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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 04
10: Amazing... 5 7.58%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 9 13.64%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 25 37.88%
7 out of 10: Good... 13 19.70%
6 out of 10: Average... 8 12.12%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 2 3.03%
4 out of 10: Poor... 1 1.52%
3 out of 10: Bad... 1 1.52%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 1 1.52%
1 out of 10: Tortuous... 1 1.52%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-10-30, 22:25   Link #61
Vena
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
The UE didn't even use ordinary thruster for their mobile suits.
The link was for the general idea, if you would like me to write you a complex physics explanation for why things cannot just disappear in open space at such a close range, I will.

But here's the short version... because I'm bored, and because you clearly missed the point of my not at all being serious:
Thrusters give off a massive heat signature, as they work by burning fuel and expelling it to give you forward momentum, which you cannot just 'hide behind a cloak' no matter what sort of technology you have. And, for the sake of argument, even if you could somehow hide heat, you cannot hide the trail that would be left behind... or are they dragging along all their burnt fuel all over space?

Now sure, you could argue that they are not burning fuel and are using some fancy other form of movement but in order to gain momentum (ie. move) they need to act upon something with a force. They cannot simply will themselves into forward motion. That thing that they act upon, be it magical space dust or carebears, will fly away from them with an equal momentum. Since this ship is massive, the thing it acted on would be moving incredibly fast and carnying a lot of energy.

Or they could be moving all of the spacetime for their movement ala Alcubierre Drive, but then even that would be noticeable to an outside observer.

To save us both some time:TvTropes
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Old 2011-10-30, 22:31   Link #62
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This is all assuming the level of technology of our time. This show is way in the future, and the tech is used by machines that dwarf even that time's technological level. Arguing about how impossible it is or not is kinda meaningless in that regard.
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Old 2011-10-30, 22:35   Link #63
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Freestyle writing!

Man I just can't stay mad at you. It's like every post is a rap song or something. I want to lay down some beats and see how it goes.
Well I am a freelance writer in real life, so I tend to do alot of freestyle writing...Not trying to be overly urbanized, but while I do appreciate your overzealous-ness towards me for some reason right now, let's not hide my actual criticisms of this episode behind a wall of patronage...
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Old 2011-10-30, 22:35   Link #64
Duo Maxwell
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I was not arguing about the thruster. I mentioned it to tell you that they have much more advancing technology than the EFF, thus they may have some way to make it possible.

[edit]
ninja'ed.
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Old 2011-10-30, 22:39   Link #65
Vena
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
This is all assuming the level of technology of our time. This is way in the future, and used by machines that dwarf even that time's technological level. Arguing about how impossible it is or not is kinda meaningless in that regard.
To be fair, you have to equally assume that the technology of sensors/detectors has also increased. By our current standards of technology, stealth in space is a comical thought because its simply impossible to account for all methods of detection in an environment that literally has no obstacles. So for it to gain even a modicum of feasability, stealth tech would have to fast forward or have some scary sudden tech boom to leave sensors in the dust.

Now, there's also the fact that you simply cannot mask heat from forward momentum. That is more or less a permanent obstacle. You cannot mask a thruster, its simply not possible. If you do mask it, that means you are either a: containing your propellant within a bubble, giving your bubble zero momentum (that is, it won't move), or b: your shield has to increase indefinitely in all directions to contain and mask that propellant.

Now since I doubt either of the above are possible not matter what sort of tech you have, the Diva, at that close of a range, would have easily been able to pick up heat signatures from whatever the giant UE ship used to gain its forward momentum. And they would have known exactly where the UE ship was when Flit and Woolf disappeared... heck they would have known for thousands of miles even by our shoddy current world tech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
I was not arguing about the thruster. I mentioned it to tell you that they have much more advancing technology than the EFF, thus they may have some way to make it possible.

[edit]
ninja'ed.
I'm simply saying that it is not possible. You can visibly mask something, sure metamaterials, but masking heat is a whole other story. And sure, maybe some day we'll find a way to mask the heat given off by an object perfectly, but that won't help if its moving. See above as to why.
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Old 2011-10-30, 22:48   Link #66
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I really enjoyed this episode I'm glad Flit is showing some fire in his belly I thought with the way the first 3 episodes were going he was gonna endup being a limp wristed whiner who would have to be coddled and coax through out his run just to get him to pilot. Thankfully I was wrong.

Also I liked Woolf's character he reminds me a bit of Patrick Colasour in terms of attitude but seems to do a better job of backing up his claims. So he is a bit cocky and seems to enjoy tormenting Flit which could end up being fun to watch as long as they don't over play it.
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Old 2011-10-30, 22:50   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I'm simply saying that it is not possible. You can visibly mask something, sure metamaterials, but masking heat is a whole other story. And sure, maybe some day we'll find a way to mask the heat given off by an object perfectly, but that won't help if its moving. See above as to why.
Not if you have GN Particles, which can only be sensed by other GN Particle sensors; which can be jammed by having too much GN Particles disrupting said sensors.


