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Old 2011-11-11, 17:12   Link #1981
jzmagic
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Shu can always go crawling back to his childhood friend, the one who has a crush on him at school
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Old 2011-11-11, 17:57   Link #1982
Jerseykid
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Our male lead is striking out! Get it together Shu!
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Old 2011-11-11, 17:59   Link #1983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
If that's true, all the students in the school have some serious psychological problems.

But anyway. It wasn't explicitly mentioned anywhere, and I don't buy into this theory.
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Originally Posted by blakstealth View Post
I'm pretty sure the Voids are reflections of the person's heart..or something like that. Inori mentioned it in ep3.
I watched CoalGuys sub and in that version @ 16;09 Inori says "The shape and function of a void reflects the fears and complexities of it's owners. It is the shape of their hearts, so to say."
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Old 2011-11-11, 18:02   Link #1984
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I really liked this episode. Not because of Inori, but because of Shu. He is such a spot on depiction of the socially passive-aggressive slightly misogynist nice guy that it's hard for me not to interpret it as a subtle shot at otakus. He builds his whole reality around a girl he's known for a few days, let's this false reality dictate his life choices and then is surprised that she freaks out when he asks her to run away with some guy she hardly knows? The jealousy towards Gai was the clincher. Shu is the picture of self pity, and takes umbrage that people naturally gravitate towards someone with charisma and self worth. For a minute I was afraid Ayase would throw him a pity bone but I hope that doesn't happen. It would be totally counterproductive.

For purposes of character development, the writers have the work cut out for them. This kid can't go anywhere but up from here.

We need a Tsugumi episode though. I can't stay satisfied with coveting the few seconds of Tsugumi at a time we've been getting so far. Less Inori, more Ayase and Tsugumi.
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Old 2011-11-11, 18:03   Link #1985
blakstealth
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I was close. :3
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Old 2011-11-11, 18:11   Link #1986
jzmagic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarfrost View Post
I really liked this episode. Not because of Inori, but because of Shu. He is such a spot on depiction of the socially passive-aggressive slightly misogynist nice guy that it's hard for me not to interpret it as a subtle shot at otakus. He builds his whole reality around a girl he's known for a few days, let's this false reality dictate his life choices and then is surprised that she freaks out when he asks her to run away with some guy she hardly knows? The jealousy towards Gai was the clincher. Shu is the picture of self pity, and takes umbrage that people naturally gravitate towards someone with charisma and self worth. For a minute I was afraid Ayase would throw him a pity bone but I hope that doesn't happen. It would be totally counterproductive.

For purposes of character development, the writers have the work cut out for them. This kid can't go anywhere but up from here.

We need a Tsugumi episode though. I can't stay satisfied with coveting the few seconds of Tsugumi we've been getting so far. Less Inori, more Ayase and Tsugumi.
Spot-on assessment. I can't stand him right now, and I'll be extremely put off if he doesn't start to man up soon.
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Old 2011-11-11, 18:48   Link #1987
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Originally Posted by hoarfrost View Post
He builds his whole reality around a girl he's known for a few days, let's this false reality dictate his life choices and then is surprised that she freaks out when he asks her to run away with some guy she hardly knows? .

A girl who said "I belong to you" and "stay with you forever" which is just not the same thing at all. And you're talking about a boy who is manipulated by eveyone, left ine the dark by everyone.

Just not the same thing at all.
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Old 2011-11-11, 18:55   Link #1988
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I wonder what he'd get if he pulled a void out of himself, maybe he'll get a pussy cat.

As for this ep, It's always possible Inori isn't completely honest in what she says to Shu.
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Old 2011-11-11, 18:56   Link #1989
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post

Actually, Shu's character archetype seems to be very popular among Japanese otaku.
Lol, in which reality ?
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Old 2011-11-11, 19:10   Link #1990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
A girl who said "I belong to you" and "stay with you forever" which is just not the same thing at all. And you're talking about a boy who is manipulated by eveyone, left ine the dark by everyone.

Just not the same thing at all.
You definitely have a point there, one which makes Shu's character and situation a somewhat sympathetic one for me, but I also think hoarfrost is on to something here.

