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Old 2011-11-03, 12:31   Link #3141
Kallen4life
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But Avalon itself can perhaps be destroyed, that I cannot be certain.
yes, at best Avalon is destroyed, but the user is still untouched .. of course it can't be used anymore then


still, it was made by fairies and they apparently live in some hippy dimension (i.e. not Earth) and thus no concept of death for MeoDP


don't know for sure, but I'd say Tsukihime's Shiki definitely can't touch Avalon, Ryougi maybe
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Old 2011-11-04, 06:24   Link #3142
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Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post


in that case my original question stands

Towards the end of the fate route in the game - how exactly did the confontation on the date between Shirou/Saber & Gil go ? In the anime they used Avalon to reflect Ea back at Gil, he was kinda roasted and made a tactical retreat .. but afaik, that's not how Avalon really works - it protects the user by transporting him/her to magical promised utopia fairy land of happiness and bunnies and NOTHING can interfere, but it doesn't reflect anything .. so what happened in the game ? Gil ran w/o getting damaged ? They used Caliburn/Excaliblast ? Saber slashed him ? He broke a nail ?
Here is the image of the game

Spoiler:


So from that I'm assuming Avalon did reflect the attack back to Gilg... I could be wrong though....
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Old 2011-11-04, 06:30   Link #3143
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hmm, might be just AoE damage or lashback or something


ok then I guess, question answered, ty
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Old 2011-11-04, 08:48   Link #3144
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If you have VN specific questions, you may get better answers at the VN thread.
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Old 2011-11-07, 20:45   Link #3145
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Just a generic question, is there any chance Heaven's Feel is ever going to be animated?
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Old 2011-11-07, 20:54   Link #3146
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Of course there's a chance. There just hasn't been any announcement. It took 4-6 years between Fate's airing and UBW's movie, so just give it time. The success of Fate/Zero will likely play a role in how quickly it gets greenlit.
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Old 2011-11-07, 21:59   Link #3147
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There's probably a relatively decent chance of it being animated sometime in the future.

But a chance of it being animated well? Yeah... not happening unless ufotable manage to snatch the rights for the F/SN VN from DEEN.
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Old 2011-11-07, 23:17   Link #3148
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Does anyone here consider Fate route to be a shonen?
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Old 2011-11-08, 00:50   Link #3149
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
Does anyone here consider Fate route to be a shonen?
Shounen is not a genre, it's a demographic. F/SN is more aimed at the seinen demographic. Also wasn't this already asked and answered? I swear I saw this in this thread already.

Edit: Yeah you asked the same thing and it was already answered a few days ago.
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Old 2011-11-08, 05:50   Link #3150
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It's kind of question about Japan more than anything, but it relates to Fate Zero:

How much knowledge about the Illiad is an average Japanese high schooler/college student going to have in the first place? Do they go over that story in their schools?
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Old 2011-11-10, 09:02   Link #3151
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
There's probably a relatively decent chance of it being animated sometime in the future.

But a chance of it being animated well? Yeah... not happening unless ufotable manage to snatch the rights for the F/SN VN from DEEN.
I believe F/SN and UBW were pretty well done, or did some other studio purchase the rights to it?
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Old 2011-11-10, 09:40   Link #3152
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
There's probably a relatively decent chance of it being animated sometime in the future.

But a chance of it being animated well? Yeah... not happening unless ufotable manage to snatch the rights for the F/SN VN from DEEN.
Yeah, the problem is that Deen has the rights. Make me wonder if it's better if they never do it at all.
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Old 2011-11-14, 08:39   Link #3153
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I agree that Deen's adaptation pretty much suck. I feel like FSN would only shine in full glory if they have Kinoko Nasu incorporate all three routes into one and then adapt that. I guess they would have the best bet if they adapt the FSN manga right now which is pretty well done as far as I can tell (follows mostly Fate route, but with UBW and HF major plot points integrated in so far....).

Anyway I asked this question in the Fate/zero episode 7 thread but this place is a lot more suitable.

1) Does FSN Archer actually remember Saber? If he does then wouldn't it be obvious that he remembers that his younger self eventually bests his older self? In a way he already know what's going to happen then why bother plotting the whole kill himself act?
2) I understand that the summoned servants are actually just replicas of whatever is stored in the Holy Grail. That the true spirit is never summoned, so when they die it doens't affect the real thing. So with this said, Saber is the only exception to this rule because she signed the contract BEFORE she died? How do you even sign the contract you just talk to the world?
3) I understand that FSN and Tsukihime are actually part of the Nasuverse, so how old is Shiki right now in FSN? Do they happen parallel to each other? Is KNK also part of this verse?
4) I understand that Servants drain prana from their Masters through a "link". This process is apparently automatic, but they can manually get more from consuming souls? But apparently they can also transfer magic through sex (same as Tsukihime)....so really....who on earth would prefer sucking souls over sex? I mean it would make sense if you summoned someone that is not your sexual interest at all, but I don't think that applies for Caster or Rider in FSN (which is what they did). Even if souls would replenish mana more than sex, sex seems to be a viable route since it replenished Saber plenty even though Shiroh is an incompetent master (doesn't he have very little mana to begin with?).
5) I am also very confused about Illya being the holy grail. The UBW movie doesn't help at all. I know Einzburns are the ones who made the Holy Grail....so they hid it in her? Then why is she even in the war as a Master? What?
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Old 2011-11-14, 12:00   Link #3154
ProfileOF
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Originally Posted by jonli View Post
I agree that Deen's adaptation pretty much suck. I feel like FSN would only shine in full glory if they have Kinoko Nasu incorporate all three routes into one and then adapt that. I guess they would have the best bet if they adapt the FSN manga right now which is pretty well done as far as I can tell (follows mostly Fate route, but with UBW and HF major plot points integrated in so far....).

