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Old 2011-11-09, 00:18   Link #21261
Magin
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So now that I've actually read the RAW...

Spoiler for 47:


Yes, the wait if going to be killer, but overall, not a bad chappy
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Old 2011-11-09, 00:59   Link #21262
Chris38
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Not it only suppresses his powers, when a tremendous amount of his Shinso power is released the Holy Lock becomes momentarily compromised and thus results in some of the links breaking, Tsukune's seal is an imcomplete one it's similar to Moka's Rosary, her seal is a complete version though, besides using Youjutsu requires fuel via his Shinso powers, that Bakuryuujin (lit. Explosive Lapis Circle) technique released some of his Shinso energy in one burst, Alucard could have reacted to it considering Tsukune is in close proximity and i was thinking that the more he descends to the chamber where Alucard is, the more Alucard reacts, rather than him reacting to Moka.
Actually, while initially the Holy Lock might have not been sealing Tsukune's Shinso power's, I believe that currently it is doing that, either because of the Holy Lock's "growth" that Mikogami spoke about, in chapter 27 of the first season, or due to the modifications that Tohou Fuhai put into the Holy Lock, between chapter 42 and 43, when Tsukune has been in his "coma period", after undergoing the human modification ritual.

After all, if Tsukune resurrecting Alucard would be as easy as you claim it to be Shinso Tsukune, then he definitely wouldn't participate in the rescue operation of Moka, since the resurrection of Alucard is something that Tohou Fuhai wants to avoid at all costs, which has been punctuated in chapter 41, where Tohou Fuhai tried to kill Tsukune at the cost of his remaining life, just because Tsukune had a similar scent to Alucard - which, implied how motivated Tohou Fuhai is, on keeping Alucard sealed.

In other words, the fact that Tsukune participates in Moka's rescue operation, means that the chance of Tsukune awakening Alucard has been reduced to a minimum, and isn't as easy as you claim it to be Shinso Tsukune.
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Old 2011-11-09, 04:19   Link #21263
Merilyn Mensola
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Not it only suppresses his powers, when a tremendous amount of his Shinso power is released the Holy Lock becomes momentarily compromised and thus results in some of the links breaking, Tsukune's seal is an imcomplete one it's similar to Moka's Rosary, her seal is a complete version though, besides using Youjutsu requires fuel via his Shinso powers, that Bakuryuujin (lit. Explosive Lapis Circle) technique released some of his Shinso energy in one burst, Alucard could have reacted to it considering Tsukune is in close proximity and i was thinking that the more he descends to the chamber where Alucard is, the more Alucard reacts, rather than him reacting to Moka.
I thought that for Tsukune to use Bakuryuujin , isn't necessary use his Shinso blood, because Tsukune now is a 100% vampire (his Body)..,probably i'm wrong..

However, i'd like that if Tsukune realise his Shinso power, the tattoo in his face appears like when he was became ghouls

Your theory might be right....
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Old 2011-11-09, 04:28   Link #21264
Om Nerabdator
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Old 2011-11-09, 08:25   Link #21265
Shinso Tsukune
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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Actually, while initially the Holy Lock might have not been sealing Tsukune's Shinso power's, I believe that currently it is doing that, either because of the Holy Lock's "growth" that Mikogami spoke about, in chapter 27 of the first season, or due to the modifications that Tohou Fuhai put into the Holy Lock, between chapter 42 and 43, when Tsukune has been in his "coma period", after undergoing the human modification ritual.

After all, if Tsukune resurrecting Alucard would be as easy as you claim it to be Shinso Tsukune, then he definitely wouldn't participate in the rescue operation of Moka, since the resurrection of Alucard is something that Tohou Fuhai wants to avoid at all costs, which has been punctuated in chapter 41, where Tohou Fuhai tried to kill Tsukune at the cost of his remaining life, just because Tsukune had a similar scent to Alucard - which, implied how motivated Tohou Fuhai is, on keeping Alucard sealed.

In other words, the fact that Tsukune participates in Moka's rescue operation, means that the chance of Tsukune awakening Alucard has been reduced to a minimum, and isn't as easy as you claim it to be Shinso Tsukune.
Indeed, Touhou would take those measures to ensure nothing like that happens, i did put in consideration that Touhou would have repaired his Holy Lock to prevent anything truly bad from happening, of course these safety measures won't last.