I do like the idea that Shu is meant to be very representative of the modern otaku, warts and all. I've seen "Yuji Everyman" characters like Shu before, and they often improve very rapidly and/or become somewhat idealized representatives of the modern otaku.

Shu is more raw, real, unrefined. His weaknesses are not sugarcoated, made light of, or spun to somehow be positives.

I could see Shu being a subtle commentary on the modern otaku. I also have to have a certain respect for a work that can sublimely comment on its very own audience in an even-handed way.
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Old 2011-11-11, 19:26   Link #1991
hoarfrost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
A girl who said "I belong to you" and "stay with you forever" which is just not the same thing at all. And you're talking about a boy who is manipulated by eveyone, left ine the dark by everyone.

Just not the same thing at all.
No mater what she said to him, his expectations were unreasonable. If someone you've known for a few days says things like that to you, it should trigger some flags no matter how pleasant the thought may be. Shu believed it because he let his desperation and passivity get the best of him. Those are the things he'll have to contend with if he wants to change anything in his life.

Starting with that drug dealer and now this, he is going to learn one day not to just trust people off the bat. But it seems like he's simply making the same mistake with Ayase and FP. We the audience might not suspect her but from Shu's point of view, what has she done to demonstrate that she is any more trustworthy than Gai or Inori?

I think at about midseason Shu is going to do what Renton did when he got fed up with being led around by the nose and not taken seriously.
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Old 2011-11-11, 19:42   Link #1992
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
You definitely have a point there, one which makes Shu's character and situation a somewhat sympathetic one for me, but I also think hoarfrost is on to something here.

I do like the idea that Shu is meant to be very representative of the modern otaku, warts and all. I've seen "Yuji Everyman" characters like Shu before, and they often improve very rapidly and/or become somewhat idealized representatives of the modern otaku.

Shu is more raw, real, unrefined. His weaknesses are not sugarcoated, made light of, or spun to somehow be positives.

I could see Shu being a subtle commentary on the modern otaku. I also have to have a certain respect for a work that can sublimely comment on its very own audience in an even-handed way.

Ehh? That's quite a long shot don't you think ? They did ALL this just to spite the otakus ?

Well, I guess you've found out the real reason why this is being aired in noitaminA
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Old 2011-11-11, 19:55   Link #1993
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Ehh? That's quite a long shot don't you think ? They did ALL this just to spite the otakus ?
Well, there is some possible subtle subversion here.

At the end of Episode 2, Shu thought he just had a "cool adventure" or something along those lines, and that he could easily get back to his normal life.

Later on, Shu felt that this magically mysterious music idol Inori had fallen for him, and that once more he was living a dream.

In both cases, reality was not so pleasant.

I know this word gets through around a lot these days, but maybe Guilty Crown is aiming to deconstruct certain otaku fantasies.

If so, that could prove interesting.


If this is the case, I don't think the point is to make Shu look extremely bad or anything like that, but to show how a character like Shu would play out in a more realistic setting, instead of a more conveniently cooperative one. You could say that Shu is to Yuji Everyman what Kaname Madoka is to your typical magical girl lead.
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Old 2011-11-11, 20:01   Link #1994
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Okay here is my question: Are we still supposed to assume that Inori broke orders to rescue Shu on her own? Or did Gai just want it to appear that way since he knew Inori was Shu's weakness?
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Old 2011-11-11, 20:06   Link #1995
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, there is some possible subtle subversion here.

At the end of Episode 2, Shu thought he just had a "cool adventure" or something along those lines, and that he could easily get back to his normal life.

Later on, Shu felt that this magically mysterious music idol Inori had fallen for him, and that once more he was living a dream.

In both cases, reality was not so pleasant.

I know this word gets through around a lot these days, but maybe Guilty Crown is aiming to deconstruct certain otaku fantasies.

If so, that could prove interesting.


If this is the case, I don't think the point is to make Shu look extremely bad or anything like that, but to show how a character like Shu would play out in a more realistic setting, instead of a more conveniently cooperative one. You could say that Shu is to Yuji Everyman what Kaname Madoka is to your typical magical girl lead.

So basically the way to do that is to have unlikable protagonists, or in Madoka's case, one that only does something at the last episode ?

I mean, I get the whole trying to do things different, but why do we need this kind of character to portray that?

