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Old 2011-11-11, 03:03   Link #1461
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Anyway, are we just supposed to assume that the worlds of Dahlgryn and Shutra (and any planets that were part of their empires) are totally destroyed, and that's why their descendants all decided to live on Mid-Childa?
Not necessarily every descendant needed to have moved to Mid. If a royal had three kids and one of them moved to Mid, that would be enough to establish a whole line of descendants on Mid.

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2) Secrecy. Vivio is clone of Olivie = secret therefore existence will not be questioned no matter how exposed she is because of friendship + love + belief! combination. Actually works, since their world is a place where values are near ideal. Also there's authority from both TSAB and the Church to consider.
Except Vivio being a clone of Olivie isn't a secret. They're not even trying to keep it a secret, with all the church people calling her "your majesty" left and right.
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Old 2011-11-11, 11:29   Link #1462
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Anyway, are we just supposed to assume that the worlds of Dahlgryn and Shutra (and any planets that were part of their empires) are totally destroyed, and that's why their descendants all decided to live on Mid-Childa?

Remnants of Shutra and Belka settling on the same planet makes sense, since they were either part of the same empire or at least allied powers. But why Mid-Childa? In all likelihood, Mid-Childa would have been one of their enemies, right? Dahlgryn, too.

For that matter, if Ixpellia was recently dug up by a modern Orussian, how did she end up in an ancient Belkan ruin? Anient Belka was dead before Olivie took the throne, and one of the time's Ixpellia woke up was after Olivie died.

Actually, what was an ancient Belkan ruin doing on MID-CHILDA in the first place? Wouldn't it be an ancient MID-CHILDAN ruin?

Dammit, Mid-Childa isn't a planet! It's a heap of space-flotsam!

It's the Nanohaverse's Traverse Town, where survivors wash up when their planets die.
The way i understanded things is that Mid-Childa raised from the ashes of the Ancient Belkan Empire after it destroyed itself by the war, the remanants of the belkan nobility joined after the Unification war started by Olivie and raised the Saint Church in her name and, as a form of respect to their roots, Mid-Childa acknowledge the existence of the Belkan state at the north of the planet where the old costumes are still conserved and give the belkans who are not ready to left their culture and traditions a place to belong.

Right as Keroko said, it's not strange seeing noble belkan descendants living on Mid-Childa or frequently having busssiness in it. The Belkan state exist but is Mid-Childa the new central power of society so it's important to mantain connections with it in order to keep their status.

So, in the end, Mid-Childa is not an enemy because it appeared after the fall of Belka and most important it was contructed from the very ruins of it. That also explain the iron rules about armament and the regulations and efforts to achieve peace in the universe, they're trying to learn from their past mistakes as the Ancient Belkan Empire and not screw up things again ...of course, right now they have enormous difficults to achive said goal xDU.
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Old 2011-11-11, 17:14   Link #1463
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I got the distinct impression that Midchildan style was at least as old as Belkan style. Doesn't Chrono say in A's that they both split off from the same source?
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Old 2011-11-11, 17:21   Link #1464
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^ Maybe he was refering to Al-Hazard which is so old that it was considered "Ancient" even in the times of Ancient Belka.

Again, the way it's worded it sounds like Mid-Childa evolved from the Belkan empire, that's why Belkan Knights are rare compared with ortthodox Mid-style mages, at least by the time of A's/StrikerS according to what Sister Schach and Lady Carim mentions about the importance of preserving the Wolkenritter in one of the sound stages.
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Old 2011-11-11, 17:39   Link #1465
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The unofficial English translation of the movie manga claims that Yuuno found Raising Heart in a ruin. It is a very Midchildan Device, and very much not Belkan.

How accurate is that translation, because it would suggest that Midchilda is indeed old enough to have old ruins and old Devices.
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Old 2011-11-11, 18:04   Link #1466
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We know Mid-Childa has ruins on it; just look at Ixy's original resting place. As for the manga, it doesn't necessarily matter to the main 'verse--the movie manga itself is an alternate reality from the movie, which in itself is an alternate reality (or a movie, if you accept the Megami soundstages as canon) to the anime.

That said, movie manga discussion really should be taken to the general manga thread.
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Old 2011-11-11, 20:32   Link #1467
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We know Mid-Childa has ruins on it; just look at Ixy's original resting place.
But that by itself doesn't serve as evidence that Mid-Child style is as old as the others, or that Mid-Childa was a power to itself alongside the old empires.

Raising Heart's age, however, would.


Quote:
As for the manga, it doesn't necessarily matter to the main 'verse--the movie manga itself is an alternate reality from the movie, which in itself is an alternate reality (or a movie, if you accept the Megami soundstages as canon) to the anime.
The events of the movie and especially the movie-manga play out differently, but there's nothing in the original continuity to suggest that the backstories aren't exactly the same.

Working on the assumption that the movie is an in-universe movie pieced together from eye-witness testimonies, why wouldn't Raising Heart's origins be the same?

Therefore, if the translation is correct, Yuuno found a lost Mid-Child style Intelligent Device in a ruin that was old enough for an archaeologist to search through. Old enough that the Device wasn't considered the rightful property of the modern Mid-Childan military.
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Old 2011-11-11, 20:48   Link #1468
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Raising Heart's age, however, would.
Would it? All it would say is that the technology and magic style has been around for a while. It says nothing about Mid's political and military power during the Belkan wars.
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Old 2011-11-11, 21:01   Link #1469
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Which Belkan wars? The warring states period, or the reunification period?

