Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 06 Discussion

[FlareKnight]

Will give Grodek some credit since he's taking care of a concern I've had since last episode about his plan. At least he's trying to beef up his forces before going into this. Although the problem remains about the lack of mobile suits to use against the UE. Guess Woolf is taking care of this problem himself though how the heck he can get a quality suit in 5 days before they ship out is beyond me. The people he went to might be talented, but there is a limit here.

Agree that Flit better not surrender there. Shouldn't be that tough to just walk right over these guys and get out of that mess.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Vargas brings the Gundam to him...somehow without Milles even knowing. I'm kind of starting to doubt her ability to function as an operator since her very job is to keep track of the Mobile Suits in action and yet she's completely failed to do so twice in one episode. That's not good, not good at all really.

After what happened last episode, I'm not surprised at all. I'm hoping there's a point to this continued showing of incompetence other than just to give the main characters enough freedom.

[felix]

Originally Posted by monster

After what happened last episode, I'm not surprised at all. I'm hoping there's a point to this continued showing of incompetence other than just to give the main characters enough freedom.

She's the operator of a colony not a warship. Just because she and others can do the job doesn't mean they're specialists at it. And I'm pretty sure it's not her duty to guard the mobile suits all the way from the control room while inside a military installation. That just seems silly. Think of it as the same as with airline operators, it's not their job to guard the damn planes in the hanger; they're only responsible when they take of, land or are flying in the sky.

In the case of this episode the professor took out the Gundam who as far as everyone is concerned belongs to him and Flint practically. Additionally, they all seem to be understaffed (looking at how nobody was on shift) and all this nonsense happened while on their break. There's very little incompetence involved when you consider the circumstances.

[monster]

Originally Posted by felix

She's the operator of a colony not a warship. Just because she and others can do the job doesn't mean they're specialists at it. And I'm pretty sure it's not her duty to guard the mobile suits all the way from the control room while inside a military installation. That just seems silly. Think of it as the same as with airline operators, it's not their job to guard the damn planes in the hanger; they're only responsible when they take of, land or are flying in the sky.

In the case of this episode the professor took out the Gundam who as far as everyone is concerned belongs to him and Flint practically. Additionally, they all seem to be understaffed (looking at how nobody was on shift) and all this nonsense happened while on their break. There's very little incompetence involved when you consider the circumstances.

I'm pretty sure that a colony would also require security in place. In comparison, securing a tiny warship should be easier, assuming they were competent in the first place.

And by the way, just because they may have an excuse for being incompetent, arguably, it doesn't mean they're not incompetent.

[felix]

Originally Posted by monster

I'm pretty sure that a colony would also require security in place. In comparison, securing a tiny warship should be easier, assuming they were competent in the first place.

You think SHE was running the entire colony? She was part of the main control staff, but there were other people there too.

Your logic is flawed anyway. You're basically saying that if say you're a pilot of a Boeing 747 you are a master at piloting a fighter jet, just because the other one was bigger. In this case it's even more extreme since she's more on the maintenance side rather then actually piloting. Maybe if Nora was some kind of military colony I would buy into the whole security argument but they basically went from a civilian cruiser to a frigate (or whatever that little ship is). Their military was pathetic at best and from the looks of it, part of it (namely the ship in question), didn't even answer directly to colony command (ie. her post).

If we're talking about breaking protocols shouldn't we be talking more about how the captain just left the ship with out leaving anyone in charge.

[monster]

Originally Posted by felix

You think SHE was running the entire colony? She was part of the main control staff, but there were other people there too.

Your logic is flawed anyway. You're basically saying that if say you're a pilot of a Boeing 747 you are a master at piloting a fighter jet, just because the other one was bigger. In this case it's even more extreme since she's more on the maintenance side rather then actually piloting. Maybe if Nora was some kind of military colony I would buy into the whole security argument but they basically went from a civilian cruiser to a frigate (or whatever that little ship is). Their military was pathetic at best and from the looks of it, part of it (namely the ship in question), didn't even answer directly to colony command (ie. her post).

