in the movies - but even then, I can't dismiss what the TV series did. Someone said it once before, but the whole thing - TV series, movies, novels, manga, drama cds etc - really is a complete package.

Though some parts of that package are arguably more important than others...
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Last edited by karice67; 2011-10-28 at 20:35.
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Old 2011-10-29, 21:49   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
This is how I see it.

Kawamori creates an outline of what he calls Official History.

Then he moves onto making anime out of said outline.

After broadcasting on television, he is not very satisfied, so he makes a movie based on the same said outline and spice it up. To continuously milk the franchise, he might commission someone to write another novel, acting as yet another version of the outline. Thus, you have several different telling of the same event.

Though we will never know if he does all these while high.

- Tak
I think Zero and Wings proved that he definitely does it while high.
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Old 2011-11-07, 22:13   Link #56
karice67
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I've updated the 3rd post with what I understand of the 'official history' of the Macross universe, and added the disclaimer from the Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah to the 2nd post.

Quote:
Disclaimer from Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah:
Quote:
This book, "Variable Fighter Master File VF-25 Messiah, the new saviour" is not an "official guidebook". Rather, it has been written as an encyclopedia, published on Macross Olympia in 2065, about the history and engineering of the VF-25 Messiah that appears in works in the Macross series
Note also that the credits page of this book, on which this disclaimer appears, is written in both Japanese and what I assume is the Zentradi script. (The disclaimer is in the small box on the bottom right.)
Spoiler for credits page:
'scuse the blurriness. I'm not going to scan my book and ruin it, so that was the best I could do to reduce the size of the photo at short notice.

For those who don't know the big 'hoohah' this book caused, please start here and read until the following page.

And shout out to Tak, Yot-chan / anyone who has the other Master Files (VF-25 is the only one I have): what do their credit pages say?
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Last edited by karice67; 2012-01-31 at 04:29.
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Old 2011-11-08, 03:20   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
I've updated the 3rd post with what I understand of the 'official history' of the Macross universe, and added the disclaimer from the Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah to the 2nd post.



Spoiler for credits page:
'scuse the blurriness. I'm not going to scan my book and ruin it, so that was the best I could do to reduce the size of the photo at short notice.

For those who don't know the big 'hoohah' this book caused, please start here and read until the following page.

And shout out to Tak, Yot-chan / anyone who has the other Master Files (VF-25 is the only one I have): what do their credit pages say?
If I had wanted any official book to be "real official canon", this would have been the one. I can't think of a more perfect outcome for Frontier. It's a damn shame that they put in that note. Sheryl and Alto together, Sheryl being a pilot, Alto having his sky and Sheryl... <sigh> It's a good ending.
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Old 2011-11-08, 10:09   Link #58
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
I've updated And shout out to Tak, Yot-chan / anyone who has the other Master Files (VF-25 is the only one I have): what do their credit pages say?
I don't have the first VF-1 book with me (it's back in my Mom's attic in L.A.) but yes: both the VF-19 book and the VF-1 Space Wings book have similar disclaimers.
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Old 2011-11-08, 17:13   Link #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
If I had wanted any official book to be "real official canon", this would have been the one. I can't think of a more perfect outcome for Frontier. It's a damn shame that they put in that note. Sheryl and Alto together, Sheryl being a pilot, Alto having his sky and Sheryl... <sigh> It's a good ending.
Frankly speaking though, nothing that we have access to is 'canon', according to our conception of it. There is a 'continuity' (using a phrase from the TV tropes entry), but as Tak (and Yot-chan) have previously said, they don't really care about creating a 'fleshed-out' canon like, for example, George Lucas does.

Anyways, to explain why I said that this book shows Kawamori's approach is not the 'parallel worlds' idea - it's another work published in the Macross Universe, specifically, it was published on Macross Olympia in 2065.

i.e. It follows the approach he laid out in the 1998 interview - every work they make is something published in the Macross Universe, based to a greater or lesser extent on people that existed and events that occurred.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
I don't have the first VF-1 book with me (it's back in my Mom's attic in L.A.) but yes: both the VF-19 book and the VF-1 Space Wings book have similar disclaimers.
Just wondering - did they also say when and where in the universe they were published, like this one does?
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Last edited by karice67; 2011-11-09 at 05:15.
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Old 2011-11-08, 18:06   Link #60
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Frankly speaking though, nothing that we have access to is 'canon', according to our conception of it. There is a 'continuity' (using a phrase from the TV tropes entry), but Tak (and Yot-chan) have previous said, they don't really care about creating a 'fleshed-out' canon like, for example, George Lucas does.

Anyways, to explain why I said that this book shows Kawamori's approach is not the 'parallel worlds' idea - it's another work published in the Macross Universe, specifically, it was published on Macross Olympia in 2065.

i.e. It follows the approach he laid out in the 1998 interview - every work they make is something published in the Macross Universe, based to a greater or lesser extent on people that existed and events that occurred.
So, basically every piece of Macross Frontier fiction is supposed to be a different take on things by authors in-universe? Even the TV series? I'm not so happy with this intepretation, if that is the case. I'd rather see the TV series as the "true story" and the other works go from there, each presenting a idealized version of the real events.
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