Do you think that using Youjutsu would result in him releasing bursts of his Shinso energy in order to execute the techniques?
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Old 2011-11-09, 09:24   Link #21266
Tempest35
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The Youjutsu utilizies the 'normal' vampire energy he has - that little display was just with his normal energy. Even Moka hasn't used the Shinso energy much either - I believe that as long as that the collar is on her, she won't be able to use the full extent of the Shinso energy inside her.

And that 'Holy Lock' on Tsukune...It might be more of a lock on his mental stability rather than his power - I mean, it hasn't repressed anything in recent chapters...lol And if it WAS suppressing Tsukune's power even when he went Dark Side and he goes One Wing Angel by breaking the lock on his own like Hokuto... ...that might actually be worth seeing, scarily enough. It would take Akasha bringing him back to his senses after that one...
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Old 2011-11-09, 09:39   Link #21267
Mahou
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It would take Akasha bringing him back to his senses after that one...
Or a hot and steamy kiss from Moka (in a colored full page panel) so that in turn not only Tsukune is her destined partner, but also Moka will become *his* destined partner . Does it sound "horribly" corny? Mission accomplished!

*cough* Anyway, the time when Tsukune's holy lock completely breaks will be another turning point of R+V. Due to my bad memory I don't remember the part about the holy lock improving so I'll re-read that part. It would also be nice if the lock simply falls off once Tsukune mastered the "sanity control" la the hidden master idea of Mikogami to use the locks in the first place (I know it's very unlikely).
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Old 2011-11-09, 12:18   Link #21268
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Regarding the Holy Lock breaking, I believe that it's going to occur near the end of the manga, and at that time, we will also have a clear clarification on the end result of Tsukune's transformation.

One thing that, I'm currently sure about is that Moka is going to be partially or directly involved in the process of Tsukune's Holy Lock breaking, to keep up with the pattern of Moka being involved whenever something changes within Tsukune due to the Shinso blood that she injected within him.

It should be quite obvious that such a pattern exists, but to provide some examples:

In the first season, when Moka was at the risk of being well "defiled" for the second time by Saizou for the second time, Tsukune transformed on his own, into his vampire form.

In the same season, the first time when Tsukune lost control over his vampire blood and nearly turned into a Ghoul - only Moka and Tsukune have been present at the site of the event, until Tsukune's Ghoulification occurred.

In the second season, the Doppelganger incident, Tsukune had been trying to remove Moka's rosario, when he was stabbed and his vampire blood went out of control.

And so on...

In other words, I have no doubts that such a pattern exists, which is also one of the reasons why I believe that Tsukune is going to be alone, during his confrontation with Akua, if there are going to occur some major changes within him (which, has a low chance of occurring, since we still don't now the whole effects of Tsukune's last changes - in other words the whole results of Tsukune undergoing the human modification ritual, but still, we can't discount the possibility that something is going to happen to Tsukune, during his fight with Akua...) and why Moka is going to be somehow related with the incident when Tsukune's Holy Lock is going to be broken.

On a related topic, I think that Tsukune's human family should be a little involved with Tsukune's development as well, or at least become aware of the fact that he has the blood of a Shinso vampire in his veins, since with his recent comparison with Alucard, I'm quite sure that Tsukune's lifespan has become similar to the lifespan a Shinso vampire has - which, is most likely being young for all eternity, since from the looks of it, the growth of a vampire in the R+V series is suspended after they reach a certain age - you have to just look at Akasha, her real age is an 200 year old lady, but she looks as if she where 20 - 25 year's old, so I think the matter that Tsukune (and Moka, but that should be quite obvious) is going to outlive his entire human family, as well as most of his youkai "friends", who definitely have a longer lifespan compared to normal humans, but I doubt they have the same lifespan that vampires in this series have, should be brought up in one of the future arcs.