If Mid-Childa really did rise from the ashes of Belka -- let's say Ancient Belka, after the planet died but before Olivie did -- then they would have been fighting the remaining Belkans and the Saint's Cradle for their independence.

That's old enough to leave ruins.

But if Mid-Childa rose after Olivie's death and the end of the reunification war, then would the ruin containing Raising Heart be old enough to count as an archaeologic site?

The SKR War ended (and the TSAB was founded) no less than 65 years ago, at the time of the first season. That's not nearly enough time for the military to lose interest in destroyed military outposts or lost military equipment.
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Old 2011-11-11, 21:20   Link #1470
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Fighting, yes. There's plenty of damage to show that there was fighting on Mid. It indicates nothing on how powerful or widespread they were though.

And yes, a ruin that's at least 300/150 years old counts as an archaeological site. Vietnam is filled with archaeological ruins, and many of them didn't become said archaeological ruins until they got bombed some fifty years ago.
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Old 2011-11-11, 21:31   Link #1471
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The Lu Rushe Tribe on the planet of Alsace practices Mid-Childan Style, judging by the guy from the A's manga and Caro. That's a good indication that the style was popular enough to go interstellar.

Also, are you saying that you think Mid-Childa is at least old enough to have fought in the Reunification War before Olivie?
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Old 2011-11-11, 22:03   Link #1472
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I'm saying that we have no idea. We know that the TSAB was founded 150 years ago, but what kind of government Mid Childa had before that? That's completely unknown territory.

On the bright side, this does give us full artistic freedom when it comes to doujins and fanfics.
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Old 2011-11-11, 22:09   Link #1473
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If the TSAB was founded 150 years ago, that raises interesting questions about why it took over 80 years to start a new calendar.

Rather, what event other than the founding of the TSAB spurred people to make a break from the past like that? It would have to be something significant.

Perhaps the TSAB successfully negotiated a peace between two planets that were poised to use overtechnology against each other and ignite another war? Thus proving the TSAB was viable, and a new future was possible?
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Old 2011-11-11, 22:15   Link #1474
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The TSAB was founded 150 years before StrikerS, 75 years after that -during the era of the three great admirals- Mid officially adopted the ban of mass weaponry and turned to magic as the cornerstone of their society. It was literally the dawn of a new era for Mid, so they started a new calendar to match.
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Old 2011-11-11, 22:17   Link #1475
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... shit. *goes to rework The Unsung War's premise*
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Old 2011-11-11, 23:12   Link #1476
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
The TSAB was founded 150 years before StrikerS, 75 years after that -during the era of the three great admirals- Mid officially adopted the ban of mass weaponry and turned to magic as the cornerstone of their society. It was literally the dawn of a new era for Mid, so they started a new calendar to match.
How much of this is drawn straight from canon, and how much is reasonable conjecture?

If pure technology rather than magic was the cornerstone of previous societies, why do we see so many medival castles and swords, and why were Knights mages armed with magical devices?

Or rather, perhaps magic used to be the cornerstone of Belka before they turned to the overtechnology they discovered in the ruins of Al Hazard? And the TSAB was merely returning to that way of life?
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Old 2011-11-12, 01:17   Link #1477
Akiyoshi
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Or rather, perhaps magic used to be the cornerstone of Belka before they turned to the overtechnology they discovered in the ruins of Al Hazard? And the TSAB was merely returning to that way of life?
An interesting question, as ViVid special chapter Extra showed, the Wolkenritter lived in an era far before the fall of Ancient Belkan and the Saint Reunification wars, they're treated like living historical relics by the Saint Church and Schach states that they're important because they're contain/represent historical data about the old traditions and fight-style meaning that there was Armed Magical Knights in Ancient Belka which is a direct contrast against what we've seen previously in Vivid about knights and soldiers armed with classic medival weaponry and clothes.
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Old 2011-11-12, 05:41   Link #1478
Keroko
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How much of this is drawn straight from canon, and how much is reasonable conjecture?
They say this exact thing in StrikerS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
If pure technology rather than magic was the cornerstone of previous societies, why do we see so many medival castles and swords, and why were Knights mages armed with magical devices?

Or rather, perhaps magic used to be the cornerstone of Belka before they turned to the overtechnology they discovered in the ruins of Al Hazard? And the TSAB was merely returning to that way of life?
They still looked medieval even when Olivie started the reunification wars, so it's more likely that Belka was a mixture of the two. Medieval appearance with a high technological level.

It's hardly impossible to build a medieval looking castle with all modern conveniences after all.
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Old 2011-11-12, 05:54   Link #1479
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About medieval, magic and tech co-existing, Gargoyles.

Cheers.
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Old 2011-11-14, 09:30   Link #1480
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Olivie started the reunification wars
That war lasted for about 800 years.

Olivie didn't start it -- she inherited it after every other imperial heir died.

Then she ended the war. Indeed, it was ending the war that made her a famous hero.


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It's hardly impossible to build a medieval looking castle with all modern conveniences after all.
No, it's not. But it doesn't strike me as very practical.

Likewise, with all of the craze about mass-based weapons, I have to wonder why we don't see a single lead-and-powder slug-throwing firearm amongst the dead. Not one pistol or rifle or machine gun.
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