Anyway I asked this question in the Fate/zero episode 7 thread but this place is a lot more suitable.

1) Does FSN Archer actually remember Saber? If he does then wouldn't it be obvious that he remembers that his younger self eventually bests his older self? In a way he already know what's going to happen then why bother plotting the whole kill himself act?
2) I understand that the summoned servants are actually just replicas of whatever is stored in the Holy Grail. That the true spirit is never summoned, so when they die it doens't affect the real thing. So with this said, Saber is the only exception to this rule because she signed the contract BEFORE she died? How do you even sign the contract you just talk to the world?
3) I understand that FSN and Tsukihime are actually part of the Nasuverse, so how old is Shiki right now in FSN? Do they happen parallel to each other? Is KNK also part of this verse?
4) I understand that Servants drain prana from their Masters through a "link". This process is apparently automatic, but they can manually get more from consuming souls? But apparently they can also transfer magic through sex (same as Tsukihime)....so really....who on earth would prefer sucking souls over sex? I mean it would make sense if you summoned someone that is not your sexual interest at all, but I don't think that applies for Caster or Rider in FSN (which is what they did). Even if souls would replenish mana more than sex, sex seems to be a viable route since it replenished Saber plenty even though Shiroh is an incompetent master (doesn't he have very little mana to begin with?).
5) I am also very confused about Illya being the holy grail. The UBW movie doesn't help at all. I know Einzburns are the ones who made the Holy Grail....so they hid it in her? Then why is she even in the war as a Master? What?
1) and 2)
Spoiler:

3) Not parallel, there is a time line. Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai are generally at the same time. "FSN happens right after Tsukihime" by Kinoko so FSN should be around 2000. However there is a big mistake because the Forth War should be in Bill Clinton's tour of duty (1993-2001). My favorate explanation is Forth War in 1993 and FSN 10 years later, 2003.

4) That's a complicated question. Since FSN is a galgame there have to be a reason to put sex into it, so they just states that mana can be transferred through sex... Actually I really prefer the option to filter sex scene, the migration of magic circuit seems much more reasonable than sex.

5)
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-11-14, 13:18   Link #3155
jonli
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Thanks Profile OF,

Follow up questions to clear things up a bit more.
@1) So essentially FSN Archer doesn't remember that his younger version beats him until the last moments?
@2) If so, then not even Archer remembers what happens in the Fifth war? He's never going to remember that he became content about his own self.

4) I see, I always thought the idea of mana transfer through sex was pretty fitting, and would probably work if the incentives of the characters were ironed out a little bit more.

5) So if everyone is trying to win the war and get the lesser grail to get to the great grail, am I correct? If that's the case why would Einsburn even bother to go to the war when they already have the "key"? Can't they just...you know...go to the temple?

6)
Spoiler for fsn ending:
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Old 2011-11-14, 13:24   Link #3156
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli View Post

Follow up questions to clear things up a bit more.
@1) So essentially FSN Archer doesn't remember that his younger version beats him until the last moments?
@2) If so, then not even Archer remembers what happens in the Fifth war? He's never going to remember that he became content about his own self.
It's said i nthe Visual Novel that he doesn't remember much of the 5th Holy Grail War so yes it's likely he never remembered that Shirou became content with himself. But it's more than possible that Archer comes from an alternate timelime where he never fought his future self (e.g, the Fate Route). In which case he couldn't possibly remember because it never happened for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli View Post
5) So if everyone is trying to win the war and get the lesser grail to get to the great grail, am I correct? If that's the case why would Einsburn even bother to go to the war when they already have the "key"? Can't they just...you know...go to the temple?
The Heroic Spirits that are summoned and that are killed in the war go into the Lesser Grail to make it. They are actually what makes the Holy Grail in the end. So the Heroic spirits need to be summoned and masters need to be chosen to summon those spirits. But it isn't the Einsbergs that choose the masters. The Great Holy Grail in the temple is what chooses the masters and initiates the war, whether the Einsbergs want it to or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli View Post
6)
Spoiler for fsn ending:
It's best not to take those stories seriously. In any case the ending of the FSN anime isn't the only ending. In the Visual Novel there are 5 alternate endings. In an alternate ending to the UBW route, Saber does actually remain with Shirou as Rin's servant.
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Last edited by Haak; 2011-11-14 at 13:36.
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Old 2011-11-14, 14:12   Link #3157
jonli
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post