Last edited by Chris38; 2011-11-09 at 13:13.
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Old 2011-11-09, 17:08   Link #21269
Shinso Tsukune
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On a related topic, I think that Tsukune's human family should be a little involved with Tsukune's development as well, or at least become aware of the fact that he has the blood of a Shinso vampire in his veins, since with his recent comparison with Alucard, I'm quite sure that Tsukune's lifespan has become similar to the lifespan a Shinso vampire has - which, is most likely being young for all eternity, since from the looks of it, the growth of a vampire in the R+V series is suspended after they reach a certain age - you have to just look at Akasha, her real age is an 200 year old lady, but she looks as if she where 20 - 25 year's old, so I think the matter that Tsukune (and Moka, but that should be quite obvious) is going to outlive his entire human family, as well as most of his youkai "friends", who definitely have a longer lifespan compared to normal humans, but I doubt they have the same lifespan that vampires in this series have, should be brought up in one of the future arcs.
I'm just glad that our past theories about his family being possible hostage of Fairy Tale were incorrect, thats not something that he needs on his mind at the moment, but i'm sure in time they will eventually become aware of the truth about Tsukune and the Shinso vampire blood in his veins, but chances for that is a 50/50, its possible that they may never find out, since their roles in the series are minor afterall, as for his overall lifespan i do agree that he is definitely going to live for a very long to, he has to in order to be with his immortal vampire Moka-chan, as for Akasha's age, i don't care if she is 200 years old, she looks damn good.
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Old 2011-11-09, 17:48   Link #21270
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Switching tracks. It's obvious Gyokuro's Fairy Tale plan is Alucard. That means the other Fairy Tale, i.e Miyabi, Hokuto, and Kiria are responsible for those egg sacs, so why would they need Moka besides using the Shinso blood to awaken Alucard? Have they extracted something from the Alucard and implanted it within the egg sacs to grow some sort of Alucard hybrid...?
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Old 2011-11-09, 19:12   Link #21271
Shinso Tsukune
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Switching tracks. It's obvious Gyokuro's Fairy Tale plan is Alucard. That means the other Fairy Tale, i.e Miyabi, Hokuto, and Kiria are responsible for those egg sacs, so why would they need Moka besides using the Shinso blood to awaken Alucard? Have they extracted something from the Alucard and implanted it within the egg sacs to grow some sort of Alucard hybrid...?
Interesting theory your have, the eggs organic appearance is very similar to Alucard's, if you look at them closely, perhaps Miyabi's side would use Moka's power to hatch those eggs, Gyokuro's main focus is unleashing Alucard on the world, not one word has escaped her mouth about the eggs, so those eggs are most likely part of Miyabi's plan.
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Old 2011-11-10, 04:08   Link #21272
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Interesting theory your have, the eggs organic appearance is very similar to Alucard's, if you look at them closely, perhaps Miyabi's side would use Moka's power to hatch those eggs, Gyokuro's main focus is unleashing Alucard on the world, not one word has escaped her mouth about the eggs, so those eggs are most likely part of Miyabi's plan.
They wouldn't need Moka's power, the eggs already seem to be feeding from different sources. I imagine they have a different use for Moka maybe as a control system or maybe they simply need to keep her away from Alucard to stall for time until the eggs hatch. It's also feasibly possible those eggs those eggs are literally Alucard's children due to the absorption or partial absorption of the female Shinso Akasha.
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Old 2011-11-10, 04:22   Link #21273
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Switching tracks. It's obvious Gyokuro's Fairy Tale plan is Alucard. That means the other Fairy Tale, i.e Miyabi, Hokuto, and Kiria are responsible for those egg sacs, so why would they need Moka besides using the Shinso blood to awaken Alucard? Have they extracted something from the Alucard and implanted it within the egg sacs to grow some sort of Alucard hybrid...?
That sounds quite plausible. Hokuto's monstrous arm in chapter 38 also looked like Alucard's tentacles, so it's possible he might've ingested some of Alucard's blood, or had his cells implanted into him, hence his current physical condition.

And in one translation of chapter 43, Hokuto was quoted to saying, "my diminishing time is running out." So it could be Alucard's cellular matter is destroying his body, hence why he's in a wheelchair. So it's possible he needs Moka's blood to stabilize himself and save his life. But oh gosh, that brings up another possibility. What if Hokuto's true aim isn't to awaken Alucard, but to become Alucard. With Moka's blood, that just might happen. Though I truly hope I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Interesting theory your have, the eggs organic appearance is very similar to Alucard's, if you look at them closely, perhaps Miyabi's side would use Moka's power to hatch those eggs, Gyokuro's main focus is unleashing Alucard on the world, not one word has escaped her mouth about the eggs, so those eggs are most likely part of Miyabi's plan.
Not Gyokuro, no, but Kahlua made it sound like the eggs are a part of the main plan. She said to Kokoa that once the eggs hatched, Fairy Tale would start its operations. That conflicts with Gyokuro's master plan, though it fits into Miyabe's just fine. Maybe Kahlua's playing her mother for a fool.