Madoka has it easy, she's a cute girl and thus it's easy for people to over look any short comings. But Shu is a guy, people have higher standards for them and aren't so forgiving when they screw up... Plus this season's line-up of excellent, reliable and entertaining male protagonists just makes his flaws even more obvious.
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Old 2011-11-11, 20:12   Link #1996
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Plus this season's line-up of excellent, reliable and entertaining male protagonists just makes his flaws even more obvious.
Considering how we've had so many competent males that are said by many to stand out by being "different from the average whiny useless male lead," Shu is actually somewhat refreshing as a whiny useless male lead. It's been quite a long time since we've had somebody comparable to Shinji.
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Old 2011-11-11, 20:14   Link #1997
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I know this word gets through around a lot these days, but maybe Guilty Crown is aiming to deconstruct certain otaku fantasies.
You could say that Shu is to Yuji Everyman what Kaname Madoka is to your typical magical girl lead
Did you watch the current season of Shana? I'm actually hoping Shu will turn out to be like Yuji Everyman in that, only not boring (seriously, Yuuji's current condition should be cool by default).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim
Okay here is my question: Are we still supposed to assume that Inori broke orders to rescue Shu on her own? Or did Gai just want it to appear that way since he knew Inori was Shu's weakness?
I'm going to assume the former, because it takes a lot of contrivance for the latter to be true. And quite frankly, I don't think even Guilty Crown would dare to put that much contrivance in its plot.

By the way, I have no idea how to embed a jwplayer video on these forums, so I can't post the preview. I can however, give you my impression of it.

Spoiler for preview for Episode 6:
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Old 2011-11-11, 20:17   Link #1998
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
Considering how we've had so many competent males that are said by many to stand out by being "different from the average whiny useless male lead," Shu is actually somewhat refreshing as a whiny useless male lead. It's been quite a long time since we've had somebody comparable to Shinji.
Yeah sure that's a positive way to look at it, but how long can the 'novelty' last? There's a reason why they eventually fell out of favor.
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Old 2011-11-11, 20:45   Link #1999
thundrakkon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Okay here is my question: Are we still supposed to assume that Inori broke orders to rescue Shu on her own? Or did Gai just want it to appear that way since he knew Inori was Shu's weakness?
At this point, we are supposed to be like Shu, unknown on what is actually the truth from her. Did she really do it on a whim, or was it another elaborate hoax by Gai?

What we the viewers know, however, is that Inori truly does have "some" feelings for Shu, although how much is yet to be determined. Her reply to Shu during his "let's runaway" scene seems like she was either ordered to respond to Shu in that way, or she felt too obligated to Gai to dare leave the Undertakers. Her concerned look during his test at the end does show that she at least cares for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Yeah sure that's a positive way to look at it, but how long can the 'novelty' last? There's a reason why they eventually fell out of favor.
I feel in a lot of ways that Guilty Crown is trying to do what Code Geass tried to do. Code Geass tried to reverse what the perfect image of a hero should be from Gundam Seed. It made Suzaku's idealism almost a joke when faced with reality and stupidity that it may bring.

In the same breath, Guilty Crown is trying to destroy the convention of what the "otaku" hero is supposed to be. It is showing that the hero that otaku's see in themselves are really dangerous for themselves, since there are more people out there that will manipulate and deceive them than not. I guess it is a sort of slap in the face to face reality.

Now, what I am looking forward to is how he will overcome all this. That will be the lesson learned.
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Old 2011-11-11, 21:10   Link #2000
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
I feel in a lot of ways that Guilty Crown is trying to do what Code Geass tried to do. Code Geass tried to reverse what the perfect image of a hero should be from Gundam Seed. It made Suzaku's idealism almost a joke when faced with reality and stupidity that it may bring.

In the same breath, Guilty Crown is trying to destroy the convention of what the "otaku" hero is supposed to be. It is showing that the hero that otaku's see in themselves are really dangerous for themselves, since there are more people out there that will manipulate and deceive them than not. I guess it is a sort of slap in the face to face reality.

Now, what I am looking forward to is how he will overcome all this. That will be the lesson learned.
That's fine and all, but do they really need such a weak-willed character to do all that?

I'm not asking for an ultimate badass hero, but I don't think it's necessary to have the second coming of Shinji after we've gone so long without one all these years.
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