Your example is flawed. I'm not talking about a technical job like piloting. I'm talking about the basics of teamwork and responsibility. The fact that the person effectively in charge of the ship has to complain that no one communicated to her that the ship's best weapon was deployed is not such a small thing that you can just excuse with simple ignorance or whatever.

It's called delegation of work and communication. No one person has to do every single job. But in the end, the captain and the other officials are responsible for the whole ship. At the very least, moving the Gundam outside the Diva should have been communicated to the bridge.

If we're talking about breaking protocols shouldn't we be talking more about how the captain just left the ship with out leaving anyone in charge.

That's if they even have the protocols. But I have no interest in putting blame on specific individuals. It's obvious this is a shipwide problem.

[felix]

Originally Posted by monster

Your example is flawed. I'm not talking about a technical job like piloting. I'm talking about the basics of teamwork and responsibility. The fact that the person effectively in charge of the ship has to complain that no one communicated to her that the ship's best weapon was deployed is not such a small thing that you can just excuse with simple ignorance or whatever.

It's called delegation of work and communication. No one person has to do every single job. But in the end, the captain and the other officials are responsible for the whole ship. At the very least, moving the Gundam outside the Diva should have been communicated to the bridge.

Piloting the things I gave as an example requires teamwork. It's just that they require different kinds. You make it sound like there's just one type of teamwork or that you can do it perfectly with out any previous experience or training. You can pick any field you want, if I stick those people on the battleship with out any prior experience I don't expect their collective confusion to be any more effective just because it's now under the teamwork-ubrella.

You have evidence to support the idea that they were actually trained to do this? It's miracoulas their posts on Nora are even compatible to those required to running a battlecruiser. Just because they're in the particular position doesn't just inject all the know-how (or expectations we might have of them) into their heads. It's like if I make you the CEO of some big company (by accident), are you suddenly expected to know every nuance of the position?

Does the Gundam even belong to them?

If the chief engeneer/researcher/whatever wants to take it out I don't see what gives them any right to actually stop him; particularly with the captain not even on board. Heck even the ship they're on doesn't belong to them. Do they even belong to the military? The world of AGE isn't exactly at war either, not with other humans anyway; as far as they're concerned. There was certainly no specific official-military initiative to drag the damn thing onto the ship back on Nora (even though it was for the purpose of combating the UE in the end).

[monster]

Originally Posted by felix

Piloting the things I gave as an example requires teamwork. It's just that they require different kinds. You make it sound like there's just one type of teamwork or that you can do it perfectly with out any previous experience or training. You can pick any field you want, if I stick those people on the battleship with out any prior experience I don't expect their collective confusion to be any more effective just because it's now under the teamwork-ubrella.

What kind of teamwork does not require communication?

You have evidence to support the idea that they were actually trained to do this? It's miracoulas their posts on Nora are even compatible to those required to running a battlecruiser. Just because they're in the particular position doesn't just inject all the know-how (or expectations we might have of them) into their heads. It's like if I make you the CEO of some big company (by accident), are you suddenly expected to know every nuance of the position?

Do you have evidence that none of them knows how to operate the ship? Even if the current bridge crew is not the official crew, that doesn't mean this is the case for the whole crew. Recall that Grodek only took out three or so people. Are you saying these three people are the only ones who know how to operate the ship?

And again, if they were competent, they don't need to be able to handle everything. But they should know important things like the whereabouts of the Gundam.

Does the Gundam even belong to them?

If the chief engeneer/researcher/whatever wants to take it out I don't see what gives them any right to actually stop him; particularly with the captain not even on board. Heck even the ship they're on doesn't belong to them. Do they even belong to the military? The world of AGE isn't exactly at war either, not with other humans anyway; as far as they're concerned. There was certainly no specific official-military initiative to drag the damn thing onto the ship back on Nora (even though it was for the purpose of combating the UE in the end).

Does any of that even matter? From the moment the Gundam entered the Diva, it falls under the authority of the people in charge of the ship. It doesn't even matter if the people in charge of the ship are not supposed to, they effectively are. Also, I think Grodek made it clear that they are fighting the UE, and the Gundam is a military weapon.