That brings up another horrifying theory. What if Mayabe implanted some of Alucard's cells into Kahlua, with the expressed purpose of murdering Gyokuro during the chaos of the castle siege. Though it seems more like a kamikaze mission, take out Gyokuro along with herself. Just a theory, mind you.

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They wouldn't need Moka's power, the eggs already seem to be feeding from different sources. I imagine they have a different use for Moka maybe as a control system or maybe they simply need to keep her away from Alucard to stall for time until the eggs hatch. It's also feasibly possible those eggs those eggs are literally Alucard's children due to the absorption or partial absorption of the female Shinso Akasha.
That owuld be too disturbing for words. Not implausible, but very disturbing. Poor Akasha would be traumatized if that were the case, for she'd essentially be the glorious mother of destruction. Not an enviable position, by any means.
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Old 2011-11-10, 05:35   Link #21274
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That sounds quite plausible. Hokuto's monstrous arm in chapter 38 also looked like Alucard's tentacles, so it's possible he might've ingested some of Alucard's blood, or had his cells implanted into him, hence his current physical condition.

And in one translation of chapter 43, Hokuto was quoted to saying, "my diminishing time is running out." So it could be Alucard's cellular matter is destroying his body, hence why he's in a wheelchair. So it's possible he needs Moka's blood to stabilize himself and save his life. But oh gosh, that brings up another possibility. What if Hokuto's true aim isn't to awaken Alucard, but to become Alucard. With Moka's blood, that just might happen. Though I truly hope I'm wrong.



Not Gyokuro, no, but Kahlua made it sound like the eggs are a part of the main plan. She said to Kokoa that once the eggs hatched, Fairy Tale would start its operations. That conflicts with Gyokuro's master plan, though it fits into Miyabe's just fine. Maybe Kahlua's playing her mother for a fool.

That brings up another horrifying theory. What if Mayabe implanted some of Alucard's cells into Kahlua, with the expressed purpose of murdering Gyokuro during the chaos of the castle siege. Though it seems more like a kamikaze mission, take out Gyokuro along with herself. Just a theory, mind you.



That owuld be too disturbing for words. Not implausible, but very disturbing. Poor Akasha would be traumatized if that were the case, for she'd essentially be the glorious mother of destruction. Not an enviable position, by any means.
Tsukune seemed completely aware of what Hakuto was talking about to Tsukune himself is probably running out of time, making it less an issue about gaining Alucard's blood and simply the monster blood they have killing them anyway.

I'm not sure one could even implant Alucard's cells in another person, it would likely poison and kill them unless the developed a certain way like Tsukune may have to.

Well i never suggested it was a pleasant thought. I don't think Akasha would see them as her children because they are born as mindless heartless abominations. Same for Moka it's not like she would genuinely view the eggs as sisters.
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Old 2011-11-10, 08:49   Link #21275
Shinso Tsukune
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And in one translation of chapter 43, Hokuto was quoted to saying, "my diminishing time is running out." So it could be Alucard's cellular matter is destroying his body, hence why he's in a wheelchair. So it's possible he needs Moka's blood to stabilize himself and save his life. But oh gosh, that brings up another possibility. What if Hokuto's true aim isn't to awaken Alucard, but to become Alucard. With Moka's blood, that just might happen. Though I truly hope I'm wrong.
Hokuto saying "my diminishing time is running out" was a rough translation of the chapter it wasn't accurate the current chapter 43 has Hokuto saying "we are merely using you for that purpose. If you mess up. We won't hesitate to abandon you, so be prepared", it was a misinterpretation of the raws this mistake was corrected when it was released, Hokuto wasn't talking about himself but rather about Tsukune's usefulness of Miyabi's side.
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Old 2011-11-11, 05:40   Link #21276
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On a different topic, I believe that we will have a few alternations in how Tsukune's "vampire form" looks like - after all, if you look at the first season, Tsukune's Ghoul form looked similar to how his "controlled vampire form" looked like, the only difference being the black lines that covered Tsukune's face, originating from the place where Moka has bitten him.