The Heroic Spirits that are summoned and that are killed in the war go into the Lesser Grail to make it. They are actually what makes the Holy Grail in the end. So the Heroic spirits need to be summoned and masters need to be chosen to summon those spirits. But it isn't the Einsbergs that choose the masters. The Great Holy Grail in the temple is what chooses the masters and initiates the war, whether the Einsbergs want it to or not.
Wait now I'm even a bit more confused. Since the heroic spirits that are summoned are just replicas. So the replicas are the ones that create the grail in the end, but then it's been stated that Saber is the one the actual original. So if she gets KOed early in the war her ORIGINAL spirit would turn into grail material? Waste much? Basically if I was the Holy Grail i'd always make sure the world would only make contracts with dead heroes and not life ones. Was making Saber special just an excuse for Nasu to have Saber go back to her timeline for a tragic end? Since it seems like even if the grail is gone, as long as the master has enough mana the servants can still be sustained in the real world.

Quote:
It's best not to take those stories seriously. In any case the ending of the FSN anime isn't the only ending. In the Visual Novel there are 5 alternate endings. In an alternate ending to the UBW route, Saber does actually remain with Shirou as Rin's servant.
Is she romantically involved with Shirou in that ending or is he with Rin and Saber is like...their maid ? I hope that's not the only ending with Saber x Shirou....that's very freaking sad.

Oh and how old is Saber really? Since...Shirou is like 17 right? Just wondering if this is an imouto relationship or an one-san relationship.
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Last edited by jonli; 2011-11-14 at 14:22.
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Old 2011-11-14, 14:12   Link #3158
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Yeah, the problem is that Deen has the rights. Make me wonder if it's better if they never do it at all.
Does Deen actually own the media rights to fsn? I always though animation companies were here hired guns but not actual owners of the material.
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Old 2011-11-14, 14:22   Link #3159
ProfileOF
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About Ataraxia and the Great Grail:
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-11-14, 14:29   Link #3160
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Originally Posted by jonli View Post
1) Does FSN Archer actually remember Saber? If he does then wouldn't it be obvious that he remembers that his younger self eventually bests his older self? In a way he already know what's going to happen then why bother plotting the whole kill himself act?
archer comes from a different timeline. In his HGW, servant archer was someone else altogether. So no, he doesn't know how the war will progress, although he does know the identities or every other servant, he knows of Gil and he knows of Dark Sakura and Zolgen. And as i already answered in the other thread, archer knows that killing shirou won't erase him, but he's just that desperate

And he does remember saber, he's just playing dumb. He actually got his memory back right away...

Quote:
2) I understand that the summoned servants are actually just replicas of whatever is stored in the Holy Grail. That the true spirit is never summoned, so when they die it doens't affect the real thing. So with this said, Saber is the only exception to this rule because she signed the contract BEFORE she died? How do you even sign the contract you just talk to the world?
Heroic spirits generally don't sign contracts with the world. They just get shifted to the throne after their death becomes they were so awesome in life. Saber is the only heroic spirit who made a contract with the world to obtain the grail, so she is techincally still alive. Though the servant saber is just a copy of the original, just like every other servant, so whatever happens to it doesn't affect the real one(at least not physically, though after the fate route the real saber dies after forfeiting her wish due to what happened in the HGW)

we have no idea how the contract with the world is made. Archer is different from the others because he's not a heroic spirit, but a counter guardian, one who obtained the power after making a contract with the world

Quote:
3) I understand that FSN and Tsukihime are actually part of the Nasuverse, so how old is Shiki right now in FSN? Do they happen parallel to each other? Is KNK also part of this verse?
F/SN starts at the end of Tsukihime, same reality. KnK happens in a different reality.

Quote:
4) I understand that Servants drain prana from their Masters through a "link". This process is apparently automatic, but they can manually get more from consuming souls? But apparently they can also transfer magic through sex (same as Tsukihime)....so really....who on earth would prefer sucking souls over sex? I mean it would make sense if you summoned someone that is not your sexual interest at all, but I don't think that applies for Caster or Rider in FSN (which is what they did). Even if souls would replenish mana more than sex, sex seems to be a viable route since it replenished Saber plenty even though Shiroh is an incompetent master (doesn't he have very little mana to begin with?).
uhm, what? out of the various servants in F/SN we have Lancer and Gilgamesh who have a guy as their master(and anyways, Gil would prefer souls over sex with a mongrel, lancer wouldn't mind sex if his master was a woman)

Caster doesn't get any mana from sex because Kuzuki is not a magus, and Rider HATES shinji, and would NEVER EVER consider taking any more prana from sakura due to sakura's situation.

Archer hasRin as master, Berserker has Ilya, Kojirou Caster and Assassin has Zolgen...



Quote:
5) I am also very confused about Illya being the holy grail. The UBW movie doesn't help at all. I know Einzburns are the ones who made the Holy Grail....so they hid it in her? Then why is she even in the war as a Master? What?
Ilya is the vessel of the holy grail, basically, she was created with the purpose of becoming the holy grail(hence why she's doomed to die anyways shortly after the fate route ends). She makes for a perfect master, and Lysritt and Sella are there specifically to take over once she loses human functions(Leysritt is actually the dress of heaven, too)
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