[felix]

Originally Posted by monster

What kind of teamwork does not require communication?

Since when is the profesor part of the team? He only talks to Flint.

Originally Posted by monster

And again, if they were competent, they don't need to be able to handle everything. But they should know important things like the whereabouts of the Gundam.

Again it's not their job to KNOW the whereabouts of the gundam. What bolts are being changed. Who is currently eyeballing it, etc. They're not the ships police force.

Originally Posted by monster

Does any of that even matter? From the moment the Gundam entered the Diva, it falls under the authority of the people in charge of the ship. It doesn't even matter if the people in charge of the ship are not supposed to, they effectively are. Also, I think Grodek made it clear that they are fighting the UE, and the Gundam is a military weapon.

Grodek's authority isn't exactly legitimate at this point. He was also part of Nora so when he's saying the Gundam is a weapon to fight the UE it's ambigous if he's speaking from the opinion of the military or the opinion of one of Nora's chief officers. Particularly when the only people he's saying it to is Nora's former officers. Since the military didn't seem to want to take away the Gundam, the so called "super weapon", it's safe to say Grodek isn't exactly speaking the thoughts of the military.

Speaking of which are they even in contact with the military? You'd think they would have heard about Grodek not being captain if that was the case.

Originally Posted by monster

Are you saying these three people are the only ones who know how to operate the ship?

Aside from some clueless maintanence people assisting the professor (which are probably from Nora) they sure seem like the only ones actually controlling the ship. As silly as it may be. Well I suppose having more crew members isn't exactly an advantage, just more mouths to feed.

Originally Posted by monster

It doesn't even matter if the people in charge of the ship are not supposed to, they effectively are.

Oh yes it does! If they're not suppose to be there, everything is a lot more lax and priorities are elsewhere like when are they going to get off the ship. Their understanding of what goes where is also a lot more blurry. They're not even the kind of people to just strip search everyone leaving the ship or have them require permission. If this was a serious crew Flint and others couldn't just board and unboard the ship as they please, and take the keys for the weapon with them on their walks no less.

[monster]

Originally Posted by felix

Since when is the profesor part of the team? He only talks to Flint.

Again it's not their job to KNOW the whereabouts of the gundam. What bolts are being changed. Who is currently eyeballing it, etc. They're not the ships police force.

Are you seriously saying that knowing the whereabouts of the Gundam is as important as knowing which bolts are changed for the bridge crew?

Grodek's authority isn't exactly legitimate at this point. He was also part of Nora so when he's saying the Gundam is a weapon to fight the UE it's ambigous if he's speaking from the opinion of the military or the opinion of one of Nora's chief officers. Particularly when the only people he's saying it to is Nora's former officers. Since the military didn't seem to want to take away the Gundam, the so called "super weapon", it's safe to say Grodek isn't exactly speaking the thoughts of the military.

It doesn't matter. No one other than Emily and Dique knows that Grodek has no legitimate authority over the Diva.

Speaking of which are they even in contact with the military? You'd think they would have heard about Grodek not being captain if that was the case.

Didn't you watch last week's episode? Grodek blackmailed the Federation official. So yes, most of the Diva's crew don't know.

Oh yes it does! If they're not suppose to be there, everything is a lot more lax and priorities are elsewhere like when are they going to get off the ship. Their understanding of what goes where is also a lot more blurry. They're not even the kind of people to just strip search everyone leaving the ship or have them require permission. If this was a serious crew they Flint and others couldn't just board and unboard the ship as they please, and take the keys for the weapon with them on their walks no less.

Hence why I called them incompetent. I'm glad we're finally on the same page.

[felix]

Originally Posted by monster

Are you seriously saying that knowing the whereabouts of the Gundam is as important as knowing which bolts are changed for the bridge crew?

Yes. It's not their responsibility to watch it, as I keep emphasizing they are not guards; though as high ranking officers it does fall under their responsibility to keep it on the ship or at least know if it's not on the ship anymore. However given the number of capable hands on boards it's not at all surprising they severely lack the manpower to actually manage the ship properly. Is this incompetenece on their part? Maybe, but I'd say they're doing pretty good under the circumstances.