Sensor technology will likely keep up, but if we're talking about the UE and EF, the EF's technology are inferior to the UE so they might as well be left in the dust in the sensor department too. It may also not necessarily be a defensive masking either but could also be offensive if your going to affect the searching sensor's rather than relying purely on masking your own signatures. We are talking about EF not being able to detect a UE ship here, rather than another EF ship.
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Old 2011-10-30, 22:53   Link #68
Vena
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Originally Posted by SonicSP View Post
Not if you have GN Particles, which can only be sensed by other GN Particle sensors..............
Which was also nonsense from a reality point of view. For GN particles to not be detectable from anything other than a GN particle sensor, they wouldn't have been able to interact with anything but other GN particles (see: why neutrino detection is a pain in the rear)... which was clearly not the case.

But I didn't hold that against G00, and I'm not holding this against GAge, I just found ti funny and made a post about it.
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Old 2011-10-30, 23:19   Link #69
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Things seem to be picking up, finally they introduce Wolf, who surprisingly came off like a decent guy. He was just messing with the kid and acting a bit arrogant and waht not but it became evident that was just a facade.

Something that caught my attention though was that Wolf was apparently in a healing sleep, kinda like what they had in 00. It wasn't explained why he was there so I'm wondering if there's more to that or just simply an excuse to not introduce him right away.

Also, it seems like Brodek figured out who the UE are by analyzing their technology...Kinda makes you wonder if he's going to share it with everyone else or not...My guess is he'll keep it to himself.

There's definitely a good story here, and so far they are doing a good job of giving us a taste and keeping us coming back. At least that's how I feel anyway. I don't know about you guys...

Having said that, I still cannot get over the character designs lol. The adults with the exception of Emily's grandfather are good, but the kids just seem too young, as in younger than what they really are. Hopefully they grow on me as the show has grown.

On a side note, how long do you guys think it iwll take the federation to come up with a decent counter to the UE units? So far the Genoace seem to be about as usefull as Leo against a Gundam, or a Tieren vs a GN-mobile suit...
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Old 2011-10-30, 23:30   Link #70
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Having said that, I still cannot get over the character designs lol. The adults with the exception of Emily's grandfather are good, but the kids just seem too young, as in younger than what they really are. Hopefully they grow on me as the show has grown.
Apparently Wolf believes this aswell as his "What is this a daycare?"- comment seemed a bit meta to me and made me chuckle^^...I wonder if Wolf's plushy ears will ever be explained or will that just be who he is...


Quote:
There's definitely a good story here, and so far they are doing a good job of giving us a taste and keeping us coming back. At least that's how I feel anyway. I don't know about you guys.
Hmm..I actually feel like the story is pretty non-existent so far...We've hit the bullet points obviously (Kid in Gundam, Colony destroyed, WTF R the badguys?), but the worldveiw seems either completely forgotten or non-existent and I haven't seen enuff from a direction standpoint to be energized about the fighting factions other than the obvious "who are those guys in the mecha Gargoyles"? And for the record I think the Mecha-Gargoyles look cool...
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Old 2011-10-30, 23:43   Link #71
Vena
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Apparently Wolf believes this aswell as his "What is this a daycare?"- comment seemed a bit meta to me and made me chuckle^^...I wonder if Wolf's plushy ears will ever be explained or will that just be who he is...
They never explained Dorothy/Treize's crazy eyebrows of awesome.

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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Hmm..I actually feel like the story is pretty non-existent so far...We've hit the bullet points obviously (Kid in Gundam, Colony destroyed, WTF R the badguys?), but the worldveiw seems either completely forgotten or non-existent and I haven't seen enuff from a direction standpoint to be energized about the fighting factions other than the obvious "who are those guys in the mecha Gargoyles"? And for the record I think the Mecha-Gargoyles look cool...
I think the idea in this Gundam isn't so much about world politics, world views, or (from what I can tell so far) any overly deep philosophical thought (G00, GSeed, GWing), but to tell a simpler more rudimentary story about giant robots. For that, they are laying out a good base of characters, giving them development either directly or with little details thrown about, and building up a foundation on which to tell a story. Once the ground work is set, you can build your house.

Beauty can be found in simplicity, and sometimes a simple but well told story is no worse than a convoluted one.
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Old 2011-10-30, 23:53   Link #72
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No, creb's right. If you watch Ep 2 again, the "new" crew was wondering what happened to the old bridge crew. All of their info was erased by Grodek. Since they didn't have the time, they decided to launch the Diva themselves.
Makes you wonder how're they gonna explain themselves when they get to HQ and start asking who the hell authorized the change.
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Old 2011-10-31, 00:07   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Vena
Beauty can be found in simplicity, and sometimes a simple but well told story is no worse than a convoluted one.
I hope so, but it's difficult to suspend ones expectations so far as to forgive things like simple exposition...My main problem with this episode is the way Wolf is indoctrinated into the story with the obvious goal of providing Flit with his Mwu la Flaga or what have you at just a break neck pace...They just sandwiched 3 eps of development into a badly executed practice battle inwhich nothing at all in-terms of protocol seems acceptable to me (It literally went, Dude from DeepSleep-Hello kiddies-Gimme the Gundam- Now We're friends)...