So now that Tsukune's "berserk form" has went through some major alternations, I believe that Tsukune's "controlled vampire form" is going to go through some major alternations as well - one of the changes that I believe are going to occur is the change of Tsukune's hair color to silver when goes into his "vampire form".

The most likely, form that Tsukune is going to take is a more "humanized" version of Tsukune's latest "berserk form", naturally with the ability to make his wings appear in case he needs them - in other words white (silver) hair, permanent vampire eyes, fangs, and the ability to materialize his wings, just like Kahula is capable of transforming her hand, with the rest of Tsukune's body being the same as it is in his "human form".

At least that's what I think, since it's not like the Holy Lock can reverse the physical changes that Tsukune underwent due to his Shinso blood - it only filters out a part of Tsukune's "nature" that he is currently unable to control on his own, and after Tsukune has underwent the human modification ritual, I believe that Ikeda has to somehow reflect that the current Tsukune is different then the Tsukune from before the ritual has taken place, so in my opinion, it would be a little strange, if Tsukune had the same " controlled vampire form" that he had, before the ritual has taken place.
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Old 2011-11-11, 08:19   Link #21277
Shinso Tsukune
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I like the idea of Tsukune having the shapeshifting ability, that would be awesome to see and the theme of this ability would revolve around bat wings and such, but unlike Kahlua's, his would be to grow wings from his back to enable flight capabilities, but also able to shapeshift his arms into a weapon, Tsukune would be the one to ignore that "wealth over power" stuff
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Old 2011-11-11, 08:39   Link #21278
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I like the idea of Tsukune having the shapeshifting ability, that would be awesome to see and the theme of this ability would revolve around bat wings and such, but unlike Kahlua's, his would be to grow wings from his back to enable flight capabilities, but also able to shapeshift his arms into a weapon, Tsukune would be the one to ignore that "wealth over power" stuff
Well, I don't think that Tsukune needs to have his arms shapeshifted into weapons, since unlike Kahula, he can always execute medium to long range attacks, using youjutsu techniques, which has been proven to be quite effective in chapter 41 (the move Tsukune used to "punch" Tohou Fuhai to the ground, which was seen by everyone training in Tohou Fuhai's dimension.

Still, I believe that Tsukune's wings might have a secondary defensive role, if they are sturdy enough to withstand enemy attacks - you know Tsukune using one of his wings to block an enemy attack, and at the same time, he has both hands free so he can easily counterattack.

After all, I doubt that Tsukune can shapeshift something that hasn't been changed, in his "berserk form" and as we had seen the only new addition to Tsukune's form have been his wings, with the rest of his body remaining more or less "human".
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Old 2011-11-11, 10:19   Link #21279
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For all we know, Tsukune's black-ish skin layer in Berkserker-Mode could also be some kind of protection, unless it was simply a transitional byproduct of the ritual (since it kind of broke apart after Touhou stuck the final needle into Tsukune's chest). At least the bad@ss Youki-Blast should make a return; the one he did after he punshed Touhou in the ground.
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Old 2011-11-11, 11:02   Link #21280
Chris38
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For all we know, Tsukune's black-ish skin layer in Berkserker-Mode could also be some kind of protection, unless it was simply a transitional byproduct of the ritual (since it kind of broke apart after Touhou stuck the final needle into Tsukune's chest). At least the bad@ss Youki-Blast should make a return; the one he did after he punshed Touhou in the ground.
Well, we won't know for sure, until Tsukune's next "out of control" incident happens, but I doubt that it was purely a byproduct of the ritual, so it might give Tsukune some additional protection.

After all, the only thing the ritual did, is cause Tsukune's "berserk side" due to his body (since he was still vaguely aware of what he was doing in his "berserk form") being pushed to it's limits, and due to Tsukune undertaking the human modification ritual, the Shinso blood within him had a lot more resources to "modify" Tsukune's body, which resulted in his latest "berserk form".

Still, even if his black skin would be giving Tsukune some additional protection, and Tsukune finally gains complete control over his "berserk side" - which, is definitely going to occur sooner or later, I doubt that he would be transforming into that form, since he would be definitively uncomfortable looking like that.
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