Kind of makes you think what the hell Grodek's planing by getting another 2 ships (if I remember that scene correctly). I wouldn't be surprised if blonde Popey is going to join the crew along with his daughter and a bunch of other rufians. That or they could just recruit some Nora refugees; there should be plenty willing.

Has any gundam series to date focused on a miniature space fleed commanded by the protagonists? as opposed to the one-ship-army theme of recent gundam series.

Originally Posted by monster

It doesn't matter. No one other than Emily and Dique knows that Grodek has no legitimate authority over the Diva.

More like just Emily, Dique is too stupid to know what's going on. I wouldn't put it past him to just spill the beans at some point.

[monster]

Originally Posted by felix

Yes. It's not their responsibility to watch it, as I keep emphasizing they are not guards; though as high ranking officers it does fall under their responsibility to keep it on the ship or at least know if it's not on the ship anymore. However given the number of capable hands on boards it's not at all surprising the lack the manpower to actually manage the ship properly.

I'm not saying it is their job to manually watch over the Gundam. However, it should be expected that when someone wants to enter or leave the ship, that they would be notified. Especially when that someone brings the Gundam with them.

Has any gundam series to date focused on a miniature space fleed commanded by the protagonists? as opposed to the one-ship-army theme of recent gundam series.

The Three Ship Alliance of SEED would possibly be the closest thing to that.

[felix]

Originally Posted by monster

I'm not saying it is their job to manually watch over the Gundam. However, it should be expected that when someone wants to enter or leave the ship, that they would be notified. Especially when that someone brings the Gundam with them.

Aparently the ships sensors don't beep when that someone is in a hugeass truck. This smells like UN-GO's horse-law nonsense.

Originally Posted by monster

The Three Ship Alliance of SEED would possibly be the closest thing to that.

I'm assuming this happened in Destiny since I don't remember it in SEED.

[monster]

Originally Posted by felix

Aparently the ships sensors don't beep when that someone is in a hugeass truck. This smells like UN-GO's horse-law nonsense.

Well, someone has to open the door.

I'm assuming this happened in Destiny since I don't remember it in SEED.

There's more focus in SEED (the last space arc) but it's more of a (bigger) fleet in Destiny.

So it's not exactly what you're talking about, but it's the closest to it.

[felix]

Originally Posted by monster

Well, someone has to open the door.

You sure the door was closed to begin with?

Originally Posted by monster

There's more focus in SEED (the last space arc) but it's more of a (bigger) fleet in Destiny.

So it's not exactly what you're talking about, but it's the closest to it.

Oh I know now what you're referring to now. The Archangel-Eternal-Kusanagi allience or whatever right?

Yeah never really saw that as an actual fleet, but I guess it is sort-of.

Speaking of ship names, do we have one for this one?

[monster]

Originally Posted by felix

You sure the door was closed to begin with?

Hmmm, you got a point there.

Originally Posted by felix

Speaking of ship names, do we have one for this one?

Which ship?

Originally Posted by larethian

no wait, 3 ship alliance happened in Destiny? it was in SEED when it was formed: Eternal + Archangel + Kusanagi.

in Destiny, it was just Orb + remnants of Clyne faction + Yzak's forces vs Plant (Zaft)

All the ships in TSA are in the fleet at the end of Destiny.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by felix

I'm assuming this happened in Destiny since I don't remember it in SEED.

no wait, 3 ship alliance happened in Destiny? it was in SEED when it was formed: Eternal + Archangel + Kusanagi.

in Destiny, it was just Orb + remnants of Clyne faction + Yzak's forces vs Plant (Zaft)

[felix]

Yeah remembered it in the previous post. Thanks anyway @larenthian

Originally Posted by monster

Which ship?

The failboat in AGE we've been discussing.

[monster]

Originally Posted by felix

The failboat in AGE we've been discussing.

Oh, it's called the Diva.

[felix]

Originally Posted by monster

Oh, it's called the Diva.

OH right... why do I keep forgetting.