If you wanna hide that behind the storytelling is supposed to be uber-simple, I doubt many who are feeling this show would agree with that being a positive...I like your opinion on it, and if there is nothing in-terms of the subjects you broached on the other shows, that will suck (If not scream of hallow homages), but they seem to be trying to hint at deeper things like the captain's offbeat actions, however based on what we've seen in direction i'm not energized thinking about how the show will deal with it's intended crumbs...


Quote:
They never explained Dorothy/Treize's crazy eyebrows of awesome.
Inuyasha ears trump eybrows, no?
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Old 2011-10-31, 00:10   Link #74
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Originally Posted by FLCL View Post
I really like how Flit has some guts unlike the last few gundam leads.
Define guts, please. Because unless our definitions differ (guts = courage), I don't think you could say that any Gundam leads (recent or otherwise) lacked guts.
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Old 2011-10-31, 00:33   Link #75
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I hope so, but it's difficult to suspend ones expectations so far as to forgive things like simple exposition...My main problem with this episode is the way Wolf is indoctrinated into the story with the obvious goal of providing Flit with his Mwu la Flaga or what have you at just a break neck pace...They just sandwiched 3 eps of development into a badly executed practice battle inwhich nothing at all in-terms of protocol seems acceptable to me (It literally went, Dude from DeepSleep-Hello kiddies-Gimme the Gundam- Now We're friends)...

If you wanna hide that behind the storytelling is supposed to be uber-simple, I doubt many who are feeling this show would agree with that being a positive...I like your opinion on it, and if there is nothing in-terms of the subjects you broached on the other shows, that will suck (If not scream of hallow homages), but they seem to be trying to hint at deeper things like the captain's offbeat actions, however based on what we've seen in direction i'm not energized thinking about how the show will deal with it's intended crumbs...
The episode was certainly compact, I'll give you that, but having a character of Woolf's type is not unheard of nor is it necessarily bad/rushed characterization. Such people simply exist: he's a playboy with a mega ego, but if you impress him he'll be friendlier but never betray his playboy/coolguy attitude. The practice and sudden appearance of the UE was certainly rushed and convenient that much I'll say was poorly handled. I don't even think it was necessary other than as an expo for the UE battleship. Woolf was already developing some respect for Flit's skills before the UE pop up out of nowhere and a proper continuation and conclusion to the fight could have easily landed us with him gaining respect for Flit.

The UE's inclusion just felt unnecessary.

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Inuyasha ears trump eybrows, no?
Not eyebrows like that! They were like twin-half mustaches proudly hanging off the sides of their heads.
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Old 2011-10-31, 00:33   Link #76
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Originally Posted by .:Jason:. View Post
Small correction. The crew itself is legit, it's just Commander Grodek who's a rebell. That's why the others were shocked in episode two when they found out he was in charge.
The bridge crew is not legit. They were wondering why there was no one on the bridge, and then decided they couldn't wait around for the officers to show up, and took the controls to start things up themselves, and then Grodek came and gave them all a sense of legitimacy by waving his hand and saying he's the captain, thus of course it's ok for you all to stay on the bridge.

Remember, this officer crew were the colony's defense crew. We'll hand wave how they even knew how to operate a brand new, top secret warship, because we're handwaving a lot of other things.

But, yes, the rest of the crew (engineers, flight crew, mechanics, cooks, etc) of the Diva is legit, and apparently have just blindly accepted their officers were transferred at the last minute right before the colony came under attack.

Edit: Just saw that brightman already explained my point. Doh.

Anyways, we know they've already tricked the Federation ships that took the colony core to safety. It's feasible, since the Diva was a top secret warship, that they can keep tricking Federation ships/colonies, since I'm guessing the crew/officers were not made public knowledge outside a small circle to begin with. Eventually, it will probably bite them in the butt though. Be interesting to see what happens at that point.


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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
So far the Genoace seem to be about as usefull as Leo against a Gundam, or a Tieren vs a GN-mobile suit...
We already know they can pump out DODS rifles in about 20 seconds. The Genoace with a DODS rifle seems plenty effective in this episode. I guess the real question is why do our heroes and the Federation, even days later, still have only one DODS rifle. And, in case it wasn't obvious, that's a rhetorical question.
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Old 2011-10-31, 00:35   Link #77
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Inuyasha ears trump eybrows, no?
They're just folds in his hair, not actual ears. The animation is just drawing attention to them.
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Old 2011-10-31, 00:56   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Hellbore View Post
They're just folds in his hair, not actual ears. The animation is just drawing attention to them.
If only more people can accept this. But I guess they're just happier creating things in their mind to hate the show more.

Such sad people.
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Old 2011-10-31, 08:16   Link #79
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Emily... god damn it women, stop worrying.
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Old 2011-10-31, 08:17   Link #80
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Are the G-Exes the Federation's answer to countering the UE? I wonder when they'll be making their debut, now that Grodek has figured out what they really are, I assume something will be done.
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